Prayer Man

[Pat Speer]

50 minutes ago, Roger Odisio said:

Some good points, Greg.

I had exactly that experience you speak of at my brother's funeral.  I was talking with a small group when for some reason I turned around and there was one of my best friends from high school standing there.  I don't know how long he had been there without saying anything or why I turned around when I did.

In this case the attention of everyone on the steps was focused on the motorcade.  Oswald was behind them, back in the corner on the top step.  There was  no reason for anyone to turn around and notice him.  Then the shots rang out and confusion reigned.

Oswald likely was only there briefly.  We don't know when he arrived.  Was it just before the shots or just after?

As to Frazier's honesty, I'll take a pass.  On the day of the murder, Fritz tried to intimidate him into confessing to be Oswald's accomplice.  He could see what happened to anyone who tried to contradict the official story.

I think there is a decent chance that at some point, given their proximity at the time, Frazier *did* realize Oswald was there.  A 19 year old kid, he wasn't going to say anything after what he had already been through.  And what he could see happening to others. He could see how easy it was to frame Oswald and get away with it.  Staying out of it was an easy, perhaps his only, choice.

Put yourself in his shoes now.  How do you confess that you knew all along Oswald was on the steps, but kept quiet?  

He's in his 70s now.  My guess is the only chance that Frazier comes clean--if in fact he did notice Oswald--(admittedly a big if) is if there is a movement strong enough to get a examination of Prayerman to provide him some cover.  A long shot at this point.

As to what Oswald said while being dragged briefly through the hallway, he was savvy enough to know not blurt out his defense to a bunch of reporters he could see were hell bent on doing the police's dirty work to frame him.  Shouting "I'm just a patsy" was actually a good try.  What did it get him?

Actually, shouting he was just a patsy together with the alibi he gave under questioning and the dearth of evidence against him (they couldn't legitimately place him on the 6th floor because he wasn't there) only served to speed up the time frame for Oswald's execution.  Before he could get a lawyer.  He couldn't be allowed a defense.

 

  

In the "official" evidence, even without the proposition Oswald was Prayer Man, Oswald had an alibi. He was on the lower floors at the time of the shooting. He was seen on these floors by Shelley, Piper and Arnold. Shortly after the shooting, he was seen on the second floor by Baker and Truly, who failed to notice anything indicating he'd just raced down the stairs. And then there were Adams, Styles, and Garner, whose recollections supported that no one had raced down the stairs. And finally there was Dougherty, whose actual statements indicated that someone other than Oswald had come down on an elevator as Baker and Truly ran up the stairs, but whose statements were spun into nonsense by the people tasked with selling the Oswald-did-it theory. In this theory, to be clear, the Oswald-did-it proponents placed Dougherty on the fifth floor by the elevator as Oswald raced past him downstairs. And yet, they have Dougherty failing to notice Oswald because...because he was retarded. 

As stated elsewhere, this was Joe Ball's favorite M.O.--to try to make problematic witnesses look retarded. My suspicion is that it wouldn't have worked in this case due to a plethora of other evidence, such as the failure of Dougherty to notice Jarman, Norman, and Williams, and the failure of them to notice him. There would also have been character witnesses, such as Roy Truly, who would begrudgingly admit that Dougherty knew how to tell time. In any event, from this it would have become clear that Dougherty did in fact take the west elevator up after the shooting, which would have then raised the question of who took this elevator down from an upper floor after Oswald had already been spotted on a lower floor by Baker and Truly. 

So, yeah, Oswald had an alibi, that may have stood up at trial, should there have been a trial.

And I say "may have" only because, well, you never know, it could be that someone who wasn't supposed to be in the building was on the fifth floor with Norman, Jarman, and Williams, and that he took the elevator down while they raced down the stairs. Or some such thing. There are a number of possibilities. But there's no evidence for any of them, thanks to the various agencies cutting off their investigations once they realized they could pin the tale on the Oswald. 

[Pete Mellor]

On 8/4/2022 at 12:17 PM, Derek Thibeault said:

Why did Bart leave the forum

As I came in the Forum front door, Bart left by the back door...so I'm not sure exactly what the topic was, P.M. or some other thread, but he told me he split from the E.F. because of adverse comments from other members.  Whatever the topic, his opinions/ideas/beliefs were attacked.  Bart is someone who is very certain in his beliefs, very dogmatic.  He is also very passionate and dedicated to researching the JFK case, as is clear with the massive amount of work he has taken on with Malcolm Blunt's archive for Dealey Plaza U.K..  Also, as someone from the Netherlands, he could be described as a 'Dutch Uncle'. 😃

[Derek Thibeault]

8 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

As I came in the Forum front door, Bart left by the back door...so I'm not sure exactly what the topic was, P.M. or some other thread, but he told me he split from the E.F. because of adverse comments from other members.  Whatever the topic, his opinions/ideas/beliefs were attacked.  Bart is someone who is very certain in his beliefs, very dogmatic.  He is also very passionate and dedicated to researching the JFK case, as is clear with the massive amount of work he has taken on with Malcolm Blunt's archive for Dealey Plaza U.K..  Also, as someone from the Netherlands, he could be described as a 'Dutch Uncle'. 😃

Thanks - that's too bad. Debate is healthy, I enjoyed his work, really made me think. Never even occurred to me that Oswald may or may not have been watching the parade.

[Roger Odisio]

I agree with much in the first paragraph except for the Truly-Baker sighting of Oswald on the second floor.  Oswald went to the second floor to get a coke to have with his lunch.  He ate his lunch on the first floor which was the lunch room for laborers like him.  Before the murder.

I'm not aware of any clear evidence he was on the second floor after the shooting.  Except for the infamous second floor lunch room encounter with Truly and Baker.

That was fabricated by the WC to try to lend weight to their story that he came down the stairs after the shooting.  It appeared nowhere in the first day reports and Baker in particular had trouble keeping the story straight in subsequent recountings.

The story was refuted by Adams, Styles, and Garner, as you point out.  Particularly Garner, who remained  on the fourth floor without ever seeing or hearing Oswald as Truly arrived after supposedly encountering Oswald on the second floor.  Adams story was altered by the WC to try to show she came down the stairs later than she said, without Adams even knowing about it until she was told by Barry Earnest.  I think Styles and Garner were ignored by the WC.  It was easier to lie about Adams that to confront what all three had to say.

I'd say the investigation never started.  The WC was just an assemblage of lawyers designed from the beginning to frame Oswald.  Contrary evidence was ignored, distorted, and lied about with that purpose in mind.  

[Tom Gram]

9 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

David, isn't there one "gorilla walking by" that Frazier did miss, namely officer Baker going in the door right by him? What are the implications of that for Frazier also not noticing if Oswald without saying a word had come out the door and stood nearby for about 30 seconds, then without saying a word had quietly gone back in again. Maybe no different?

On Frazier's comment on the Prayer Man image, the first point that stands out to me is that Frazier is being honest (which I already think of Frazier anyway), i.e. he is not wilfully removing an Oswald alibi (but knows better) because if that were the case he would have said "I remember that person and it was not Oswald". No, the significant detail here is he does not remember that person and cannot identify that person. That to me leaves the matter open as opposed to closed, in terms of Oswald's presence being excluded by Frazier. That Frazier says the image does not look like Oswald is of no bearing and that Frazier says "Lee was not out there. I know that to be true" sounds like it cannot be other than paraphrase for "I never remembered Oswald out on those steps--it is unbelievable to me that that could be true". Frazier obviously had no personal witnessed knowledge of Oswald being somewhere else. All he has is he has is no memory of noticing or remembering Oswald on the steps with Frazier and "if he were there I would have noticed". That is all Frazier can mean by that ("Lee was not out there. I know that to be true.") However he does not remember noticing the "prayer man" person at all, and (separate matter) he did not notice a gorilla going right by him in those very same moments, a uniformed police officer. His not noticing the gorilla going by, uniformed officer Baker, suggests in those moments of trauma or shock or adrenalin in the seconds after hearing and seeing shots at the presidential motorcade, that some things just are not being noticed immediately around Frazier that normally would have been noticed. 

Therefore Frazier does not and it appears never would be able to confirm Oswald's presence even if it turns out to be unequivocally true that that was Oswald--because he never saw him, never remembered him, to his right, no more than the gorilla who went by him to the left, uniformed officer Baker. He is truthful in not having seen or remembered either, but that in itself is insufficient to exclude that either happened. 

How many times have each of us had the experience of standing intently watching some thing or event at a distance, then be startled at realizing someone we knew had been standing right next to us close by for some time, that we did not realize had walked up and been there without our noticing? That could be the case if "prayer man" was Oswald except in this case Frazier never had the "startle" of noticing.

As for "Naturally if I work in that building I'm in that building", that clip has so many reporters asking questions of Oswald at the same time with Oswald having only moments to respond in a chaotic atmosphere it is ambiguous. I don't see much difference between "No (I did not kill the president)" and "No (I did not kill the president), I was out on the front steps/on the second floor/in the domino room, etc. at the time". Of course he could have blurted out something of that nature, tried to argue his innocence in a few seconds, when he was briefly presented at the press conference that night but he may have decided to use his scarce seconds there to focus on the greater priority, getting a lawyer. (Side comment: I flat do not believe that Oswald declined interest in having immediate legal counsel while he waited however many days it would take to get New York attorney Abt involved in his case that he really wanted. I know that was reported. But I do not find that report believable.) Once he had counsel, plenty of time to go into the details of charges and alibi with the attorney. 

I agree with Bart Kamp that Hosty's "outside to watch P. Parade" was Oswald's answer when asked directly by Fritz where he was when the president was shot. That specific question with 100% certainty will have been asked of Oswald, and from all accounts Oswald was giving answers to most questions asked, and that would be the trace in Hosty's notes of Oswald's answer to that question. 

In other words, without knowing of the existence of the "prayer man" film footage, Oswald was claiming he was "prayer man".

And Buell Wesley Frazier's lack of memory of Prayer Man after studying the photos serves to neither confirm nor exclude whether "prayer man" was Oswald. 

I posted this on ROKC a while back. It's a memo I found in the files of Jim Garrison regarding Frazier's Shaw trial testimony:

Why the hell would Frazier bring up Doorway Man without any prompting and give such a cryptic answer: "I know that was not him"? Sure he probably knew it was Lovelady by why not just say so? It's the kind of bizarre, sketchy response you'd expect from someone who knew that Doorway Man wasn't Oswald because they knew where Oswald was really standing. 

Frazier seemed "very disturbed" about testifying and asked for protection from the press, then became "rather inquisitive" about Garrison's case and spontaneously brought up Doorway Man. Was Frazier worried that Garrison got ahold of a film showing him talking to Oswald on the steps? Who knows, but either way it's a pretty interesting memo IMO. 

[Greg Doudna]

6 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

I think there is a decent chance that at some point, given their proximity at the time, Frazier *did* realize Oswald was there.  A 19 year old kid, he wasn't going to say anything after what he had already been through.  And what he could see happening to others. He could see how easy it was to frame Oswald and get away with it.  Staying out of it was an easy, perhaps his only, choice.

Put yourself in his shoes now.  How do you confess that you knew all along Oswald was on the steps, but kept quiet?  

Well its possible. A similar instance of this may already have happened, when Frazier told the Warren Commission he never saw Oswald after the assassination, but in later years he has said he did, he saw Oswald leaving the rear of the TSBD and crossing Houston Street.

However I don't think thats the case here, because if it were I would think he would say, "I just don't know who Prayer Man is; I don't remember Oswald there", without denying so emphatically that it could be Oswald (even as he says he does not know who Prayer is). Frazier has always spoken favorably of Oswald, has indicated he does not believe Oswald could have done the assassination (in light of the decent person Frazier saw Oswald as). If he did know Prayer Man was Oswald he might wish in some way that could come out, but there is no sign of that, which I interpret as he does not remember seeing Oswald there. It is the detail about not remembering or being able to identify Prayer Man at all that I find interesting. (He does not say, for example, "that's an easy one--that was Sarah Stanton".) However who knows for sure, you could be right. 

[James DiEugenio]

Bart Kamp is an invaluable researcher.

What he and Malcolm Blunt have done with the declassified files should be saluted. And they do it from Europe.

Sorry he is not here anymore.

[Greg Doudna]

Is it possible the 2018 interview with the daughter-in-law of Sarah Stanton, Rosa Daniel, is a family story in which Sarah Stanton told of seeing Oswald on the front steps of the TSBD? Supposedly Sarah Stanton told this story to family members from the time of the assassination. A caveat: Sarah Stanton gave the FBI in March 1964 a signed statement in which she said she never saw Oswald on Nov 22, 1963. But according to the family Sarah Stanton told them a different story, that she had encountered Oswald that day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUM4YlNiuus (audio)

https://jfkinsidejob.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FURTHERING-THE-LUNCHROOM-EVIDENCE.pdf (transcript)

The repeated theme from Rosa in this interview is that Sarah Stanton told of encountering Oswald "on the stairs" where Sarah Stanton had gone "to prepare herself", to be "on the stairs" in advance of seeing the president, which I think may refer to the front steps of the TSBD. 

Rosa: "She [Sarah Stanton] said, 'I went down because they said that, uh, the- that the President was going- they were already coming, but not- not there yet.' So she wanted to prepare herself and be on the stairs- where- where she met Oswald."

Sarah Stanton worked on the second floor and went down to the front steps of the TSBD to see the president pass by: "she wanted to prepare herself and be on the stairs." Rather than the "stairs" referring to one of the two stairwells going from the first to the second floor, I think that would be the front steps. Sarah Stanton was a heavyset woman who took the elevator and probably did not use the stairs. I believe there is testimony of Sarah Stanton using the elevator.

Sarah Stanton going "to prepare herself and be on the stairs" would refer to finding a good spot to stand on the front steps of the TSBD. Remember this is secondhand transmission as remembered in the family.

In talking to Oswald "on the stairs" where Sarah had gone "to prepare herself" to see the parade, Sarah said Oswald had a coke and that Oswald had told Sarah, when she asked, that he, Oswald, was not going out to lunch but would be returning to "his room". The "room" would be the domino room on the first floor. The picture is Oswald with coke in hand coming out from the domino room to go out to the front steps of the TSBD.

Rosa: "She (Sarah Stanton) says he was drinking a soda."

Rosa: "In- at the stairs."

Rosa: "That's what she said. At the stairs. And she asked him (Oswald) if he was going to go down to see it? And he said, 'No, I'm going to go upstairs.""

Little stock should be put in "down" and "up" in this hearsay transmission which likely involves interpretation of family re-tellers.

Rosa: "And--and he said, 'No, I'm--I'm just going to get this soda--I came down to get this soda and I'm going back'--back to--to the room where he was working.

Rosa: "Yes [Oswald had a soda in hand]. Yes. And, uh, she said that he wasn't going to go eat. That he had just come down to get the soda."

Words like "up" and "down" may have been easily garbled in transmission.

Rosa: "'[Sarah Stanton asked Oswald] Are you going up to lunch?' Yeah. And, uh--he said, 'No, I'm going back to--to my room."

"Up" to lunch, "out" to lunch, here interchangeable. No, he's not going to go "up to lunch", "out to lunch", "to lunch", he's just going to have the coke and return to the domino room.

Rosa: "That--the reason--the reason [Sarah Stanton asked Oswald if he was going to lunch] is she wanted to talk to him. 'Cause he was a very quiet person. And he was not going to--to have conversations with nobody. So, she said that--he never talked. So, she asked--she asked him if he was going out for lunch. If he was going to lunch. And he said, 'No, just the soda.'"

The signed statement Sarah Stanton gave the FBI, dated 3/18/64, in which Sarah Stanton wrote: "I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day": https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=705.

Compare Billy Lovelady's WC testimony for similar context: 

"I went over and got my lunch [in the domino room, first floor] and went upstairs and got a coke and come on back down ... I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, 'Well, I'll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps,' so I went there .... Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me--"

(Mr. Ball interrupted at that point and that last thought was never completed.)

~ ~ ~

Agree on Bart Kamp. His "Prayer Man" website is a goldmine of detailed research and primary documents. http://www.prayer-man.com. 

~ ~ ~

EDIT ADDED: I thought it was clear from posting Brian Doyle's link and audio above that that was crediting the source from which I quoted, but this was an interview Doyle obtained and deserves credit. The possible interpretation I offered above--very speculative--of several quotes of Rosa Daniel in that interview was my own solely based on several of Rosa Daniel's quotes, and differs from Doyle's interpretation reflected in the interview and in the print article of Gilbride of the second link. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Greg Doudna

[Andrej Stancak]

There cannot be any doubts about the authenticity of Hosty's statement regarding Oswald going out to watch the "P parade". The narrative containing this statement was written on a sheet of paper used by the Dallas Police to take affidavits from witnesses. Hosty in his book "Assignment Oswald" confirmed that he grabbed such a sheet from Fritz's desk at the start of the interrogation session at 3.15PM, November 22. Hosty notes on Oswald's whereabouts, discovered by Bart Kamp, match Hosty's own book exactly except the small detail about going out to watch the "P. parade".  Briefly, the notes and the book say that Oswald was eating his lunch in the first floor lunchroom during the time when the motorcade passed the building.

It is possible that Lee Oswald heard the excitement and the crowd noise when the motorcade approached Dealey Plaza and began turning onto Houston street. 

I made a time reconstruction of Lee's trajectory starting in Domino room and ending in the doorway which can be found here (my post dated August 29, 2020):

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22247-prayer-man-is-a-man/page/14/

This time reconstruction allows Lee to leave Domino room within a 9-second window starting 3 seconds after the motorcade turned onto Houston street and still be filmed by Wiegman as standing in the doorway. Thus, it appears that Lee walked out to watch "P. parade" but he came in to the doorway only around the time of the third shot or even a moment later. 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Andrej Stancak

[Andrej Stancak]

Mr. Frazier will never tell the full truth about the events he witnessed during the assassination Friday. I read his autobiography book and watched or listened to perhaps all his interviews he made over the long period of time since that fateful Friday, November 22, 1963.

Mr. Frazier still experiences symptoms of postraumatic stress disorder which he seems to have developed based on the hardship he sustained as a child, especially the abuse from his stepfarther, and triggered by his situation on that Friday. The symptoms of PTSD include lapses in memory, often very selective and related to the stressful event, avoiding conversations on the topic, and emotional distress experienced when recalling the events. Mr. Frazier has manifested all of these symtoms. The life threatening event was the interrogation at the Dallas police headquarters which threatened to make him an accomplice to the assassination by his assocation with Lee Oswald.

Mr. Frazier may genuinly not remember that he had briefly seen Lee in the doorway even if Lee was there, less than 3 feet away from him.

 

 

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

There cannot be any doubts about the authenticity of Hosty's statement regarding Oswald going out to watch the "P parade". The narrative containing this statement was written on a sheet of paper used by the Dallas Police to take affidavits from witnesses. Hosty in his book "Assignement Oswald" confirmed that he grabbed such a sheet from Fritz's desk at the start of the interrogation session at 3.15PM, November 22. Hosty notes on Oswald's whereabouts, discovered by Bart Kamp, match Hosty's own book exactly except the small detail about going out to watch the "P. parade".  Briefly, the notes and the book say that Oswald was eating his lunch in the first floor lunchroom during the time when the motorcade passed the building.

It is possible that Lee Oswald heard the excitement and the crowd noise when the motorcade approcahed Dealey Plaza and began turning onto Houston street. 

I made a time reconstruction of Lee's trajectory starting in Domino room and ending in the doorway which can be found here (my post dated August 29, 2020):

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22247-prayer-man-is-a-man/page/14/

This time reconstruction allows Lee to leave Domino room within a 9-second window starting 3 seconds after the motorcade turned onto Houston street and still be filmed by Wiegman as standing in the doorway. Thus, it appears that Lee walked out to watch "P. parade" but he came in to the doorway only around the time of the third shot or even a moment later. 

 

Oh my. The paper discovered by Kamp was not Hosty's notes from the first interview, it was a draft of a report prepared sometime afterward. In Assignment Oswald Hosty says he grabbed a piece of paper and wrote down the time. He even presents this paper in his book. It has 3:15 written at the top of the page. The draft, however, has a sentence reading "On 11/22 at 3:15" blah blah blah. That's not what Hosty said he wrote. There is also the additional problem of the draft having complete sentences. That's not how one takes notes.

In his WC testimony, Hosty was asked why the FBI didn't retain their notes. And he answered by asserting that reports are more valuable than notes. 

Mr. STERN. Did you give any consideration to retaining the notes in view of the turn that the case had taken? 
Mr. HOSTY. No. 
Mr. STERN. The intervening assassination? 
Mr. HOSTY. No; because this is the record and the notes would not be as good as this record, because the notes are not written out fully as this is. It would just be abbreviations and things of that type. 

 

[Andrej Stancak]

4 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh my. The paper discovered by Kamp was not Hosty's notes from the first interview, it was a draft of a report prepared sometime afterward. In Assignment Oswald Hosty says he grabbed a piece of paper and wrote down the time. He even presents this paper in his book. It has 3:15 written at the top of the page. The draft, however, has a sentence reading "On 11/22 at 3:15" blah blah blah. That's not what Hosty said he wrote. There is also the additional problem of the draft having complete sentences. That's not how one takes notes.

In his WC testimony, Hosty was asked why the FBI didn't retain their notes. And he answered by asserting that reports are more valuable than notes. 

Mr. STERN. Did you give any consideration to retaining the notes in view of the turn that the case had taken? 
Mr. HOSTY. No. 
Mr. STERN. The intervening assassination? 
Mr. HOSTY. No; because this is the record and the notes would not be as good as this record, because the notes are not written out fully as this is. It would just be abbreviations and things of that type. 

 

The point of my post was that Hosty's statement written not on any sheet of paper but on a sheet he admitted to have taken in Fritz's office was authentic. Whether Hosty scribbled his notes on this sheet of paper while in Fritz's office or transcribed them moments after the interrogation session on this sheet of paper is tangential to the question of whether Lee Oswald told them during the 3.15 PM session that he went out to watch the P. parade. 

The other point I developed in my post was that it was possible for Lee Oswald to respond to the noise of the crowd he heard while sitting in Domino room and move toward the front of the building and into the doorway in time to be filmed by Dave Wiegman. That would be the scenario that Agent Hosty described in his hand-written notes bearing the DPD affiliation. 

[Barry Keane]

13 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Bart Kamp is an invaluable researcher.

What he and Malcolm Blunt have done with the declassified files should be saluted. And they do it from Europe.

Sorry he is not here anymore.

They are both, in their own ways, a credit to Dealey Plaza UK and JFK Research in general. They are tenacious and have worked tirelessly to find the truth. Malcolm is incomparable and Bart, although many find his conclusions controversial, is none the less a breath of fresh air. I am privileged to call them friends. 

[Pete Mellor]

20 minutes ago, Barry Keane said:

They are both, in their own ways, a credit to Dealey Plaza UK and JFK Research in general. They are tenacious and have worked tirelessly to find the truth. Malcolm is incomparable and Bart, although many find his conclusions controversial, is none the less a breath of fresh air. I am privileged to call them friends. 

Yeah, and I second that emotion.

[Roger Odisio]

Yes, Andrej, the authenticity of the note is a point I was trying to make as well.  Pat acknowleges that  Hosty wrote it.  But he demurs as to *when*.  Instead he says "then went outside to watch P Parade" was written sometime after the initial interrogation.  You say the when, which signifies a short passage of time, is tangential to the question of what Oswald told them.  I would go further.  It's irrelevant unless some argument can be made that Hosty's memory was somehow blurred in the interim.  But we're talking about the murder of the President and the interrogation of the main suspect.

I find the point about full sentences in the original notes no more convincing.  Hosty was the only one taking  notes at that session.  It's likely others would rely on them later. That alone could have motivated Hosty to write more completely.  As well as sharpened his focus on the details.  And the "sentence" in question contains only 7 words, no subject, and Presidential is a abbreviated with a P.

Thirty years ago Vince Salandria cautioned against getting mired in minutia when you know the broad outlines of what happened, need to develop that further, and maybe even do something about it.  This thread is an example of that.  There is disagreement among Pat, Andrej, and me about whether Oswald was on the steps or somewhere else on the first floor.  But not about the main point: *he was not on the 6th floor shooting JFK*.

Perhaps Darnell or Wiegman (Andrej:  you don't mention Darnell.  Is there a reason for that?) can someday answer exactly where Oswald was or wasn't.  Every effort should be made there.  That's what is important.