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Breakthrough in the Walker shooting case: an inside job, accomplices, and the role of Oswald


Greg Doudna

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I would second David and its important to remember that Oswald himself had two very long term personal views (long term for a short life at least, dating back to his teen age years).  He was demonstrably socialist and Marxist in his beliefs and worldview but he was also very anti-racist (if you doubt either, read his public statements in Russia and then read the monographs he wrote in 62/63).  Both his socialist and anti-racist views show up consistently as well as in 1963, his writings and the speech he gave in early fall were both solidly against radical nationalism and the ultra right. 

Given that consistency, the thought that he would be "infiltrating" the ultra right in both Dallas (per the statement to Michael Paine) and later in New Orleans would make perfect sense - with the goal of exposing them and their activities (very possibly to the FBI as he was seeking to expose the anti-Castro exiles in NO).  Not to mention Marina's snarky "hunter of Fascists" note on the back of the photo left in the records that the DeMohrenschield's had loaned them.

Two things that can be said about Oswald was that he marched to his own drummer, and he had no fear about pursuing his beliefs - he also didn't take orders well at all, not in military, not in Russia, not at work back in the US. 

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I put in my 2 cents here (above).

My guess is whoever shot at Walker intended to miss. The bullet was actually deflected lower, towards Walker, after striking the the window frame. Walker initially thought kids were playing with firecrackers, or there might be fireworks outside (so he said). 

I may disagree with Larry Hancock on this one, which is not solid footing, btw.

Tennent Bagley ID'ed LHO as a "witting" CIA asset. Maybe Bagley was wrong, maybe he was right. Dan Hardway and John Newman seem to agree, somewhat. 

If LHO was a CIA asset, then it follows the Walker shooting was likely a "practice run" ---to test LHO's nerve at shooting at a public figure (but to miss). And to get LHO comfortable with the idea, that such a thing could be gotten away with.

I have read LHO missives to the world, and yes he had some evolving ideas regarding socialism, and so forth. He also served in the Marines and was possibly a CIA asset. 

You know, at age 24 and needing money and career advancement, LHO's ideology may have been secondary, or fluid. 

At age 24 my ideology, as it was, was not yet formed. Maybe not even yet. 

 

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Ben, my whole view of Oswald has evolved over the  years - I reviewed the present state of it in my Lancer 2022 presentation.  One of the reasons for my current thinking was a recent, deep dive into primary sources that I had really not paid sufficient attention to previously - after realizing I had based a lot of thinking and writing on what has been written over the decades in the JFK community.  The thing that made most clear to me was that Oswald's thinking, character and personality had remained quite consistent since his teenage years when he applied to the  Young Socialists for a membership and to start a chapter.  His later experiences in both Japan and Russia certainly refined his view,  - as an example he became very negative towards Soviet style communism and even more so towards "nationalistic" thinking and racism.

As to whether he was a "witting" asset for either the CIA or the FBI, that is certainly possible.  I see signs he was more than willing to act as a source for the FBI and provide information on the ultra right and on anti-Castro military activities in New Orleans.  And I think that was what the FBI was protecting in New Orleans.

In regard to the CIA, it is quite likely that he may have been "steered" at some points (that would be in line with the "useful idiot" take), and he certainly was a known and of operational value to the Agency.  As to his being "witting" and to what extent, I leave that as an open question but if so I see it as being entirely Oswald's own decision and in line with his personal agendas at given points in time - I don't see Oswald simply following orders and bouncing from task to task, that was not his nature.

I've reached the stage (somewhat like Oswald) that my contrarian nature is showing and I've become cautious about simply accepting established lines of thinking, even if it comes from "authority".  And as I've stated many times, my view of the attack in Dallas only jelled with a final conspiracy (one among many targeting JFK that year) that jelled over a tipping point related to the possibility of an accommodation over Cuba which became very real in September, October, 1963 - which means that whatever went on with Oswald (to my view) and Walker in Dallas had to do with Oswald's personal agenda not  anyone else's.

Actually I doubt we will ever find common agreement on any of this so I don't necessarily expect anyone to following my line of thinking; I do however find this thread innovative and worth a lot of consideration.  Kudos to Greg for bringing the scenario forward for consideration.

 

 

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I think Greg has presented a solid case that the second car seen by Kirk Coleman was indeed Robert Surrey's 1961 Ford Sunliner, and that Surrey himself drove it out of the church parking lot within a minute or so after the Walker shot. Coupled with the tantalizing information from Gayle Nix-Jackson that both David and William Surrey claimed to have been eyewitnesses to the father's acquaintance with "Lee", the "attempted" Walker shooting was certainly some sort of false-flag action by provocateurs, probably with Surrey's knowledge.

 

But since there was in 1963 (and remains to this day) exactly zero physical evidence that Marina's husband fired at Walker on the evening of April 10, 1963, then her belated statements concerning her husband's "involvement" should be viewed very skeptically . . .  

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9 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Ben, my whole view of Oswald has evolved over the  years - I reviewed the present state of it in my Lancer 2022 presentation.  One of the reasons for my current thinking was a recent, deep dive into primary sources that I had really not paid sufficient attention to previously - after realizing I had based a lot of thinking and writing on what has been written over the decades in the JFK community.  The thing that made most clear to me was that Oswald's thinking, character and personality had remained quite consistent since his teenage years when he applied to the  Young Socialists for a membership and to start a chapter.  His later experiences in both Japan and Russia certainly refined his view,  - as an example he became very negative towards Soviet style communism and even more so towards "nationalistic" thinking and racism.

As to whether he was a "witting" asset for either the CIA or the FBI, that is certainly possible.  I see signs he was more than willing to act as a source for the FBI and provide information on the ultra right and on anti-Castro military activities in New Orleans.  And I think that was what the FBI was protecting in New Orleans.

In regard to the CIA, it is quite likely that he may have been "steered" at some points (that would be in line with the "useful idiot" take), and he certainly was a known and of operational value to the Agency.  As to his being "witting" and to what extent, I leave that as an open question but if so I see it as being entirely Oswald's own decision and in line with his personal agendas at given points in time - I don't see Oswald simply following orders and bouncing from task to task, that was not his nature.

I've reached the stage (somewhat like Oswald) that my contrarian nature is showing and I've become cautious about simply accepting established lines of thinking, even if it comes from "authority".  And as I've stated many times, my view of the attack in Dallas only jelled with a final conspiracy (one among many targeting JFK that year) that jelled over a tipping point related to the possibility of an accommodation over Cuba which became very real in September, October, 1963 - which means that whatever went on with Oswald (to my view) and Walker in Dallas had to do with Oswald's personal agenda not  anyone else's.

Actually I doubt we will ever find common agreement on any of this so I don't necessarily expect anyone to following my line of thinking; I do however find this thread innovative and worth a lot of consideration.  Kudos to Greg for bringing the scenario forward for consideration.

 

 

Larry-

Well, your views are certainly valuable and circumspect, IMHO. 

We are probably in 95% agreement that the most likely source of the JFKA was the Miami CIA station-Cuban exile group, possibly financed with mob money----the people indicated in SWHT or Tipping Point. I still puzzle about Eladio Del Valle and Hermininio Diaz. (John Newman may be working on another angle).

I have not read as much as you of LHO's own writings, though I read all that I could find a couple decades back. LHO of  course also spoke at a small college campus and on the radio, relating his views.

Well, all explanations of the JFKA tend to have vacancies, mine included. 

My only solid view is that there had to be more than a lone gunman with a single-shot bolt action rifle on 11/22. Too many shots in too limited a time. Let alone the smoke-and-bang show on the Grassy Knoll. 

Stay tuned: I plan a post on the mysterious wrist injury to Gov. Connally. 

 

 

Edited by Benjamin Cole
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16 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I put in my 2 cents here (above).

My guess is whoever shot at Walker intended to miss. The bullet was actually deflected lower, towards Walker, after striking the the window frame. Walker initially thought kids were playing with firecrackers, or there might be fireworks outside (so he said). 

I may disagree with Larry Hancock on this one, which is not solid footing, btw.

Tennent Bagley ID'ed LHO as a "witting" CIA asset. Maybe Bagley was wrong, maybe he was right. Dan Hardway and John Newman seem to agree, somewhat. 

If LHO was a CIA asset, then it follows the Walker shooting was likely a "practice run" ---to test LHO's nerve at shooting at a public figure (but to miss). And to get LHO comfortable with the idea, that such a thing could be gotten away with.

I have read LHO missives to the world, and yes he had some evolving ideas regarding socialism, and so forth. He also served in the Marines and was possibly a CIA asset. 

You know, at age 24 and needing money and career advancement, LHO's ideology may have been secondary, or fluid. 

At age 24 my ideology, as it was, was not yet formed. Maybe not even yet. 

 

he had much more than some "evolving ideas." In one of the extant television interviews he makes a distinction between Marxism and Leninism - which indicates a high level of sophisticated knowledge of the Left and its factions. No casual observer would have made these distinctions, certainly not 60 years ago (are you aware of the difference? If not, that's fine, but it indicates that LHO was much more than an intellectual dilletante in these matters).

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2 hours ago, Allen Lowe said:

he had much more than some "evolving ideas." In one of the extant television interviews he makes a distinction between Marxism and Leninism - which indicates a high level of sophisticated knowledge of the Left and its factions. No casual observer would have made these distinctions, certainly not 60 years ago (are you aware of the difference? If not, that's fine, but it indicates that LHO was much more than an intellectual dilletante in these matters).

Thanks for commenting.

LHO's library card for New Orleans indicates he was a serious reader of a wide range of literature. His wife Marina said he was reading all the time. 

I have never delved deep enough into communist or Marxist philosophy to know of the finer points, but some make much about the fact LHO, in the famous backyard photo shots, had newspapers from rival strains of communism on display, something no real intellect would have done.  

At this late date, perhaps we cannot be sure of LHO's true sentiments. My guess is LHO was an intel asset. Others say his thoughts on socialism were sincere. He was a young fellow, and people do evolve. 

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9 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Thanks for commenting.

LHO's library card for New Orleans indicates he was a serious reader of a wide range of literature. His wife Marina said he was reading all the time. 

I have never delved deep enough into communist or Marxist philosophy to know of the finer points, but some make much about the fact LHO, in the famous backyard photo shots, had newspapers from rival strains of communism on display, something no real intellect would have done.  

At this late date, perhaps we cannot be sure of LHO's true sentiments. My guess is LHO was an intel asset. Others say his thoughts on socialism were sincere. He was a young fellow, and people do evolve. 

Ben,

FWIW: I think it is highly likely that Marina's husband was genuinely sympathetic to "socialism" as an ideal on some level but hated the actual "communism" he witnessed first-hand in the USSR. I think it is beyond doubt that he was a tool of U.S. Intelligence, both witting and unwitting. He told David Ferrie that leafletting in New Orleans near Tulane was part of "a job" (for which he was to be paid $25), yet I see no credible evidence that he would have knowingly participated in a plot to assassinate JFK. He may (MAY) have thought he was part of something to prevent such an event, but even that is uncertain. Exactly what he thought was to happen on 11/22/63 is unknown, but he sure reacted as if he had NOT expected the assassination. 

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9 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Ben,

FWIW: I think it is highly likely that Marina's husband was genuinely sympathetic to "socialism" as an ideal on some level but hated the actual "communism" he witnessed first-hand in the USSR. I think it is beyond doubt that he was a tool of U.S. Intelligence, both witting and unwitting. He told David Ferrie that leafletting in New Orleans near Tulane was part of "a job" (for which he was to be paid $25), yet I see no credible evidence that he would have knowingly participated in a plot to assassinate JFK. He may (MAY) have thought he was part of something to prevent such an event, but even that is uncertain. Exactly what he thought was to happen on 11/22/63 is unknown, but he sure reacted as if he had NOT expected the assassination. 

My guess is LHO thought he was part of false flag op on 11/22 to be blamed on Castro. That is a guess, however....

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On 12/5/2022 at 10:46 PM, Miles Massicotte said:

LHO clearly had a strong working knowledge of Marxism and socialism, I agree, but also was clearly not the genuine believer he professed to be. No true blue Marxist I have ever heard of or read about would dare say "I am a Marxist but not a communist." That's the kind of thing you say if you want people to listen to you who are scared of the term "communism", as the American populace had been conditioned to be in the 1950s and 60s. LHO was selling himself to the radio/tv as a public Marxist, a rarity in those days. And clearly he did a fantastic job. Nearly everyone who submits to the lone nut narrative to this day almost immediately cites Oswald's "avowed Marxism" as a potential motive.

Actually, that’s incorrect, it’s a distinction that many true Marxists made from the 1930s on. Even in my college days there were clearly left ideologues whose study of Marx was quite serious but considered themselves to be anything but communists. I knew a lot of these people, I debated them constantly, and the dichotomy, especially in academia, is very, very common. In the radical days of Stalin, there was a constant battle between democratic socialists, ideological Marxists, Trotskyites, and flat out communists.  You have to look at the Geo political situation between Russia, China, and North Korea. There were thousands of American progressives who had heavy left views, but who  rejected communism. This was something Joseph McCarthy chose to ignore, and he chose instead to tar everyone on the left with the same brush.

Edited by Allen Lowe
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