Exposing the FPCC part 3

[James DiEugenio]

Kerry Thornley was a xxxx, pure and simple, and also a perjurer.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/kerry-thornley-a-new-look-part-1

Edited September 23, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

Add on to Martin Waldron:

Jefferson Morley, formerly of WaPo, quit the paper as he could not pursue the JFKA.

So, the two most powerful newspapers of the era, the NYT and or WaPo, mostly put the kibosh on JFKA reporting--or worse, in treating JFKA researchers as outcasts or conspiracy nuts. 

Congrats to Bleau for unearthing that comment from Waldron. A reminder what so many earnest JFKA researchers have gone through. 

Re: Thornley is another of WC's prize witnesses, quoted at extreme length in the WC report. 

A reminder: When you see a government investigation fete a prize witness...be skeptical. 

 

 

 

 

[Steve Roe]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:31 PM, Matt Allison said:

I can't get at my books right now, but I seem to remember the first paperback version of Summers' book Conspiracy, circa 1990, having a picture of one of the flyers with the 544 Camp address.

It's not in the 1989 Summers' book Conspiracy. Summers does correctly mention the "FPCC, 544 Camp Street" was stamped in the Corliss Lamont "The Crime Against Cuba" pamphlet at the end of the text, page 286. 

[Steve Roe]

On 9/22/2022 at 7:20 AM, David Boylan said:

His other pamphlet.

 

Let's get the terminology correct David. This photo is a "Leaflet" also known as a flyer/handbill. It's a single page handout. A Pamphlet is a booklet. When Oswald was booked with the picketing incident by the New Orleans Police, he had the Pamphlet by Corliss Lamont (The Crime Against Cuba) pamphlet confiscated. That pamphlet had the "FPCC, 544 Camp Street" stamped at the end of the pamphlet text. There are no leaflets/flyers/handbills with the 544 Camp Street. Mr. DiEugenio is using a phony JFK movie prop.

Compare the stamp on your leaflet photo with DiEugenio's so-called flyer. It's significantly different and an obvious fake.

I challenge anyone to come up with the fake DiEugenio prop in the record, NARA or wherever pre-1991 (JFK movie).

Edited September 24, 2022 by Steve Roe
Correct grammar

[David Boylan]

Carlos Quiroga's Grand Jury testimony - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1204#relPageId=35

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by David Boylan

[Stu Wexler]

Is there evidence that the FBI talked to him about it? Is it documented?

[Tom Gram]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:21 AM, Steve Roe said:

Another important item you and Bleau apparently do not address was Oswald handing out pamphlets in Dallas. In fact, he ordered more pamphlets while in Dallas. Of course, this doesn't square with your FPCC Banister-Oswald-Shaw-Core fantasy.  

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=531

 

Hypothetically, if Oswald was a low level intelligence asset assigned to smear the the FPCC in a propaganda operation that involved opening a fake local chapter, how would that have worked in the real world? 

1. Oswald would receive instruction to ramp up his efforts to establish credentials with the FPCC and obtain literature to copy and distribute. 
2. A location would be selected, preferably with a large Cuban exile population so that Oswald’s efforts would have maximum impact. 
3. Oswald would be directed to move to that location and link up with local contacts who would manage the operation and execute the plan. 

Oswald wrote to the FPCC in mid-April ‘63 requesting literature to distribute, and claiming that he had stood around Dallas with a placard around his neck saying “Viva Fidel”. There is zero evidence this ever happened other than a report from a cop from after the assassination who claimed he suddenly remembered the incident (after the “Viva Fidel” letter became public), and saw Oswald flee into a gun shop that coincidentally sold Carcanos. The cop told the press in Dec ‘63 that he’d been tipped off about the picketer by a reporter - but no effort was ever made to locate this reporter, and incredibly, the cop was not interviewed by the FBI until April ‘64. Hosty testified words to the effect that if the picketing incident really  happened, the Dallas Field Office would have certainly heard about it. 

Oswald’s letter to the FPCC was intercepted by an informant in New York, likely someone embedded in FPCC HQ. This informant told the NY Field Office about the letter on 4/21/63. 

Here’s the interesting part. New York did not (officially) inform Dallas about this letter until 6/27/63, an over two month delay. Other informants in New York had reported on letters Oswald sent to the SWP and CPUSA in Fall ‘62 and Dallas was informed of these letters within a week or two at most. New York also informed New Orleans of letters Oswald sent to CPUSA in June/July within about a week - so why the massive delay on the FPCC letter? 

FBI Chief Inspector James H. Gale looked into this after the assassination, concluded that there was no valid excuse for the suspiciously long delay and reprimanded the agents involved from the New York Office. 

What was the effect of the delay? The FPCC letter had a return address of P.O. Box 2915, and if Dallas had (officially) known that address (the official story on this is incredible, discussed in the Rifle/Neely St. thread) Hosty would have been able to track Oswald to New Orleans and Oswald’s late May letters to V.T. Lee (which were incredibly not intercepted/reported) would have almost certainly been seen as well. 

Also, if the FBI had (officially) known about Oswald’s alleged Dallas picketing incident and contacts with the FPCC he would have been very closely monitored, and the incident would have been thoroughly investigated.

Instead, Oswald was allowed to move to New Orleans and establish his phony FPCC chapter with zero scrutiny from the FBI, and run around with a bunch of anti-Castroites while pretending to be pro-Castro and get away with it. 

You are making it sound like Jim is claiming that Oswald moved to New Orleans on his own initiative and was subsequently recruited to act against the FPCC by Banister et al. - but that’s not what’s being proposed at all. Oswald moved to New Orleans not two weeks after this alleged and likely bogus Dallas picketing incident. The act of establishing credentials and requesting literature to copy squares perfectly with the idea of a start-up propaganda operation, and it’s not like Oswald didn’t know how to use a telephone.

EDIT: No idea why my font is so huge

Edited September 24, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Steve Roe]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

Hypothetically, if Oswald was a low level intelligence asset assigned to smear the the FPCC in a propaganda operation that involved opening a fake local chapter, how would that have worked in the real world? 

1. Oswald would receive instruction to ramp up his efforts to establish credentials with the FPCC and obtain literature to copy and distribute. 
2. A location would be selected, preferably with a large Cuban exile population so that Oswald’s efforts would have maximum impact. 
3. Oswald would be directed to move to that location and link up with local contacts who would manage the operation and execute the plan. 

Oswald wrote to the FPCC in mid-April ‘63 requesting literature to distribute, and claiming that he had stood around Dallas with a placard around his neck saying “Viva Fidel”. There is zero evidence this ever happened other than a report from a cop from after the assassination who claimed he suddenly remembered the incident (after the “Viva Fidel” letter became public), and saw Oswald flee into a gun shop that coincidentally sold Carcanos. The cop told the press in Dec ‘63 that he’d been tipped off about the picketer by a reporter - but no effort was ever made to locate this reporter, and incredibly, the cop was not interviewed by the FBI until April ‘64. Hosty testified words to the effect that if the picketing incident really  happened, the Dallas Field Office would have certainly heard about it. 

Read VT Lee #1 again. Oswald admits he did wear a placard around his neck with strangely enough what Sgt. Harkness and W.R. Finegan described "Hands off Cuba". Also, a US Commissioner had witnessed it and complained to Harkness I believe. So, you got three independent accounts that the incident took place in front of the H.L. Green Department store on Main/Ervay. Now, nobody had an idea who Oswald was. He ran into the H.L. Green store, and they didn't pursue him. Just a nuisance call. 

Oswald’s letter to the FPCC was intercepted by an informant in New York, likely someone embedded in FPCC HQ. This informant told the NY Field Office about the letter on 4/21/63.

OK, Yes

Here’s the interesting part. New York did not (officially) inform Dallas about this letter until 6/27/63, an over two month delay. Other informants in New York had reported on letters Oswald sent to the SWP and CPUSA in Fall ‘62 and Dallas was informed of these letters within a week or two at most. New York also informed New Orleans of letters Oswald sent to CPUSA in June/July within about a week - so why the massive delay on the FPCC letter? 

Is this supposed to be sinister? 

FBI Chief Inspector James H. Gale looked into this after the assassination, concluded that there was no valid excuse for the suspiciously long delay and reprimanded the agents involved from the New York Office. 

What was the effect of the delay? The FPCC letter had a return address of P.O. Box 2915, and if Dallas had (officially) known that address (the official story on this is incredible, discussed in the Rifle/Neely St. thread) Hosty would have been able to track Oswald to New Orleans and Oswald’s late May letters to V.T. Lee (which were incredibly not intercepted/reported) would have almost certainly been seen as well. 

Tom, this is Pretzel Logic. Nobody knew about the Carcano Rifle till Oswald shot the President. Oswald got away with taking that shot at General Walker. There was no reason to investigate him for anything other than Hosty's routine check on Oswald's whereabouts. 

Also, if the FBI had (officially) known about Oswald’s alleged Dallas picketing incident and contacts with the FPCC he would have been very closely monitored, and the incident would have been thoroughly investigated.

Again, nobody knew it was Oswald. The man ran into the store and wasn't pursued.

Instead, Oswald was allowed to move to New Orleans and establish his phony FPCC chapter with zero scrutiny from the FBI, and run around with a bunch of anti-Castroites while pretending to be pro-Castro and get away with it. 

You are making it sound like Jim is claiming that Oswald moved to New Orleans on his own initiative and was subsequently recruited to act against the FPCC by Banister et al. - but that’s not what’s being proposed at all. Oswald moved to New Orleans not two weeks after this alleged and likely bogus Dallas picketing incident. The act of establishing credentials and requesting literature to copy squares perfectly with the idea of a start-up propaganda operation, and it’s not like Oswald didn’t know how to use a telephone.

Tom, no Oswald wasn't recruited in some sort of FPCC smear campaign, that's just crazy. Oswald was writing to FPCC as early as late summer 1962 while in Fort Worth. You really need to research this better because it doesn't square with Mr. DiEugenio's assertion that Banister was using Oswald for this crazy operation. You tell me, would Banister tell Oswald to go out and picket the U.S.S. Wasp fleet harbored in New Orleans.....for what??? Turn in all the Commie Sympathizing Sailors? You know why he picketed the Wasp, because the Wasp was part of the Cuban blockade fleet. Also, Oswald most likely picketed in front of the ITM because what??? Take a guess....how about trade with Cuba that was cut off.  It had absolutely nothing to do with Clay Shaw. 

Again, the Dallas picketing incident is not bogus Tom. I give the reasons above. 

EDIT: No idea why my font is so huge

Tom your font is fine, and it makes it easier to read

[Bill Brown]

On 9/21/2022 at 10:21 AM, Steve Roe said:

Mr. DiEugenio, Shaw and Core were not aware of what Banister was doing. That's a complete myth. In fact, Jesse Core called the FBI and reported Oswald's picketing. So how do you explain that? 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10477#relPageId=696&search="Jesse_Core"

Also Mr. Bleau, as well as yourself, repeat the nonsense about Oswald's leaflets stamped with "544 Camp Street". The cold hard facts are only the Corliss Lamont pamphlets had the 544 Camp Street stamped, not the leaflets. The leaflets had Oswald's Magazine Street and P.O. Box stamped. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=819

Another important item you and Bleau apparently do not address was Oswald handing out pamphlets in Dallas. In fact, he ordered more pamphlets while in Dallas. Of course, this doesn't square with your FPCC Banister-Oswald-Shaw-Core fantasy.  

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=531

Fred Litwin explains this huge blunder. 

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/jfk-destiny-betrayed-misleads-viewers-on-oswald-s-hands-off-cuba-handbills

Mr. DiEugenio you and Mr. Bleau are making this harder than it really should be, with all these crazy sub-plots and Cecil B. DeMille "Cast of Thousands" conspirators. In my opinion, you are really confusing people with these extremely dubious speculative claims. 

 

 

On 9/21/2022 at 11:23 AM, David Boylan said:

 

On 9/21/2022 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Posted by David Boylan:

 

 

Doh!

 

 

On 9/21/2022 at 12:06 PM, Steve Roe said:

JFK Oliver Stone movie prop. Read Fred Litwin's article. This stuff has been floating around for years.

 

 

Good grief.

Nice work, Steve.

 

[Gerry Down]

6 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Hypothetically, if Oswald was a low level intelligence asset assigned to smear the the FPCC in a propaganda operation that involved opening a fake local chapter, how would that have worked in the real world? 

1. Oswald would receive instruction to ramp up his efforts to establish credentials with the FPCC and obtain literature to copy and distribute. 
2. A location would be selected, preferably with a large Cuban exile population so that Oswald’s efforts would have maximum impact. 
3. Oswald would be directed to move to that location and link up with local contacts who would manage the operation and execute the plan. 

Oswald wrote to the FPCC in mid-April ‘63 requesting literature to distribute, and claiming that he had stood around Dallas with a placard around his neck saying “Viva Fidel”. There is zero evidence this ever happened other than a report from a cop from after the assassination who claimed he suddenly remembered the incident (after the “Viva Fidel” letter became public), and saw Oswald flee into a gun shop that coincidentally sold Carcanos. The cop told the press in Dec ‘63 that he’d been tipped off about the picketer by a reporter - but no effort was ever made to locate this reporter, and incredibly, the cop was not interviewed by the FBI until April ‘64. Hosty testified words to the effect that if the picketing incident really  happened, the Dallas Field Office would have certainly heard about it. 

Oswald’s letter to the FPCC was intercepted by an informant in New York, likely someone embedded in FPCC HQ. This informant told the NY Field Office about the letter on 4/21/63. 

Here’s the interesting part. New York did not (officially) inform Dallas about this letter until 6/27/63, an over two month delay. Other informants in New York had reported on letters Oswald sent to the SWP and CPUSA in Fall ‘62 and Dallas was informed of these letters within a week or two at most. New York also informed New Orleans of letters Oswald sent to CPUSA in June/July within about a week - so why the massive delay on the FPCC letter? 

FBI Chief Inspector James H. Gale looked into this after the assassination, concluded that there was no valid excuse for the suspiciously long delay and reprimanded the agents involved from the New York Office. 

What was the effect of the delay? The FPCC letter had a return address of P.O. Box 2915, and if Dallas had (officially) known that address (the official story on this is incredible, discussed in the Rifle/Neely St. thread) Hosty would have been able to track Oswald to New Orleans and Oswald’s late May letters to V.T. Lee (which were incredibly not intercepted/reported) would have almost certainly been seen as well. 

Also, if the FBI had (officially) known about Oswald’s alleged Dallas picketing incident and contacts with the FPCC he would have been very closely monitored, and the incident would have been thoroughly investigated.

Instead, Oswald was allowed to move to New Orleans and establish his phony FPCC chapter with zero scrutiny from the FBI, and run around with a bunch of anti-Castroites while pretending to be pro-Castro and get away with it. 

You are making it sound like Jim is claiming that Oswald moved to New Orleans on his own initiative and was subsequently recruited to act against the FPCC by Banister et al. - but that’s not what’s being proposed at all. Oswald moved to New Orleans not two weeks after this alleged and likely bogus Dallas picketing incident. The act of establishing credentials and requesting literature to copy squares perfectly with the idea of a start-up propaganda operation, and it’s not like Oswald didn’t know how to use a telephone.

EDIT: No idea why my font is so huge

Important summary of events. Hopefully you'll be doing an essay on this at some stage with footnotes etc. similar to "Rethinking Oswalds Mail"?

Two interesting points to add in to this sequence would be the apparent August/Sept 1962 letter the FPCC sent to LHO as Paul Bleu discusses here: https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/exposing-the-fpcc-part-1 which also the Dallas FBI field office was not notified about, otherwise Fain would not have closed his file on LHO at that time.   

And also the allegation made in Anthony Summers book "Conspiracy" that the FBI were monitoring LHO within 3 weeks of his arrival in New Orleans. Its not clear from the text of the below page if Summers means 3 weeks from April 24th when Oswald arrived in New Orleans or 3 weeks from May 10th when LHO actually moved in to 4907 Magazine Street:

 

 

[Mark Knight]

"Well now, they call me deBrueys..." [think J.J. Cale via Lynyrd Skynyrd for this one.]

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Mark Knight said:

"Well now, they call me deBrueys..." [think J.J. Cale via Lynyrd Skynyrd for this one.]

Ah, ha, ha, ha.  I appreciate the levity on a serious subject on a Saturday night.  It inspired me to stumble across this version I've never seen before.  Thanks.  Full screen, full volume on a laptop at least.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Tom your font is fine, and it makes it easier to read

As an old guy, I say "amen." 

[Ron Bulman]

Since you brought it up Mark.

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Matt Allison]

5 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

"Well now, they call me deBrueys..."

Haha yes, exactly. Well played.

If we could have gotten Warren to tell the truth under oath I suspect everyone here would've been able to come at this subject very differently.