Leopoldo and Angel

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Who else knew that Lee Harvey Oswald (like ex-General Walker) was making speeches in Dallas to Cuban Exiles?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Well, Nico Crespi, who was evidently an anti-Castro acquaintance or colleague of Loran Hall's, knew that Oswald was making speeches in Dallas, and, suspecting LHO of being a double agent (i.e. pro Castro), was on his way downtown to "heckle" him one day in early October, 1963.

--Tommy

Tommy [...],

[...] Lee Harvey Oswald in this scenario was addressing Cuban Exiles like Sylvia Odio who hated Castro fiercely. Therefore, the speech that Oswald delivered in Dallas to the Cuban Exiles was anti-Castro. If that isn't obvious please tell me why.

[...]

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

Well obviously, if LHO was making speeches to small groups of (presumably) anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Dallas, it only makes sense that he was making anti-Castro speeches to them. Otherwise, those "hot blooded" Cuban exiles would have physically attacked him, IMHO, and we would know all about that from press reports, police reports, FBI reports, etc. So, given the fact that LHO was most likely making anti-Castro speeches, Nico Crespi's telling Hall that he was going downtown to "heckle" LHO suggests to me that Crespi thought that Oswald was only pretending to be anti-Castro. Instead of thinking that LHO was really pro-Castro, maybe he thought that LHO was trying to penetrate some anti-Castro groups for a governmental agency or two...

--Tommy

Edited November 10, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

Well obviously, if LHO was making speeches to small groups of (presumably) anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Dallas, it only makes sense that he was making anti-Castro speeches to them. Otherwise, those "hot blooded" Cuban exiles would have physically attacked him, IMHO, and we would know all about that from press reports, police reports, FBI reports, etc. So, given the fact that LHO was most likely making anti-Castro speeches, Nico Crespi's telling Hall that he was going downtown to "heckle" LHO suggests to me that Crespi thought that Oswald was only pretending to be anti-Castro. Instead of thinking that LHO was really pro-Castro, maybe he thought that LHO was trying to penetrate some anti-Castro groups for a governmental agency or two...

--Tommy

OK, Tommy, I can accept that. Yet look at the further implications. Mrs. Connell told the FBI that Sylvia Odio confessed to her that Odio's friend called "somebody" in New Orleans about LHO, and that "somebody" called back to warn her friend to stay away from LHO because he was a "double-agent."

Now - you're statement above suspects that Nico Crespi himself believed that LHO was a double-agent. That could suggest that Nico Crespi was himself the "somebody" to whom Sylvia Odio referred in her confession to Connell.

Also, I will hazard another guess here: when Sylvia Odio said her "friend" called "somebody" in New Orleans, she was being very careful to avoid naming names. My first guess would be that this "friend" was Sylvia Odio herself. The "somebody" would be a member of the Cuban Exile community whom she knew was well connected and well informed.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[David Boylan]

Paul,

Sylvia spoke to her uncle Agustin Guitart. I believe her uncle was in the courtroom when Oswald was arraigned.

Edited November 10, 2012 by David Boylan

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

Sylvia spoke to her uncle Agustin Guitart. I believe her uncle was in the courtroom when Oswald was arraigned.

Well, David, that episode of Sylvia Odio calling her uncle, Agustin Guitar, was part of her testimony to the Warren Commission. However, the Warren Commission determined that her call to her uncle occurred in February of 1964. The topic of their conversation was specifically about the scuffle between Lee Harvey Oswald and Carlos Bringuier in New Orleans in August of 1963, when Bringuier and Oswald were arrested and this made the newspapers. Her uncle followed the case closely, because their family knew "Carlitos" (little Carlos) since he was a child.

However the phone call I'm referring to occurred before September 1963, as I figure it.

Here's the FBI report in summary: Sylvia Odio called Mrs. Connell by telephone on Thursday, November 28 (only six days after the JFK assassination) and told her that she had seen Lee Harvey Oswald making speeches in Dallas to Cuban Exiles earlier in 1963. Connell did not provide the dates of those speeches.

In that same call to Connell, Sylvia Odio also told Connell that "her friend" called "somebody" in New Orleans to ask about Oswald. So, that "somebody" call also occurred earlier in 1963. Shortly afterwards, that "somebody" returned the call to "her friend" to report that Oswald was probably a "double agent." All these calls, by my reading, occurred before the JFK assassination in 1963.

The call you're referring to, David, occurred in February, 1964, according to the Warren Commission volumes.

Now, let's stretch the envelope a little more here. Sylvia Odio's uncle, Agustin Guitar, would have read about the scuffle between Oswald and Bringuier in the newspapers in New Orleans, because Bringuier was a Cuban Exile, and Cubans would have been interested in his story.

Sylvia Odio's uncle probably also heard Oswald on the radio pretending to be an FPCC officer, and probably believed that Oswald was an FPCC officer.

Her uncle probably also saw Oswald on TV pretending to be an FPCC officer, and enjoying a political debate with Carlos Bringuier and Ed Butler, and probably believed the pretense -- that Oswald really was an FPCC officer.

In other words, her uncle (I am presuming here, in the absense of other information) her uncle probably believed the New Orleans newspapers, radio program and TV program that all promoted the idea that Lee Harvey Oswald was an officer of the FPCC, which was clearly a Communist organization. That is, Agustin Guitar probably believed that LHO was a Communist.

HOWEVER, Nico Crespi, as Tommy noted, knew that Oswald was making a speech in Dallas for anti-Castro, Anticommunist Cuban Exiles. Now, Nico Crespi told Loran Hall that he was on his way to "heckle" Oswald, and Tommy plausible argues that he did this because he believed that Oswald was a "double agent".

It is this concept -- that Oswald was a "double agent" -- that makes a linguistic linkage between the "somebody" of the 1963 phone call that Sylvia Odio told Mrs. Connell about, and Nico Crespi.

I realize this is not proof -- but it could be a clue.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited November 11, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Guest Tom Scully]

Paul, I am not going to post quotes of the many instances in which you give the impression you are "all in" when it comes to Edwin Walker's central role in the conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy. Maybe it is only your style of writing, but my point in my last post is that there are compelling and long standing reasons for the opportunity to closely link Walker to be more elusive than you project. As you can see in recent exchanges on this thread, researchers with a much greater command of the entire history than you presently exhibit have been over this ground and have moved on. My tone may seem discouraging, but I am suggesting that you should get yourself more up to speed before drawing the inferences you post, related to Walker. It is difficult to have discussions with a researcher who posts he is flexible and openminded but emphasizes links no one else has put as much stock in. I've posted much about Henry Crown and Patrick Hoy. The details related to them are not about plowing old ground. JFK leased the Virginia estate of Patrick Hoy's principal sponsor before he was offered a job by Henry Crown.

I can post away without running into the problem I see you to be burdened with,because on the research of Byfield, Hoy, Crown, I am plowing new ground. Many have looked already where you are looking, have a greater understanding of much more background than you. You do not seem to take that into account. I suggest that you give those who have been into this Walker related research before you, more credit for what they have not put as much importance on. Just my two cents.

http://spot.acorn.ne...h_Issue/10.html

The Odio-Connell Mystery

For years, a widely accepted part of JFK assassination lore has been the story of Cuban émigré Silvia Odio and her encounter with three men--an encounter that many researchers regard as the clearest indication of conspiracy in the entire case..........

The FBI report quoted above further states that "Connell knew of no connection between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald." And it adds that Connell, through Odio, had met a man identified to her only as "Mr. Martin," who "Odio stated had tried to obtain guns for the Cuban people in their contemplated overthrow of Castro sometime ago." That is, Connell linked Silvia Odio to anti-Castro gunrunners.

After a separate interview with Silvia Odio, FBI agents wrote that she

emphatically denied that she had ever told Mrs. C.L. Connell that Lee Harvey Oswald had made talks to small groups of Cuban refugees in Dallas. She similarly denied knowledge of ever telling Mrs. Connell that a Cuban associate of hers had called anyone in New Orleans regarding Oswald, in which this Cuban friend had been advised that Oswald was a double agent...In reply to a question as to why Mrs. Connell would attribute such a statement to her, Miss Odio stated that "You would have to be a woman to understand." She stated that Mrs. Connell and she had been friends, but due to personal reasons, they had had a falling out. [4]

The Commission asked Silvia Odio about Connell's charges when she testified before them in 1964, but she insisted there was nothing to them.

......Prior to Dr. Scott, no conspiracy author had ever mentioned the Lucille Connell allegations, as far as I can tell--not even to discredit them. In The Last Investigation, Gaeton Fonzi refers to Connell only insofar as she seems to have been instrumental in Silvia Odio's decision to move to Dallas. Sylvia Meagher, in Accessories After the Fact, mentions the same FBI report quoted by Dr. Scott, but says only that "a woman friend in whom Mrs. Odio had confided" told the FBI about Odio's mysterious visitors. Meagher fails to note Connell's other charges. Even Gerald Posner let the Connell issue slide in Case Closed, mentioning it only to suggest Silvia Odio may have told conflicting stories. Never mind the questions the Connell version raises.

Fair Play had an opportunity to direct a question about this to Gaeton Fonzi. It was Fonzi who wrote that Odio's story "absolutely cries conspiracy," and that "I have no hesitation in declaring the Kennedy assassination a conspiracy based strictly on Silvia Odio's consistently credible testimony and, more important, the fact that our investigation proved it true." He has probably studied the Odio affair as thoroughly as anyone, through his work with the HSCA and subsequent investigation.

Mr. Fonzi was to be interviewed by the South Florida Researcher's Group, which had solicited questions from the research community. The essentials of what I have come to think of as the Odio/Connell mystery were written up and submitted on behalf of Fair Play magazine; the interview was conducted on October 8, 1994.

Q. What does Connell's earlier story say about Silvia Odio's credibility?

Fonzi: I'll tell you this now off the top of my head. I spent an awful lot of time, of course, with Silvia Odio, questioning and re-questioning her. Not only myself, but other investigators and attorneys for the Committee. And came to the conclusion that she is totally credible. And not only did I come to this conclusion, but the attorneys questioning her and other investigators, and the Committee, said [so] in its report.

Q. Have you questioned Odio about Connell's claim? Has Connell's story been investigated and refuted beyond Odio's own denials?

Fonzi: Now as far as, again off the top of my head, when I talked to Connell. I talked to her a few times also. I had a difficult time getting her to corroborate what was in the FBI reports, as far as what she said earlier. And I have to admit that I was suspicious of Connell in terms of her activities. I mean, she was a volunteer for this Cuban refugee agency...The relationship between Silvia Odio and Connell deteriorated tremendously prior to the Oswald [incident], what I call the Oswald incident, as a result of Mrs. Connell specifically wanting to infiltrate herself into Silvia Odio's total life. Knowing what Silvia was doing every minute. That was according to Silvia Odio herself. And that's why they had a falling out. Mrs. Connell did not initially know Silvia Odio, but was introduced to her by her sister Sarita who had come to Dallas earlier and who Mrs. Connell had befriended. I can say in answer to the question specifically, that regardless of the contradictions that Mrs. Connell herself put forth in terms of Silvia Odio's testimony. All the evidence that we came up [with] went towards Silvia Odio's credibility.

This is not as thorough an answer as I hoped for when the questions were submitted in late August. Still unanswered are the specific allegations made by Lucille Connell thirty-one years ago. Was Silvia Odio questioned about these allegations? At this point I do not know. However, Mr. Fonzi did state during his October 8 interview, "This is a question, as I think I mentioned earlier, that I have, I think I have, specific answers to in the files. And I haven't had a chance to review the files." Fair Play is following up this matter and will report on it again in a future issue.

Did Odio and Oswald know each other? Was Odio connected to individuals who considered Oswald a "double agent" who "should not be trusted"? Was Connell part of some as-yet unidentified disinformation campaign? Or is there some other explanation? Has Connell's story been investigated beyond Odio's own denials?

These questions are not answerable at this stage. While Mr. Fonzi casts doubt on Lucille Connell's credibility, the charges she made in 1963 remain unanswered and scarcely noticed--one of the many ongoing mysteries in the assassination of President Kennedy.

http://spot.acorn.ne...sue/update.html

The Odio-Connell Mystery: an Update

At the conclusion of the article "The Odio-Connell Mystery," which appeared in the second issue of Fair Play magazine, I wondered whether there was more to the Silvia Odio story than was generally accepted, and whether Gaeton Fonzi might have more information in his files that could shed additional light on what seemed an under-investigated aspect of the JFK case.

A copy of the article was forwarded to Mr. Fonzi via snailmail. He replied in a letter to Fair Play, and said, in essence, that I was making a mountain out of a molehill.

I just don't see the "unanswered" questions being as much of a mystery as you make them out to be. The bottom line is that Mrs. Connell did not corrorborate that FBI report and that Silvia Odio specifically denied what the FBI claimed Connell said.

Mr. Fonzi added that he had checked his files on this matter, and he was kind enough to forward extracts from "my rough notes that indicate what Connell told me." These extracts are reprinted here:

"She [silvia Odio] did tell me [Lucille Connell] she was involved in the underground, in Cuban work, but she never gave me any details about what that was."

re: day of assassination:

"So then I was talking to another Cuban, the daughter of Mr. Insua, who is head of the Cuban Relief Committee there...No, first I talked to Silvia's sister myself who said that Silvia said that she knew Oswald. She called to tell me that Silvia had been taken to the hospital when she heard that Kennedy was shot and that Oswald was responsible. She fell unconscious at her desk. It was the first spell she had in quite a long time."

re: FBI reports:

Connell: I really don't recall her telling me all that at this time, but after all it's been thirteen years ago. I just recall that he [Oswald] met her, that he came to her apartment door one night and wanted to get her involved somehow.

Fonzi: You told the FBI that?

Connell: As I recall, Silvia herself didn't tell me that, it was her sister who told me that...Frankly, I was not impressed with these two FBI investigators. They were rather new on the job I think. They were not very smart in my opinion and I did more interviewing of them than they did of me. They made no notes at the time, so whatever they wrote down after they left I'm not sure would be 100% correct."

Thanks to the fine work performed and shared on this forum by Robert Howard, we now know she was born Lucille Cole......

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/obituary.aspx?n=lucille-connell&pid=154241174#fbLoggedOut

Obituary

Connell, Lucille Lucille Connell born January 07, 1916 in Pampa, Texas passed away October 20, 2011 in Dallas, Texas. She is preceded in death by two fine husbands; Temple P. Hoffer, Sr. and C. Lee Connell. She is survived by son ..............., son ....................,

Edited November 11, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, I am not going to post quotes of the many instances in which you give the impression you are "all in" when it comes to Edwin Walker's central role in the conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy. Maybe it is only your style of writing, but my point in my last post is that there are compelling and long standing reasons for the opportunity to closely link Walker to be more elusive than you project.

As you can see in recent exchanges on this thread, researchers with a much greater command of the entire history than you presently exhibit have been over this ground and have moved on. My tone may seem discouraging, but I am suggesting that you should get yourself more up to speed before drawing the inferences you post, related to Walker. It is difficult to have discussions with a researcher who posts he is flexible and openminded but emphasizes links no one else has put as much stock in. I've posted much about Henry Crown and Patrick Hoy. The details related to them are not about plowing old ground. JFK leased the Virginia estate of Patrick Hoy's principal sponsor before he was offered a job by Henry Crown.

I can post away without running into the problem I see you to be burdened with,because on the research of Byfield, Hoy, Crown, I am plowing new ground. Many have looked already where you are looking, have a greater understanding of much more background than you. You do not seem to take that into account. I suggest that you give those who have been into this Walker related research before you, more credit for what they have not put as much importance on. Just my two cents.

Tom, once again, I don't have conclusions, only theories. I do strongly suspect that ex-General Edwin Walker is the center of all this odd activity in both New Orleans and Dallas that involves Cuban Exiles, ex-Castro-supporters, Minutemen, Lake Pontchartrain, Interpen, No Name Keys, anti-Castro paramilitary attack squads, ex-FBI men, secret agents and "double agents".

Yet nowhere did I ever say that this was a "conclusion" or a proven fact. Nowhere at all. Ever.

On the other hand, I strongly suspect that JFK researchers for the past 49 years have not -- repeat not -- delved as deeply into the case of ex-General Edwin Walker as they could have or should have. This begins with Lee J. Rankin and Wesley Liebeler and the entire Warren Commission (who tip-toed around ex-General Walker at every turn) and moves forward to the Jim Garrison investigation (who let Loran Hall off too easily, IMHO) and forward again to the HSCA (which again treated Loran Hall with kid gloves).

The HSCA did not even subpoena ex-General Edwin Walker, when actually Walker's name appears hundreds of times in the Warren Commission volumes, by actual count.

You say that "researchers with a much greater command of the entire history" than I presently exhibit have "been over this ground and have moved on." Well, I'm not satisfied that they found everything that could be found. That's my position, and the more energy I place on this clue, the more evidence keeps falling into place.

For example, I didn't come to the FORUM a year ago looking to speak with Harry Dean, but here he was, and he confirmed several suspicions that I built up separately about Walker. I personally checked out Dean's story with interviews in Southern California -- and it checks out solidly. So Harry Dean's detractors on the FORUM, in my humble opinion, are not doing all their homework.

Since I've been on this FORUM I've also contacted Bishop Duncan Gray from Oxford, Mississippi, who personally saw ex-General Edwin Walker at Ole Miss on the day of the riots, and personally talked to Walker, and testified (1) that Walker certainly did lead a charge against Federal troops late at night on 30 September 1962; and (2) that Walker certainly lied to the Mississippi Grand Jury when he said he was there to try to calm the students down, and to insist that "violence was not the way." Actually, it was Bishop Gray (then a young Episcopal priest) who told the students that "violence is not the way," and for his trouble, the ex-General insulted him and the nearby students beat up the hapless priest.

Since I've been on this FORUM I've also contacted Larrie Schmidt, who did not offer more information than is already published about him, except that he wished to distance himself as far from ex-General Edwin Walker as posssible, and then he ended his interview.

Since on the FORUM my suspicions of ex-General Edwin Walker have only increased. No researchers on the FORUM have provided as much information about him as I've dug up on my own and shared with everybody here -- so I doubt that JFK researchers here have really done their homework about Edwin Walker.

Just because ex-General Walker was interviewed at length 48 years ago by the Warren Commission -- that does not mean that I am plowing old ground. On the contrary. I believe the Warren Commission and the HSCA both have worked to conceal as many facts about ex-General Edwin Walker as they concealed about Lee Harvey Oswald.

This thread about Leopoldo and Angel is a case in point -- both of these desperados were connected with Lee Harvey Oswald, and both were connected with ex-General Edwin Walker. I am finding new clues and I'm sharing them freely and with clarity, and I'm asking others to help me dig this mine.

But that is far from drawing conclusions. I still have many theories, and no conclusions.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

P.S. As for the citation you shared, Tom, it was unable to confirm or deny that FBI report from Mrs. Connell. Your citation was also unable to draw a consensus about Sylvia Odio: some call her a xxxx, while others like Gaeton Fonzi were certain that Sylvia Odio is "totally credible." This is the state of JFK research today. Nobody should boast about drawing conclusions with the field in such a state of disarray.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Guest Tom Scully]

A closer reading of the C. (Clifford) Lee Connell obit Robert Howard had posted last year in the "G Harrod Miller" thread, triggered an urge to dig further because that obit described Lucille Cole Hoffer as Connell's wife of 43 years, and C. Lee Connell died in 2008, so things did not add up.

Lo and belhold, the WC "witness" was instead Connell's first wife, mother of his daughters Janis and Cynthia Colleen.....

(Document image is from the Weissberg archive.)

[PDF]

Jefferson D. Voosley: Immigration and Naturalization.-

jfk.hood.edu/Collection/.../O%20Disk/.../Item%2035.pdf

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View

There are attached the results of interviews with th'e following identified individuals: Mrs. Mary Lucille Bass Connell, also known as. Mrs. C. L. Connell; .*

(We must still allow for the possibility that the C. Lee Connell obit in 2008 is in error about the length of Connell's marriage to Lucille Cole Hoffer; it could have been longer

than 43 years. Otherwise C. Lee Connell divorced the WC witness Mary Lucille Bass Connell after late November, 1963, and then married Lucille Cole Hoffer by 1965.

The Texas birth records available at http://familysearch.org are in synch with what is in C. Lee Connell's 2008 obit. Clfford L Connell and Mary Lucille Bass had a son born in 1935. A second son died on the day he was born, 8 Sept., 1950. Daughter Janis was born to the same parents in 1952, and Cynthia Colleen in 1955. The daughters are described in the 2008 obit as Janis and Colleen.)

On edit, this name change seems to confirm that Mary Lucille Bass was the "Mrs. C L Connell" who was quesitoned by the FBI in Nov., 1963.

[PDF]

HSCA Volume IV: 9/26/78 - Narration by G. Robert ... - History Matters

www.history-matters.com/.../hsca/.../HSCA_Vol4_0926_1_Narration....

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View

Sep 26, 1978 – Annie Odio, Amador Odio, Lucille Connell Light and Dr. Burton Einspruch. The staff also arranged a conference telephone call between Dr

Edited November 11, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Paul Trejo]

A closer reading of the C. (Clifford) Lee Connell obit Robert Howard had posted last year in the "G Harrod Miller" thread, triggered an urge to dig further because that obit described Lucille Cole Hoffer as Connell's wife of 43 years, and C. Lee Connell died in 2008, so things did not add up.

Lo and belhold, the WC "witness" was instead Connell's first wife, mother of his daughters Janis and Cynthia Colleen.....

<snip>

...There are attached the results of interviews with th'e following identified individuals: Mrs. Mary Lucille Bass Connell, also known as. Mrs. C. L. Connell; .

...The Texas birth records available at http://familysearch.org are in synch with what is in C. Lee Connell's 2008 obit.

...On edit, this name change seems to confirm that Mary Lucille Bass was the "Mrs. C L Connell" who was quesitoned by the FBI in Nov., 1963.

OK, that was a fairly good query and a solid result. It helped us identify Mrs. Connell as Mary Lucille Bass Connell, the first wife of C.L. Connell.

But that is a moot point if Gaeton Fonzi's theory is true, i.e. that Mrs. Connell was a xxxx.

I wrote earlier that if (and only if) Mrs. Connell was telling the truth, then Sylvia Odio lied to the Warren Commission when she said she never saw Lee Harvey Oswald before that day when he accompanied Leopoldo and Angel at her door under the alias, "Leon Oswald."

Now, according to Gaeton Fonzi, Sylvia Odio is "totally credible" and when the Warren Commission asked her point blank about Mrs. Connell's story, she said that Mrs. Connell was wrong, wrong, wrong.

Our choice here is clear -- either Mrs. Connell was a xxxx or Sylvia Odio was a xxxx. Gaeton Fonzi interviewed both women at length and made his choice -- Mrs. Connell turns out to be the xxxx.

Well -- Sylvia Odio would not use language that harsh -- she just said that Mrs. Connell got excited, and then confused the facts. Gaeton Fonzi relayed that he personally pressed Mrs. Connell for corroboration of her story to the FBI, and she hemmed and hawed, and blamed the FBI agents for being beginners.

It turns out, furthermore, that Mrs. Connell was close to Sylvia Odio at one time (and she found her a psychiatrist and even paid for some psychiatric visits for Sylvia, after Sylvia's parents were jailed in Cuba, and then her husband divorced her, so that she underwent tremendous strain). However, Connell was too much of a busybody for Sylvia to befriend for life -- Connell would pump Sylvia for information about Cuba, but she would tell Sylvia almost nothing about herself, or her concerns, or why she was interested. So Sylvia eventually dropped her as a friend.

That was just as well -- it was actually Sarita Odio, the second of three Odio daughters, who was best friends with Mrs. Connell. It was Sarita who told Mrs. Connell about her sister's plight in the first place. It was Sarita who probably told Mrs. Connell everything about Sylvia Odio.

If this is the case (and Mrs. Connell suggests it is) then perhaps it was Sarita (not Sylvia) Odio who told Mrs. Connell that Lee Harvey Oswald had been making speeches to Cuban Exiles in Dallas.

Now - we cannot draw the conclusion that Mrs. Connell (for whatever reason) openly lied about Lee Harvey Oswald, i.e. that it was simply untrue that Oswald gave at least one rightist speech in Dallas, because as Tommy Graves pointed out, Loran Hall (Leopoldo) said that Nico Crespi boasted that he was on his way to a Dallas speech one day to "heckle" Lee Harvey Oswald.

So -- even if Mrs. Connell turns out to be wrong, we stil have Loran Hall and Nico Crespi aware of the rightist (and "double agent") activities of Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas in the Autumn of 1963.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 11, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Guest Tom Scully]

The name Lucille Bass Light leads to this..... well plowed ground, Paul. Many have pursued these lines before you. Why haven't they been chiming in, on this thread and in other recent ones?

http://www.ctka.net/pr996-odio.html

Sylvia Odio vs. Liebeler & the La Fontaines

By Jim DiEugenio

From the September-October, 1996 issue (Vol. 3 No. 6)

Just declassified at the National Archives is the record of Gaeton Fonzi’s interview with Silvia Odio for the Church Committee. We choose to reprint it here in full for two reasons. First, because it is interesting to note the actions of one Wesley Liebeler, UCLA law professor, in his apparent attempt to discredit her. There are still some who believe today that the Warren Commission was actually a fairly neutral body that was just tricked and lied to by the FBI and CIA. We find this an untenable position. We think the Commission, from top to bottom, was prejudiced against Oswald from its inception.

.....We would like to make one additional comment on the document below. This may further elucidate Odio quoting Liebeler about Earl Warren in regard to covering “this thing up” (see the callout on this page). When Probe interviewed an HSCA staffer about Odio, he told us that the reason Warren did not believe the “Odio incident” was because Liebeler told him that Odio was a “loose woman.” The reader will understand the import of that remark by reading the report below.

REPRODUCED AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES

RELEASED PER P. L. 102-526 (JFK ACT) 5-2-96

Notes—Silvia Odio interviewed 1/16/76 .....

......She says that when the three men came to the door they first asked for Serita and that they seemed confused, but when she told them she was Silvia and that she was the oldest they said it was she they wanted to talk with.

That reminded her of Johnny Martin. "Johnny Martin came out of the blue," she said. "That was a very strange thing. I don't know how he got involved with my sister Serita, how he was introduced to her. The strange thing about him was that his family lived somewhere in a Latin American country and he had this laundry, this coin laundry he operated. He would tell Serita to being (sic) her clothes there and he wouldn't charge her. And then Serita brought him to our house and we started talking about a lot of things. He was very clever and we were very young and soon he was telling us he could get arms for our movement. I got in contact with Eugenio (Rogelio Cisneros) and he told Ray he was coming to Dallas to meet Martin." Martin she says always seemed to be broke yet he said he had a lot fo (sic) contacts in Latin American governments. Nothing came of the meeting between Martin and Cisneros because Cisneros didn't trust him.

Re: Lucille Connell. She was a Protestant who got involved in the Catholic Welfare Bureau. She came on very strong with Silvia as soon as she arrived in Dallas and, in fact, had sponsored her trip from Puerto Rico. Connell had known her sister Serita first. "She struck me as the most fantastic, the most kind and considerate person I ever met," says Silvia. "She was just so generous, and I had tremendous admiration for her."

"She was very involved with a lot of different groups and talked to me about them. She was very intense about the John Birch Society. She was also involved with the Rosicrusians. And also with the Mental Health Association in Dallas."

She was a very wealthy women (sic), married to a wealthy man but she divorced him and is now living in Long Island, remarried. (Name now Lucille Light

50 Wynn Court-Muttontown

Syoset, Long Island 516-921-3519

Her husband (Connell) had a large CPA firm in Dallas. J. B. Connell?)

Connell had even gotten her psychiatrist, Dr. Einspruch (who later went to Philadelphia Naval Hospital.) (She later visited him there; he was wearing a uniform.)

She described Mrs. Connell as a person who knew all the key people in Dallas.

"She was a very strong person. She tried to use the fact that I was ill in order to control me, my thoughts, my friends, my goings and comings, the way I raised my children. It came to a point when she called me every night to get a report on what I had done for the day, who I had seen, where I had been. She had a tremendous memory, a very tremendous memory. She could recall something, something she had seen or heard right away. I remember I mentioned the fact of the men's visit just once to her and she never forgot.

"You have to remember that I arrived in Dallas under tremendous pressure, I had just suffered the trauma of divorce, I had four children, I had all this responsibility of my brothers and sisters, it was a tremendous burden. And Lucille took me under her wing, took me to the country club, wanted to buy me dresses, wanted to introduce me in certain circles. I always had the feeling she was getting me ready for something."

"Then came this Father McChann. Father McChann and I became very close friends and he was going through his own crisis in his life. Lucille used him, managed him, handled him. I don't know how to say it. Lucille tried to get us together and then tried to get us apart and got jealous of our relationship in the meantime. People are very complex. She was very moody and enjoyed playing with our lives. There was a time when I couldn't say no to her for anything, She would call me at two o'clock in the morning and say, "I don't want to sleep now, would you talk to me? and I felt I had to even though I didn't want to and had to go to work the next morning." Only with Dr. Einspruch's help that she got strong enough to pull herself away from Mrs. Connell.

"This is why she was angry with me and maybe why she called the FBI. She was very angry with me because I was pulling away from her and getting stronger." She had also developed a relationship with a wealthy couple named Rodgers and Mrs. Connell was very jealous of that, also. (John Rodgers was the president of Texas Cement.)

(I asked her about her knowledge of Reinaldo Gonzales and Alpha 66 founder Antonio Veciana.) She knew of them and of her father's role in hiding Gonzales. She had never met Veciana and did not know what he looked like.

She said she also knew Jorge Salazar (mentioned in O'Toole-Hoch piece as Dallas Alpha 66 leader whose home at 3126 Hollandale was meeting place where Oswald was seen), but was never at that address and was never involved with Alpha 66. Actually, she only knew of Salazar and doesn't actually know what he looks like.

(I had her review her testimony and she recalled certain details:)

-That Leon Oswald's name had been repeated. One guy said, "I'd like you to meet Leon Oswald." Then he said, "My name is Leon Oswald."

-That Oswald had a slight beard and more of an indication of a moustache, as if he hadn't shaved in a day or so or (as they said) had just come from a trip.

-That he (Oswald) had on a green shirt.

-That one of the men was very hairy and showed a lot of hair on his chest above his shirt.

-Leopoldo, the tall one, was driving.

-One of them called the day after and, more likely she thinks, the day after that.

-That one of them had pockmarks on his face and a very bad complexion. He also had a "funny kind of head," a lot of hair but "big entrance on the side.

(re Mrs. Connell again: I asked her about Connell's report to FBI re Gen. Walker and Col. Castorr) "Mrs. Connell was apparently involved in more than she pretended. Whenever she wanted to find out some information she would take me out to lunch. I wasn't aware at the time she was using me. I knew she was involved with key people in Dallas and she was continually getting phone calls where she would lock herself in her library when she answered them. She was always mysterious, and always very careful not to mention information, she always asked. She did mention Gen. Walker, we talked about Walker. I knew she was involved with his movement and with the John Birch Society. I think that's why she was involved with the Cubans, because we were very usable people, and expendable. (Did she ever mention Conservatives of the USA?) "Yes, she did. We discussed that, I remember the name." (Re Connell-cont.) "And then all of a sudden one summer she decided to become a Rosicrusian, and she started traveling, was it Oklahoma or someplace where the Rosicrusians have a headquarters? She traveled quite a bit on that, I remember because she showed me a card, they issued her a card.

She married a guy who takes tours to Europe and has a lot of money...

Another association she recalled was the name of Russo, which she heard mentioned as part of Garrison's investigation. She says the name rang a bell and she finds it interesting that he knew Oswald by the name of Leon Oswald also.

Connell was not only involved with the Mental Health Association but very interested in psychology, mind control and brainwashing. She had a lot of books on the subject. That’s when I said to myself, “Silvia, the time has come for you to keep quiet. They don’t want to know the truth.”

Silvia specifically remembers that when Leopoldo called her back on the telephone and told her about Oswald talking about killing Kennedy, it was not a weekend day (Sat. the 28th or Sunday the 29th) because she remembers working that day and getting the call after she came home from work, about 7:30 p.m. She is pretty sure it was not the day after their visit, but the following day (which would make it Friday the 27th at the latest; because Monday was the 30th and she was moving by then.)

Big thanks to Steve Bochan for forwarding us this document. -Eds.

A closer look at Louise Bass Connell reveals the following.:

The 1940 U.S. Census record shows that the boy Michael Connell resides in Dallas with parents C. Lee and Lucille Connell. C. Lee Connell was employed as an accountant at a supply co. and worked 60 hours per week and earned $1680 annually. The birth record displayed above shows that the Connells were married approx. 1 January, 1933, since Mary Lucille is described as a housewife in mid 1935 for about the past 2-1/2 years.

A daughter, Sandra, was born to the couple in May, 1943. She married Robert A. Kelley in 1986 and was deceased about 2007. Robert A. kelley is described in C. Lee Connell's 2008 obit as Connell's son-in-law.

The 6949 Lakeshore address is the same as the address for Mrs. CL Connell in the FBI report filed by agents Ural Norton and Norman W. Propst on 29 Nov., 1963.

In 1952, daughter Janis was born to the Connells and in 1955, daughter Cynthia Colleen was born. Both are mentioned in C. Lee Connell's 2008 obit. Son Michael is not mentioned in the obit.

A real estate transaction filed in Dallas in February, 1965 states that C. Lee Connell holds 1/2 interest in a 17.8 acre property near the Trinity River sold by Lucille B. Connell for $32,000 and that Lucille was Connell's former wife.

Sylvia Odio's WC testimony was that Mrs. Connell had provided some of the money for the relocation of Sylvia from Cuba to Dallas. Lucille B. Connell had been a volunteer for Catholic Relief for about a year.

C. Lee Connell's obit states that he was active in a Dallas Baptist Church. In 1963, Mrs. CL Connell is presented as a woman so committed to her volunteer work with Catholic Relief that she finances part of Sylvia Odio's immigration costs and expedites psychiatric care for Sylvia and Mrs. Connell is active in Dallas mental health.

The background details show that Mrs. CL Connell is about 49 years old and the mother of a son, age 28, and of daughters ages 20, 11, and 8. She is also nearing the end of a thirty years long marriage to C. Lee Connell. When asked later about her 28 November, 1963 interview by SA Ural E. Norton and SA Norman W. Propst, she responded to HSCA investigator Gaton Fonzi:

http://spot.acorn.ne...sue/update.html

..........

re: FBI reports:

Connell: I really don't recall her telling me all that at this time, but after all it's been thirteen years ago. I just recall that he [Oswald] met her, that he came to her apartment door one night and wanted to get her involved somehow.

Fonzi: You told the FBI that?

Connell: As I recall, Silvia herself didn't tell me that, it was her sister who told me that...Frankly, I was not impressed with these two FBI investigators. They were rather new on the job I think. They were not very smart in my opinion and I did more interviewing of them than they did of me. They made no notes at the time, so whatever they wrote down after they left I'm not sure would be 100% correct."

Versus.....

Page 9, Denton Record Chronicle, December 14, 1975 ...

newspaperarchive.com/denton-record-chronicle/1975-12.../page-9/

Dec 14, 1975 – ... An FBI receptionist said the note threatened to blow up the office or the Dallas Police Department Hosty said it threatened appropriate which he took to mean if he kept bothering Marina Oswald Kenneth C Howe supervisor said he recalls only that he note was threatening Nobody else admits having seen it Hosty said he was ordered by J Gordon Shanklin head of the office to destroy the note about two hours after Jack Ruby killed Oswald on Nov 24 1963 Hosty said he flushed the note down a toilet Howe said he discussed the note with Shanklin tried to give it to him and met a violent reaction about a week or 10 after the assassination weekend now retired denied knowing of the note until last July when asked about it by the newspaper which publicly the existence FBI receptionist Nanny Lee Fenner said she took Oswald's note to assistant Kyle Clark who told her to give to Hosty Clark has said heard the note She also said a agent Ural Norton told her last April he asked about the note during an auto trip December 1973 and Shanklin nearly jumped out of the car window denied that Hosty said he did the Warren Commission of the Oswald note in because they didn't ask me about it.....

http://www.mtexpress...p?ID=2005104125

Obituary : Norman W. Propst

After a courageous battle with cancer, Norman Wylie Propst, passed away on Friday, July 8, 2005 with his beloved wife Sherry by his side at their home in Ketchum.

Born in Newton, N.C., Norm was one of five children born to Carroll and Lizzy Propst. After high school, at age 17, he rushed to enlist in the Merchant Marines to join the fight against fascism and later joined the U.S. Army during World War II. Following the War, he received his undergraduate degree from Appalachian State and his Masters from the University of Tennessee. Norm taught briefly in the Washington, D.C., school system until 1954, when he realized his childhood dream and became a FBI agent.

During his 25-year career with the FBI, Norm was posted around the country and assigned to some of the most important cases of the 60s and 70s, including both the Civil Rights and the Kennedy Assassination investigations.

After retiring from the FBI's Pocatello office, Norm became chief of police at Pocatello, where he served for eight years, honored with a plaque from Gov. Cecil Andrus for 33 years of dedicated service to the state of Idaho and also the city of Pocatello. At the end of his law enforcement career he moved to Sun Valley, where he pursued his passion for the outdoors.

At the Duchin Room in the Sun Valley Lodge, he met the love of his life,....

Mrs. CL Connell seemed to have too much on her plate in 1963 to be acting on her own initiative and it seems unlikely she would have had the time, focus, and emotional

stability to be involved with Catholic Relief, Dallas mental health, Sylvia Odio, and her sister, and with the FBI, in the immediate post assasination time frame or in the months before. She was 49 years old, a mother of two young daughters, and her marriage of thirty years was on the cusp of, or already in the divorce process. Her husband was a baptist. The FBI agents she later criticized seemed sincere and Propst was a nine year veteran of the Bureau, a former school teacher, a merchant marine and WWII US Army veteran and approx. 40 years old in 1963. Propst's partner in the interview of Mrs. CL Connell, SA Ural E. Norton, seemed later to be concerned about the assassination investigation and was close enough to his superior Shanklin or at least bold and concerned enough to press him about the Hosty note.

I cannot find anything on the then 28 years old Connell son, Michael. Was his mother supporting his activities? Mrs. CL Connell was still residing in late 1963 at the same address she and her husband gave at the time their son died in 1950. Was the divorce an outcome of Lucille B. Connell's "volunteer" work? Was Lucille a baptist simply donating her time and money to Catholic Relief?

Edited November 12, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Paul Trejo]

The name Lucille Bass Light leads to this..... well plowed ground, Paul. Many have pursued these lines before you. Why haven't they been chiming in, on this thread and in other recent ones?

Well, Tom, the well-known Jim Eugenio posted some of this material 15 years ago, and evidently it went nowhere at that time, just as it goes virtually nowhere today.

What did all that bulk of material that you posted actually prove when it comes to the issues about Sylvia Odio, Leopoldo, Angel and Lee Harvey Oswald? Very little, clearly.

The researchers who posted that bulk of data so many years ago are probably no longer interested in this so-called "well-plowed" ground, because they got nothing profitable from it. But they evidently didn't plow with a tractor. The proof is in the pitiful results that we find there.

We should never suppose that a massive 'bulk' of data is somehow equal to a carefully reasoned argument. It isn't.

So, let's look at this post you just sent, Tom.

(1) We have a repeat of Gaeton Fonzi's interviews - old hat;

(2) We have an HSCA interview of Sylvia Odio which merely repeats 99% of the Warren Commission information -- because the HSCA interviewers had such a weak orientation;

(3) We have the scandal that Sylvia Odio probably had an affair with her psychiatrist (which is probably 100% irrelevant);

(4) We have birth certificates of Mrs. Connell's children (which are probably 100% irrelevant)

(5) We have FBI confirmations that the FBI agents who interviewed Mrs. Connell were clearly not "beginners". (Which is mostly irrelevant.)

So, just because it is a great bulk of data, Tom, that doesn't mean very much. It is mostly irrelevant data.

Only the last few sentences are mildly interesting, as a modern researcher expresses his suspicions about Mrs. Connell, probably trying to build a theory that she was a CIA or FBI operative or informer. While that's a remote possibility, the evidence provided is virtually nothing, and so it appears to be a dead end.

That would explain why all those people who pursued this thread so many years ago are not chiming in here -- they have nothing further to add than this relatively useless bulk of data. It was a dead end for them.

Yet it would be a mistake to confuse this massive bulk of data for "well-plowed ground". Well-plowed, IMHO, means well-reasoned and thorough, and this bulk of data is anything but thorough.

So, why did so little useful information emerge from this massive bulk all those years ago? Because, like the HSCA, the researchers didn't have a central orientation -- they had only a dim idea about what they were looking for.

My theory, on the other hand, does not stand or fall on the conclusion of whether Mrs. Connell was a xxxx or a fool or a CIA operative. What matters in my theory is that she dropped some clues without even thinking about them.

Clearly, she refused to corroborate her own FBI report on 29 November 1963, in which she claims that Sylvia Odio told her one day prior that she had seen Lee Harvey Oswald make at least one speech in Dallas for right-wing Cuban Exiles. What she did say, however, is that she really got her information from Sarita Odio, who was Sylvia's younger (but not the youngest) sister.

The clues that Mrs. Connell dropped -- which are confirmed by Sylvia Odio's negative and positive comments about her -- is that she was a busy-body who was intensely interested in the problem of Cuba.

Who cares if she was a Baptist and volunteered for a Catholic charity? That's irrelevant. What's relevant is that she loved to read and to be informed, even though she didn't have a college degree in political science or public affairs. In other words, her husband was comfortable, but she evidently came from a working-class family. She was very intelligent as a youth, but had few opportunities for education; therefore, when she got any opportunity at all -- as a housewife -- she read all these books about Cuba, Cubans, the FBI, Communists, Anticommunism, the John Birch Society, Rosicrucians, and the Friends of Walker society. She fancied herself an intellectual, probably, and she wanted to save the world, probably.

So, Mrs. Connell, intent on saving the world through the Cuban Crisis, decided to become involved -- probably on her own. She volunteered for the Catholic charity in her neighborhood, which specialized in Cuban Exiles. She met Sarita Odio there, and Sarita told Mrs. Connell that her family was persecuted by the Communists and her father was in a Cuban jail, suffering under the yoke of the Communist Fidel Castro.

Mrs. Connell immediately befriended Sarita -- here was red meat for her cause. Then Sarita told Mrs. Connell about the plight of her sister, Sylvia Odio, whose life was made doubly worse by the fact that her husband divorced her and left her to raise several small children alone. The strain was proviing to be too much for Sylvia, who was beginning to have fainting spells. Mrs. Connell, probably out of her Baptist generosity, found a psychiatrist for Sylvia Odio, and personally paid for some of her first sessions. This impressed Sylvia Odio very much.

Yet Sylvia Odio probably never met anybody like Mrs. Connell -- a Baptist who fawned over Cuban Exiles. Evidently -- because Mrs. Connell soon became overbearing. When Sylvia and her psychiatrist became "very close" Mrs. Connell (in true Baptist fashion) objected in an inteferring way. Mrs. Connell, having taken a 'savior' role in relation to Sylvia Odio, then felt it was OK for her to tell Sylvia how to raise her children. (This is common behavior, and reveals zero training in professional services, much less clandestine services.) Sylvia decided to break with Mrs. Connell.

It was this break, thought Sylvia Odio, that caused Mrs. Connell to tell the FBI on 29 November 1963 that Sylvia Odio had seen Lee Harvey Oswald speak in Dallas to rightist Cuban Exiles. No, said Sylvia, she never told Mrs. Connell any such thing. And she only wanted to focus on the fact that she saw Lee Harvey Oswald strictly on Wednesday 25 September 1963, when Leopoldo, Angel and "Leon" Oswald visited her home for about a half-hour (perhaps at 7:30 pm).

But that was Sylvia's take on Mrs. Connell. We can easily interpret Mrs. Connell's behavior other ways. First of all, Mrs. Connell modified her account to Gaeton Fonzi, saying that she really got all her information about Sylvia Odio from her sister, Sarita. Therefore, her story might have an element of truth, despite the "excitement" of the JFK assassination only one week prior, and the "confusion" caused by that.

Sylvia did admit that she told Mrs. Connell about the Leopoldo, Angel and Oswald visit a few days after that visit. So Mrs. Connell did have that information. Also, after the JFK assassination, Sylvia Odio fainted at work, and was revived in a local hospital. The news got around -- almost certainly from Sarita Oswald -- to Mrs. Connell -- that Lee Harvey Oswald was one of the men that visited Sylvia back in September.

This news would have further excited Mrs. Connell who then jumped to become involved. She wanted to save the world. Here was her chance to help out the FBI. She called the FBI and directed them to talk to Sylvia Odio (the one who saw Oswald at her house in September) instead of to Sarita Odio (the one from whom she heard the news about Sylvia).

It is vaguely possible that some FBI agents did not know Hispanic names well enough to distinguish between Sarita and Sylvia. More likely Mrs. Connell was not sufficiently clear in explaining the sources of information to them. In any case, the FBI reported that Sylvia was the one who called Mrs. Connell, while Mrs. Connell later corrected that -- it was Sarita who called her on 28 November 1963.

If (and only if) this is the correct summary of events, then we can surmise some clues that Mrs. Connell did not intend to convey, as follows:

(1) Sarita Odio (not Sylvia) saw Lee Harvey Oswald making rightist speeches in Dallas to Cuban Exiles.

(2) Sarita Odio told this to her good friend, Mrs. Connell, soon after that event happened. (Thus it was probably Sarita Oswald who was "impressed" with Oswald at the time.)

(3) Mrs. Connell registered this, because she was a member of the Friends of Walker association, and she knew that ex-General Edwin Walker also made rightist speeches in Dallas to Cuban Exiles (as did Colonell Castorr).

(4) When JFK was killed, and Sylvia Odio fainted, and Sarita told Mrs. Connell, Mrs. Connell, in her "excitement" conflated these stories and that explains the substance of her report to the FBI on 29 November 1963.

(5) The unintended clues, then, are these: (i) Lee Harvey Oswald made impressive speeches in Dallas to right-wing Cuban Exiles; (ii) somebody in New Orleans warned the Cuban Exiles in Dallas that Lee Harvey Oswald was a "double agent".

The confirmation of (5) is that Loran Hall reports that: (i) Nico Crespi also went to hear Lee Harvey Oswald speak in Dallas; and (ii) Nico Crespi threatened to heckle Oswald for his speech, most likely because Oswald seemed to Crespi to be a "double agent."

The report of Loran Hall matches the report of Mrs. Connell, and this suggests to us that Mrs. Connell was not a xxxx, but as Sylvia Odio preferred, she was "excited" and "confused" and mixed up some of the facts to the FBI on 29 September 1963.

Now -- my take on this did not come out all those years ago in the bulk of data that you provided, Tom. So I might tentatively conclude that this ground is not nearly as well-plowed as some people believe.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited November 12, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

If that is all settled, then, let us look at the wider implications.

We have established fairly well that Lee Harvey Oswald gave right-wing speeches in Dallas. We have the story first from Mrs. Connell (via Sarita, not Sylvia Odio), and secondly from Loran Hall (via Nico Crespi).

We also have the story that the New Orleans Cuban rightists warned the Dallas Cuban rightists to avoid Lee Harvey Oswald, because he was a "double agent." Again we have that story first from Mrs. Connell (via Sarita, not Sylvia Odio), and secondly again from Loran Hall (via Nico Crespi, on the presumption that Nico Crespi, when he indicated he was going to hear Oswald speak in Dallas, said he went to "heckle" Oswald -- presumably because Oswald was a "double agent." [with thanks to Tommy Graves for that speculation]).

Finally, we have the story that ex-General Edwin Walker was also making speeches in Dallas to right-wing Cuban Exiles. This information came from Mrs. Connell, from her own, personal experience and information.

Let's look at the implications so far. Mrs. Connell, who was not a Cuban, but who worked very closely with a Catholic Charity for Cuban Exiles, took a very busy-body interest in learning all she could about the Cuban problem in the USA. Possibly she simply wanted to help, perhaps as an FBI informer, perhaps as an informer for other official intelligence agencies -- or perhaps as an informer for ex-General Walker, or for the John Birch Society (since she was affiliated with them in Dallas), or perhaps Mrs. Connell wanted to feel useful so she gathered information for the "authorities" in general as she could find it.

It is interesting that one week after JFK was assassinated, Mrs. Connell called the FBI with her information -- and nobody else, as far as we know. So, she probably didn't work for the FBI, since she was a citizen informer seven days after the JFK assassination -- and she probably didn't see the FBI often, since it took a Presidential assassination to motivate her.

More to the point -- Mrs. Connell used to pump Sylvia Odio for information -- so much that Sylvia became annoyed with her, and eventually cut her off, despite the fact that she was grateful for Mrs. Connell's charity work and even her cash outlay in behalf of the Odio family. (The final straw seems to have come when Mrs. Connell began telling Sylvia how to raise her children.)

But Mrs. Connell's endless snooping for information may prove to be valuable to us. She conflated Sarita's phone call of 28 November 1963 with a call from Sylvia -- which means that she had probably become accustomed to talking to Sylvia on the phone, before she was cut off. She possibly "wished" it had been Sylvia who called her, and in a Freudian slip told the FBI it was Sylvia who called her (instead of Sarita). Possibly.

But look at what she found.

(i) The Odio sisters knew lots of Cuban Exile rightists in Dallas, and also lots of Cuban Exile rightists in New Orleans.

(jj) Some of the Odio sisters' relatives lived in New Orleans.

(iii) The Odio sisters knew Carlos Bringuier, since childhood.

(iv) The Odio sisters' uncle in New Orleans, 'Agustin Guitar,' also knew Carlos Bringuier, and followed his actions in New Orleans.

(v) When Carlos Bringuier was arrested for fighting with Lee Harvey Oswald on Canal Street in New Orleans on 9 August 1963, Agustin Guitar attended the arraignment.

(vi) When Carlos Bringuier appeared on TV with Lee Harvey Oswald, no doubt Agustin Guitar watched the TV program.

(vii) From this INCA propaganda effort starring Lee Harvey Oswald, Agustin Guitar would have concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was an FPCC Communist.

(viii) Others in the Cuban Exile community, however said that they heard Lee Harvey Oswald speak at their rightist events, and they were impressed.

(ix) Probably Sarita Odio told Mrs. Connell that she was impressed or even "very impressed" by Oswald's speech.

(x) Yet the official line of Ed Butler (a Cuban Exile) and his mass-media empire, INCA, was that Lee Harvey Oswald was an FPCC officer. Clearly a Communist.

(xi) Therefore, the Cuban Community in New Orleans had no choice but to conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald was a "double agent".

(xii) In other words, Lee Harvey Oswald really did get around in the Cuban Exile movement. He had many associates here.

(xiii) Yet the Warren Commission would insist that Oswald was a "loner". This is clearly not the case.

(xiv) Lee Harvey Oswald never personally associated with Communists or FPCC members -- all his interaction with them was by US Mail.

(xv) Even when Oswald distributed FPCC fliers on Canal Street on 9 August 1963, he did not associate with Communists or FPCC members, but he used cash to hire two young men from the unemployment line at $2 hourly (when the minimum wage was 85 cents an hour; after inflation, $2 hourly amounts to $20 hourly today; Jim Garrison did a good job identifying those two young men -- one was from his own neighborhood. Probably Oswald got this cash from Clay Shaw or Guy Banister.)

(xvi) When attorney Dean Andrews first saw Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans, he saw him in the company of two "gay Mexicanos." (The meaning of that epithet is unclear since Dean Andrews was himself "gay" and may have been projecting. However, Sylvia Odio said she was unsure if Leopoldo and Angel were Mexicans or not. Dean Andrews told the Warren Commission he was not sure if these two men were Mexicans or not.)

(xvii) So Lee Harvey Oswald clearly had associates among the Cuban Exile Community, both in New Orleans (where he is on radio and television with some of them) and in Dallas (where Sarita Odio and Nico Crespi, at the very least, saw him there).

The FBI report supplied by Mrs. Connell has not been sufficiently explored after 49 years. The place of Loran Hall and Larry Howard in this Cuban Exile community is also of great interest to me. Gerry Patrick Hemming himself will find a place in this line-up, because of his close association with Loran Hall and Larry Howard.

Finally, didn't Gerry Patrick Hemming once say that he personally told Lee Harvey Oswald to bring his rifle to the Texas School Book depository on the morning of 22 November 1963, because he wanted to buy it for a high price? Wasn't that confession made on this very FORUM? Does anybody have a link to that thread?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 13, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Guest Tom Scully]

If that is all settled, then, let us look at the wider implications. ......

Paul, the biggest turn off is your attitude. You post with an air of authority not often matched by your command of the material. You have everything figured out. You know what is relevant and what isn't. It would save me a lot of time and effort if I could capture the simplicity of your approach to this work.

I am slow..... dull.....still attempting to figure out where Lucille Bass Connell found the time and summoned the interest.Confusing myself with irrelevant details instead of using a central (conclusion?) basis on which to hang everything that seems to support it.

I come back to the dilemma of you projecting more certainty than researchers with much more information. I am sharing some of what I have found to

support my sense of frustration and befuddlement in reaction to your delivery.

Mary Ferrell points out that it was C. Lee Connell who was a pallbearer at the 1964 funeral of the founder of Dallas Catholic Relief.

This all smacks of a private witness protection program, complete with a name change to his mother's maiden name. When? Why? Was bigamy also involved? Protestant, Catholic, or Jew, Lucille was certainly an equal opportunity right winger...... How did a northeast appliance business owner of

the Jewish faith end his life with an obituary naming the children of C. Lee Connell of Dallas as the children of the deceased? I do not know much but it

seems to be a good idea to attempt to run down the background details. Paul posted an opinion of Lucille as a woman of limited education and an early family background of limited means. Just eight years after giving birth to her last child at age 40, Lucille was importing Sylvia Odio, tending to her needs

informing to the FBI, and seemingly in synch with her husband in being acquainted with and supporting Catholic Relief and its leader, only to end up divorced and living in the north eastern United States with a man she seemed to have no prior connection with, for the rest of her life. Married to a man who had graduated from Dartmouth as Lapidus, but who had later changed his last name and the last names of his two daughters and his first wife to his mother's maiden name, Light.

From the Obituary Section of the New York Times:

http://query.nytimes...8B63&sec=&spon=

Paid Notice: Deaths

LIGHT, JANE A.

Published: October 15, 2007 LIGHT--Jane A. , of New York and San Francisco. Daughter of Lelia S. Adler, widow of Wilbur R. Light. Survived by Judy of Arlington, VA, and Susan of New York and Boynton Beach, FL. Passed away on October 11th after a brief illness. Donations may be made to Cabrini Hospice, ....

https://familysearch...M9.1.1/JB84-XQ3

first name: Jane

middle name: A

last name: Llight

name suffix:

birth date: 13 September 1914

social security number: 064-10-8507

place of issuance: New york

last residence: New york, New york

zip code of last residence: 10021

death date: 11 October 2007

estimated age at death: 93

https://www.google.c...iw=1440&bih=787Marriage Announcement 1 -- No Title‎

New York Times - Apr 12, 1936

-Mrs. Lelia S. Adler announces the engagement of her daughter, Rosalie Jane Adler, to Mr. Wilbur R. Lapidus of New York City

As of the 1940 US Census, the name change from Lapidus to Light had not yet happened.:

https://familysearch...M9.1.1/K3YF-66S

Household Gender Age Birthplace

head Leila S Aaler F 57 California

son-in-law Wibur Lopidus M 29 Colorado

daughter Jane Lopidus F 25 New York

Washington Post, 20 June, 1916 :

Continued in next post due to two images per post restriction:

Edited November 13, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Guest Tom Scully]

Continued from my last post on this thread.:

Published in the New York Times on 24 November, 1916 :

Published on the same day in the Washington Post:

Mary Lucille Bass Connell Light (Lapidus) was born on December 23, 1914 and died in Midlothian, VA in 2005.

https://familysearch...M9.1.1/VMQB-53R

first name: Lucille

middle name: B

last name: Light

name suffix:

birth date: 23 December 1914

social security number: 455-26-8243

place of issuance: Texas

last residence: Midlothian, Chesterfield, Virginia

zip code of last residence: 23114

death date: 23 May 2005

estimated age at death: 91

a record of my children's ancestors Jewel Davis Scarborough.

Volume 4 - Page 92

.....John Edge. No issue. 8-1-4-3. Eula Mae Davis, b. December 18, 1883, Mc- Kinney, Texas, d. 1953; m. December 24, 1902, Oscar Bass, b. December 30, 1881, d. September 30, 1932. Issue: Geraldine, William Clayton, Eula Ruth, Mary Lucile, Juanita Sue, Hazel Maurice, Oscar Davis, and Mabel Jane Bass. 8-1-4-3-1. Geraldine Bass, b. October 15, 1903, d. January 13, 1923. 8-1-4-3-2. William Clayton Bass, b. 1-29- 1907, m. 1) Leona. Issue: 8-1-4-3-2-1. Carol Bass. 8-1-4-3-2-2. Darline Bass, m. 2) Frances Pope. LEWIS GARDNER DAVIS 90 SOUTHERN KITH AND KIN.

.........

Issue: 8-1-4-3-2-3. William Clayton Bass, Jr. 8-1-4-3-3. Eula Ruth Bass, b. 5-31-1913, m. 9-13-1952, Paul M. Brewer. 8-1-4-3-4. Mary Lucile Bass, b. 12-23-1914, m. 12-24- 1932, Clifford Lee Connell. Issue: 8-1-4-3-4-1. Michael Lee Connell, b. 6-24-1935. 8-1-4-3-4-2. Sandra Sue Connell, b. 5-3-1943. 8-1-4-3-4- 3. Kenneth Randall Connell, b. 9-8-1950. 8-1-4-3-4-4. Janis Connell, b. 1952.

Lucille's sister-in-law and nephew were killed instantly in October, 1965.:

http://www.txfannin....hp?per_id=42391

The Dallas Morning News

12 Oct 1965

Section D, Page 4

Services Set for Four Killed in Grayson Crash

SHERMAN, Texas (Sp.) - Double funeral services will be held at 10 a.m. Tuesday at Earnheart Chapel in Whitewright for Mrs. Frances Pope Bass, 49, and her son, William C. Bass, 17, two of the four persons killed in a 2-car head-on crash Sunday 5.8 miles east of Sherman on U.S. 82 between Sherman and Bells.

Burial will be in Oak Hill Cemetery, Whitewright.

Services for the other two victims, Dorothy Lynn Guffee, 14, and Bradley Ray Parrish, 16, both of Ector, are set for Tuesday at Wise Funeral Chapel in Bonham. Miss Guffee's services will be conducted at 2 p.m. Tuesday, with burial in the Mulberry Cemetery, north of Bonham.

Services for the Parrish youth will be held at 3:30 p.m Tuesday in Wise Chapel. Burial will be in Willow Wild Cemetery at Bonham.

Mrs. Bass was born in Whitewright. She worked for the Grayson County Selective Service Board.

She is survived by her mother, Mrs. Stella Pope of Whitewright and a brother, George Pope of Bonham.

The Bass youth was born in Sherman and was a senior in Whitewright High School. He is survived by his father, William Clayton Bass Sr., of Dallas and his grandmother, Mrs. Stella Pope.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, the biggest turn off is your attitude. You post with an air of authority not often matched by your command of the material. You have everything figured out. You know what is relevant and what isn't. It would save me a lot of time and effort if I could capture the simplicity of your approach to this work.

I am slow..... dull.....still attempting to figure out where Lucille Bass Connell found the time and summoned the interest.Confusing myself with irrelevant details instead of using a central (conclusion?) basis on which to hang everything that seems to support it.

I come back to the dilemma of you projecting more certainty than researchers with much more information. I am sharing some of what I have found to

support my sense of frustration and befuddlement in reaction to your delivery.

Mary Ferrell points out that it was C. Lee Connell who was a pallbearer at the 1964 funeral of the founder of Dallas Catholic Relief.

This all smacks of a private witness protection program, complete with a name change to his mother's maiden name. When? Why? Was bigamy also involved? Protestant, Catholic, or Jew, Lucille was certainly an equal opportunity right winger...... How did a northeast appliance business owner of

the Jewish faith end his life with an obituary naming the children of C. Lee Connell of Dallas as the children of the deceased? I do not know much but it

seems to be a good idea to attempt to run down the background details....

<snip>

Tom, if you have something to say, why don't you come right out and say it?

My command of the material is not the issue -- nor is my attitude. Nor do I have "everything figured out."

But I do call 'em like I see 'em -- whenever I see irrelevant information -- like birth certificates and death certificates of the children of people who talked to the FBI about Sylvia Odio -- I will call it irrelevant unless somebody can use clear sentences to explain the relevance.

Quantity of information may be important, but quality of information is more important.

Lucille Bass Connell had time on her hands -- what is the problem with that? Don't you know any right-wing housewives with time on their hands? Such people are a cliche in the South.

Is it really relevant that Lucille Bass Connell's husband was a pall bearer at the 1964 funeral of the founder of Dallas Catholic Relief? Clearly -- Lucille Bass was an active volunteer for that Charity, and clearly she wanted to be a matron for her city -- so she volunteered her husband. It happens every day. But if you think there is something suspicious about it, please explain why.

You say that "this all smacks of a private witness protection program," but you don't provide your reasoning. Why not?

Is it really so astounding that a northeast appliance business owner of the Jewish faith ended his life with an obituary naming the children of C. Lee Connell of Dallas as his children? Surely you have heard of divorce, re-marriage and adoption. Surely you're heard about people bickering about renaming their children after a divorce.

You suggested that it is important to "attempt to run down the background details," so, have you done that? If so, do you have some actual connection to share? If so, why not just spell it out?

As for my opinions, I try to stay close to the topic of Leonardo, Angel, Sylvia Odio, Lee Harvey Oswald and the personnel in question inside the thread upon which I comment.

I am surprised to have to respond to insults about being a "turn off" simply because I have an opinion and I express it. If you disagree, Tom, feel free to explain your reasoning. But posting insults along with tons of material that are largely irrelevant to the specific focus of the thread at hand seems to me to be counter-productive.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Paul, the biggest turn off is your attitude. You post with an air of authority not often matched by your command of the material. You have everything figured out. You know what is relevant and what isn't. It would save me a lot of time and effort if I could capture the simplicity of your approach to this work.

I am slow..... dull.....still attempting to figure out where Lucille Bass Connell found the time and summoned the interest.Confusing myself with irrelevant details instead of using a central (conclusion?) basis on which to hang everything that seems to support it.

I come back to the dilemma of you projecting more certainty than researchers with much more information. I am sharing some of what I have found to

support my sense of frustration and befuddlement in reaction to your delivery.

Mary Ferrell points out that it was C. Lee Connell who was a pallbearer at the 1964 funeral of the founder of Dallas Catholic Relief.

This all smacks of a private witness protection program, complete with a name change to his mother's maiden name. When? Why? Was bigamy also involved? Protestant, Catholic, or Jew, Lucille was certainly an equal opportunity right winger...... How did a northeast appliance business owner of

the Jewish faith end his life with an obituary naming the children of C. Lee Connell of Dallas as the children of the deceased? I do not know much but it

seems to be a good idea to attempt to run down the background details....

<snip>

Tom, if you have something to say, why don't you come right out and say it?

My command of the material is not the issue -- nor is my attitude. Nor do I have "everything figured out."

But I do call 'em like I see 'em -- whenever I see irrelevant information -- like birth certificates and death certificates of the children of people who talked to the FBI about Sylvia Odio -- I will call it irrelevant unless somebody can use clear sentences to explain the relevance.

Quantity of information may be important, but quality of information is more important.

Lucille Bass Connell had time on her hands -- what is the problem with that? Don't you know any right-wing housewives with time on their hands? Such people are a cliche in the South.

Is it really relevant that Lucille Bass Connell's husband was a pall bearer at the 1964 funeral of the founder of Dallas Catholic Relief? Clearly -- Lucille Bass was an active volunteer for that Charity, and clearly she wanted to be a matron for her city -- so she volunteered her husband. It happens every day. But if you think there is something suspicious about it, please explain why.

You say that "this all smacks of a private witness protection program," but you don't provide your reasoning. Why not?

Is it really so astounding that a northeast appliance business owner of the Jewish faith ended his life with an obituary naming the children of C. Lee Connell of Dallas as his children? Surely you have heard of divorce, re-marriage and adoption. Surely you're heard about people bickering about renaming their children after a divorce.

You suggested that it is important to "attempt to run down the background details," so, have you done that? If so, do you have some actual connection to share? If so, why not just spell it out?

As for my opinions, I try to stay close to the topic of Leonardo, Angel, Sylvia Odio, Lee Harvey Oswald and the personnel in question inside the thread upon which I comment.

I am surprised to have to respond to insults about being a "turn off" simply because I have an opinion and I express it. If you disagree, Tom, feel free to explain your reasoning. But posting insults along with tons of material that are largely irrelevant to the specific focus of the thread at hand seems to me to be counter-productive.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

--Tommy