Dealey Plaza

[Jamey Flanagan]

Well y'all, I'm finally gonna fulfill my lifelong dream and get to visit Dealey Plaza! I'm pretty excited!!! I'm 44 and I've been studying the assassination since I was about 11 or so. We're visiting relatives who live near Houston but we are gonna make a detour one of the days we are there and my wife and her friends are gonna go shopping or something while I spend the day at the plaza. 

 

[Cory Santos]

Watch out for hustlers.    Make sure to walk to overpass.   Make sure to Check out the gift store across the street from the depository.  Check out the depository tour but I recommend you get tickets early before you go sometimes they get crowded and you can find discounts online.

[Jamey Flanagan]

6 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Watch out for hustlers.    Make sure to walk to overpass.   Make sure to Check out the gift store across the street from the depository.  Check out the depository tour but I recommend you get tickets early before you go sometimes they get crowded and you can find discounts online.

Thanks!

[David Josephs]

That's really great Jamey...  it is an amazing experience...

The walk across the RR yard where Bowers was in the tower was something....

Take a zillion photos.. you'll want to look carefully at them all.

DJ.  Yes, for more propaganda than you can shake a stick at, take the tour...  you'll start believing that maybe he really did do it... if you look at nothing else.

[Larry Hancock]

Jamey,  after having led tours there during Lancer conferences for  years I would suggest a few things  you might not think about:  1) At Bowers tower examine the lines of sight as to what he could and could not see given the number of cars that were parked up against the fence on both the extensions of the fence.  2) Go to the locations mentioned by Ed Hoffman and take a look back over the bridges considering the cars being parked and again estimate what he would and would not have been able to see, 3) Walk over the RR overpass and examine shooting angles from the bridge and the other knoll,  4) Take a look at both manholes, the one up behind the fence line at the corner of the bridge and the one down by the street and ponder what it would take to shoot from each location, 5) Stand on the sidewalk (not in the street) in the vicinity of the final head shot and visualize where JFK would have been facing at that point, you will be surprised by how much Elm Street curves by that point, 6) Start across the street from the TSBD and walk down the street away from it thinking about how much detail you can see in the windows at various distances, 7) Examine the views from the East and West sides of the TSBD and think about a shooter on the West side, especially from a window on the actual West end of the building, 8), check the views at the cornor of Elm and see how much difference there is between a view from the TSBD or from the Daltex, 9) stand on the overpass bridge in the area occupied by Sam Bowers and see what and how the things the RR workers mention line up with the report of cigarette butts and mud on a bumper line up with their remarks,  and finally, 10) reread the statement of the grounds keeper (Emmett Hudson"), the Newman's etc and take a close look at what shots heard from "behind them" actually implies.   Not to make things too busy but they are all worthwhile things to do when you are there in person.

[Jamey Flanagan]

One of the things I'm most looking forward to is standing on the Zapruder pedestal and seeing how that line of sight actually matches up to what we see in the so called Zapruder film.

[Dan Rice]

Congrats on your impending visit.  I was 10 years old when the assassination happened.  I have been fascinated about it ever since.  Last year, at the age of 67, I made the trip to Dallas which was a bucket list thing for me.  Just being in the plaza was awesome.  All things Oak Cliff (Oswald rooming house, Tippit shooting site and the Texas Theater) are very close by Dealey Plaza.

Enjoy your visit!

[Jamey Flanagan]

4 minutes ago, Dan Rice said:

Congrats on your impending visit.  I was 10 years old when the assassination happened.  I have been fascinated about it ever since.  Last year, at the age of 67, I made the trip to Dallas which was a bucket list thing for me.  Just being in the plaza was awesome.  All things Oak Cliff (Oswald rooming house, Tippit shooting site and the Texas Theater) are very close by Dealey Plaza.

Enjoy your visit!

Thanks for the kind words! I'm SUPER pumped and excited about it!

[Pete Mellor]

12 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

9) stand on the overpass bridge in the area occupied by Sam Bowers and see what and how the things the RR workers mention line up with the report of cigarette butts and mud on a bumper line up with their remarks,

Just so that once in my life I can correct Larry Hancock over a fact on the JFKA  but that's two people morphed into one, Sam Holland and Lee Bowers.

[George Govus]

14 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

One of the things I'm most looking forward to is standing on the Zapruder pedestal and seeing how that line of sight actually matches up to what we see in the so called Zapruder film.

That's great, I look forward to your report, Jamey! One thing, as you stand upon the pedestal: imagine the Stemmons Freeway sign being where it was that day, and figure out for me if the average joe wouldn't have taken a different vantage point.

Edited August 12, 2022 by George Govus
taste and concision

[Michael Davidson]

Someone needs to go there with a drone and take photos / footage of potential sniper sites - from just outside the windows of the Daltex and the buildings behind it - pointing down the street towards where the shots hit to determine if there were shooters in those locations . Amazed no one seems to have done this 

[Larry Hancock]

Well done Pete,  clearly a mental confabulation on my part...I do hope Jamey read my post though, after decades in the Plaza I thought it was worthwhile to call out things folks often miss on the standard walking tour...

 

[Joe Bauer]

Congrats.

I never made it to Dealey Plaza let alone past Flagstaff, Arizona from the California coast my entire 70 years!

Now, too old and too many health problems to do so.

The points of interest advice mentioned here sounds great and would be taken by me if I did go.

I always wanted to stand where Arnold Rowland stood to see how well he could see men with rifles in those TXSBD building 6th floor windows, especially in the noon hour when they would be fully illuminated by the mid-day sun.

Same with Carolyn Walther who stated she saw two men with guns in one of the upper floor windows although she thought it was a lower floor than the 6th.

The train traffic control tower from which Lee Bowers claimed he saw two men milling next to the picket fence would be a priority.

Also the exact spot Bill and Gayle Newman were standing when they witnessed JFK's head blown apart just feet away from them.

Same with Sam Holland, Richard Dodd and other railroad men who all claimed they saw a puff of smoke waft out over the knoll from the tree canopy covered picket fence area.

Would also love to see the inside of the TXSBD building...owned at the time by big time Texas Oil man and rabid JFK hater D.H. Byrd.

The Depository building lunch room where Dallas PD motorcycle Officer Marrion ( or Marion?) Baker confronted Lee Oswald casually sipping a soda pop would be another location visit box check.

The exact Dallas PD parking garage inside location where Jack Ruby whacked Oswald would be another.

A whimsical fantasy wish would be to somehow travel back in time and be actually sitting in Jack Ruby's Carousel Club during a typical Wah Wah trumpet plunger burlesque music late night hot action show and watching all the crazy, oversized characters doing their bawdy things in there.

Jada, Little Lynn, Wally Weston.

Jack Ruby beating the holy crap out of some poor drunken slob patron who went overboard with the stripper yelling and runway walk ankle grabbing and then violently tossing them down the stairs.

Maybe even seeing a young JFK researcher, best selling book author ( Crossfire ) Jim Marrs beer swiggin, whoopin and hollerin and actually getting up on stage to be a foil for one of the stripper's comedy routines?

Like the Beverly Oliver character in Oliver Stone's JFK movie said..."Dallas was a real swingin' place back then" and their music blaring strip joints were in the middle of this wild, wide open loose morals nightlife.

Everybody went to the Carousel to see the action. Including some Mob big shots that came into town, off duty cops, Madeline Brown, D.A. Henry Wade ...even H.L. Hunt himself?

Anyway Jamey Flanagan, have a BALL visiting Dealey Plaza young man.

Can't wait to read your account later on in the forum.

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Pat Speer]

19 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Jamey,  after having led tours there during Lancer conferences for  years I would suggest a few things  you might not think about:  1) At Bowers tower examine the lines of sight as to what he could and could not see given the number of cars that were parked up against the fence on both the extensions of the fence.  2) Go to the locations mentioned by Ed Hoffman and take a look back over the bridges considering the cars being parked and again estimate what he would and would not have been able to see, 3) Walk over the RR overpass and examine shooting angles from the bridge and the other knoll,  4) Take a look at both manholes, the one up behind the fence line at the corner of the bridge and the one down by the street and ponder what it would take to shoot from each location, 5) Stand on the sidewalk (not in the street) in the vicinity of the final head shot and visualize where JFK would have been facing at that point, you will be surprised by how much Elm Street curves by that point, 6) Start across the street from the TSBD and walk down the street away from it thinking about how much detail you can see in the windows at various distances, 7) Examine the views from the East and West sides of the TSBD and think about a shooter on the West side, especially from a window on the actual West end of the building, 8), check the views at the cornor of Elm and see how much difference there is between a view from the TSBD or from the Daltex, 9) stand on the overpass bridge in the area occupied by Sam Bowers and see what and how the things the RR workers mention line up with the report of cigarette butts and mud on a bumper line up with their remarks,  and finally, 10) reread the statement of the grounds keeper (Emmett Hudson"), the Newman's etc and take a close look at what shots heard from "behind them" actually implies.   Not to make things too busy but they are all worthwhile things to do when you are there in person.

Plus, sit in Brennan's actual position on the east side of the fountain and look up at the sixth floor window to see if you could ID the face of someone crouched down on the east side of the window. 

[Joe Bauer]

Just now, Pat Speer said:

Plus, sit in Brennan's actual position on the east side of the fountain and look up at the sixth floor window to see if you could ID the face of someone crouched down on the east side of the window. 

For sure.