Dealey Plaza

[Jamey Flanagan]

Y'all, I could literally spend a week or more in Dallas just investigating the assassination, lol, but unfortunately I'm only gonna have one day! 😔 And I'm quite sure my wife and her friends are gonna be ready to head back before I am so I won't have very much time in Dealey Plaza. I would love to take the tour at the sixth floor museum but I've heard it was pretty pricey these days and I'm not sure I wanna just waste that kinda money just to hear the same old BS "official story" nonsense! However, I really would like to see for myself just how far it is from the window to the stairwell and down to the second floor break room. At work we have to go up a stairwell to get to the locker room and showers and everytime I go up to change my coveralls when I come back down I always think about Oswald (even though I know he wasn't running down any stairs that day!) as I'm jogging down those steps, lol! In my limited time there I definitely will be climbing up on the Zapruder pedestal, going behind the grassy knoll fence, seeing exactly how close to the limo people like the Newmans we're, eyeballing angles from the depository, the Dal-Tex, and County Records rooftop amongst other suspected locations for assassins. 

[Richard Price]

3 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Plus, sit in Brennan's actual position on the east side of the fountain and look up at the sixth floor window to see if you could ID the face of someone crouched down on the east side of the window.

Not to combative.  I know I am in the extreme minority on this, but...  If you have 20/20 vision or better (which unfortunately I do not anymore) look across at the 6th floor easternmost window of the Dal-Tex (the RED BRICK building where Brennan said he saw the gunman).  In his deposition he said "standing" not "crouching".

[Jamey Flanagan]

Yeah @Richard Price my vision is not the greatest anymore either, lol! I don't wear glasses or anything but that's just because I haven't had my eyes checked since I started working at my current job over 15 years ago! But even at that time my vision wasn't the best from far away. I don't have any trouble seeing or reading signs and such within a few feet of me but the farther away things are like billboards and such I just can't read them and if I do understand what they say it's just using deductive reasoning and putting two and two together, lol! My wife is exactly the opposite! She has to hold her cellphone away from her to read it but she sees things farther away and has no trouble at all reading them.

[Ron Bulman]

16 minutes ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

Y'all, I could literally spend a week or more in Dallas just investigating the assassination, lol, but unfortunately I'm only gonna have one day! 😔 And I'm quite sure my wife and her friends are gonna be ready to head back before I am so I won't have very much time in Dealey Plaza. I would love to take the tour at the sixth floor museum but I've heard it was pretty pricey these days and I'm not sure I wanna just waste that kinda money just to hear the same old BS "official story" nonsense! However, I really would like to see for myself just how far it is from the window to the stairwell and down to the second floor break room. At work we have to go up a stairwell to get to the locker room and showers and everytime I go up to change my coveralls when I come back down I always think about Oswald (even though I know he wasn't running down any stairs that day!) as I'm jogging down those steps, lol! In my limited time there I definitely will be climbing up on the Zapruder pedestal, going behind the grassy knoll fence, seeing exactly how close to the limo people like the Newmans we're, eyeballing angles from the depository, the Dal-Tex, and County Records rooftop amongst other suspected locations for assassins. 

You can't go down the stairwell.  If I remember right the freight elevator is fixed in place there, with the gate down.  You do get to sign a guest book.  Where I simply wrote "Oswald didn't do it".

[Richard Price]

1 hour ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

Yeah @Richard Price my vision is not the greatest anymore either, lol! I don't wear glasses or anything but that's just because I haven't had my eyes checked since I started working at my current job over 15 years ago! But even at that time my vision wasn't the best from far away. I don't have any trouble seeing or reading signs and such within a few feet of me but the farther away things are like billboards and such I just can't read them and if I do understand what they say it's just using deductive reasoning and putting two and two together, lol! My wife is exactly the opposite! She has to hold her cellphone away from her to read it but she sees things farther away and has no trouble at all reading them.

Jamey, we have much in common then.  My wife uses a magnifying glass to read almost anything including her phone (which is one of the largest screens available).  I wish you well on your trip and wish I could also find my way there.  I am older (66 going on 67) than you and have been wanting to go for decades, but work, finances, family, etc. always got in the way.  There is still a chance, but at least nowadays many visuals are available online to at least reference and feel like I'm there.  Best of luck and I hope you get to see everything you can get access to.

[Chris Bristow]

It would be interesting to stand on each X, drop down to JFK's head level then video  360 degrees around the X.  It would test all the lines of sight to JFK from pretty much all the theorized shooter locations. You may need to do it twice for a higher view(6th floor) and lower angle(the storm drains).

[Jamey Flanagan]

@Richard Price thanks brother! Once again we are in the same boat! Finances, work, family and the like has also kept me from going. I wanted to go SO bad in 2013 for the 50th anniversary! My Dad had lived in Houston for awhile and had been a truck driver for many years so he was familiar with Texas and liked driving (I do not, lol!). I asked him to go with me back then and if he'd drive I'd pay for everything for us to go but he didn't want to. Unfortunately his health was apparently much worse than he let on and he passed away in April of 2016 unexpectedly. My wife has been saying that she was gonna take me but we just could never afford it. We barely can now, lol! Hopefully some day you'll get to go to!

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, Richard Price said:

Not to combative.  I know I am in the extreme minority on this, but...  If you have 20/20 vision or better (which unfortunately I do not anymore) look across at the 6th floor easternmost window of the Dal-Tex (the RED BRICK building where Brennan said he saw the gunman).  In his deposition he said "standing" not "crouching".

Brennan did not say he saw a gunman in the Dal-Tex Building. Not on 11-22-63. Not ever. Here is his original statement.

From patspeer.com. Chapter 7b;

Howard Brennan was, as shown above, sitting on the Houston side of the wall encircling the fountain at Houston and Elm. He can be seen in the Zapruder and Bell films wearing a hard hat. (11-22-63 statement to the Dallas Sheriff’s Department, 19H470) “ I was sitting on a ledge or wall near the intersection of Houston Street and Elm Street near the red light pole. I was facing in a northerly direction looking across the street from where I was sitting. I take this building across the street to be about 7 stories anyway in the east end of the building and the second row of windows from the top I saw a man in this window. I had seen him before the President's car arrived. He was just sitting up there looking down apparently waiting for the same thing I was to see the President. I did not notice anything unusual about this man. He was a white man in his early 30's, slender, nice looking, slender and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but definately not a suit. I proceeded to watch the President's car as it turned left at the corner where I was and about 50 yards from the intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say the President's back was in line with the last windows I have previously described I heard what I thought was a back fire."

 

The key is that Brennan looked north and saw a man at the east end of a building, and that Kennedy's back was turned to this man when the first shot rang out.

This rules out the Dal-Tex. The east end of the Dal-Tex would have been to the east of Brennan, not north, and a shot from this location would not have been in line with the limo when the first shot was fired. 

Of course, there's also the matter of Brennan's pointing out the SN window in the TSBD within moments of the shooting. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Richard Price]

21 minutes ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

My Dad had lived in Houston for awhile and had been a truck driver for many years so he was familiar with Texas and liked driving (I do not, lol!).

I'll let it go at this, we have even more in common.  My father was a truck driver/taxi driver for many years, loved driving and taught me much about safety on the roads.  I, like you do not like driving (particularly long distances and unknown places) probably more so of late with my sight not being what it once was.  Have a great time and enjoy every second!  Hope to hear from you on the forum upon return.  Take care, brother.

[Ron Bulman]

If I can add a bit to what Larry, DJ, Pat and others suggest about your visit.

First, I've mixed emotions about the museum.  It is $18 now.  In a sense everyone should see it.  Standing next to the window the official story says Oswald shot from looking down gives one thought. Tough shot given the angle at a (slightly) moving target, with a junk gun, for me.  Several interesting exhibits.  While I don't recall the possibility of a conspiracy being mentioned.  On the other hand, while it overall leans to Oswald acted alone, I don't remember them pounding in Ozzie was a Commie or the Warren Commission proved it.  If you've got say five hours it should take about one.  The earlier the better.  If you don't do it, you may always wonder if it's potentially a one-time visit. 

Zapruder's view is interesting.  

Your highest priority should be the view from behind the pictket fence on the grassy knoll.  At the x's, if there still there.  I'm convinced JFK was shot from here, in addition to other locations. Then turn around and observe the railroad control tower from which Lee Bowers observed a flash of light near the picket fence.  I did a zoomed in and out photo from here, then walked over to the tower and did the reverse.

The gift store across the street Cory mentions is important.  Across from the TSBD east of it, across Houston on Elm That's the Dal-Tex building.  Were, you can in essence look at the view from the broom closet/Altgen's photo of the open window by the (then) fire escape.

Note the Bronze the plaque on the East side of the TSBD stating "Alleged Assassin", underscored by others. If it's still there

See the view from Sam Holland's perspective on the railroad bridge.  Walk on across for the view from the South Knoll.  Maybe on up to Houston and Commerce where Ruby witnessed it from, and Holmes, with binoculars.  On to Houston and Main, imagine the parade coming down Main, turning on Houston.

 

[Cory Santos]

Don’t know about anyone else but walking on the overpass I got the strangest chill.   I’m not someone to feel that way.  The more across it I went the more of a chill.   Just saying….  
You might bring a video camera so you can have a video as opposed to just pictures.  

Edited August 13, 2022 by Cory Santos

[Jamey Flanagan]

I'm correct in saying that the third X, that is supposed to be the head shot (according to the "official account") is in the wrong spot, right? I'm thinking the actual spot was just a little bit before that X. Or was it a little bit after it? I know I have read this, heard this, and seen this many times 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Jamey Flanagan

[Dan Rice]

11 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Your highest priority should be the view from behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll.  At the x's, if there still there.  

Note the Bronze the plaque on the East side of the TSBD stating "Alleged Assassin", underscored by others. If it's still there

 

As of last year, both of the above are still there.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Dan Rice

[Joe Bauer]

10 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Don’t know about anyone else but walking on the overpass I got the strangest chill.   I’m not someone to feel that way.  The more across it I went the more of a chill.   Just saying….  
You might bring a video camera so you can have a video as opposed to just pictures.  

Cory...any guesses as to why you felt such a chill at that one particular location?

Sounds like a paranormal experience.

I think I would get a chill standing about where Mary Moorman stood and being completely still for minutes just scanning the entire plaza from the TXSBD building, down along Elm and the grassy knoll to the overpass and imagining the entire shooting scene in my mind as I did so.

Trying to re-feel the almost unreal super charged powerful shock, sadness and deep loss past energy of that one earth shattering and reality changing moment in time.

That weird Greek/Roman style Pergola, ( so different than what would think in Dallas, Texas ) eerily glowing white like some Freudian JFK mausoleum symbol in a surreal Hitchcockian movie dream ( Spellbound - Vertigo?) always comes to my mind when I imagine that historic place.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Sean Coleman]

2 hours ago, Dan Rice said:

As of last year, both of the above are still there.

Wow. A lot of historic waffle then a paragraph at the end - almost an afterthought but the main reason the plaque is there?

Fantastic! But totally wouldn’t have expected ‘allegedly’ to have been included in the script….god bless the Texas Historical Commission.

ps. Green with envy Jamey, green with envy.