The Iron Sights

[Gerry Down]

Interesting video showing the iron sights of a bolt action rifle being use to aim and fire.

On a secondary point, you can see how a Mannlicher Carcano could be confused with a Mauser.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Gerry Down

[Bob Ness]

4 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Interesting video showing the iron sights of a bolt action rifle being use to aim and fire.

On a secondary point, you can see how a Mannlicher Carcano could be confused with a Mauser.

 

8 seconds is what I have.

[Ron Bulman]

17 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

8 seconds is what I have.

From?  Fifty yards away?

[Bob Ness]

36 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

From?  Fifty yards away?

Yeah, I know.  The point is the time it takes to get the shots off.

[Benjamin Cole]

Q for anyone:

If we assume that the MC rifle was disassembled and re-assembled...would that mean the iron sights would have ben "dialed in" again?

I assume if the MC rifle was used 11/22, then the 4x scope was not used. Too jumpy for use on a moving target. 

[Gerry Down]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I assume if the MC rifle was used 11/22, then the 4x scope was not used. Too jumpy for use on a moving target. 

Larry Hancock made this very point on his most recent interview on "Out Of The Blank". Larry feels that only the iron sights could have been used in a rapid fire situation, as no hunter fires multiple rapid shots using the scope when shooting a deer for example.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

Larry Hancock made this very point on his most recent interview on "Out Of The Blank". Larry feels that only the iron sights could have been used in a rapid fire situation, as no hunter fires multiple rapid shots using the scope when shooting a deer for example.

I am not much experienced with firearms, but no one uses a scope to track a moving target. The target bounces wildly all around in or even outside the scope sight---I have experienced that myself. 

That why I am asking---if someone takes a rifle out of garage where it has laid for a few weeks or months, and disassembles it, and then re-assembles it, would the iron sights need readjustment.

A scope obviously would, nor could LHO have fired a few practice rounds to "dial the scope in." 

That leaves, by default, the iron sights. Can we assume the iron sights were dead on? 

The WC, and even the HSCA, are asking us to accept the one shot hit a moving JFK in the head, and another in the high neck. Another shot flew over the limo by 20 feet, or maybe struck the asphalt behind the limo. 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Q for anyone:

If we assume that the MC rifle was disassembled and re-assembled...would that mean the iron sights would have ben "dialed in" again?

I assume if the MC rifle was used 11/22, then the 4x scope was not used. Too jumpy for use on a moving target. 

I was told the iron rear sight was fixed (and part of the barrel), it did not have a dialing in option.

It was factory "pre-set" if you like, some sources say it was set at 200m, others say 300m...

With a rifle like that one would do some testing anyway to find out (at the same time looking for any L/R diversion).

In taking the rifle apart the barrel and rear sight stay together and the rifle's  "zero" remains as it was.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Gerry Down]

58 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

I was told the iron rear sight was fixed (and part of the barrel), it did not have a dialing in option.

It was factory "pre-set" if you like, some sources say it was set at 200m, others say 300m...

With a rifle like that one would do some testing anyway to find out (at the same time looking for any L/R diversion).

In taking the rifle apart the barrel and rear sight stay together and the rifle's  "zero" remains as it was.

 

 

 

 

 

Could this be the reason LHO missed Walker? The target was too close as per the preset of 200m? 

Though LHO specifically ordered a scope, so presumably he was intending to use the scope when shooting at Walker.

Also I don't think you could use iron sights at night time which was apparently when he planned to shoot Walker.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Gerry Down

[Evan Marshall]

We need to remember Oswald was trained on the M-1 Garand. A semiautomatic rifle that held 8 rounds  and was accurate. Why hesitate to steal an excellent rifle if you really planned to murder the President?

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Could this be the reason LHO missed Walker? The target was too close as per the preset of 200m? 

Though LHO specifically ordered a scope, so presumably he was intending to use the scope when shooting at Walker.

Also I don't think you could use iron sights at night time which was apparently when he planned to shoot Walker.

I had some conversations about this, from what I recall, one needs to take into account the speed of the bullet, low speed = higher arc, high speed : somewhat straighter arc (horizontal bullet trajectory).   The distance to Walker would have been like 30m ?  With a high-speed bullet and a preset at 200m, it should not differ much at only 30m, a few cm... Unless the shooter was very nervous and shaky...   But the whole "Walker shooting thing" is odd to me.  

This webpage has a nice and easy explanation : https://chuckhawks.com/bullet_trajectory.htm

 

[Guest]

On 1/20/2023 at 9:42 AM, Evan Marshall said:

We need to remember Oswald was trained on the M-1 Garand. A semiautomatic rifle that held 8 rounds  and was accurate. Why hesitate to steal an excellent rifle if you really planned to murder the President?

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Tom Gram]

Klein’s sold Enfields with no scope for $19.88 or something - cheaper than the scoped piece of crap Carcano: 

https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/rifle-info-kleins-advertising/717377?item=717387

There were two scope options, one $27.88 total and the other $42.88.

Still though, was a worthless Japanese scope really worth picking a MC over an Enfield? Was Oswald really that freaking clueless about guns? Was he really just hell bent on spending $7 on a garbage scope at the expense of obtaining a functioning, reliable rifle? 

Also, I think the iron sights would work just fine at night as long as you were looking at something fairly illuminated. 

[Evan Marshall]

less than 24 hrs before? Utter nonsense!

[Gerry Down]

36 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Klein’s sold Enfields with no scope for $19.88 or something - cheaper than the scoped piece of crap Carcano: 

https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/rifle-info-kleins-advertising/717377?item=717387

There were two scope options, one $27.88 total and the other $42.88.

Still though, was a worthless Japanese scope really worth picking a MC over an Enfield? Was Oswald really that freaking clueless about guns? Was he really just hell bent on spending $7 on a garbage scope at the expense of obtaining a functioning, reliable rifle? 

Also, I think the iron sights would work just fine at night as long as you were looking at something fairly illuminated. 

But would an Enfield fire a full metal jacket military round? I don't know much about rifles.

I think Oswald's plan was to fire a bullet through Walkers glass window to shoot Walker. To do that you would need a hard tipped full metal jacketed round rather than a soft tipped bullet. A soft tipped bullet would disintegrate upon contact with the glass.

Is that the reason LHO choose a mannlicher carcano? That was the cheapest rifle he could get that fired ammunition capable of going through a glass window?