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Why Do We Care?


Paul Troglia
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Hello to all:

I am the guy who started the string called "Why Was the Assassination Necessary?" I asked that question as a challenge to conspiracy theories, not as justification for them. I think Oswald did it alone.

What has emerged from the give and take of that discussion offers, at least to me, a topic worthy of a parallel string. And that is this: Why do you care?

That may sound blunt, and maybe the answer (I assume it is for Truth, Justice and the American Way) is obvious, but there must be something else. The erudition, the detail, the credible fine-tuning of analysis, and the passion you bring to the debate is beyond the obvious to me. We're in the third generation since the assassination, the significant players are all dead, the "usual suspects" are all dead (Castro must mainline St. John's Wort), everything but a confession has been wrung out of the few witnessses alive today, certainly "The Conspiracy" is dead. Kids point to the evidence on field trips to the archives and giggle--a bloody shirt, Exhibit 399, a Manlicher-Carcano-- and, yes, I know, you can see the autopsy on the Internet. I believe if someone were to give a death-bed confession to everything while connected to a lie detector, the pursuit still would not end.

One of the members in this forum, Dawn Meredith, said something in one of her posts that was intriguing. She thought the passion was spiritual. Is that it? I have to know. The answer may be the only pure, clean thing to come out of that dreadful day so many years ago.

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I'm in this to help set the record straight, as much as it can be. (I'm over being angry or believing that American democracy can somehow be saved. It's much too far gone.) I'm also fascinated by denial (of which I was a victim myself for years) and its calculated perpetuation. And I'm frankly amazed by the fact that there are people who, having considered all the evidence, still think Oswald did it alone. (I don't waste time arguing with them, like I don't waste time arguing with young-Earth creationists. Bill Miller has spent endless hours arguing with a Posnerite named David von Pein on Lancer, for reasons perhaps Bill can explain.) In sum, it's an endlessly fascinating tragedy, and trying to solve it is a most honorable and worthwhile intellectual endeavor. It's also the least we can do for Jack Kennedy.

Ron

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simple....

Because if LHO didn't do it alone....everything else is a lie.

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Why do we care?

IMO the key is the future and to master the future we have to understand the past.

The intrest an the pressure in the JFK assasination also makes it more difficult to

repeat such a thing in the future.

I’m not saying that today an assasination of a US-president is impossible but such a cover-up for sure would not be sucessful because so many would remember. So IMO the Americans have learned something.

Unfortunatly in Europe we don’t. Just take the assasination of Olof Palme as an example.

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Hello to all:

We're in the third generation since the assassination, the significant players are all dead, the "usual suspects" are all dead... everything but a confession has been wrung out of the few witnesses alive today, certainly "The Conspiracy" is dead.  I believe if someone were to give a death-bed confession to everything while connected to a lie detector, the pursuit still would not end. 

One of the members in this forum, Dawn Meredith, said something in one of her posts that was intriguing.  She thought the passion was spiritual.  Is that it?  I have to know.  The answer may be the only pure, clean thing to come out of that dreadful day so many years ago.

Paul,

First of all, several of the significant players are still alive. Secondly, I won't give a speech about truth, justice and the American way(well, maybe justice). What bothers me the most is that several agencies of the United States government and its employees were either involved, had prior knowledge of the event, or knew what happened after the fact, and did or said nothing. For me there is nothing spiritual about it. The President was murdered as a result of a conspiracy, for political reasons, whatever they may be. Everyone has their own opinion as to why, and I have mine, but the basic fact of the matter is that there are conspirators running around free, the US government knows it, and in many cases, has protected them and covered up their deed for 41 years. It's about time the lies stop, and those responsible are identified and dealt with.

RJS

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Hello to all:

We're in the third generation since the assassination, the significant players are all dead, the "usual suspects" are all dead... everything but a confession has been wrung out of the few witnesses alive today, certainly "The Conspiracy" is dead.  I believe if someone were to give a death-bed confession to everything while connected to a lie detector, the pursuit still would not end. 

One of the members in this forum, Dawn Meredith, said something in one of her posts that was intriguing.  She thought the passion was spiritual.  Is that it?   I have to know.  The answer may be the only pure, clean thing to come out of that dreadful day so many years ago.

Paul,

First of all, several of the significant players are still alive. Secondly, I won't give a speech about truth, justice and the American way(well, maybe justice). What bothers me the most is that several agencies of the United States government and its employees were either involved, had prior knowledge of the event, or knew what happened after the fact, and did or said nothing. For me there is nothing spiritual about it. The President was murdered as a result of a conspiracy, for political reasons, whatever they may be. Everyone has their own opinion as to why, and I have mine, but the basic fact of the matter is that there are conspirators running around free, the US government knows it, and in many cases, has protected them and covered up their deed for 41 years. It's about time the lies stop, and those responsible are identified and dealt with.

RJS

______________________________---

I am not sure what Paul and now RJS is referring to, if I ever used the word "spiritual" in any contxt with the assassination of jfk it could only have to do with the fact that I equate "spreading the TRUTH about the conspiracy of the assassination" to "spreading the Gospel". For me it is all the same thing. Lisa Pease and I had a great email exchange about this right after Gary Webb died .

She referred to someone at the memorial saying that (and this is a parphrase) their God is Jusitce, or perhaps it was Truth, forget the exact words, but it lead to a series of emails with Lisa and I on this subject. Being TRUTH and it's importance, no matter what the subjcet. How the Republicans in the WH lie and call themselves Godly men and how ugly that is. SO I do not have time to find the post now referred to twice, but if I used the word "spiritual" it was in that sense. That for me trying to educate people to the fact that we have a government and media of liars is a spiritual experience for me. Sorry if this is not as coherent as I would like. Late for court and will be gone all day so wanted to respond to this.

Dawn

ps Paul

Why do you keep starting threads on this forum since you have made clear that you believe LHO did it alone?????

thanx in advance for your response..

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Part of the problem in identifying culprits and bringing them to justice is that apathy is abroad in the land. It's been that way for a while (the movie JFK causing only a brief blip of interest but at least getting a records law passed).

When the HSCA concluded that JFK died probably as the result of a conspiracy, all that I recall happening was a gigantic yawn in America. I remember Oglesby writing briefly on this somewhere, something about how he couldn't figure out the American people, but I've been unable to find the passage.

Polls say that most Americans believe there was a conspiracy, but at the same time it's obvious that those same people don't care. That's why I see working on this case as mainly an academic exercise. I don't see it leading to justice. But I hope I'm wrong.

Ron

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Hello to all:

We're in the third generation since the assassination, the significant players are all dead, the "usual suspects" are all dead... everything but a confession has been wrung out of the few witnesses alive today, certainly "The Conspiracy" is dead.  I believe if someone were to give a death-bed confession to everything while connected to a lie detector, the pursuit still would not end. 

One of the members in this forum, Dawn Meredith, said something in one of her posts that was intriguing.  She thought the passion was spiritual.  Is that it?   I have to know.  The answer may be the only pure, clean thing to come out of that dreadful day so many years ago.

Paul,

First of all, several of the significant players are still alive. Secondly, I won't give a speech about truth, justice and the American way(well, maybe justice). What bothers me the most is that several agencies of the United States government and its employees were either involved, had prior knowledge of the event, or knew what happened after the fact, and did or said nothing. For me there is nothing spiritual about it. The President was murdered as a result of a conspiracy, for political reasons, whatever they may be. Everyone has their own opinion as to why, and I have mine, but the basic fact of the matter is that there are conspirators running around free, the US government knows it, and in many cases, has protected them and covered up their deed for 41 years. It's about time the lies stop, and those responsible are identified and dealt with.

RJS

______________________________---

I am not sure what Paul and now RJS is referring to, if I ever used the word "spiritual" in any contxt with the assassination of jfk it could only have to do with the fact that I equate "spreading the TRUTH about the conspiracy of the assassination" to "spreading the Gospel". For me it is all the same thing. Lisa Pease and I had a great email exchange about this right after Gary Webb died .

She referred to someone at the memorial saying that (and this is a parphrase) their God is Jusitce, or perhaps it was Truth, forget the exact words, but it lead to a series of emails with Lisa and I on this subject. Being TRUTH and it's importance, no matter what the subjcet. How the Republicans in the WH lie and call themselves Godly men and how ugly that is. SO I do not have time to find the post now referred to twice, but if I used the word "spiritual" it was in that sense. That for me trying to educate people to the fact that we have a government and media of liars is a spiritual experience for me. Sorry if this is not as coherent as I would like. Late for court and will be gone all day so wanted to respond to this.

Dawn

ps Paul

Why do you keep starting threads on this forum since you have made clear that you believe LHO did it alone?????

thanx in advance for your response..

Hello Dawn,

This is your reference to spirituality I mentioned.

SO forums do matter. YOu find others who care as much as you do. And some who just say they do. You develop the instinct to know the difference. It's virtual spiritual warfare. But then, look at the damn wold....duh.

Dawn..

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Hello to all:

We're in the third generation since the assassination, the significant players are all dead, the "usual suspects" are all dead... everything but a confession has been wrung out of the few witnesses alive today, certainly "The Conspiracy" is dead.  I believe if someone were to give a death-bed confession to everything while connected to a lie detector, the pursuit still would not end. 

One of the members in this forum, Dawn Meredith, said something in one of her posts that was intriguing.  She thought the passion was spiritual.  Is that it?   I have to know.  The answer may be the only pure, clean thing to come out of that dreadful day so many years ago.

Paul,

First of all, several of the significant players are still alive. Secondly, I won't give a speech about truth, justice and the American way(well, maybe justice). What bothers me the most is that several agencies of the United States government and its employees were either involved, had prior knowledge of the event, or knew what happened after the fact, and did or said nothing. For me there is nothing spiritual about it. The President was murdered as a result of a conspiracy, for political reasons, whatever they may be. Everyone has their own opinion as to why, and I have mine, but the basic fact of the matter is that there are conspirators running around free, the US government knows it, and in many cases, has protected them and covered up their deed for 41 years. It's about time the lies stop, and those responsible are identified and dealt with.

RJS

______________________________---

I am not sure what Paul and now RJS is referring to, if I ever used the word "spiritual" in any contxt with the assassination of jfk it could only have to do with the fact that I equate "spreading the TRUTH about the conspiracy of the assassination" to "spreading the Gospel". For me it is all the same thing. Lisa Pease and I had a great email exchange about this right after Gary Webb died .

She referred to someone at the memorial saying that (and this is a parphrase) their God is Jusitce, or perhaps it was Truth, forget the exact words, but it lead to a series of emails with Lisa and I on this subject. Being TRUTH and it's importance, no matter what the subjcet. How the Republicans in the WH lie and call themselves Godly men and how ugly that is. SO I do not have time to find the post now referred to twice, but if I used the word "spiritual" it was in that sense. That for me trying to educate people to the fact that we have a government and media of liars is a spiritual experience for me. Sorry if this is not as coherent as I would like. Late for court and will be gone all day so wanted to respond to this.

Dawn

ps Paul

Why do you keep starting threads on this forum since you have made clear that you believe LHO did it alone?????

thanx in advance for your response..

Because it's supposed to be a debate. PT

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Paul Troglia Posted Today, 02:53 AM

  Hello to all:

I am the guy who started the string called "Why Was the Assassination Necessary?" I asked that question as a challenge to conspiracy theories, not as justification for them. I think Oswald did it alone.

What has emerged from the give and take of that discussion offers, at least to me, a topic worthy of a parallel string. And that is this: Why do you care?

That may sound blunt, and maybe the answer (I assume it is for Truth, Justice and the American Way) is obvious, but there must be something else. The erudition, the detail, the credible fine-tuning of analysis, and the passion you bring to the debate is beyond the obvious to me. We're in the third generation since the assassination, the significant players are all dead, the "usual suspects" are all dead (Castro must mainline St. John's Wort), everything but a confession has been wrung out of the few witnessses alive today, certainly "The Conspiracy" is dead. Kids point to the evidence on field trips to the archives and giggle--a bloody shirt, Exhibit 399, a Manlicher-Carcano-- and, yes, I know, you can see the autopsy on the Internet. I believe if someone were to give a death-bed confession to everything while connected to a lie detector, the pursuit still would not end.

One of the members in this forum, Dawn Meredith, said something in one of her posts that was intriguing. She thought the passion was spiritual. Is that it? I have to know. The answer may be the only pure, clean thing to come out of that dreadful day so many years ago.

Some reasons:

* The more I read and hear about this, the more it seems like a conspiracy; the more interesting it gets.

* The official government investigators, didn't follow-up with any evidence pointing towards a conspiracy.

* So many pieces of evidence and so many documents were classified and locked up due to reasons of "National Security".

* Oswalds tax records are classified, due to "National Security".

* According to several sources, witness statements were altered.

* The alleged murder weapon could not have been used with the accuracy as seen on 11/22/1963. Reasons: misaligned scope, weapon in poor state and also of sub-standard quality, furthermore tests to replicate have shown that the shots were "impossible" to complete with the weapon and under the circumstances.

* Apparently at least 2 Carcanos have been entered as evidence at different times (with the same serial numbers). Yes, same number but not identical impression of serial number on the 2 weapons. Also one had a sling attached to the bottom of the weapon, whereas the other had a side attachment.

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Hi Antti,

I think your first reason is probably going to come out as the big one for most people. The more you read, the more it seems like something else, and the more interesting it becomes. Let me ask you, would you continue to explore the assassination if it got boring?

Thanks Antti, you have been most helpful, as have the other members. PT

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Thank you, Ron, for your response. For my own peace of mind, let me ask you: If conspirators were caught and charged, but did not satisfy your interpretation of the crime, would you continue the academic exercise?

By the way, your earlier post saying that solving the crime is an honorable and worthwhile endeavor and the least we can do for Kennedy, was well said. And something I think we both agree on.

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Paul Troglia Posted Yesterday, 03:35 PM

  Hi Antti,

I think your first reason is probably going to come out as the big one for most people. The more you read, the more it seems like something else, and the more interesting it becomes. Let me ask you, would you continue to explore the assassination if it got boring?

Thanks Antti, you have been most helpful, as have the other members. PT

Hi Paul, Thanks for your comments.

Probably not, however, that would involve receiving explanations for the many issues which remain suspicious to say the least.

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Antti wrote:

Some reasons:

* The more I read and hear about this, the more it seems like a conspiracy; the more interesting it gets.

* The official government investigators, didn't follow-up with any evidence pointing towards a conspiracy.

* So many pieces of evidence and so many documents were classified and locked up due to reasons of "National Security".

* Oswalds tax records are classified, due to "National Security".

* According to several sources, witness statements were altered.

* The alleged murder weapon could not have been used with the accuracy as seen on 11/22/1963. Reasons: misaligned scope, weapon in poor state and also of sub-standard quality, furthermore tests to replicate have shown that the shots were "impossible" to complete with the weapon and under the circumstances.

* Apparently at least 2 Carcanos have been entered as evidence at different times (with the same serial numbers). Yes, same number but not identical impression of serial number on the 2 weapons. Also one had a sling attached to the bottom of the weapon, whereas the other had a side attachment.

How well said! With respect to the first, I would also add, what a cast of characters: from the baron in Dallas, to the dapper Los Angeles mafioso running CIA powerboats into Cuba; to the Kennedy brothers and the Castro brothers; David Ferrie; Guy Banister: Robert Maheu; and let's not forget Judith Campbell and Ellen Rometsch: Hollywood could never come up with a cast like this! So not only is thye mystery important it is also, as you say, interesting; I'd say fascinating!

Edited by Tim Gratz
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* Oswalds tax records are classified, due to "National Security".

Antti,

Lee Oswald's tax returns are not classified. The release of documents under the JFK Act does not include tax records. Tax returns are confidential and can only be released by authorization from the subject party or in this case, his widow. Marina did sign a waiver releasing Lee's tax returns.

http://www.jfklancer.com/LHOtax.html

RJS

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