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Nazi Prince "Max" von Hohenlohe, Lt. Col. Raymond Rocca, DA "Big Jim" Garrison, & the murder of President Kennedy...


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While looking at some documents (it's what I do, I'm a documents hound), I came across a disturbing entry at Mary Ferrell:

 

Apparently, District Attorney of Orleans Parish James Carothers "Big Jim" Garrison was literally looking for Nazi intelligence agents:

 

 

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In case your wondering, the Nazi that US Army Lt. Col. Raymond George RoccaCIA Deputy Chief of Counterintelligence, Research & Analysis (DC/CI/RA), commander of the CIA's "Garrison Group," identifies in this document, Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe, a Nazi intelligence agent and member of the Reichssicherheitshauptamt, was close, personal friends with Allen Welsh Dulles, going all the way back to WWII:

 

 

Any thoughts on why Lt. Col. Raymond George RoccaCIA Deputy Chief of Counterintelligence, Research & Analysis (DC/CI/RA) felt that this is the man DA Garrison was looking for?

 

A follow-up document calls Nazi intelligence agent Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe a quote, *"...principal agent..." of the Central Intelligence Agency:

*(An intelligence officer may assign one agent to perform the role of surrogate handler, working directly with other agents and reporting to the intelligence officerthe surrogate handler is known as a principal agent).

 

 

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Could it be that there were, I don't know, Nazis working for the CIA involved in murdering President Kennedy?

 

Discuss.

 

And please, keep the discussion civil.

 

Thank you.

 

Edited by Robert Montenegro
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I would like to note, that since Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe is quote, *"...principal agent..." of the Central Intelligence Agency in Mexico, I'd like to add that Winston Mackinley Scott AKA Willard C. Curtis, was the CIA Mexico City Station Chief.

*(An intelligence officer may assign one agent to perform the role of surrogate handler, working directly with other agents and reporting to the intelligence officerthe surrogate handler is known as a principal agent).

This is disturbing for two reasons:

1. Winston Mackinley Scott was the commander of a Mexican fascist organization called, "Los TECOS" which acted as a paramilitary death-squad for one of Winston M. Scott's anti-communist propaganda outlets, "Movimiento Universitario de Renovadora Orientación" (MURO), which was awarded the cryptonym "LIEVICT."

LIEVICT's paymaster was Lt. Col. Alphonse Rudolph “Al Pancho” Wichtrich, cryptonym "LIHUFF-1," formerly the CIA Chief of Operations, Panama, in 1951, and in 1963, was executive vice president, American Chamber of Commerce, Mexico City, vice chairman of DuPont de Nemours, Inc., Mexico City, general manager of Royal Crown Cola, Mexico City, and an asset of Chase Manhattan Bank president, David Rockefeller's "ZRAWARD" operation in New York.

Los TECOS acted as a front for Nazi intelligence during WWII, via the Acción Revolucionaria Mexicanista, or "Camisas Doradas," a direct copy of the Nazi Sturmabteilung units.

LIEVICT was a propaganda arm of Los TECOS.

And the Prince Hohenlohe report is from a man who made the Dallas patsy look like a communist in New Orleans, Carlos Jose Bringuier, Directorio Revolucionario Estudantil's Chief of Public Affairs and Propaganda.

And the Lt. Col. Raymond George RoccaCIA Deputy Chief of Counterintelligence, Research & Analysis (DC/CI/RA) document states that Nazi intelligence agent Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe was quote, "...big in propaganda..." 

 

 

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2. In 1951, when Winston Mackinley Scott was Chief of Covert Operations, Office of Special Operations, Western Europe, his name shows up on a document concerning SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny:

 

 

 

 

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Kinda makes you wonder if the Chief of Covert Action in Western Europe Winston Mackinley Scott, later CIA Station Chief in Mexico City, utilized herr Skorzeny for some other purpose.

 

After all, according to the mind-bendingly brilliant work of Bill Simpich, Winston Scott's assets are all over the setting up of the patsy in Dallas:

 

 

And who is Winston Mackinley Scott's "...principal agent..." to the Central Intelligence Agency in Mexico?  

 

Reichssicherheitshauptamt agent Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe!

 

Once again, please, discuss.

 

And please do, keep the discussion civil.

 

Thank you.

 

Edited by Robert Montenegro
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  • Robert Montenegro changed the title to Nazi Prince "Max" von Hohenlohe, Lt. Col. Raymond Rocca, DA "Big Jim" Garrison, & the murder of President Kennedy...

"Could it be that there were, I don't know, Nazis working for the CIA involved in murdering President Kennedy?

Discuss."--RM

Yes, it could be.

To be fair, perhaps one could also call the individuals "former Nazis," since we do not know if they earnestly renounced their beliefs or not.  Many former communists and Nazis have renounced former beliefs. (That does not absolve anyone of crimes against humanity).

Larry Hancock's SWHT, and Tipping Point, mostly points to JMWAVE, Cubans, and related mercs, military guys.

One could posit a former Nazi (or even one secretly holding onto to his inner-secret Nazi) was higher up in the CIA food chain, and delivered important information and coordination to a couple Cubanos and LHO. 

RM's work on the depth and scale of former Nazis in the CIA is instructive and deeply saddening. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

To be fair, perhaps one could also call the individuals "former Nazis," since we do not know if they earnestly renounced their beliefs or not.  Many former communists and Nazis have renounced former beliefs. (That does not absolve anyone of crimes against humanity).

 

To quote my good friend Dave Emory, "...calling a functionary of the Holocaust '...a former functionary of the Holocaust...' is like calling a cockroach no longer eating human excrement from the sewers a '...former cockroach...' so don't call them '...former Nazis...', a cockroach is a cockroach and a Nazi a Nazi..."

Plus, comparing Nazism, an outlawed criminal fascist political party, to communism, a type of socialist-economic system of living (of which there are at least 157 counties practicing positive forms socialism) does not make any sense.   

 

As for Reichssicherheitshauptamt agent Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe, let's examine the following entry about him, on pages 102 to 104, from a book called, "The Old Boys: The American Elite and the Origins of The CIA" by Burton Hersh:

 

QUOTE 

 

 "...As early as winter of 1942, Schellenberg hinted to the uneasy Himmler that he now intended to launch discreet soundings. These ranged from Abram Stevens Hewitt in Stockholm to Theodore Morde, a Reader’s Digest correspondent in Ankara. Inevitably, Schellenberg discovered a go-between with lines to Allen Dulles, and early in 1943 a series of discussions ensued.

Thus opened the contested exchanges between Mr. Bull” (Dulles) and “Mr. Pauls” (Prince Egon zu Hohenlohe-Langenburg). Max Hohenlohe had long been an international-set acquaintance of Dulles, a bustling, polished socialite from the Sudetenland whose status as a minor royal drew customers for munitions from the Škoda Works, a concession Schellenberg helped him snag. Hohenlohe already bestowed over vast landed properties in Spain after marrying into the Hapsburg family; he was currently hedging his political future by traveling on a Lichtenstein passport.

 A Canaris familiar, Prince Hohenlohe caught Schellenberg’s attention early in 1942 by sending the rising SD official his own jaundiced appraisal of prospects in Europe. With the all-seeing SD Commander Reinhard Heydrich assassinated at the end of May, possibilities had obviously widened for the opportunistic Schellenberg. Barely thirty, scarcely beyond his baby fat, the Amt VI chieftain resembled an SS doll decked out in death’s-head campaign hat and tailored parade uniform.

With Schellenberg’s cautious sponsorship, Max Hohenlohe trotted out a line of provisional peace proposals, first with the British Ambassador Sir Samuel Hoare—always a soft touch—and the sympathetic American Counselor of Embassy William Walton Butterworth (an intimate of George Kennan’s since Princeton), with Vatican sympathizers, with Fritz Klein, (a friend of both the Dulles brothers), and—evidently at the recommendation of American negotiators in Lisbon, where Kennan and Colonel Solborg were stationed—with Allen Dulles himself toward the middle of February 1943.

 Exactly what was agreed upon has become a matter of dispute, largely because the SS summations of the exchanges appear to have passed through Russian hands on their way to the archives, after which the USSR News Services waited until 1948 and the upheavals of the Cold War to put them out as dispatches. Nevertheless, much of their thrust is borne out by related RSHA paperwork, private journals, and intelligence files from a variety of sources.

What seemed most scandalous at the time was Dulles’ reported pique with “outdated politicians, emigres, and prejudiced Jews.” The hope in America was that these malcontents could be resettled, perhaps in “Africa.” As one in close touch with Vatican circles, Dulles maintained, he strongly urged the “German bishops” to “plead Germany’s cause” in America, keeping in mind that “it had been the American Catholics who forced the Jewish-America papers to stop their baiting of Franco Spain.”

This has the look of crumbs spread upon the water. Pronouncements alternated with rich meals in a Liechtenstein chateau; Hohenlohe bit by bit exposed his quasi-official status as a spokesman for SS elements within the German government who now looked beyond the “wild men” in control.

What casts a longer shadow is the outline of Allen’s geopolitical ideas. The peace he has in mind, Dulles indicates, must avoid the excesses of Versailles and permit the expanded German polity to survive, Austria included and possibly at least a section of Czechoslovakia, while excluding all thought of “victors and vanquished...as a factor of order and progress.” Within this decentralized nation, the importance of Prussia must be reduced, to ward off for the future—Dulles is quoted directly here—the “inwardly unbalanced, inferiority-complex-ridden Prussian militarism.”

The resultant Greater Germany would backstop the “formation of a cordon sanitaire against Bolshevism and pan-Slavism through the eastward enlargement of Poland and the preservation of a strong Hungary.” This “Federal Greater Germany (similar to the United States), with an associated Danube Confederation, would be the best guarantee of order and progress in Central and Eastern Europe.” 

An Abwehr officer, F. Justus von Einem, later claimed to have sat in on a carefully prepared meeting at Santander in Spain in the summer of 1943 during which both Menzies and Donovan agreed to "Christian Wester" terms as recapitulated by Canaris personally. If this exchange occurred, Donovan kept it quiet.

Such exploratory talks pointed well beyond the uproar of the moment. “I have known Max Hohenlohe since the days of the war,” Dulles assured a lawyer at Sullivan and Cromwell in 1965, apropos a legal favor requested by the aging prince, “when he worked with me on some rather difficult and delicate problems.” The exchanges in Liechtenstein amounted to a reconnoitering..."

 

— END QUOTE.

 

Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe was no "...former Nazi..."

He was a well-paid, economic fixer for Škoda Works, a company that utilized slave labor from the Nazi concentrations camps and developed tanks and cannons that were used by the Nazis to slaughter millions of innocent men, women, and children in Poland, France and the former Soviet Union!

And Prince "Max" von Hohenlohe was personal friends with the mass-murdering functionaries of the Holocaust, ADM Wilhelm Franz Canaris, Chief of the Abwehr and SS-Brigadeführer Walter Friedrich Schellenberg, commander of all SS-Einsatzgruppen units from 1941 to 1945, and from 1942 to the end of the war, the Chief of Amt VI, Ausland-SD and the immediate supervisor of SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny!

Quite the circle of friends, Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe had, ja?

Plus, Allen Dulles was brokering secret deals behind the Allied High Command's back with Prince "Max" von Hohenlohe, to the effect of creating a "Christian West" alliance with "former" Nazi intelligence, to the effect of starting a covert war against the Russians?!

 

You know, the COLD WAR!

 

This same man, Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe, is identified by Lt. Col. Raymond George RoccaCIA Deputy Chief of Counterintelligence, Research & Analysis (DC/CI/RA) as "...principal agent..." of the Central Intelligence Agency in Mexico, in 1963?!

 

Edited by Robert Montenegro
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Don’t wanna diss you document houndery, but the following quotes from the documents provided cause eyebrow raisery…

….it is possible….                               
….one rather thin possibility…            
….was said to have been….         
…..could mean…….

When a problem comes along, you must whip it.

                

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sean Coleman said:

Don’t wanna diss you document houndery, but the following quotes from the documents provided cause eyebrow raisery…

….it is possible….                               
….one rather thin possibility…            
….was said to have been….         
…..could mean…….

When a problem comes along, you must whip it.               

 

No doubt, that's why we are here, to raise eyebrows and think.

 

Plus, when a good time turns around, you must whip it!

 

However, the document literally identities Nazi intelligence agent Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe a quote, "...principal agent..." of the Central Intelligence Agency in Mexico in 1963.

 

 

 

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No if, ands, or butts about it.

 

Plus, if Allen Welsh Dulles really was a driving force behind the murder of President Kennedy, I'd imagine he'd mobilize people with anti-democratic ideals he could manipulate.

Kinda like a Nazi war criminal on the lam, living under the protection of CIA, who can't say no to an order, lest the CIA Chief of the Israeli DeskJames Jesus Angleton, toss his sorry goose-stepping hiney to the Mossad and a war crimes tribunal...

 

Edited by Robert Montenegro
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RM's extraordinary documents work highlights the entirely depressing use of Nazis, or former Nazis, by the CIA, to open up markets for Western-based corporatist-globalists, the multi-nationals. Publicly, that effort was billed as "fighting communism." The Cold War. 

The also extraordinarily heavy affiliation of present-day corporatist-globalists with CCP-Beijing underlines the Cold War was less about ideology, but more about access to markets, resources and cheap labor.  

If commies do business, Wall Street loves commies. Look up BlackRock and investments in China. Apple. Disney, NBC-Universal, GM and so on. Yes, Tesla too.

As this is the EF-JFKA, we, of course, are interested in a direct connection between CIA-Nazis and the JFKA.

It is not RM's fault that no such connection has been laid out, as such a connection is unlikely to be laid out in docs.

There is also the question of whether the CIA-Nazis were merely useful to the CIA-military, in the CIA's role (or of predecessor agencies) of fulfilling the imperatives of the corporatist-globalist class that has run US foreign, military and trade policy since the days of Smedley Butler. 

That is, US foreign-military-trade policies are run for the benefit of multinationals, and the US intel-military complex runs a global security guard service. So what were Nazis in this picture? Useful, and thus kept alive. 

But more than that? Hard to say. 

(This commentary in no way should delimit respect for earnest US soldiers who fought in WWII and succeeding conflicts, for their beliefs regarding democracy).

RM: What is the contextual definition of "principal agent"? 

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

 

(This commentary in no way should delimit respect for earnest US soldiers who fought in WWII and succeeding conflicts, for their beliefs regarding democracy).

 

 

 

 

 

Amen. I come from a military family (Navy, Air Force) but as a teenager the truth of the Vietnam debacle was coming out and I chose to go the civilian route in my career, although I did apply for Navy nuke program but did not make the cut.

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1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

If commies do business, Wall Street loves commies. Look up BlackRock and investments in China. Apple. Disney, NBC-Universal, GM and so on. Yes, Tesla too.

 

No argument there, however, there are more millionaires and billionaires in China than any other country on the globe, so you can't really call it a communist system anymore.

China hasn't been a communist state since Henry Kissinger visited in the early 1970s...

 

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

There is also the question of whether the CIA-Nazis were merely useful to the CIA-military, in the CIA's role (or of predecessor agencies) of fulfilling the imperatives of the corporatist-globalist class that has run US foreign, military and trade policy since the days of Smedley Butler. 

 

Bingo, and the man gets a cigar!

Grayson Mallet-Prevost Murphy Sr. was the man who financed the Business Plot of 1933, in order to replace the democratic processes of the United States with a fascist dictatorship.

Grayson M. P. Murphy used the Guaranty Trust Company as a financial conduit to arm elements of American Protective League as a shock-troop task force to take over the US Capitol.

Luckily, this lunacy never came to pass, because United States Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler exposed the plot:

 

 

Edited by Robert Montenegro
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44 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

(This commentary in no way should delimit respect for earnest US soldiers who fought in WWII and succeeding conflicts, for their beliefs regarding democracy).

 

Amen!

 

Both of my grandfathers and nine of my great-uncles fought in the United States Armed Forces during the Second World War, all in the European Theater of Operations, and they kicked the living guts out of the fascists all across, North Africa, Italy, France, Belgium, Denmark and Germany!

And I have thirteen great-aunts who worked in the munitions factories state-side as "Rosie Riveters."  

It makes me so proud to know I have genuine Nazi killers in my family, and their blood courses through my veins!

 

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1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

RM: What is the contextual definition of "principal agent"? 

 

The contextual definition of "principal agent" is that Prince Egon Maximilian von Hohenlohe was a surrogate handler, working directly with other agents and reporting to an actual CIA staff officerthe surrogate handler is known as a principal agent.

Meaning that Prince "Max" von Hohenlohe was a structural cut-out and a willing asset for CIA covert operations within Mexico in 1963.

I presented some supplemental evidence about a Mexican fascist organization called, "Los TECOS" which acted as a paramilitary death-squad for one of Winston M. Scott's anti-communist propaganda outlets, "Movimiento Universitario de Renovadora Orientación" (MURO), which was awarded the cryptonym "LIEVICT."

However, until we have further documentation, it is difficult to fathom just what Prince "Max" von Hohenlohe was doing, though the fact that he was very good friends with SS-Brigadeführer Walter Schellenberg, the Chief of Amt VI, Ausland-SD and the immediate supervisor of SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny, is a further indication that the research of Leslie Sharp and the late Hank Albarelli are dead-center, hit on target, correct.

Once again, it is equally fascinating and disturbing to see his name pop up in official documents.

Especially documents surrounding the CIA's "Garrison Group."

Edited by Robert Montenegro
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1 hour ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Amen. I come from a military family (Navy, Air Force) but as a teenager the truth of the Vietnam debacle was coming out and I chose to go the civilian route in my career, although I did apply for Navy nuke program but did not make the cut.

An awful lot of good guys are in the military. 

BTW, my son is in the Thai military now.  Universal (male) conscription in Thailand. That might be a good idea. 

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Anyone who would use DePino and Carlos B as serious witnesses to what Garrison was doing knows utterly nothing about what was happening in New Orleans.

And I can say that as a declarative fact.

Go ahead and read my book, Mellen's book or Bill Davy's book.

Bob is not quoting from a Garrison memo.  He is quoting from a CIA document.  These are full of disinformation.

And Bringuier was a prime font of this to both the CIA and FBI.

And anyone who studies the Garrison case would know that.

What this shows is Bob's lack of knowledge about New Orleans, and his willingness to sacrifice his credibility on the altar of  his new cause.

 

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2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Anyone who would use DePino and Carlos B as serious witnesses to what Garrison was doing knows utterly nothing about what was happening in New Orleans.

And I can say that as a declarative fact.

Go ahead and read my book, Mellen's book or Bill Davy's book.

Bob is not quoting from a Garrison memo.  He is quoting from a CIA document.  These are full of disinformation.

And Bringuier was a prime font of this to both the CIA and FBI.

And anyone who studies the Garrison case would know that.

What this shows is Bob's lack of knowledge about New Orleans, and his willingness to sacrifice his credibility on the altar of  his new cause.

 

Sam DePino and Carlos Bringuier were tasked with infiltration into Garrison's office (as were several other CIA and FBI assets) by FBI agents and CIA assets to figure out where his case was going.

I can say that as a declarative fact because it is documented.

I have read both versions of your book, Mr. DiEugenio, and Joan Mellon's far more informative book "A Farewell to Justice (Second Edition)"

And yes, I am quoting a CIA document, something literally every researcher seriously studying this case does, so that strawman-argument goes right out the damned window!

Go back and read the headers to the memos, they do concern the investigation that DA Garrison was conducting, and one of the memos is literally forwarded to the Task Force Commander of the CIA's "Garrison Group," US Army Lt. Col. Raymond George RoccaCIA Deputy Chief of Counterintelligence, Research & Analysis (DC/CI/RA).

Mr. DiEugenio, you are now engaging in personal, ad-hominem attacks, by questioning my knowledge of the investigation conducted by DA Garrison, a case I have studied at least half my life (I started studying the information surrounding the murder of President Kennedy since I was seventeen years oldI am rolling up on my thirty-second year of life in a few months here, God willing—not to mention the ten years of honorable service I have to my credit in the United States Army, which is representational of a third of my life).

What your message on my thread shows the whole world, Jim, is a completely myopic view, and your willingness to sacrifice your admittance of oversight concerning the CIA documents surrounding DA Garrison's case on the altar of your old cause.

An old cause that has been nigh updated in nearly thirty years!

Hello, there are new documents coming out practically every day, and yes, I would not know where to look if I had not read all of your published works and listened to all of the interviews you did with Dave Emory and practically every public speech you've given that has been recorded!

It is so devastating to have you attack me with strawman arguments like, "...this guy uses government records, therefore he is an idiot...?!"

Practically all of the research Jefferson MorleyBill Simpich, and Larry Hancock, the latter two researchers who have literally utilized my work in the past, (especially Bill Simpich, just ask him) is from government documents!

I am deeply hurt that a hero of my, Mr. DiEugenio, a hero of mine, would question my work ethics or the sources I use, especially ever since I have been personally trained by Mr. Simpich, across hundreds of hours of phone calls with him (go ahead an verify that last part with Bill, he'll confirm it), about how to expertly read and navigate government documents.

On several occasions in our phone conversations together, Bill has said my research genuinely parallels or even surpasses his (a humbling statement, to be sure, but those are Bill's words, not mine).

 

Two things before I stop engaging with you here today:

 

I think you're comments here to-day, questioning my ethics and motivations as a researcher are absolutely deplorable—I don't even know what to say—you basically called me a dupe for doing what other fine researchers have done in the past, use government documents.

 

And lastly, you have already signed off on most of the research I have presented in this post with the interviews you did with my personal friend Dave Emory:

 

 

Remember that broadcast, Jim?

 

Or are you just going senile?

 

This isn't the Ministry of TruthJim—I can find out every electronic record about you at the touch of a button—it's called the internet—you cannot hide that you have signed off on the research I have presented here before—plus, as I have stated before, I am personal friends with Dave Emory, so I know what was said before and after takes and I know what wasn't broadcast.

 

Sure you want to tango with me, and resort to personal attacks?

 

Absolutely despicable that you have nothing of substance to say about the research I have presented here to-day, and instead choose to resort to strawman arguments about usage government documents and wholly unfounded negative insinuendos concerning the ethics of my methods.

 

Sick.

 

I am literally sick right now.

 

I know this is really about my questioning of COL. Prouty's service record, is it not?

 

This is petty, and you were my hero Jim.

 

 

Edited by Robert Montenegro
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9 hours ago, Robert Montenegro said:

 

Luckily, this lunacy never came to pass, because United States Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler exposed the plot:

 

 

Who was our Smedley Butler of January 6th, 2021?

General John Kelley?

General Mark Milley?

Edited by Joe Bauer
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