Ron Ecker Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 It appears from the Ravens website where his photo is found (link below) that Pakse Base Man was one of the Ravens, USAF volunteers flying as forward air controllers out of Pakse in the late 1960s and early 1970s. If he was indeed a regular USAF pilot prior to the CIA's creation of the Ravens in Laos in 1966, it's doubtful he would have been in Laos in 1963, or in Dallas except by some remote coincidence. This leads me to believe that Pakse Base Man and the man on the lamp post at Main and Houston were not the same person, despite the striking resemblance. http://www.ravens.org/kham/kham.htm Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 It appears from the Ravens website where his photo is found (link below) that Pakse Base Man was one of the Ravens, USAF volunteers flying as forward air controllers out of Pakse in the late 1960s and early 1970s. If he was indeed a regular USAF pilot prior to the CIA's creation of the Ravens in Laos in 1966, it's doubtful he would have been in Laos in 1963, or in Dallas except by some remote coincidence. This leads me to believe that Pakse Base Man and the man on the lamp post at Main and Houston were not the same person, despite the striking resemblance. http://www.ravens.org/kham/kham.htm Ron <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Ron, Thanks for the link to that web site. It's a good one. The whole Pakse Base Man thing came about after I did a photo montage for Larry Hancock's book which was related to David Morales being the Base Chief at Pakse in 1966. That photo was one of those used. The resemblance to the man on the lightpole in Dealey Plaza was noticed and what ifs were asked. I do not believe Pakse Base Man and Lightpole Man are one in the same. I also have my doubts that David Morales is Lightpole Man. FWIW. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J. Smith Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 It appears from the Ravens website where his photo is found (link below) that Pakse Base Man was one of the Ravens, USAF volunteers flying as forward air controllers out of Pakse in the late 1960s and early 1970s. If he was indeed a regular USAF pilot prior to the CIA's creation of the Ravens in Laos in 1966, it's doubtful he would have been in Laos in 1963, or in Dallas except by some remote coincidence. This leads me to believe that Pakse Base Man and the man on the lamp post at Main and Houston were not the same person, despite the striking resemblance. http://www.ravens.org/kham/kham.htm Ron <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Ron, Thanks for the link to that web site. It's a good one. The whole Pakse Base Man thing came about after I did a photo montage for Larry Hancock's book which was related to David Morales being the Base Chief at Pakse in 1966. That photo was one of those used. The resemblance to the man on the lightpole in Dealey Plaza was noticed and what ifs were asked. I do not believe Pakse Base Man and Lightpole Man are one in the same. I also have my doubts that David Morales is Lightpole Man. FWIW. James <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ron and James, The man in question having been named Pakse Base Man was confirmed to me after 6 months of fairly intense research as being a CIA case officer. He was not a Raven FAC. The Ravens I was in contact with dropped me like a hot potato when I pressed them for info. There were indeed CIA reps at Long Tieng, as at other bases in Laos. I attempted to contact the photographer(Chaophakhao Red), who is currently living in the States. He would not speak to me. I am absolutely convinced PBM (or LTM) is the man on the lamppost at Main and Houston, and FWIW, anyone can tell that Lamppost Man is not Morales. Not even close. RJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Richard, Thanks for the info. So was this CIA case officer at Pakse or Long Tieng? At which placed was the photo taken? Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J. Smith Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Richard,Thanks for the info. So was this CIA case officer at Pakse or Long Tieng? At which placed was the photo taken? Ron <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ron, The photo was taken at Long Tieng 1970. Whether our guy moved between bases is anyone's guess. There isn't just a "likeness" with Lamppost Man, they are identical. As Tim Carroll once noted, the smirk is a dead giveaway. I would post a photo overlay comparison, but unless I delete my Head Wound seminar photos, I can't. Not ready to do that yet. RJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanet Clark Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I thought D. Morales was one of the principals who was so deeply into the scheme that he really needed an alibi, and so he stayed in Miami, while the spotters, radio, drivers, abort teams and sweep teams went in to Dallas and turned up on camera... the McCord photo is very clear, as is the Rip Robertson frame... I believe we have also I.D.'d the umbrella "sitting on the curb" team. But was Morales is Dallas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J. Smith Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I thought D. Morales was one of the principals who was so deeply into the schemethat he really needed an alibi, and so he stayed in Miami, while the spotters, radio, drivers, abort teams and sweep teams went in to Dallas and turned up on camera... the McCord photo is very clear, as is the Rip Robertson frame... I believe we have also I.D.'d the umbrella "sitting on the curb" team. But was Morales is Dallas? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shanet, There are those who believe Morales was in Dallas, but based only on speculation and not much else. If I recall, someone here posted a document that indeed indicated Morales was in Miami at JM/WAVE. I've seen no proof he was in Dallas. As for the lookalikes, there are several others, including James Lewis, who I think is the "other" guy on the lamppost at Main and Houston. Regarding the "umbrella team", there is still some debate in our community. Orlando Bosch Avila or Filipe Vidal Santiago as Dark Complected Man, and Roy Hargraves or Gordon Novel as Umbrella Man. My vote is for Vidal and Novel. RJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Excellent stuff Richard, The reason why I believe DCM and UM are Felipe Vidal and Hargraves is these two worked ALOT together, these two were very close and trusted one another. I havent heard of Felipe Vidal and Novel ever working on mission together, If they have I am all ears.IMHO If that is Felipe then the chances of the other being Hargraves is very high. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J. Smith Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Excellent stuff Richard,The reason why I believe DCM and UM are Felipe Vidal and Hargraves is these two worked ALOT together, these two were very close and trusted one another. I havent heard of Felipe Vidal and Novel ever working on mission together, If they have I am all ears.IMHO If that is Felipe then the chances of the other being Hargraves is very high. JMHO <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ryan, Good to hear from you bud. Hope all is well on the left coast and you didn't experience any mudslides or flooding. Good assesment on the Umbrella team. On paper, I would go with Hargraves as UM also, but I have a hard time getting by the comparative photos of UM and Novel. Novel is the spitting image of UM. If I recall from an interview with Hargraves, he said Vidal was indeed in DP that day. How else would he know except through personal experience and contact? We've just proven like everything else in this case, there is still doubt. RJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The man in question having been named Pakse Base Man was confirmed to me after 6 months of fairly intense research as being a CIA case officer. (Richard J. Smith) Hi Richard, You are right about PBM being a CIA case officer. BTW, when you were checking all of this out, did you ever come across the name Don Stephens? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 (edited) Here's the overlay from Richard comparing PBM to Morales and to Lamppost Man. Ron Edited January 19, 2005 by Ron Ecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J. Smith Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The man in question having been named Pakse Base Man was confirmed to me after 6 months of fairly intense research as being a CIA case officer. (Richard J. Smith)Hi Richard, You are right about PBM being a CIA case officer. BTW, when you were checking all of this out, did you ever come across the name Don Stephens? James <{POST_SNAPBACK}> James, No, but I did come across another CIA case officer in Laos named George Henning. Still working on a contact. RJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J. Smith Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Here's the overlay from Richard comparing PBM to Morales and to Lamppost Man.Ron <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ron, Excellent, thank you. I think this comparison is pretty conclusive Lamppost Man wasn't Morales. But the case officer from Long Tieng(or PBM as we've labeled him) is a dead ringer. His close proximity to the James Lewis lookalike(the other guy on the lamppost), and the Conein lookalike at the corner of Houston and Main certainly makes for interesting conversation. RJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 No, but I did come across another CIA case officer in Laos named George Henning. Still working on a contact. (Richard J. Smith) Good stuff, Richard. Another guy there at the time was Major Wil Greene, probably army. I think he was a part of 'Shining Brass' which became 'Praire Fire' just after Morales settled in. If you do work an 'in road' here, you might want to pursue Don Stephens as he was the man who put together CIA backed paramilitary units. Hmong Freedom Fighters were often recruited but those individual ghosts of past horrors played a part as well. Stephens and Morales knew them from previous operations. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) Excellent, thank you. I think this comparison is pretty conclusive Lamppost Man wasn't Morales. But the case officer from Long Tieng(or PBM as we've labeled him) is a dead ringer. His close proximity to the James Lewis lookalike(the other guy on the lamppost), and the Conein lookalike at the corner of Houston and Main certainly makes for interesting conversation. (Richard J. Smith) Hi Richard, Can I also throw Rip Robertson into that mix loitering at the corner of Main and Houston? Let's say for argument sake PBM is the guy standing on the pole in Dealey Plaza, then we also have James Arthur Lewis and Rip Robertson - all solidly connected to David Morales (conceding that PBM was after Dallas). Robertson and Lewis were participants on 'Operation Tilt' which puts them in Morales' employ. It sure would be fascinating to know what PBM was doing before Laos. If he was stationed at JM/WAVE, wouldn't that be something? The attachment below shows James Arthur Lewis (on the left) during 'Operation Tilt'. James Edited January 20, 2005 by James Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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