PrayerPerson ???

[Denis Morissette]

The image name is Darnell Library. Why Library? The 6FM library?

[Andrej Stancak]

2 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

If someone could get the cleaned up images to Buell Frazier quick smart perhaps he may recognise this woman,  she looks like she belongs mixed in with other workers from the TSBD on that landing. Maybe she worked there and he might put a name to the image.

 

Adam:

do you mean the alleged woman which the fake image brough by Chris appears to show, or do you mean the male figure seen in the original Darnell still? Or do you refer to the coloured photograph showing two ladies in the company of police officers, also brought up by Chris?

Edited September 11, 2022 by Andrej Stancak

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Adam:

do you mean the alleged woman which the fake image brough by Chris appears to show, or do you mean the male figure seen in the original Darnell still? Or do you refer to the coloured photograph showing two ladies in the company of police officers, also brought up by Chris?

Yikes. The two Darnell images are the same image but of different quality and put through different filters. Neither one shows what is clearly a man or a woman. But the image in the colored film, taken a few minutes later, and showing someone standing in the same place as "Prayer Person", is of a woman. The question then becomes if we can identify this person, and determine if this person was somewhere else at the time of the shooting. If not, well, we may have our "Prayer Person". 

[Gerry Down]

5 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

I have always believed prayerman was actually prayer woman...the clothing, the jewellery on right wrist and a possible broach worn on left upper chest. I speculated that the person was holding a small 1960's transistor radio, but these images seem to 99.9% look like a camera.

So I'm sure arguments will follow, but perhaps we can all accept this as a woman,  then move on to other efforts.

A.J

Could be a radio listening to coverage of the motorcade. That would explain why she is constantly holding it out in front of her. Norman and Jarmin were standing on the sidewalk out to the right of prayer person. Norman testified that they stayed there until they got word that the motorcade was on Main street, then they went around to the back. I wonder if it was prayer person's radio from which they heard that the motorcade was on Main street.

[Chris Davidson]

23 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2359.msg72598.html#msg72598

A few more that might work unless either is the same from the original posting.

[Andrej Stancak]

36 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

The two Darnell images are the same image but of different quality and put through different filters.

Pat:

this is not correct. The one on the left is the untouched, original image showing a person having male characteristics. It has not been filtered or adjusted in any way. The image on the right is an image which popped up basically now, and it shows clear signs of manipulation. This image should be ignored and treating it as of the same value as the original Darnell still is a travesty.

The coloured photograph shows two women, however, neither could be Prayer Man as that person was 5' 9'', had a male type of hair, and wore a worker type of shirt. I cannot understand the logic which says that if there is a woman in the doorway some 20-30 minutes after shooting, that woman should be  considered as Prayer Man.

Your comment says a lot about your attitudes toward the possibility that Prayer Man was Lee Oswald, but it has no substance, I am afraid.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Andrej Stancak

[Andrej Stancak]

11 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Posting by Alan:

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2639.msg136766.html#msg136766

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2639.msg136766.html#msg136766

Chris:

I am not a member of that Forum, and if I click on your links, a log in screen pops up. What did Alan say about the provenance of his Darnell still?

[Chris Davidson]

It's sleep time.

[Andrej Stancak]

16 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

It's sleep time.

I can only reiterate that using images with no traceable history floating on internet for serious research is a big risk. 

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Pat:

this is not correct. The one on the left is the untouched, original image showing a person having male characteristics. It has not been filtered or adjusted in any way. The image on the right is an image which popped up basically now, and it shows clear signs of manipulation. This image should be ignored and treating it as of the same value as the original Darnell still is a travesty.

The coloured photograph shows two women, however, neither could be Prayer Man as that person was 5' 9'', had a male type of hair, and wore a worker type of shirt. I cannot understand the logic which says that if there is a woman in the doorway some 20-30 minutes after shooting, that woman should be  considered as Prayer Man.

Your comment says a lot about your attitudes toward the possibility that Prayer Man was Lee Oswald, but it has no substance, I am afraid.

You have convinced yourself there is a significant difference between the two Darnells, when there is not. Neither of them is clearly male or female. As for your rejection the woman is "Prayer Man", you may be right, seeing as a significant amount of time had passed between the images. But your assertion the Prayer Man figure is 5'9' is not accurate. It was established some years back that the figure was much shorter than Oswald. As I recall you countered that the figure appeared shorter because he was standing with one leg on the step. So, no, your studies confirmed that the figure is not 5'9" and your rejecting that the woman in the later image could be the same person is just desperate. 

As far as what I wrote, it is true. If the woman in the color image can be identified, and she can not be found in any image taken during the shooting, then it follows like night from day that she might be "Prayer Person". 

 

[Andrej Stancak]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

So, no, your studies confirmed that the figure is not 5'9"

I am afraid that you are misinterpreting my research. My studies did confirm that the person is 5'9 5/8''. Prayer Man could only be 5' 2 1/2'' if he stood with both feet on the top landing or 5' 9 5/8'' if he stood straight with his right foot on the step below the top landing. The former possibility had to be discarded because: 1) the short person (5' 2 1/2'') would have his/her arms about 2 inches higher than a taller person (5' 9 5/8'') standing with one foot on the step below the top landing, 2) the right elbow of that person would be too far from the red brick column on the western wall. 3) the figure of a person 5' 2 1/2'' standing on the top landing would appear tiny and would not fit Prayer Man's figure.

The doorway is a physical object, a space, of known dimensions, and it therefore can be reproduced in a digital model exactly as it was in 1963. Therefore, it is possible to check the locations and sizes of individual doorway occupants and test if they would match a historic photograph satisfactorily. A small deviation in size or location of a candidate person results in a mismatch between  historic picture and the projected model. It would be difficult to test the locations of Prayer Man or other people without a 3D model because it is almost impossible to check just visually or in own imagination the details such as distances of one person from other people or the distribution of shadows. Only thanks to the 3D model was it possible to see that a person 5'2 1/2'' standing on the top landing could not be a good fit for Prayer Man in spite of the top of that person's head matching Prayer Man's head correctly. 

I hope this helps.

Late edit: I have corrected the fractions in height values to match my original posts in "Prayer Man is a Man" thread. 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Andrej Stancak

[Andrej Stancak]

I spent a bit of time analysing the picture that Chris has posted at the start of this thread. The picture showing pink-dressed lady is Willis #21. I made a cropped view and enhanced the contrast in the picture below. The picture shows Willis #21 doorway next to Darnell doorway. Both doorways are aligned in such a way that the top left corners of the doorway, the horizontal bar on the aluminum door, and the level of the top in both pictures match. The yellow lines serve to check the alignment. 

The purple line crosses the top of Prayer Man's head. I may be wrong but it seems to me that the pink-dressed lady is a bit too short to match Prayer Man's figure. This difference is beyond further disparities between this lady and Prayer Man such as the light colour of her garment and light-coloured female hair not seen on Prayer Man.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Andrej Stancak

[Paul Bacon]

1 hour ago, Andrej Stancak said:

I may be wrong but it seems to me that the pink-dressed lady is a bit too short to match Prayer Man's figure.

Andrej, I just want to make sure we're all talking about the same figure here.  The figure everyone's talking about is the figure between pink-dressed lady and the cop in front of her.  This figure would be on the inside of the glass doorway assembly.  We all agree with this, right?  Or am I wrong?

BTW, I agree with you that the Darnell still is different than the still photo Alan Ford posted--particularly the angle of the arm holding something in front...

Edited September 11, 2022 by Paul Bacon
correct spelling

[Denis Morissette]

Screenshot of a 6FM interview with Pierce Allman. 

[Denis Morissette]