What is the Deep State?

[Matt Allison]

This Thursday night! Prime-time! Must see TV, everyone

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

This Thursday night! Prime-time! Must see TV, everyone

I thought it interesting this is not news in the msm.  Though maybe not surprising.  I went looking for info and found this, though none of it featured on msn.

January 6 committee hearing schedule, how to watch and what to watch for - The Washington Post

How to watch the Jan 6 committee hearings: Primetime hearings start this week (abc27.com)

Jan. 6 hearings hit primetime TV this week : NPR

 

[Matt Allison]

Howdy Ron- no worries at, as it will be on every network: ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, etc.

Well, except Fox.

Fox "News" refuses to show it.

Because they're fake news. And because they're owned by an Australian fascist who is trying to destroy the United States and its democracy.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

Howdy Ron- no worries at, as it will be on every network: ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, etc.

Well, except Fox.

Fox "News" refuses to show it.

Because they're fake news. And because they're owned by an Australian fascist who is trying to destroy the United States and its democracy.

Great political theater. 

"Scoop: Jan. 6 committee's secret adviser

The House's Jan. 6 committee has turned to a renowned former network news executive to hone a mountain of explosive material into a captivating multimedia presentation for a prime-time hearing Thursday.

James Goldston — former president of ABC News, and a master documentary storyteller who ran "Good Morning America" and "Nightline" — has joined the committee as an unannounced adviser, Axios has learned.

Why it matters: I'm told Goldston is busily producing Thursday's 8 p.m. ET hearing as if it were a blockbuster investigative special.

He plans to make it raw enough so that skeptical journalists will find the material fresh, and chew over the disclosures in future coverage.

And he wants it to draw the eyeballs of Americans who haven't followed the ins and outs of the Capitol riot probe."

---30---

Well, let's what they come up with.

Remember, there is no defense counsel, cross-examination, or introduction of exculpatory evidence in a committee investigation.  

In this case, we are literally getting a state-financed TV special. 

Maybe this will be effective, maybe not.

I am surprised the Donks are not playing up the abortion issue more. My take is the 'Phants erred badly in letting that issue come up again, and could have gotten hurt badly on it. 

The 1/6 stuff...I think the public, red or blue blinders affixed, has made up their minds already, probably for partisan reasons. 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I see this a lot on here, a proclamation that one party is more virtuous than the other, based on the values of compassion. The trouble is a hierarchy uses such values and these progressives as a recruitment tool. Just having Bernie and co about is absolutely necessary for elections and the balance that is set. Without them and the hope that they generate, you face people walking away from the system that this hierarchy wants you to buy into. Compassion is one of the strongest emotions, it appeals to many and a government can get just about anything done as long as it’s dressed up as that. It's just a charade if your progressives are forever bridesmaids and never the bride, because delegates and the higher-ups choose an HRC instead of a Bernie. It suits an agenda is what I am saying, ie hope and promises that things can be better. The two parties are counterpoints, one can’t exist and get away with what they do without the existence of the other. The same as CNN and co can’t exist without their counterpoint, Fox. 

 

These are the carrot on a stick dangled. Everybody wants a better standard of living and a better future for their kids. 
 

Even in JFK’s time there were people in his government, democrats who were hamstringing progress and equality. Who were they serving? According to Quigley they were running the CFR and British equivalent. Prouty describes the exact same modus operandi / infiltration within the US military. We can see it, we understand how it works but, yet we still revert back to two party rivalry. How many times does a trick need to play out before a people realise that its a fix? I know all of the reasons why people won’t accept that, they’re all rooted in psychology and the vulnerabilities of the human mind. 
 

Lets put this another way; if the deep state or whatever we want to call them operates exactly how I am suggesting, ie a theatre is taking place instead of democracy, the world would look identical to the way it looks now. The only difference would be that if we believed what I am saying; then probability would make sense. Instead we believe in incredibly long odds, coincidences, happenstance etc. 
This is exactly the way kings and queens ran their nations in Europe, and the empires of old, they provided theatre, distraction and played on the emotions of the tribe to accomplish their goals. 
 

There is a hint of frustration in me explaining this; because I have a whole circle of close friends who know this to be the case, that we’re being played. IMHO it just gets more obvious. There are no new tricks being played, just slightly different versions of the old. 

Chris:

From afar, as I read US media, it really seems set in stone: Donks-libs believe their news sources, and 'Phants-cons believe theirs. 

What is disappointing to me is that on this very forum, in which we could hope for a great  deal of skepticism regarding Deep State manipulation of the news, and distrust of both coopted political parties---instead we get the red- blue- kool-aid pissing contests. 

Some people here believe FBI Director Robert Mueller covered up the truth about the 9/11 attack, an accessory after the fact to the murder of 3,000 Americans. Then Mueller testified to WMD in Iraq, adding his name and the FBI banner to the cause of perma-wars in the Mideast. 

Can you sink lower than that? 

But when Mueller was tabbed to run the Russiagate investigation---he becomes honorable.

Same deal on Liz Cheney.  A "profile in courage!" 

You see, the problem is not a Deep State that runs an imperialistic global guard service for multinationals, and a panopticon state domestically, and will be here after we are all dead. 

The problem is Trump. 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Chris:

From afar, as I read US media, it really seems set in stone: Donks-libs believe their news sources, and 'Phants-cons believe theirs. 

What is disappointing to me is that on this very forum, in which we could hope for a great  deal of skepticism regarding Deep State manipulation of the news, and distrust of both coopted political parties---instead we get the red- blue- kool-aid pissing contests. 

Some people here believe FBI Director Robert Mueller covered up the truth about the 9/11 attack, an accessory after the fact to the murder of 3,000 Americans. Then Mueller testified to WMD in Iraq, adding his name and the FBI banner to the cause of perma-wars in the Mideast. 

Can you sink lower than that? 

But when Mueller was tabbed to run the Russiagate investigation---he becomes honorable.

Same deal on Liz Cheney.  A "profile in courage!" 

You see, the problem is not a Deep State that runs an imperialistic global guard service for multinationals, and a panopticon state domestically, and will be here after we are all dead. 

The problem is Trump. 

 

I am noticing this phenomena that when anyone mentioned the T word that's not a scathing criticism, certain people are triggered, they simply have to reply no matter if they respect the person who is saying it or whether they think the person is an idiot. Rationally thinking, what is the motivation? It's that the emotional thinking part of the brain has been triggered, which is linked to fear. What transpires is a fight or flight response. Judging by the reaction you would think Trump's tenure had caused the deaths that Hitler, Stalin, or Pol Pot had but, it just isn't the case. The reaction is entirely disproportionate. The trouble is; the fear is provided constantly by MSM, which puts the individual in his emotional brain and keeps them in a heightened state of fear/neuroticism. Which why we see a very rational educated individual, who makes strong compelling arguments on some topics, suddenly let emotion skew their view, because party is involved. Desmet, Meerloo, Dostoevsky and others have all described this fear psychosis. I have two friends who both reacted disproportionately to the idea of a monkey pox pandemic and further lockdowns. I analysed and they both had something common in the ancestry, ie grandfathers that had been put in camps either in WW2 or post WW2 at the hands of communists (they eventually escaped). There is a fear in them wired deep in their minds which relates to their relatives and harrowing experiences. I think in many American's, this same fear has been instilled in the minds of many and it's triggered by propaganda and MSM. 

@Paul Brancato This post isn't about you, I am thinking mostly about a couple of others who post here. I do think there are moments when compassion (a very human trait, part of your good character) can pull you into the red/blue skirmish, when you know in your logical part of the brain (neo-cortex) that you see a bigger picture and how human beings can be played. We all have ego/pride and believe that our minds are invulnerable to outside influences shaping our thoughts but, the truth is; the state has dedicated millions to understanding the human mind and how to coerce, manipulate and shape the thoughts of the masses. They picked up where religion left off. I am 100% certain if we had this conversation in person that you'd be entirely convinced that this is going on. 

Joost Meerloo's "Rape of the mind" is a most excellent book which touches on this vulnerabilities and how people are manipulated. 

[Paul Brancato]

14 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

No quote - I see clearly that we are being played, diverted and stymied. Both parties likewise use their constituencies as recruitment tools. Very few of the changes I’ve always wanted from Congress have come to pass. Since I am partisan I hold progressive ideas, and some progressive legislators in high regard. They are used to recruit people like me, and I’m certain they are aware of that and wish they could enact structural changes such as the ones I’ve mentioned. It’s not their fault that financial elites use them and tolerate their presence while making sure they remain powerless by limiting their numbers. Btw I don’t see compassion as just another idea, a constituency. I see it as a missing element in our body politic. It’s a dangerous idea to the ‘Deep State’, revolutionary. The desire for it runs deep in humans, but not in sociopaths obviously, and sociopaths rule the roost. It’s almost a necessity for the accumulation of power and wealth. 

[Pat Speer]

Oh boy, Ben and Chris are so off on this it's almost comical. The MSM was incredibly slow in realizing the threat Trump posed to America. They initially found him embarrassing and ridiculous, and only later (long after I had written my series of articles discussing what had really happened in 2016, in which I concluded Trump was essentially a fascist) realized there was more to it than some poor whites who'd been left behind voting for a TV personality who'd said he would help them. It was an attack on the left, and middle, and even center-right--way beyond any "attack" on the right by Obama or Hillary, etc. 

Dudes, understand. I live in a relatively quiet purple suburb. And yet under Trump's influence, and calling, hordes of camouflage-wearing white people began parading up and down our streets, blasting out Lee Greenwood, in caravans of white pick-up trucks designed to frighten and intimidate everyone other than them. 10-20% of the houses went from putting up flags on Memorial Day and the 4th of July to hoisting American, U.S. Military and Trump flags 24/7. Empty stores were converted into "Republican value" stores where Trump's devotees could gather and get their pictures taken with cardboard stand-ups of the whole Trump family. Not Lincoln. Or Reagan. Trump, and his family. Exclusively. 

It was deeply disturbing. So if you think people over-react when Trump talks of regaining office, etc. think about it this way: How would you feel if some goons took a dump on your front lawn, and then stood out on your front porch with a baseball bat threatening you if you came out to complain? Because that's what life was like here in suburbia under Trump. 

[Paul Brancato]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Chris:

From afar, as I read US media, it really seems set in stone: Donks-libs believe their news sources, and 'Phants-cons believe theirs. 

What is disappointing to me is that on this very forum, in which we could hope for a great  deal of skepticism regarding Deep State manipulation of the news, and distrust of both coopted political parties---instead we get the red- blue- kool-aid pissing contests. 

Some people here believe FBI Director Robert Mueller covered up the truth about the 9/11 attack, an accessory after the fact to the murder of 3,000 Americans. Then Mueller testified to WMD in Iraq, adding his name and the FBI banner to the cause of perma-wars in the Mideast. 

Can you sink lower than that? 

But when Mueller was tabbed to run the Russiagate investigation---he becomes honorable.

Same deal on Liz Cheney.  A "profile in courage!" 

You see, the problem is not a Deep State that runs an imperialistic global guard service for multinationals, and a panopticon state domestically, and will be here after we are all dead. 

The problem is Trump. 

 

I’m not sure I fit into the mold of Donks as you refer to it. I’m certainly not propagandized by their media outlets. I’m not in a red blue pissing contest. I can hold shades of meaning simultaneously. Liz Cheney did a courageous thing, at least judging by the rarity of anyone bucking Trump. That’s as far as it goes. I’m as annoyed by overstating that as you are, and still I admire what she did, period. Robert Mueller is a tool. My then girlfriend kept licking her chops waiting for the Russia Mueller report. I refrained from bursting her bubble once I saw how wedded she was to her soon to be hero. As for Trump, as Chris says there is a class of Democrats who slather at the mention of his name. I’m not one of them, don’t fall for the ‘anyone but Trump’ spin. He’s not even our worst modern president in my opinion - that would be Bush Jr. But he is disgusting. So I’m partisan. At the same time I hold the view that his openness to talking one on one with autocrats and dictators is admirable. I don’t see him as a Putin puppet. But I do think he is extremely dangerous, because if he were to succeed in overthrowing the current political system he would install something far worse. I fear some of his constituencies. I don’t want a race war, vigilante justice. But I crave dialogue with those same constituencies, know that there is far more common ground than our divide and rule elites want us to discover. 

[Paul Brancato]

4 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh boy, Ben and Chris are so off on this it's almost comical. The MSM was incredibly slow in realizing the threat Trump posed to America. They initially found him embarrassing and ridiculous, and only later (long after I had written my series of articles discussing what had really happened in 2016, in which I concluded Trump was essentially a fascist) realized there was more to it than some poor whites who'd been left behind voting for a TV personality who'd said he would help them. It was an attack on the left, and middle, and even center-right--way beyond any "attack" on the right by Obama or Hillary, etc. 

Dudes, understand. I live in a relatively quiet purple suburb. And yet under Trump's influence, and calling, hordes of camouflage-wearing white people began parading up and down our streets, blasting out Lee Greenwood, in caravans of white pick-up trucks designed to frighten and intimidate everyone other than them. 10-20% of the houses went from putting up flags on Memorial Day and the 4th of July to hoisting American, U.S. Military and Trump flags 24/7. Empty stores were converted into "Republican value" stores where Trump's devotees could gather and get their pictures taken with cardboard stand-ups of the whole Trump family. Not Lincoln. Or Reagan. Trump, and his family. Exclusively. 

It was deeply disturbing. So if you think people over-react when Trump talks of regaining office, etc. think about it this way: How would you feel if some goons took a dump on your front lawn, and then stood out on your front porch with a baseball bat threatening you if you came out to complain? Because that's what life was like here in suburbia under Trump. 

Couldn’t have said it better 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh boy, Ben and Chris are so off on this it's almost comical. The MSM was incredibly slow in realizing the threat Trump posed to America. They initially found him embarrassing and ridiculous, and only later (long after I had written my series of articles discussing what had really happened in 2016, in which I concluded Trump was essentially a fascist) realized there was more to it than some poor whites who'd been left behind voting for a TV personality who'd said he would help them. It was an attack on the left, and middle, and even center-right--way beyond any "attack" on the right by Obama or Hillary, etc. 

Dudes, understand. I live in a relatively quiet purple suburb. And yet under Trump's influence, and calling, hordes of camouflage-wearing white people began parading up and down our streets, blasting out Lee Greenwood, in caravans of white pick-up trucks designed to frighten and intimidate everyone other than them. 10-20% of the houses went from putting up flags on Memorial Day and the 4th of July to hoisting American, U.S. Military and Trump flags 24/7. Empty stores were converted into "Republican value" stores where Trump's devotees could gather and get their pictures taken with cardboard stand-ups of the whole Trump family. Not Lincoln. Or Reagan. Trump, and his family. Exclusively. 

It was deeply disturbing. So if you think people over-react when Trump talks of regaining office, etc. think about it this way: How would you feel if some goons took a dump on your front lawn, and then stood out on your front porch with a baseball bat threatening you if you came out to complain? Because that's what life was like here in suburbia under Trump. 

You're actually making my point here, Pat. Should Ben and I be accompanying any mention of Mr T with a proclamation that I still think he is an awful statesman and a buffoon? I shouldn't need to. It sounds like you are genuinely afraid, which means you'll be thinking with the older part of the brain, the emotional part, as opposed to the rational thinking part, which is newer in our evolution (I can break this down if you wish). My contention is that you are in a mass psychosis, just like these flag toting guys that are causing you to feel fear. It's just set by one party and not the other. Had it occurred to you that an afraid society is much more malleable and manipulable? I just think you don't understand how the state is doing to this. 



 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Btw I don’t see compassion as just another idea, a constituency. I see it as a missing element in our body politic. It’s a dangerous idea to the ‘Deep State’, revolutionary. The desire for it runs deep in humans, but not in sociopaths obviously, and sociopaths rule the roost. It’s almost a necessity for the accumulation of power and wealth. 

I agree, it certainly isn't just an idea, we do need it. However, the deep state are using it specifically just to manipulate us and run their agenda. They are playing on these instincts of ours. They can switch it on or turn it off just by running MSM campaigns. This is what most struggle to see, they don't see their vulnerabilities. It might be time to take a close look at the role of behavioural/social scientists over the past two years. 

[Pat Speer]

35 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

You're actually making my point here, Pat. Should Ben and I be accompanying any mention of Mr T with a proclamation that I still think he is an awful statesman and a buffoon? I shouldn't need to. It sounds like you are genuinely afraid, which means you'll be thinking with the older part of the brain, the emotional part, as opposed to the rational thinking part, which is newer in our evolution (I can break this down if you wish). My contention is that you are in a mass psychosis, just like these flag toting guys that are causing you to feel fear. It's just set by one party and not the other. Had it occurred to you that an afraid society is much more malleable and manipulable? I just think you don't understand how the state is doing to this. 



 

I don't know if you could be any more insulting. Responding to a tangible threat to the well-being of your friends and family is "psychosis"?

Please. it's the real world. Trump was not just a threat to my way of life. He and his minions threatened our actual lives. On a near daily basis. You can not talk about him as just another statesman or policy-maker. He tried to become a dictator, and was willing to stomach mass carnage and un-civil war for power. 

There was no deep state plan to stop Trump. If there had been he would have been stopped years before the 2020 election. He had the Justice Dopt. largely under his control. He had the right-wing media under his control. He had millions of militarized defenders of the white way of life under his control. But democracy won in 2020. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your world-view.

 

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I don't know if you could be any more insulting. Responding to a tangible threat to the well-being of your friends and family is "psychosis"?

Please. it's the real world. Trump was not just a threat to my way of life. He and his minions threatened our actual lives. On a near daily basis. You can not talk about him as just another statesman or policy-maker. He tried to become a dictator, and was willing to stomach mass carnage and un-civil war for power. 

There was no deep state plan to stop Trump. If there had been he would have been stopped years before the 2020 election. He had the Justice Dopt. largely under his control. He had the right-wing media under his control. He had millions of militarized defenders of the white way of life under his control. But democracy won in 2020. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your world-view.

 

Perhaps this highlights what is going on in your amygdala, Pat. I wasn't intending to insult you, as I am sure your comment about Ben and I wasn't meant that way. I wasn't offended. 

Addressing the middle paragraph; Trump is a used car salesman who has served a purpose. We couldn't differ more on your perception of Trump in terms of the threat. The only explanation for you being unable to see 'divide and rule' strategy being used by your party, as well as the other, is that you're in a fear psychosis. I am sorry if that's unwelcome. 

Haven't we already addressed the Roger Stone / Bannon / Trump campaign narrative about the deep state? The conglomerates that dominate the ownership of MSM controlled the media, as they do now, not Trump. IMHO Trump served a purpose, like Biden is now. You think it's a battle of virtue, good vs evil and the blue team carry the torch of freedom and democracy. I think you're in Plato's cave watching torch lit projections on a wall. That's essentially the crux of my argument in the whole thread. It's so simple to see the theatre being a neutral. I can switch between Fox and CNN, they're doing the same thing, attacking your senses with sensation. The population is consumed by it. 


 

[Paul Brancato]

Pat - I live in a very blue area of California. Yet I have no trouble empathizing with you, coming so close to MAGA people and Trump devotees. I know there is common ground, but when you’re confronted by enthusiasm for a would be dictator in your back yard it’s mighty hard to find it. I’m honestly not sure why Chris would try to fit your personal experience into his analysis. I know that in your shoes I’d feel uncomfortable. For the sake of clarity, would you agree that it’s not their views you fear, it’s their actions, especially going forward?