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Did the "Big Fish" know


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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Matthew Smith's book 'JFK The Second Plot' is very persuasive

on the possible connections of officer J.D.Tippit to Lee Harvey Oswald and

Jack Ruby and their respective roles in the assassination of

President Kennedy as detailed in Chapter Seven. Was Tippit the Badgeman or is this idea too outlandish...too outrageous?

(Smith does not suggest this.This is merely a thought of mine). Where was Tippit when the shots were fired? Is there any evidence for Tippit's whereabouts at the time of the assassination? Who was driving the car that arrived at Oswald's lodgings and tooted the horn? Was it Tippit - hotfoot from assassinating President Kennedy?

Was the plan for Tippit to collect Oswald and drive him somewhere?

Was the conspirators' plan to kill Tippit and Oswald - and frame the dead

Oswald for Tippit's murder? Thus eliminating the two at one go.

The dead Oswald would, of course, also later take the rap for the assassination of President Kennedy. The whole conspiracy would have been sewn up - no need for Jack Ruby.

Some say it was not Oswald who shot Tippit but a third man who botched the 'job'

and fled. Of course, Tippit and Oswald were not aware they were both to be murdered.

Tippit's agreed brief was to cut down Oswald. Oswald's 'brief' was to survive.

Somehow the plan went awry and Oswald escaped the third man's unexpected attempt only to be shot by Ruby who, claims Smith, knew both Tippit and Oswald.

Ruby had to shoot Oswald not because Oswald knew too much

but because Oswald knew nothing - a fact that would become evident

at any future trial where Oswald would be shown

to be exactly what he said he was - a patsy.

Ruby had to take Oswald out - and quick.

So we have Oswald,Tippit and Ruby who all knew each other.

Where exactly do they fit into the conspiracy that led to the slaying of

President Kennedy? Active participants or clever facilitators who

all three had essential bit part roles to play in a wider conspiracy

whose sole aim, for unknown or at least unclear motives,

was the assassination and thereby elimination of President Kennedy?

Matthew Smith's book 'JFK The Second Plot' published by Mainstream Publishing.

http://www.mainstreampublishing.com

ISBN 1 84018 501 5

(ISBN 1 85158 472 2 1st Edition)

EBC

Edited by Eugene B. Connolly
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Ruby had to shoot Oswald not because Oswald knew too much

but because Oswald knew nothing - a fact that would become evident

at any future trial where Oswald would be shown

to be exactly what he said he was - a patsy.

Ruby had to take Oswald out - and quick.

That's quite an interesting point but you still would have to explain why Oswald

did leave the TSBD and went home to get his gun. Therefore he must have had a reason. I'm sure he didn't know who organized the plot but he knew at least those who put him into that uncomfortable position. Unfortunately he was unaware that, even he was taken into custody, his life was still in danger otherwise I'm sure he would have talked.

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I might add that the actions of Edwin Walker in the minutes and hours following the assassination of Kennedy are almost as suspicious as the movements of Oswald after his departure from the TSBD.

As I understand the story, Walker was on an airplane traveling toward Shreveport, LA when the pilot announced that Kennedy had been assassinated. Walker, I have been told, identified himself to the passengers in a way that was suggestive that he may have been worried that he might be associated with the murder (Walker was a well known critic of the Kennedy administration and considered a leader in the "right wing" movement in America). At 7:00 AM the following morning Walker received, while staying at the Captain Sherve Hotel in Shreveport, a transatlantic telephone call from a German periodical that then published a story the following Wednesday that implicated Oswald in the assassination attempt on the life of Edwin Walker. Walker would later deny, to the Warren Commision, that he had provided this information to the German interviewer (but Oswald was dead by that time). The FBI would not begin to investigate the Walker incident until days after the German story broke.

It seems that on the airplane Walker was compelled to distance himself from involvement in the Kennedy assassination by assuring that his fellow travelers could identify him as being on that plane. It can be reasonably speculated that Walker may have "helped" the German newspaper with their story (how did they know how to locate him at the Hotel in Shreveport) after Oswald's picture appeared on national television. The two actions (on the plane and providing the interview) are consistant with those of a man who may have had something to worry about just as Oswald's actions after the assassination suggest a similiar fear.

I speculate that the two (Oswald and Walker) may have met on October 9th, 1959. If Oswald would have lived, what would we know today?

Jim Root

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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Oswald and the TBDB

Oswald was manoevred into the TSBD by persons unknown

for their own nefarious purposes of which Oswald knew nothing.

Oswald wasn't on the sixth floor - he didn't have to be.

All Oswald had to do was to be to hand so he could be implicated.

If Oswald had been on the steps of the TSBD when President

Kennedy was shot this would have made no difference - they would have said

he had run up to the sixth floor after the motorcade had

passed, shot President Kennedy and then run down again and out the front door.

If Oswald had not turned up for work that day for some reason - sickness

or something else then they would have said he had sneaked into the TSBD,

gone up to the sixth floor, shot President Kennedy and then sneaked out

again - and all, of course, unseen. It just didn't matter. Oswald had been lined up. By the way, Lovelady - Oswald's lookalike wasn't

standing in the TSBD doorway

for nothing - he was there for a reason.

If Oswald had not been in Dallas on the 22nd November 1963

then as soon as they had found out that he was an employee

(which of course they knew already, anyway) of the TSBD or indeed of any other building in Dallas they would have gone and brought him back. Association by employment with the TSBD was enough to damn Oswald. Hell, he didn't even have to work there - he could have been delivering letters or something or just passing by.

If the shots had come from some other source then too Oswald would have been hauled in.

The only thing that could have saved Oswald

was to get to hell out of the USA and even then there would be

no guarantee that they would not come looking for him.

'They' equals the DPD and everyone else who was in on the conspiracy.

Poor Oswald couldn't win - he was done for no matter what he did or didn't do.

But Oswald was in the TSBD enjoying a Coke as witnesses

said but these same witnesses could have been 'relied' on in any event

- even if they had not seen Oswald at all. No one can lie like an eyewitness

- an old Russian proverb that Oswald would have known only too well.

There was no escape for Oswald.

EBC

EBC

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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Therefore he must have had a reason. I'm sure he didn't know who organized the plot but he knew at least those who put him into that uncomfortable position.

We have to think 'out of the box' on the Kennedy assassination. Why did Oswald leave the TSBD? Well, what would you have done in Oswald's position with Oswald's background? The President of the United States has just been slain

at 'your front door'. Oswald would have been gripped by fear and terror. He just had to get away and as far away as he could. Oswald had 'to make himself scarce'.

EBC

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Eugene

Some problems:

Oswald went home the night before the assassination and returned with "curtain rods." Coincidence?

Oswald left his wedding ring and money at the Paines. Coincidence?

Oswald was carring his false ID that had the same name on it that had ordered the rifle. Coinicence?

Oswald did leave the TSBD, Oswald did change clothes, Oswald did get his pistol and went to see a movie. Betweeen his apartment and the theater Tippit was killed, shell casings were recovered from the scene that had been used , to the exclusion of all other weapons, in the gun he had when arrested.

If Oswald was "set up" he sure helped a whole lot. While we can speculate on what someone might have done if Oswald had called in sick or for that matter had not carried "curtain rods" to work that day we are wasting effort much better spent on attempting to understand what we know did in fact happen. Just believing there was a conspiracy does not prove that there was a conspiracy.

After 40+ years the "box" is conspiracy. To think "out of the box," I believe you have to view the incident from above and look down upon everything that surrounds it. Looking at it directly may obstruct the view.

Jim Root

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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Oswald went home the night before the assassination and returned with "curtain rods." Coincidence?

Well of course Oswald went home! He had finished work for the day!

There are witnesses who said Oswald was not carrying 'curtain rods' when they saw him entering the TSBD on Nov 22 1963. Even he was carrying curtain rods it proves nothing. Perhaps he was told by some one to carry them in.

Oswald's leaving his wedding ring can not be seen in the context of anything to do with the assassination. There are many reasons why he should do such a thing - personal or domestic and totally unrelated to the assassination..

Oswald was carrying the fake ID with the fake name he used to order the rifle?

Why shouldn't he? Oswald was known to have taken potshots around Dallas with the rifle.

He needed the fake ID to show to anyone who queried him on the rifle.

Just because Oswald had a fake id does not mean he was an assassin.

'Just believing there was a conspiracy does not prove there was a conspiracy.'

There was a conspiracy. My view is that Oswald was only at the periphery.

In my view if we assume that Oswald did not shoot from the sixth floor and did not

even know of the rifle being stashed in the corner of the sixth floor then everything becomes clearer. The rifle could have been planted there. Later fingerprints could have been added or perhaps Oswald had at some earlier stage unwittingly or even wittingly handled the rifle.

'Looking at it directly may obstruct the view' (?!)

Perhaps we can't see the wood for the trees? What are the 'trees'? The trees are the trail of the so called 'obvious'. The so called 'obvious' is nothing more than 'the agreed lie' that Oswald shot President Kennedy? Agreed by whom?

EBC

Edited by Eugene B. Connolly
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Well of course Oswald went home! He had finished work for the day!

I think his home was rather 1026 North Beckley Ave than the Paine residence where he was allowed to stay only for the weekends. To leave the ring and almost

all his money, taking "curtain rods" to work all this seems to me a little much

coincidence. IMO there is no doubt that he was somehow involved, but how that

is still to be uncovered.

Of course I can think of a reason to leave the wedding ring at home but that shows

us that the whereabouts of Oswald during his time in Dallas are pretty much hiden in the dark. What about his friends or colleges apart from the Paines, compared to

the information that builded up his "background" there is almost nothing for the time he lived in Dallas.

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George

I agree that Oswald was "somehow" involved, perhaps very involved. For myself, if he was truly involved, there must be connectivity to his movements and actions during his life from the Marines to his death.

We now know that his movements were monitored at the highest levels of the CIA and who knows what other groups within the intelligence community. This is not a person of minimal interest! It is my belief that all the compartmentalized intelligence groups knew he was of interest but I do not believe they all knew why (which adds to the mystery) and makes the Warren Report (coverup) easier to understand (In my opinion a lot of people were very willing to cover thier own behinds when it came to the information provided to the Warren Commission Staff).

Jim Root

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Jim

IMO he was rather "little" involved than "very" because I think if he had some deeper knowledge of what was going on, concerning his intelligence, he would have acted different. The strange thing to me is, that he seemed to be unaware of

the shooting until he was stoped at the lunch room. But as we know he asked one of his working buddys what was going on when he realized the crowd on Elm street. So it looks as if he didn't watch the motorcade neither form a window nor

form outside the building otherwise he would have witnessed the shooting and, now aware of beeing used, would have left the building or the scene immediately. There would have been no need to go first to the cantina to drink a coke and then "escape". Therefore I also doubt that he did smuggle "a" rifle to the TSBD.

I agree that his movements were monitored by the CIA but that doesn't automaticly mean that these informations were only available for the intelligence or its related groups. If these informations were sold or given to a third party it

contained the blame of those who provided the information. But even if the involvement of the CIA was more coincidence than willingly provoked it would not chance the effort of the WC to negate any involvement.

George

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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

George,

Good point on Oswald's reaction and movements. I read in Marrs book that Oswald came into the TSBD and was told by a co worker that "the President had been shot".

He mumbled something and walked on.

If Oswald was outside the TSBD at the time of the shooting then surely this

means he could not have been on the sixth floor?

EBC

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George and Eugene

We each have to decide for ourselves what we do or do not accept when it comes to the information that is available about the assassination. For myself, I believe that the politically astute Oswald, who had traveled to Russia, who had gone to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico, who was passing out flyers for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans, who was interviewed on the Radio, who spoke about his political beliefs at Spring Hill College, who attended a speech given by Edwin Walker and who wrote consistantly to the Socialist Workers Party would have been interested in and aware of President Kennedys visit to Dallas and the route of the motorcade. I find it difficult to believe that he was causually sipping a coke in the lunch room or standing outside, unaware of the event (motorcade) occuring in front of the TSBD (involved or not).

Jim Root

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George and Eugene

We each have to decide for ourselves what we do or do not accept when it comes to the information that is available about the assassination.  For myself, I believe that the politically astute Oswald, who had traveled to Russia, who had gone to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico, who was passing out flyers for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans, who was interviewed on the Radio, who spoke about his political beliefs at Spring Hill College, who attended a speech given by Edwin Walker and who wrote consistantly to the Socialist Workers Party would have been interested in and aware of President Kennedys visit to Dallas and the route of the motorcade.  I find it difficult to believe that he was causually sipping a coke in the lunch room or standing outside, unaware of the event (motorcade) occuring in front of the TSBD (involved or not).

Jim Root

Hi Jim

Help me out here. Are you saying that perhaps the witnesses (Baker, etc.) that claim to have seen LHO in the break room are mistaken? Employing disinformation? You do bring up a good point though, wouldn't this guy be out (or at least at the window somewhere) watching the motorcade? Unless of course he had been instructed to do otherwise. Was there a phone in that break room? Could he have been waiting for a call to receive some type of info or instructions? Perhaps, to avoid having him be seen outside at lunchtime/motorcase time, he was told by his handler to wait in room X for an important call? Just speculating here, but I see your point. :eek

Edited by Greg Wagner
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Excellent point Greg, the "wait for instructions" order may well have trapped him.

I also believe, because of morphological and textile similarities, that LHO may have been the man photographed out front of the TSBD by Altgens.

Although this has been 'explained' as a picture of Billy Loveday, I think the resemblance and the clothing, right down to a missing shirt button, puts Oswald

exactly where an innocent man would have been, that is, out front of the building watching the motorcade.....

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Excellent point Greg, the "wait for instructions" order may well have trapped him.

I also believe, because of morphological and textile similarities, that LHO may have been the man photographed out front of the TSBD by Altgens.

Although this has been 'explained' as a picture of Billy Loveday, I think the resemblance and the clothing, right down to a missing shirt button, puts Oswald

exactly where an innocent man would have been, that is, out front of the building watching the motorcade.....

Hi Shanet

I agree re: the Altgens photo. Like so many things in this case it's so tantalizingly close and suggestive. If only the photo were a little clearer/closer.

I do think the plotters had to have some mechanism in place to keep LHO inside the building and at minimum visibility during the time he was supposed to be firing. Do you know the timing of the Altgens photo showing the possible Oswald out front relative to the gunshots/motorcade? :eek

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