Why LHO Was Involved in the JFKA

[Benjamin Cole]

This is a first draft, a quickie. 

1. John Newman, Dan Hardway and Tennent Bagly have posited LHO was a CIA asset, and even a "witting asset." OK, let's defer to them (for good reason. See their research). 

2. LHO was in the TSBD at the time JFK was shot. 

3. Newman and Hardway posit the JFKA was a CIA action. Larry Hancock has laid out a lot of reasons to think the CIA Miami Station was involved in the JFKA. 

4. OK, let's accept we have CIA-asset LHO in the TSBD at the time JFK was shot by a CIA action. Someone on the sixth floor stuck a rifle barrel out of the TSBD during the JFKA. There were likely two people on the sixth floor at the time of the JFKA. 

5. LHO leaves the TSBD immediately post-JFKA and goes home to get a revolver. 

6. LHO is murdered two days later, by Ruby, who has run guns to Cuba and is mobbed up. The mob is tight with the CIA. 

----

Query 1: If LHO was totally uninvolved in the JFKA, had no clue at all, why did he go home to get a revolver? You need a gun to watch movies? Why did not LHO assume thugs, or right-wing nuts, or other parties with whom LHO was not involved, shot JFK? LHO appeared to know immediately he was the patsy. But how could LHO know he was the patsy, if he had no idea at all what had happened? 

Query 2: If LHO was totally uninvolved in the JFKA---knew nothing of the details, had no clues or insights into or of the JFKA--then why murder LHO? If LHO was totally uninvolved, then LHO could spill no beans, had no info to give. LHO might tell authorities, and eventually the media, he had worked for the CIA in the past, and the CIA would say he had not. Who would authorities and the public believe---an accused assassin, or the CIA? Did anyone believe Clay Shaw worked for the CIA (during the Garrison days)? 

The upshot:  LHO was involved in some way with what happened on 11/22, surmised quickly he was a likely patsy, and then was murdered for what information he might spill. 

IMHO: There are very valid reasons to contend the WC created a mythology about  LHO and the JFKA. That does not mean the true story is that LHO was a totally uninvolved bystander. 

And, in fact, I believe LHO was hoodwinked into a false flag op of some sort. 

But LHO knew a lot about what happened that day---or else why murder him? 

Just IMHO...

Add on: LHO was an amateur photographer, deeply interested in politics, and an admirer of JFK. It would be reasonable to assume LHO would, on 11/22, be street-side taking pictures of JFK, as many did that day.  

So...if you wanted to make LHO the loner-loser-gunman-patsy, you had to make sure he was not on the street that day, taking pictures. You couldn't just shoot JFK and hope LHO was invisible when shots rang out, and then blame LHO as the lone gunman.  

So...what happened to LHO as JFK rolled by the TSBD? 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Benjamin Cole
add on

[Joseph McBride]

Oswald was an FBI informant on the plot and

realized when the shooting happened that

he was the patsy. His "legend" had been created

by the CIA, with which he was also involved.

He was smart enough to put all that together

quickly during his flight to Oak Cliff and recognize

the serious consequences to his safety.

Being an informant on the plot also explains the actions you mention.

There's no evidence he was on the sixth floor at the

time of the shooting.

[Benjamin Cole]

10 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

Oswald was an FBI informant on the plot and

realized when the shooting happened that

he was the patsy. His "legend" had been created

by the CIA, with which he was also involved.

He was smart enough to put all that together

quickly during his flight to Oak Cliff and recognize

the serious consequences to his safety.

Being an informant on the plot also explains the actions you mention.

There's no evidence he was on the sixth floor at the

time of the shooting.

JM-

Thanks for your response. 

So, by your take, LHO was a bona fide informant for the FBI, and in that role learned of the pending JFKA---but too late, so to speak? He could not inform the FBI soon enough to prevent the JFKA? 

Though innocent, LHO reasoned that he looked guilty enough that a rapid departure from the TSBD was warranted? 

So, LHO was aware he "had no alibi" so to speak? 

Even as an informant, why did LHO not want to see JFK pass by? 

I know you have thought deeply about this topic. 

[Joseph McBride]

I appreciate your thoughtful hypothesis,

Benjamin. My research shows that Oswald was telling the FBI what he knew

about the plot to kill President Kennedy, evidently,

but exactly what about it he told them we don't know.

And he didn't know what for him would become the crucial part of the puzzle,

that he was to be the patsy. I am not convinced

that he was outside the TSBD watching the motorcade,

as some think, but it is possible. But if he was not, I don't have

an explanation for that other than to surmise,

as others have, that someone instructed him

to be inside for whatever reason we don't know. He apparently did not

make a "rapid" departure from the TSBD but

took an oddly meandering route.

Officers Tippit and Mentzel were told to hunt

him down in Oak Cliff, as they were doing

shortly after Kennedy was shot. The DPD

knew where Oswald lived. He was known to numerous

agencies and was caught in their trap, a convenient

fall guy for all concerned, up to a point. When researchers

began uncovering his whole complex story, or as much

of it as we have found out, he was not such a convenient

fall guy anymore but had to be propped up as such

by a steady stream of disinformation agents over

the past 59 years and counting.

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Joseph McBride

[Benjamin Cole]

42 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

I appreciate your thoughtful hypothesis,

Benjamin. My research shows that Oswald was telling the FBI what he knew

about the plot to kill President Kennedy, evidently,

but exactly what about it he told them we don't know.

And he didn't know what for him would become the crucial part of the puzzle,

that he was to be the patsy. I am not convinced

that he was outside the TSBD watching the motorcade,

as some think, but it is possible. But if he was not, I don't have

an explanation for that other than to surmise,

as others have, that someone instructed him

to be inside for whatever reason we don't know. He apparently did not

make a "rapid" departure from the TSBD but

took an oddly meandering route.

Officers Tippit and Mentzel were told to hunt

him down in Oak Cliff, as they were doing

shortly after Kennedy was shot. The DPD

knew where Oswald lived. He was known to numerous

agencies and was caught in their trap, a convenient

fall guy for all concerned, up to a point. When researchers

began uncovering his whole complex story, or as much

of it as we have found out, he was not such a convenient

fall guy anymore but had to be propped up as such

by a steady stream of disinformation agents over

the past 59 years and counting.

 

We certainly agree on a lot, and I really can't prove my case, that LHO ( as an earnest if troubled CIA asset) was ensnared into a CIA false flag op that went bad.

LHO did leave the TSBD early enough that a reporter asked him where was the telephone, so the reporter could phone in his story.

And LHO did take a taxi home, but warily dropped off a few blocks from his abode to survey the surroundings, and then armed himself. 

And then LHO was murdered.

I would say LHO knew vital info about what happened on 11/22---vital enough to warrant his execution. 

Just IMHO....

 

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Benjamin Cole writes:

Quote

If LHO was totally uninvolved in the JFKA, had no clue at all, why did he go home to get a revolver?

Did he actually go home to get a revolver, though? We only have the cops' word for that. It was not unknown for the police in those days to plant weapons on suspects when arresting them. More than one witness made a statement consistent with the revolver being planted on Oswald during his arrest.

Quote

If LHO was totally uninvolved in the JFKA---knew nothing of the details, had no clues or insights into or of the JFKA--then why murder LHO?

It would be mainly to prevent him giving his alibi at a trial.

The case against Oswald is flimsy enough as it is, even with his side of the argument having barely survived. If he had gone on to testify at a trial, he would have been able to fill in the details of the two elements of his alibi that have been preserved:

• his sighting of James Jarman and Harold Norman entering the rear of the building at around 12.25, by which time a gunman had been sighted on the sixth floor;
• and his going outside to watch the parade.

A trial would have been liable to destroy the lone-gunman explanation. The Dallas police would have been well aware of this, as would other institutions which possessed the ability to arrange Oswald's elimination.

Quote

You couldn't just shoot JFK and hope LHO was invisible when shots rang out, and then blame LHO as the lone gunman.

This assumes that the plan had designated Oswald as the lone gunman in advance, an assumption that may not be justified.

We know that the shooting was interpreted originally as a conspiracy, and that the conspiratorial explanation was replaced by the lone-gunman explanation for political reasons (to divert attention from the Cuban, Soviet and US regimes, all of which were variously suspected of being behind a conspiracy).

We can't rule out the notion that Oswald knew something about what was going to happen, or even that he played an active part. But since a simpler explanation is available, we should apply Occam's Razor and conclude, provisionally, that Oswald need not have known anything or had any active involvement.

[Benjamin Cole]

22 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Benjamin Cole writes:

Did he actually go home to get a revolver, though? We only have the cops' word for that. It was not unknown for the police in those days to plant weapons on suspects when arresting them. More than one witness made a statement consistent with the revolver being planted on Oswald during his arrest.

It would be mainly to prevent him giving his alibi at a trial.

The case against Oswald is flimsy enough as it is, even with his side of the argument having barely survived. If he had gone on to testify at a trial, he would have been able to fill in the details of the two elements of his alibi that have been preserved:

• his sighting of James Jarman and Harold Norman entering the rear of the building at around 12.25, by which time a gunman had been sighted on the sixth floor;
• and his going outside to watch the parade.

A trial would have been liable to destroy the lone-gunman explanation. The Dallas police would have been well aware of this, as would other institutions which possessed the ability to arrange Oswald's elimination.

This assumes that the plan had designated Oswald as the lone gunman in advance, an assumption that may not be justified.

We know that the shooting was interpreted originally as a conspiracy, and that the conspiratorial explanation was replaced by the lone-gunman explanation for political reasons (to divert attention from the Cuban, Soviet and US regimes, all of which were variously suspected of being behind a conspiracy).

We can't rule out the notion that Oswald knew something about what was going to happen, or even that he played an active part. But since a simpler explanation is available, we should apply Occam's Razor and conclude, provisionally, that Oswald need not have known anything or had any active involvement.

Well, surely you made some good points. 

Not sure about Occam's Razor (a two-sided blade btw?). 

OK: A CIA plot to murder JFK on 11/22, and CIA-asset LHO is in the TSBD when JFK passes and is shot (possibly from the TSBD, or else there was decoy rifle shown to the street). 

Occam's Razor: LHO, a four-year CIA asset, played a role in the CIA plot against JFK. Duh. He was right there in the TSBD, and an active asset. So LHO was murdered to shut him up. He was supposed to escape. 

OK: Did LHO have a revolver in the Texas Theater? I don't trust the paperwork, but on the other hand, several cops said he was armed, and fragmentary notes from his DPD interrogation have him admitting having the gun. Yes, it all could be faked. 

My problem with that is the widening circle of people needed to lie and shut up afterwards. The same problem I have with JFKA conspiracy theories that involve lots of witting participants pre-JFKA. People blab. 

A long time ago, Tink Thompson said if you throw out all evidence as tainted...then we are left in a muddle. 

And where is the evidence LHO was watching the parade on the street? The impossible to decipher Prayer Man photo? 

The timelines of LHO's whereabouts inside the TSBD during the JFKA are murky at best.

No one has ever said, "As shots rang out, LHO was by my side" or anything like that.

Well, IMHO, as they say.... 

 

[Ron Ege]

14 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Well, surely you made some good points. 

Not sure about Occam's Razor (a two-sided blade btw?). 

OK: A CIA plot to murder JFK on 11/22, and CIA-asset LHO is in the TSBD when JFK passes and is shot (possibly from the TSBD, or else there was decoy rifle shown to the street). 

Occam's Razor: LHO, a four-year CIA asset, played a role in the CIA plot against JFK. Duh. He was right there in the TSBD, and an active asset. So LHO was murdered to shut him up. He was supposed to escape. 

OK: Did LHO have a revolver in the Texas Theater? I don't trust the paperwork, but on the other hand, several cops said he was armed, and fragmentary notes from his DPD interrogation have him admitting having the gun. Yes, it all could be faked. 

My problem with that is the widening circle of people needed to lie and shut up afterwards. The same problem I have with JFKA conspiracy theories that involve lots of witting participants pre-JFKA. People blab. 

A long time ago, Tink Thompson said if you throw out all evidence as tainted...then we are left in a muddle. 

And where is the evidence LHO was watching the parade on the street? The impossible to decipher Prayer Man photo? 

The timelines of LHO's whereabouts inside the TSBD during the JFKA are murky at best.

No one has ever said, "As shots rang out, LHO was by my side" or anything like that.

Well, IMHO, as they say.... 

 

Oswald may have or may not have been Prayer Man; "jury's still out on that" - is what I gather by reading others here.

If it's ever proved to have been him, then surely, "Case Closed".

Is it really impossible to have been Oswald, since it appears that he was already on the TSBD's first floor and then maybe ducking out at the last moment for a quick look-see, while everyone is focused on the street/motorcade?

The shots ring out, and during the chaos, Oswald, after just a few seconds and no one noticing him, quickly goes back in, especially if he was involved, even in a peripheral way - re the hypothesis that he was told the assassination attempt was just a false flag operation that was designed to fail - and then, "Aw-oh, not so much!"

Relative to keeping Oswald out of sight during the shooting, could he not have been told, "Hey Oz, hang tight there in the first-floor lunch-room until such time as the motorcade passes.  Then we'll call you on the house phone and let you know what happens next."

Was there not some evidence that Oswald may have been the one telling the press, rushing into the TSBD after the shooting, where the phone was?

Maybe the phone doesn't ring by time X (the op has been called off) - and/or Ozzie decides, "Hey, I don't want to miss seeing the prez; I'll just go out for a few seconds.  They won't know.  That phone ringer is pretty loud - I won't miss the call."

Oswald may not have been a "super sleuth", but IMHO he was smart enough not to panic, immediately after the shooting.  He was able to "act natural", collect his thoughts for a couple of minutes, and then exit the TSBD, and as has been suggested, begin the trip to meet his contact, that was prearranged - "In case something goes a little sideways, Oz.  No worries: we've got your back."
 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Ron Ege

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Ron Ege said:

Oswald may have or may not have been Prayer Man; "jury's still out on that" - is what I gather by reading others here.

If it's ever proved to have been him, then surely, "Case Closed".

Is it really impossible to have been Oswald, since it appears that he was already on the TSBD's first floor and then maybe ducking out at the last moment for a quick look-see, while everyone is focused on the street/motorcade?

The shots ring out, and during the chaos, Oswald, after just a few seconds and no one noticing him, quickly goes back in, especially if he was involved, even in a peripheral way - re the hypothesis that he was told the assassination attempt was just a false flag operation that was designed to fail - and then, "Aw-oh, not so much!"

Relative to keeping Oswald out of sight during the shooting, could he not have been told, "Hey Oz, hang tight there in the first-floor lunch-room until such time as the motorcade passes.  Then we'll call you on the house phone and let you know what happens next."

Was there not some evidence that Oswald may have been the one telling the press, rushing into the TSBD after the shooting, where the phone was?

Maybe the phone doesn't ring by time X (the op has been called off) - and/or Ozzie decides, "Hey, I don't want to miss seeing the prez; I'll just go out for a few seconds.  They won't know.  That phone ringer is pretty loud - I won't miss the call."

Oswald may not have been a "super sleuth", but IMHO he was smart enough not to panic, immediately after the shooting.  He was able to "act natural", collect his thoughts for a couple of minutes, and then exit the TSBD, and as has been suggested, begin the trip to meet his contact, that was prearranged - "In case something goes a little sideways, Oz.  No worries: we've got your back."
 

RE-

All of your comments are true.

The ultra-blurry Prayer Man image could be anybody, and so that does not exclude LHO. 

Yes, Robert MacNeil (reporter) thought it was LHO who directed him to a phone. 

On the other hand, the Prayer Man could be LHO, and LHO could still be part of a plot to kill JFK. Rarely considered is that LHO was an earnest CIA asset and as a good soldier participated in the JFKA, after which he was made the patsy.  He was just a look-out, or maybe he turned off the power to the TSBD. 

I contend LHO could also have been on the sixth floor, and went down the stairs unseen. Oddly enough I have never read what kind of shoes LHO wore that day. Sneakers?  If one walks towards the edge of creaky staircase (that is, not in the middle) there is generally less creaking from the joists. And would the women on the stairs, in the horrible excitement post-JFKA, really notice if there was a creaking noise a floor above or below? 

As I have said, my pet theory is that LHO participated in false flag CIA op, an intentional miss of JFK. The op was piggy-backed on by Miami-CIA-Cubans-veterans. LHO is innocent but involved, in my pet theory. 

It may be that some JFKA researchers, in their justifiable zeal to refute the WC (and even the HSCA) feel they must posit total innocence on the part of LHO. But the truth may be even uglier---yes, the CIA murdered JFK, and LHO was part of the op, and so he was murdered. The desire to sanctify LHO may be misplaced. Just a thought. 

Just IMHO....

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael Davidson]

The encounter on the stairs ( Truly / Baker / Oswald ) was Oswalds job - slow down any incoming Police just long enough for a 6th floor shooter to leave . Job done Oswald leaves . Tippits job is to shoot Oswald but Oswald gets him first ( self defence ) hence Oswalds arrest and the need to kill Oswald

[Charles Blackmon]

21 minutes ago, Michael Davidson said:

The encounter on the stairs ( Truly / Baker / Oswald ) was Oswalds job 

Actually there have been some pretty compelling posts on EF of late that conclude the "lunchroom encounter" did not actually occur. 

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Actually there have been some pretty compelling posts on EF of late that conclude the "lunchroom encounter" did not actually occur. 

Again, not to belabor a point, but if the Baker-LHO encounter occurred on a higher-up floor, that possibly makes it more likely that LHO was involved somehow in the JFKA. 

In my pet theory, LHO was on the sixth floor, took a single shot at JFK and purposely missed (the Tague shot), and then went downstairs. 

However to be fair, LHO could have played a role in the JFKA, acting as a CIA asset. I don't think so, as LHO was said to admire JFK. But LHO was US Marine, and then a CIA asset, he may have felt his job was to follow orders. Go to Russia. Come back. Infiltrate commie groups, and so on.  He was a soldier. 

The only thing I am 99% sure of is that JBC was struck at ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-312. Not enough time for a single-shot bolt action rifle.  Ergo, a second gunman. Plus there was gunsmoke/gunshot sounds from the GK. Almost surely, at a minimum, a diversion. Ergo, a conspiracy. 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Actually there have been some pretty compelling posts on EF of late that conclude the "lunchroom encounter" did not actually occur. 

It didn't.  Many here won't take the time to read 130 pages (really about 3/4 that, lots of pictures) but all should.  Details and analysis you won't find anywhere else.  No time to read this?  An excellent article on Kennedys and King will make you want to.

Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter Aug 27 2017-by_Bart Kamp.pdf (prayer-man.com) 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

It didn't.  Many here won't take the time to read 130 pages (really about 3/4 that, lots of pictures) but all should.  Details and analysis you won't find anywhere else.  No time to read this?  An excellent article on Kennedys and King will make you want to.

Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter Aug 27 2017-by_Bart Kamp.pdf (prayer-man.com) 

Thanks for the links Ron

[Ron Ege]

14 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

It didn't.  Many here won't take the time to read 130 pages (really about 3/4 that, lots of pictures) but all should.  Details and analysis you won't find anywhere else.  No time to read this?  An excellent article on Kennedys and King will make you want to.

Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter Aug 27 2017-by_Bart Kamp.pdf (prayer-man.com) 

Ron, thanks for the reminder.  Read it a couple times.  Inclined to agree.