FINALLY, PROOF: Charles Tracy Barnes was the CIA Chief of Domestic Operations Division, Support!

[Leslie Sharp]

And so it goes ...  deliberations boomerang to focus on the patsy.

[Robert Montenegro]

2 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

And so it goes ...  deliberations boomerang to focus on the patsy.

 

IT NEVER ENDS.

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

As Pat said, this has been discussed for some time and I think it brings into play the fact that Domestic Operations had a fairly broad remit (legal or not) at the time.  Ostensibly it did not "spy" on foreign agents - the CIA was to hand that off to the FBI and we have concrete examples of that, one being "Tumbleweed". 

Domestic operations did a good deal of work establishing domestic "covers" for foreign operations - which was actually one of Barnes' long time specialties and possibly the reason he was given the assignment. It also identified and maintained contacts with American's with international contacts or those traveling abroad who could be used as sources or assets. 

Which is why De Morenschildt was cultivated as a source for Domestic Operations.  I've always been curious as to what Divisions actually used Clay Shaw.  The same would be said for Meheu and his operations against foreign diplomats.  That may even be revealed in more current documents; I admit to never going back to take a look at either Shaw or Meheu in that respect.

And of course J Walton Moores files remain largely a mystery - they would give us a very interesting insight into Domestic Operations activities.

 

 

To my recollection, there were two nearly-identically-named segments of the CIA: Domestic Contacts Service and Domestic Operations Division. To my recollection, the first dealt primarily with American citizens who had traveled abroad, and the second kept tabs on foreign nationals residing within the U.S. I definitely recall thinking that whatever ops were aimed at Lechuga would have been handled by the DOD. I also seem to recall that McCord was involved with this as well.

But maybe I'm just hallucinating after watching too many Watergate-related programs. 

 

[Robert Montenegro]

15 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

And so it goes ...  deliberations boomerang to focus on the patsy.

We literally have all of the resources to solve the murder of the President right now, yet I am stuck talking about that Reich-wing agent provocateur Lee Harvey Oswald, AGAIN!

I know we are not allowed to solicit on the Education Forum, but can someone give me the budget that Mr.  DiEugenio and Oliver Stone had on "JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass," and I'll have the United States in the middle of an anti-capitalist, peace revolution by dawn.

All without spending ninety minutes of precious screen time on Commission Exhibit 399...

 

...can this topic please stick to the document at hand.

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Leslie Sharp]

4 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

We literally have all of the resources to solve the murder of the President right now, yet I am stuck talking about that Reich-wing agent provocateur Lee Harvey Oswald, AGAIN!

I know we are not allowed to solicit on the Education Forum, but can someone give me the budget that Mr.  DiEugenio and Oliver Stone had on "JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass," and I'll have the United States in the middle of a socialist revolution by dawn.

All without spending ninety minutes of precious screen time on Commission Exhibit 399...

 

...can this topic please stick to the document at hand.

 

hear hear!

[Robert Montenegro]

1 minute ago, Leslie Sharp said:

hear hear!

I can hear your wonderful laughter thru the computer screen 🤣

[Benjamin Cole]

RM-

I am enjoying and learning from your posts, and wish others would not "show rank" by saying they knew this before, or bringing up their own pet theories. 

To all: RM is doing primary documents research. Hats off. 

If EF-JFKA participants have primary docs they want to discuss, by all means make a post. 

My eyes will be the size of saucer plates. 

Side note: This constant barrage of derogatory posts in the EF-JFKA, regarding others who have different insights, is one reason the EF-JFKA has such a limited readership, and narrow political base. 

The uncouth need not drive the civil out of this forum. 

[Robert Montenegro]

3 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The uncouth need not drive the civil out of this forum. 

 

Amen.

[Tom Gram]

22 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

We literally have all of the resources to solve the murder of the President right now, yet I am stuck talking about that Reich-wing agent provocateur Lee Harvey Oswald, AGAIN!

I know we are not allowed to solicit on the Education Forum, but can someone give me the budget that Mr.  DiEugenio and Oliver Stone had on "JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass," and I'll have the United States in the middle of an anti-capitalist, peace revolution by dawn.

All without spending ninety minutes of precious screen time on Commission Exhibit 399...

 

...can this topic please stick to the document at hand.

 

Uh, you brought up Oswald by saying that the 112th had him under surveillance, etc. Joe and I asked for sources. You have not provided any. Am I missing something here? 

[Benjamin Cole]

6 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Uh, you brought up Oswald by saying that the 112th had him under surveillance, etc. Joe and I asked for sources. You have not provided any. Am I missing something here? 

Was it the 112th that destroyed all its records when it was shut down--including its LHO files? 

There is this: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/docid-32260796.pdf

"The NIS holds no records concerning or referring to investigations into Oswald's background by the 112th Military Intelligence Group".

BTW, the Judith A Miller who signed the above doc is now a member of the board of governors of the Atlantic Council, but is not the other Judith Miller. 

 

[Robert Montenegro]

1 hour ago, Joseph Backes said:

Did you go to Archives II and go through this material there yourself?  

 

36 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Uh, you brought up Oswald by saying that the 112th had him under surveillance, etc. Joe and I asked for sources. You have not provided any. Am I missing something here? 

 

To answer Mr. Backes, yes, I did read thru the entirety of Box #7

You can request access here: specialaccess_foia@nara.gov.

As for my sources, Mr. Gram, I do not wish to post links to my Google Drive on this public forum.

As I stated before, here is where you can access interviews with members of the 112th MID:

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/review-board/barger-files.html

In those interviews, conducted by the ARRB's Lt. Col. Timothy A. Wray, Chief Analyst for Military Records & Christopher Barger, with US Army Col. Rudolph M. Reich, Commander of the 316th Intelligence Operations Detachment, who was on loan to the 112th Intelligence Command, as Chief of the 112th's Field Operations Intelligence, claims that those officers I named off, were surveilling Mr. Oswald.

Now, please, go do your own foot work, please.

I have no intention of running the gamut of requesting to see those documents again.

Perhaps if you had come to my help, when I was pleading with everyone to come to my aid on this forum two years ago, when I was kicked off, and I had those documents in front of me, things would be different.   
 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Tom Gram]

23 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

 

 

To answer Mr. Backes, yes, I did read thru the entirety of Box #7

You can request access here: specialaccess_foia@nara.gov.

As for my sources, Mr. Gram, I do not wish to post links to my Google Drive on this public forum.

As I stated before, here is where you can access interviews with members of the 112th MID:

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/review-board/barger-files.html

In those interviews, conducted by the ARRB's Lt. Col. Timothy A. Wray, Chief Analyst for Military Records & Christopher Barger, with US Army Col. Rudolph M. Reich, Commander of the 316th Intelligence Operations Detachment, who was on loan to the 112th Intelligence Command, as Chief of the 112th's Field Operations Intelligence, claims that those officers I named off, were surveilling Mr. Oswald.

Now, please, go do your own foot work, please.

I have no intention of running the gamut of requesting to see those documents again.

Perhaps if you had come to my help, when I was pleading with everyone to come to my aid on this forum two years ago, when I was kicked off, and I had those documents in front of me, things would be different.   
 

I was not a member of this forum two years ago. I will check out that Reich interview though. Thanks. 

[Joseph Backes]

Robert,

Don't attack me.  I didn't kick you off anything.   

I've done plenty of work in Archives II, thank you.  And I'm glad and impressed you went there.  

There's enough there to keep any adult busy for decades.  

My correspondence with the ARRB fills 2 boxes at NARA.

I did my best to tell people about ARRB releases long before there was a MFF.  Those reviews are here.

Requesting info is not a personal attack, nor a sign anyone is lazy.  The Collection is HUGE.  It's difficult and expensive to get away from home and job to be able to do any research at Archives II.  

So, be kind and share what you can.  The more we share the better.  And thank you for sharing what you have. 

Joe

[Robert Montenegro]

Mr. Gram and Mr. Backes, I owe you both an ass.

My apologies.

But in case you haven't noticed, I am being probed by right-wing provocateurs on this forum, looking for me to slip up and type something that can be lazily interpreted as insensitive (before the past eight years, I've never run into so many sensitive  sympathizers).

In any case, I will try to find those interviews.

It is going to take a while.

Godspeed.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Robert Montenegro said:

Mr. Gram and Mr. Backes, I owe you both an ass.

My apologies.

But in case you haven't noticed, I am being probed by right-wing provocateurs on this forum, looking for me to slip up and type something that can be lazily interpreted as insensitive (before the past eight years, I've never run into so many sensitive  sympathizers).

In any case, I will try to find those interviews.

It is going to take a while.

Godspeed.

RM--

I am a fan of yours. I am nowhere in your league as a primary docs researcher, though I have done some. 

Please keep posting in the EF-JFK and, yes, it takes nearly unlimited forbearance to deal with certain participants here. 

My only advice as an old man: Never take anything personally, and some people here need serious counseling---but what can we do? 

Just grin and bear it.  The site allows you to put certain participants on "ignore."