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Anybody seen Tiny?


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Sometime in the middle of the Summer of 1963, a very large man started coming in the Carousel Club. The workers nicknamed him "Tiny" and the bartender and "general manager", Andrew Armstrong said that he very rarely missed a weekend. In light of the fact that some people said they thought they saw Oswald in the Carousel, the Warren Commission developed some interest in this person. You can see this person in vol. 19 of the Hearings and Exhibits under Armstrong Exhibit# 5303-I (copied below). He is the person to the right of the picture, in a white shirt, just behind the microphone.

Ralph Paul (14H160)

Mr. HUBERT. I'm now going to show you a picture which has been identified as one of the pictures in Exhibit 5303 A through M deposition on Andrew Armstrong, a picture which shows a girl in a bikini suit, a blond girl. There seems to be two sailors in the picture and on the right-hand side of the picture as you look at it, there is a rather large man in a white shirt with his left elbow leaning on the stage, and I ask you if you know who the girl is, do you recognize her?

Mr. PAUL. That's the same Kathy Kay.

Mr. HUBERT. That's Kathy Kay?

Mr. PAUL. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is the man, the fat man, that I have referred to with the white shirt, the very heavy man?

Mr. PAUL. This one over here?

Mr. HUBERT. Yes.

Mr. PAUL. I don't know.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see him there?

Mr. PAUL. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You never did?

Mr. PAUL. No--there isn't a familiar face in there. What is he supposed to be?

Karen “Little Lynn” Carlin (13H215)

Mr. Hubert. Do you remember a rather large heavy fat man, very heavily built, who used to come to the Carousel almost every weekend and used to sit close by the stage and sort of carry on a banter with the theatre?

Mrs. CARLIN. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. Do you know who he is?

Mrs. CARLIN. No; about 300 pounds.

Mr. Hubert. Yes.

Mrs. CARLIN. Used to beat on the stage and holler and scream. I don't remember--I don't know his name. I never did meet him, but I remember him.

Andrew Armstrong (13H363)

Mr. HUBERT. Let's then take Exhibit No. 5303-A, first, and tell me whom you recognize in that picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. This right here--the first picture.

Mr. HUBERT. We are talking about the top picture on the left hand side right?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right--is Joy Dale, and the M.C. that's shown in all of these pictures, the little man on the stage give me a minute and I will try to think of his name, but coming down the line, the second picture on the left hand side is Tammi True.

Mr. HUBERT. That's the girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That's the girl--she is being held up by a very huge gentleman by the name of--oh--I know his name-- his name is Tiny--he comes in the club quite often and he usually gets the same seat--a special chair we had there for him.

Mr. HUBERT. This picture appears several times, does it not?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, it appears in the third row of the left-hand picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. And it appears in the bottom row of the left-hand picture, correct?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. How often would that man come to the club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he started to coming there back in the summer--last summer and he was usually there he very seldom missed a weekend.

Mr. HUBERT. You knew him only as Tiny?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. As Tiny.

Mr. HUBERT. You never heard his last name?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Was he friendly with Ruby?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not friendly--just that--he didn't well, you could say they was friendly, but they didn't know each other, anything about each other's backgrounds, or anything like that.

Mr. HUBERT. He always came alone?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. One time he came there with a couple other guys, but just once, otherwise, he was all alone.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you know the other men he came with?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You don't remember when he came in with the other two men?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No--the top picture is----

Mr. HUBERT. Wait a minute, before we leave the big man called Tiny, when was the last time you saw him, to your knowledge?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Three or four nights ago---Saturday night--I think.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean this past Saturday night?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. You are talking about April 11?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Where did you see him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. At the Theatre Lounge.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I have saw him in there, oh, about four times I think in the last month--I would say.

Mr. HUBERT. And prior to that, when was the last time you saw him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Prior to that--the last time I saw him was at the club.

Mr. HUBERT. When was that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Oh, I would say it was probably the last weekend before we closed.

Mr. HUBERT. He continued to come to the club, then, after the assassination?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever talk to him about Ruby's shooting Oswald?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever hear him talk to anybody else about it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, never did. The reason why he's got to be so popular is because he is a helper--he cracks a few jokes and the M.C.'s like to talk to him because he don't get out of line when they talk to him, and he is usually called on during the spinning of the roulette wheel, or something like that, and if he won a bottle of champagne or something like that, it was a big thing.

Mr. HUBERT. Was he employed by the club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, he wasn't employed, he was just a regular customer that has very nice conduct and has a good sense of humor.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the M.C.'s figure they can always get a kick out of him, which would amuse the audience?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

George Senator – (14H272)

Mr. GRIFFIN. Then I hand you Exhibit 5303-A, and I would like you to look over that photograph. It is actually a series of about 12 small photos. Can you tell me if you recognize anybody in there?

Mr. SENATOR. Well, I know it is the Carousel. These prints are pretty small for my eyesight. I have seen him. I don't know who he is, but I have seen him.

Mr. GRIFFIN. You are indicating a fat, obese man?

Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I have seen him.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Where have you seen him?

Mr. SENATOR. At the Carousel.

Mr. SENATOR. Yes. As a matter of fact, I think I saw him do the twist once.

Mr. GRIFFIN. That big, fat man?

Mr. SENATOR. Yes. But I can't see the faces here. But I can't help but recognize him.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now look at Exhibit 5303-F and tell me if you recognize anybody in there?

Mr. SENATOR, This is Kathy Kay.

Mr. GRIFFIN. The stripper is Kathy Kay?

Mr. SENATOR, Kathy Kay, and this is Joy on this side.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Joy Dale on the right-hand side, a stripper?

Mr. SENATOR. Yes.

Mr. GRIFFIN. And Kathy Kay on the left?

Mr. SENATOR. This is that big heavy-set fellow which I can tell. I don't know his name.

Mr. GRIFFIN. The top picture in the center?

Mr. SENATOR. Yes.

I got to wondering if Tiny had ever been identified and ever asked what, if anyhting, he had to add to the question of whether he ever saw Oswald, or an Oswald look-alike in the Carousel Club in the months and days leading up to November 22nd.

Steve Thomas

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Hi Steve,

I have no idea about 'Tiny' but most interesting.

From that image you posted comes the following crop where I believe the suggestion was made somewhere (my memory is on vacation) that the individual strongly resembles Oswald.

If this guy is Oswald (I don't believe it is) or indeed an impersonator, the fact that he appears as a Commission Exibit is delicious irony.

FWIW.

James

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Mr. GRIFFIN. Now look at Exhibit 5303-F and tell me if you recognize anybody in there?

Mr. SENATOR, This is Kathy Kay.

Mr. GRIFFIN. The stripper is Kathy Kay?

Mr. SENATOR, Kathy Kay, and this is Joy on this side.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Joy Dale on the right-hand side, a stripper?

Mr. SENATOR. Yes.

Mr. GRIFFIN. And Kathy Kay on the left?

From Ian Griggs on the Lancer Forum July 1, 2003:

(1) A Casselbury, FL FBI report of 3rd September 1976 describes a meeting of ex-Carousel Club employees in Dallas about three weeks after the assassination. They wewre discussing back pay, among other things. (QUOTE): "During this meeting he (Ralph Paul) was talking with Kathy Kay in the presence of Billy Willis, a drummer, about Jack Ruby killing Lee Harvey Oswald. Kay told him that she haddanced with the man who shot President Kennedy about one month before the

shooting, which was about a week before Weston slugged the customer who called him a Communist. Kay remarked that it was the same man that shot President Kennedy that she had danced with earlier and that Weston had slugged."

(2) From a Tampa, FL FBI report of 21st September 1976: (QUOTE):

"Wally Weston, a former Master of Cereminies at the Carousel Club (said that) he could establish that Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald knew each other before the assassination of President Kennedy and that Kathy Kay, a former stripper at the Carousel Club, could corroborate his story."

So there we have two claims that KK saw LHO in the Carousel Club. Against that, however, we have the following, in which she denies it.

(3) FBI San Francisco report (10th September 1976) to J. Edgar Hoover includes (QUOTE):

"Coleman (that's Kathy Kay) denied that she ever made any utterance to Wally Weston that she had danced with lee Harvey Oswald at the

Carousel Club prior to the assassination of President Kennedy."

(4) FBI airtel from Hoover to FBI offices at Dallas, Miami and Los Angeles, dated 5th September 1976 includes (QUOTE): "Kay allegedly told Weston that Oswald was the man Westonm punched and she had danced with Oswald." Later in the same airtel, we have (QUOTE): "She testified under oath that she had never seen Oswald at the Carousel Club and had never seen him or heard of him prior to 11/22/63. She was asked if Ruby knew Oswald and she said she did not think so."

Steve Thomas

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