"The Assassination & Mrs. Paine" comes out this month

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

So it was news to you guys. It was a simple question. You didn't know 14,000 documents were still being kept secret and you didn't even know who holds those documents. Amazing.

We don't know how many documents are regarding Ruth Paine, because the documents haven't been released yet. It's been said multiple times now. What is so hard for you to understand about this?

The issue is not what is unknown but the basis for a claim that something is known. The film claims to know: "dozens of files related to the Paines remain classified" after Oct 2021. (Exact wording at the end.) Definitely, not maybe but definitely, into two digits of number of files related to the Paines, says the film at its close. Not "Nobody has any idea if this is even true but maybe there could be files related to the Paines remain classified..." but asserted as known fact. If your collective you ("we") do not know that any documents refer to the Paines, why do you suppose the filmmaker is asserting knowledge that you say nobody knows?  

Has it occurred to you that maybe he does know? He says he does. Are you sure he does not know what he claims to know? 

Would you consider asking him (or DiEugenio if DiEugenio knows) to disclose?

I have received no answer when I have asked. I would like to know.

[Michael Crane]

21 hours ago, Richard Price said:

Michael, I think you have gotten the vehicles mixed up.  The Nash Rambler was not Ruth's car, she had a station wagon, but it was a 1955 Chevrolet (light green).  When LHO made his remark about not bringing her (meaning Ruth) into this, I believe he had only heard part of a conversation that a station wagon was seen stopping near the TSBD.  The fact that it turned out to be a Nash Rambler per the witness(es) is the second part of the story, I believe.  That's when people trying to trace who owned the Nash Rambler found what they believed to be the same car at a local college/university parking lot and tied it in to some of the names on the periphery of the assassination.  I think it also had an earlier link to persons in the anti-Castro or pro Castro groups, I forget which.  Hopefully this will help your quest, I have been down so many rabbit holes over the last 50+ years that it is impossible (at least for me) to remember 5% of the information I have encountered along the way.

Yeah Rich,I will admit that I do not know my cars that well.I just seen the car in the driveway & took it for granted that it was a Nash Rambler.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

6 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

We don't know how many documents are regarding Ruth Paine, because the documents haven't been released yet.

Wrong, we do know. I'll let Robert Reynolds explain:

[quote on]

Two possible answers [to the allegations of "other" documents]. They may be thinking of documents which are NOT held in the JFK collection at NARA. I can't say anything about those. It's a big world out there with lots of paper in it to write things down on.

IF they are thinking of documents in the JFK collection, that is a different story. The collection is known. It is numbered like the tribes of Israel in the Book of Numbers. Not every word in the collection is accessible to the public, but every word IS accessible to the people at NARA who have charge of the collection. (None of these people work for the CIA.)

What is not accessible to the public? There is a lot of confusion about this. There are documents withheld and documents missing and documents redacted. 515 records in the Collection are withheld. In full. With the exception of the Manchester interviews with JBK and RFK, all of these docs have been seen multiple times by the WC, the HSCA, the ARRB and those lucky dogs at NARA. They are almost all tax records.

There are 33 records in the collection that are "missing." There is a page up at NARA on these. If you believe NARA, nothing Paine related is there. If you don't believe NARA, please explain why. But you have to buy me a six pack of beer first.

NARA also says there are 14,236 records with redactions in the collection. People need to get this straight. These records are OPEN to the public in copies that have bits blanked out. Almost all of these were put online 2017-2018. You can look at them any time. I've looked at all of the CIA ones, some of the FBI ones. It was incredibly boring. The blanked bits are for the most part single names or locations. There is nothing there on the Paines. The bit blanking leaves more than enough context to show this. Look for yourself.

[quote off]

[Cory Santos]

9 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

So it was news to you guys. It was a simple question. You didn't know 14,000 documents were still being kept secret and you didn't even know who holds those documents. Amazing.

We don't know how many documents are regarding Ruth Paine, because the documents haven't been released yet. It's been said multiple times now. What is so hard for you to understand about this?

Denny, I will ask again. 
You entered a grown up conversation so if you have relevant information please do share.  The issue is simple to grasp.  An author claims dozens of records are withheld/redacted regarding Ruth Paine.  
In response several posted that is not true.  According to the archives actually one one such document (not counting tax documents) is still relevant.  A request was made then by a poster to identify the records the author referenced. 
In response Mr.  Lowe stated in part  “There are many many documents still to be released that Reynolds would not have access to because no one has access to them.”

Now, I asked the obvious question, basically how can an author know there are dozens of records when “no one has access to them.”
Obviously, if they exist, someone has access to them.  Then you entered in and tried to educate everyone to the idea that that documents were still withheld and/or redacted.   For the record, we all knew.  Just read past posts.  
Perhaps now that you have been brought up to speed you can answer the simple question.  
The author claims there are dozens of files still redacted/withheld on Ruth Paine.  Tracey says otherwise.  I wish to know which side is right here.   If there are dozens of such files, who has them, where are they, identify them-if in the archives they would be identifiable, how do you know they are about Ruth Paine?
Can you answer that Denny?

Edited June 5, 2022 by Cory Santos

[Denis Morissette]

17 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

 

The National Archives.

700 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW

Washington, DC 20408

I know about them because they were mentioned in the most recent release of JFK documents.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-15/read-full-documents-jfk-papers-release-reveal-more-on-assassination

Is this really news to you guys?

Wrong address! All documents are at NARA II, a different building in another are in Washington.

[Sandy Larsen]

16 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

This community is absolutely smearing an innocent person in Ruth Paine, who never did anything to you, never did anything to Marina or Lee.

 

Sorry Greg, but you just made that sentence up. You have no idea whether it is true or not.

We are conspiracy theorists. We can and do hypothesize about Ruth Paine's role in the assassination. Based on the known data. That is acceptable practice.

But you are doing a bad thing that I cannot say on the forum. To correct that, you should precede your "Ruth is innocent" statements with phrases like "in my opinion."

 

[Denis Morissette]

A new documentary should be entitled The Assassination of Ruth Paine’s Character.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Denis Morissette

[W. Tracy Parnell]

16 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

A new documentary should be entitled The Assassination of Ruth Paine’s Character.

You got that right!

[Sandy Larsen]

16 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

And although there is no evidence she was an informant, what if she was? That is no crime nor would it account for the venom against her in this community.

 

I agree with Greg that there should be no venom against Ruth. Because I believe she was directed to do the things she (allegedly) did. Still, I understand why others might have ill feelings toward her because their their theory is not the same as mine.

Someone suggested earlier that if she must have known after the  assassination that her employer, the CIA, was behind it. Because she was being told to lie against Oswald. And that an innocent person would not have stayed with the CIA and later even gone to Nicaragua (or wherever it was) for the CIA like she did. But consider this possibility... maybe the authorities told Ruth that Oswald was involved with Russia/Cuba in the assassination. And they needed her help in convicting Oswald as the lone assassin in order to prevent WW3. And she went along with that thinking it was a noble cause.

Since we really have no idea what Ruth went through, I don't think any of us should think of Ruth as a bad person. She just may have unwittingly done bad things.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Denny, I will ask again. 
You entered a grown up conversation so if you have relevant information please do share.  The issue is simple to grasp.  An author claims dozens of records are withheld/redacted regarding Ruth Paine.  
In response several posted that is not true.  According to the archives actually one one such document (not counting tax documents) is still relevant.  A request was made then by a poster to identify the records the author referenced. 
In response Mr.  Lowe stated in part  “There are many many documents still to be released that Reynolds would not have access to because no one has access to them.”

Now, I asked the obvious question, basically how can an author know there are dozens of records when “no one has access to them.”
Obviously, if they exist, someone has access to them.  Then you entered in and tried to educate everyone to the idea that that documents were still withheld and/or redacted.   For the record, we all knew.  Just read past posts.  
Perhaps now that you have been brought up to speed you can answer the simple question.  
The author claims there are dozens of files still redacted/withheld on Ruth Paine.  Tracey says otherwise.  I wish to know which side is right here.   If there are dozens of such files, who has them, where are they, identify them-if in the archives they would be identifiable, how do you know they are about Ruth Paine?
Can you answer that Denny?

 

As you said earlier...

A fair question.

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

The Assassination and Mrs. Paine-JFK and the CIA ~ W. Tracy Parnell (wtracyparnell.blogspot.com)

[Ron Bulman]

Warren Commission, Volume II: Ruth Hyde Paine (aarclibrary.org)

[W. Tracy Parnell]

The Assassination and Mrs. Paine-Ruth's Greatest Hits ~ W. Tracy Parnell (wtracyparnell.blogspot.com)

[James DiEugenio]

Right now I am preparing a two part review of The Assassination and Mrs. Paine.

I have some reservations about the film, and i include those in my review, but everyone should see it.

In addition to my review, we will include links to the  8 part Probe series by Carol Hewett, Barbara La Monica and Steve Jones which is a landmark in the field.

In my review, i will also include a summary of Greg Parker's excellent work on Burt Hootkins, which is to me of the utmost potential importance and I wish would have been in the film.

[Denny Zartman]

On 6/5/2022 at 2:43 PM, Cory Santos said:

You entered a grown up conversation so if you have relevant information please do share.  The issue is simple to grasp.  An author claims dozens of records are withheld/redacted regarding Ruth Paine.  
In response several posted that is not true.  According to the archives actually one one such document (not counting tax documents) is still relevant.  A request was made then by a poster to identify the records the author referenced. 
In response Mr.  Lowe stated in part  “There are many many documents still to be released that Reynolds would not have access to because no one has access to them.”

Now, I asked the obvious question, basically how can an author know there are dozens of records when “no one has access to them.”

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27750-are-any-records-being-held-back-on-ruth-paine/

Quote

So one can get up to two dozen records withheld/redacted for Ruth Hyde Paine