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Lansdale in DP on 11/22/63?


Greg Wagner
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I read in Mark Lane's Plausible Denial that he had a conversation with Fletcher Prouty in which Prouty referred to a photograph taken in DP on 11/22/63 and stated that Ed Lansdale was in the photo. Does anyone know of (or have a copy of) that particular photo? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

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I read in Mark Lane's Plausible Denial that he had a conversation with Fletcher Prouty in which Prouty referred to a photograph taken in DP on 11/22/63 and stated that Ed Lansdale was in the photo. Does anyone know of (or have a copy of) that particular photo? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Greg,

Here is the Tramps photograph in question and a crop/blow-up of the supposed Lansdale figure.

James

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Wow. I suppose if that were a person that you knew really well, you might be able to make the call from that photo. But that's pretty thin given the angle of the photo. Not saying it couldn't be EL, but not much evidentiary value there. Thanks very much James.

Greg

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Hi Greg,

The photographic evidence is far from being a clincher but given Prouty's relationship with Lansdale, I guess we should at least take notice.

That aside, I find the Tramps photo itself a very strange one. Given that these guys were under arrest and being escorted by armed guards, why would someone be allowed to get that close to them? And why would that person want to get that close to people who were obviously under police guard?

Then we have the cops themselves. Check out the guy bringing up the rear (see below). Ill-fitting uniform, casual manner of weapon handling - he would look more at home with the Keystone cops.

Baffling.

James

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We don't even know yet who that policeman is! (Denis Morissette)

Good point, Denis.

Is it me, or does this cop bear some resemblance to Chauncey Holt? I think I need a lie down now.

James

The second cop is Marvin Wise. After he saw the camera, he apparently shaped up, as in the subsequent tramp photos Wise is in the lead and looking sharp, with the other cop Billy Lee Bass having fallen back.

Ron

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I have a photo of Lansdale that I have tried unsuccessfully to post as an attachment. It shows him walking through a village in the Philippines in the 1950s, and the gait, stooped shoulder, etc. make it easy to see why Prouty might ID the man walking past the tramps as Lansdale.

Also, on page 495 of Pictures of the Pain there is a photo taken by Jim Murray just a few minutes after the shooting. It's a view looking eastward up the Elm Street Extension, toward the TSBD. On the far left is a man walking along toward the TSBD with his hands in his pockets. He looks like he could very well be the same man seen an hour or so later, walking the other way past the three tramps. He looks like a man who's just roaming around by himself (there are many people milling about along the Elm Street Extension.) But there's nothing about him in this Murray photo to make one think of Lansdale.

Ron

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We don't even know yet who that policeman is! (Denis Morissette)

Good point, Denis.

Is it me, or does this cop bear some resemblance to Chauncey Holt? I think I need a lie down now.

James

The second cop is Marvin Wise. After he saw the camera, he apparently shaped up, as in the subsequent tramp photos Wise is in the lead and looking sharp, with the other cop Billy Lee Bass having fallen back.

Ron

I was refering to the cop in the Post #4 when I said we still don't know his name.

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Hi Greg,

The photographic evidence is far from being a clincher but given Prouty's relationship with Lansdale, I guess we should at least take notice.

That aside, I find the Tramps photo itself a very strange one. Given that these guys were under arrest and being escorted by armed guards, why would someone be allowed to get that close to them? And why would that person want to get that close to people who were obviously under police guard?

Then we have the cops themselves. Check out the guy bringing up the rear (see below). Ill-fitting uniform, casual manner of weapon handling - he would look more at home with the Keystone cops.

Baffling.

James

You know James, the more I think about it, the more I think Prouty could be right. I've recognized people (old friends, co-workers, etc.) out in public before from worse angles than that. I guess it depends on how familiar you are with that person. Prouty may well have recognized that person correctly as Lansdale. It's like so much in this case, not exactly incontrovertible proof, but so very suggestive.

Even more so is your point about the positioning. If you are just some guy walking along, it would be strange to see these guys approaching, accompanied by policemen with shotguns, and then position yourself to walk almost right up against them (especially since the president has just been murdered in that same area) in a position where you are pinned between them and the fence. Also, think about the fact that at this point, Joe Bystander would have no idea who these guys are or how dangerous they may or may not be. There is no question that you’d give these guys a wide berth. Unless of course you know exactly who they are.

This brings up another question: What’s the SOP here for the DPD? These guys are being escorted by two officers with shotguns through a semi-crowded, public area near where the assassination has just taken place, yet they are not handcuffed? And would an armed officer be leading? I don’t know what the SOP is for officers in that situation, but does it seem reasonable to have these three guys you’re taking into custody walk behind you? And as you mentioned James, the 2nd officer looks pretty casual about the whole situation. Look how far the officers are from the detainees. Clearly, these gentlemen do not appear to be under arrest. Yet they are being escorted from the crime scene by (while perhaps being under the protection of?) shotgun toting police officers. Curious.

Hi Ron. Thanks for the info. Do you know who ID’d them?

A couple of interesting links below. Thanks guys.

Greg

Lansdale? Who is Victor Krulak?

Prouty letter to Garrison

Edited by Greg Wagner
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I was refering to the cop in the Post #4 when I said we still don't know his name.

That's who I'm referring to also. His name is Marvin Wise.

Ron

Wise is the one on the right of the photo in Post #1. I will provide you with the proof later today. So far we have only the name of two of the policemen: Bill Bass and Marvin Wise. Who is the third?

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Denis,

I'm editing this post, as you were right and I was wrong. It is Bass on the left and Wise on the right in the Lansdale photo. What proves this is Wise's statement, which I now see in his statement to the HSCA that he was wearing cotton in his ear, as an explanation for what looked like a listening device in his ear in the Lansdale photo.

Sorry for the unnecessary confusion.

What third cop are you referring to? I see only two in the photos, Wise and Bass.

Ron

Edited by Ron Ecker
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