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Japanese linguist John Hurt


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In the course of his research Jim Root has come up with the names of two very interesting and significant players - Col. Alfred McCormack and Whitney H. Shepardson, who I thought deserved their own thread.

Col. Alfred McCormack

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13852

Whitney H. Shepardson

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13809

I believe it has become rather obvious that at some point, a Cryptology thread may be needed.....

With that in mind, I can think of several persons who might have an interest....

There is a quarterly journal entitled Cryptologia, that has, in the past published some material related to William Friedman, the JN-25 Series of Ciphers and William and McGeorge Bundy's knowledge of such arcane matters.

The following URL may illustrate my point....

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Crypto...amp;btnG=Search

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Robert

I appreciate your interest in this area....I certainly do believe that it is not only relavent to the assassination story but may be the key to unlocking the mystery.

The follow emails are part of some correspondence I have had with a significant author/publisher in the field of Cryptology who would perfer that his name not be used. He has reviewed my research and feels that it has merit in this area:

From: "Jim Root" <jroot@avhsd.org>

To:

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:14 PM

Subject: Herbert O. Yardley mystery

> Mr.

>

> Several years ago you wrote an article titled, ********

>

>

> I have recently stumbled across some information that may shed a little

> lite on this "mystery."

>

> Please allow me to present a few pieces of information and then attempt to

> make some sense out of those pieces where it concerns Yardley/Grombach and

> the Secret Intelligence Branch.

>

> During my research into Operation Stella Polaris and the OSS Stockholm

> Station I began digging into the background of Wilho Tikander, Chief of

> Station, Stockholm. Several years ago I traveled to St. Louis County, MN

> (birthplace of Tikander) and was able to develop a rather interesting

> picture of his early life.

>

> In recent months I was able to uncover a paper written by Tikander about

> the OSS Station in Stockholm, which makes reference to Stella Polaris.

> Iver C. Olsen was a member of the OSS Stockholm team and within the cache

> of documents that I received is a letter from him as well. (Richard Helms

> was a member of Tikander's group as well).

>

> Olsen has recently been identified as a member of Grombach's Pond group in

> relation to his activities dealing with Raoul Wallenberg.

>

> In referencing Anthony Cave Brown's book, "Wild Bill Donovan, The Last

> Hero" I was surprised to find little if any information about the

> Stockholm OSS Station and no references to Grombach. Within that same

> book though it does reference Whitney Shepardson as OSS Secret

> Intelligence Chief which conflicts with Grombach's assertion...or does it?

>

> A Council on Foreign Relations bio on Whitney Shepardson has this comment,

> "Shepardson headed the Secret Intelligence unit of the Office of Strategic

> Services..."

>

> As you mention in your article Grombach states, "all members of the Secret

> Intelligence Branch, which I directed..."

>

> In "The Great Liquidator" Grombach also mentions how it was his

> organization that discovered the massacre of Polish officers at Kaytn

> Forrest. In Tikanders material he references the collection of this

> information by agents controlled by his station. Coincidence perhaps but

> interesting in combination with the rest of the information that I have

> gathered and leads to the suggestion at least that OSS Station was in

> large part controlled by Secret Intelligence and perhaps by Grombach.

>

> Now let me see if I can tie together how my research has led me to this

> point.

>

> In the document, "A Version of The Japanese Problem in the Signal

> Intelligence Service" by John B. Hurt, Hurt references Stella Polaris. It

> does so not by name but by information gathered from transmissions to

> Helsinki via Japan. This seems to put Hurt in the middle of the early

> stages of Venona while at the same time placing Yardley (Via Grombach and

> the Pond) in a position to parallel and monitor members of the Venona

> Team.

>

> A suggestion could also be made that Richard Helms was a Grombach man.

> The biography of Allen Dulles, which details the Grombach/Dulles debate

> places Helms as a person who had a "private" intelligence organization

> that he maintained after the war. Was this Grombach's organization which

> Helms was connected to in Stockholm?

>

> Whitney Shepardson is well known for his Cold War work with Radio Liberty

> and Radio Free Europe....Grombach's background in using commercial radio

> transmissions for the dissemination of coded messages is an additional

> point of interest that may fit into this story as well.

>

> I know this may sound complicated (I have gathered a great deal of

> additional information that supports and surrounds what I have here

> provided).

>

> Does this area of research strike any sort of cord with you? Could it

> help to begin to explain the Yardley/Grombach mystery that you mentioned?

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jim Root

> History Teacher

In reply I received this email:

Jim Root:

Thank you for describing the result of your excellent research with me. You

have done an excellent job of collecting data and putting it together.

Most of what you mention certainly sounds familiar....

If you have not yet done it, I strongly suggest that you write an article on

your work for CRYPTOLOGIA, a publication that three friends and I founded

about 40 years ago and years later sold it to its current owner, Taylor &

Francis Group.

Good luck.

The author of this article had, he has since sold his collection, a copy of John B. Hurt's, ""A Version of The Japanese Problem in the Signal Intelligence Service" and is familiar with his work.

The Grombach, Shepardson, DeMohrenschildt, McCloy, Hurt, Oswald connection is TO coincidental, in my opinion, to be overlooked, especially considering the fact that Shepardson was collecting information about Helsinki for Richard Helms in June of 1959.

Jim Root

Edited by Jim Root
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Robert

I appreciate your interest in this area....I certainly do believe that it is not only relavent to the assassination story but may be the key to unlocking the mystery.

The follow emails are part of some correspondence I have had with a significant author/publisher in the field of Cryptology who would perfer that his name not be used. He has reviewed my research and feels that it has merit in this area:

From: "Jim Root" <jroot@avhsd.org>

To:

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:14 PM

Subject: Herbert O. Yardley mystery

> Mr.

>

> Several years ago you wrote an article titled, ********

>

>

> I have recently stumbled across some information that may shed a little

> lite on this "mystery."

>

> Please allow me to present a few pieces of information and then attempt to

> make some sense out of those pieces where it concerns Yardley/Grombach and

> the Secret Intelligence Branch.

>

> During my research into Operation Stella Polaris and the OSS Stockholm

> Station I began digging into the background of Wilho Tikander, Chief of

> Station, Stockholm. Several years ago I traveled to St. Louis County, MN

> (birthplace of Tikander) and was able to develop a rather interesting

> picture of his early life.

>

> In recent months I was able to uncover a paper written by Tikander about

> the OSS Station in Stockholm, which makes reference to Stella Polaris.

> Iver C. Olsen was a member of the OSS Stockholm team and within the cache

> of documents that I received is a letter from him as well. (Richard Helms

> was a member of Tikander's group as well).

>

> Olsen has recently been identified as a member of Grombach's Pond group in

> relation to his activities dealing with Raoul Wallenberg.

>

> In referencing Anthony Cave Brown's book, "Wild Bill Donovan, The Last

> Hero" I was surprised to find little if any information about the

> Stockholm OSS Station and no references to Grombach. Within that same

> book though it does reference Whitney Shepardson as OSS Secret

> Intelligence Chief which conflicts with Grombach's assertion...or does it?

>

> A Council on Foreign Relations bio on Whitney Shepardson has this comment,

> "Shepardson headed the Secret Intelligence unit of the Office of Strategic

> Services..."

>

> As you mention in your article Grombach states, "all members of the Secret

> Intelligence Branch, which I directed..."

>

> In "The Great Liquidator" Grombach also mentions how it was his

> organization that discovered the massacre of Polish officers at Kaytn

> Forrest. In Tikanders material he references the collection of this

> information by agents controlled by his station. Coincidence perhaps but

> interesting in combination with the rest of the information that I have

> gathered and leads to the suggestion at least that OSS Station was in

> large part controlled by Secret Intelligence and perhaps by Grombach.

>

> Now let me see if I can tie together how my research has led me to this

> point.

>

> In the document, "A Version of The Japanese Problem in the Signal

> Intelligence Service" by John B. Hurt, Hurt references Stella Polaris. It

> does so not by name but by information gathered from transmissions to

> Helsinki via Japan. This seems to put Hurt in the middle of the early

> stages of Venona while at the same time placing Yardley (Via Grombach and

> the Pond) in a position to parallel and monitor members of the Venona

> Team.

>

> A suggestion could also be made that Richard Helms was a Grombach man.

> The biography of Allen Dulles, which details the Grombach/Dulles debate

> places Helms as a person who had a "private" intelligence organization

> that he maintained after the war. Was this Grombach's organization which

> Helms was connected to in Stockholm?

>

> Whitney Shepardson is well known for his Cold War work with Radio Liberty

> and Radio Free Europe....Grombach's background in using commercial radio

> transmissions for the dissemination of coded messages is an additional

> point of interest that may fit into this story as well.

>

> I know this may sound complicated (I have gathered a great deal of

> additional information that supports and surrounds what I have here

> provided).

>

> Does this area of research strike any sort of cord with you? Could it

> help to begin to explain the Yardley/Grombach mystery that you mentioned?

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jim Root

> History Teacher

In reply I received this email:

Jim Root:

Thank you for describing the result of your excellent research with me. You

have done an excellent job of collecting data and putting it together.

Most of what you mention certainly sounds familiar....

If you have not yet done it, I strongly suggest that you write an article on

your work for CRYPTOLOGIA, a publication that three friends and I founded

about 40 years ago and years later sold it to its current owner, Taylor &

Francis Group.

Good luck.

The author of this article had, he has since sold his collection, a copy of John B. Hurt's, ""A Version of The Japanese Problem in the Signal Intelligence Service" and is familiar with his work.

The Grombach, Shepardson, DeMohrenschildt, McCloy, Hurt, Oswald connection is TO coincidental, in my opinion, to be overlooked, especially considering the fact that Shepardson was collecting information about Helsinki for Richard Helms in June of 1959.

Jim Root

On good turn deserves another, the cryptology aspect of various sub-topics is beyond important. I did not know even know until this morning that a quarterly journal entitled Cryptologia existed.

There is one issue I looked at from October 2004; Volume XXVIII Number 4,

There are for the most part, two articles that are pertinent.

One is entitled The Breaking of the Japanese Army's Codes - Joseph E. Richard

and the other is entitled

The Flaw in the JN25 Series of Ciphers - Peter Donovan

Probably for me the Joseph E. Richard article is the most illuminating......

First, the Joseph E. Richard biographical sketch.

Joseph E. Richard is a retired National Security Agency analyst. He is credited with being the first American to find the way

into a Japanese army code. He was made a warrant officer and received the Legion of Merit medal in 1944. In June 1993, he was inducted into the U.S. Army Military Intelligence Hall of Fame. He has furnished information to several World War II historians including Dr. Edward J. Drea, author of MacArthur's ULTRA, and Michael Smith, author of The Emperor's Codes.

In his article, he mentions that he was put on a train to Ft. MacArthur in Los Angeles in April, 1941. He decides he wants to go to the Cryptanalysis School at Fort Monmouth. Later, there is a segment which reads "The class immediately started work on the course that W.F. Friedman designed for the ROTC. I found it very interesting. Some in the school at that time who later distinguished themselves were, as I recall, Lambros Demetrios Callimahos, who later became an assistant to Friedman, writing crypt texts and courses, and the brothers William and McGeorge Bundy, who went through the course so fast that at least one of us wondered whether someone was giving them the answers. William later headed the U.S. unit working on the Enigma in England and was awarded a British OBE and an American Legion of Merit. "

My interest in cryptology is not limited to historical facts regarding the Bundy's or even John Hurt, although that is probably a major part of my interest......

Other areas include the Grille Cipher, which, if I am not mistaken is a cipher that the NSA studied after the JFK Assassination regarding a possession of Lee Oswald's.

And if I haven't mentioned it previously, although you probably already know, William Friedman and the same Labros Callimahos shared joint authorship of the book Military Cryptoanalysis Laguna Hills CA: Aegean Park Press - 1959

http://books.google.com/books?id=JdsAAAAACAAJ&dq

We have some shared interests one obviously is Edwin Walker and the Greek desk at the Pentagon.......

Do you think the Joannides, Walker, Karramessines trio has everything to do with why those files were destroyed?

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Robert

You asked:

"We have some shared interests one obviously is Edwin Walker and the Greek desk at the Pentagon.......

Do you think the Joannides, Walker, Karramessines trio has everything to do with why those files were destroyed?"

I believe that Walker was a much bigger fish than the official history would have us believe. Walker is very well connected and pops up in many places that one would not expect to find a man whom official history suggests was just some "right wing nut."

What attracts my attention even more than the Greek desk/Karramessines/Walker/Joannides connection (not to say that that is not of interest) is Oswald's journey from London to Helsinki. They leave out the passenger lists that were available at the time and I, with Antti Hynoonen, have pieced together how Walker and Oswald COULD have been on the same plane out of London in Oct. 1959.

The fact that the day before Oswald landed in Helsinki US Ambassador John Hickerson sent a note to the State Department outlining exactly what a person would need to do to easily receive a visa into Russia via the Soviet Embassy in Helsinki and that Oswald did exactly what was in those instructions seems, at least to me, to indicate that Oswald was working within some sort of operational plan!

Was Walker his contact?

If Oswald was not aware of whom he was really working for and Oswald was, a patsy ("The reason I'm being arrested is because I went to the Soviet Union, I'm a PATSY") he would have a motive to want to kill Walker.....who was the leader of a bad organization.

I do not believe Oswald was supposed to return from the Soviet Union. If whomever in US Intelligence became aware of the fact that Oswald was going to return they had to "BURN" his contact, Walker (?)! But Oswald's 201 File would have to be altered as well to delete all information on him prior to and including his defection (which we know it was).

It is my belief that Walker was dumbfounded on why his "Pro Blue" program (that he had been using for years) suddenly became unacceptable.

Robert, I have had an opportunity to see some of Walker's personal papers....enough to lead me to believe that Walker was shocked and searching for why he was "BURNED." (By the way Walker's copy of the McCloy letter was at the top of his personal papers files that have been restricted from researchers). Walker shows that he knew that he was "BURNED" and he believed that it was the CIA that had "BURNED" him but he did not understand why.......that is, I believe, until he saw Oswald's face on TV after the assassiantion of JFK. It is my further belief that it was at that point that Walker knew exactly what was up and quickly figured out that it was Oswald who had attempted to kill him seven months earlier....and that he could (because Oswald could connect Walker to his defection to the Soviet Union) be implicated in the assassination of JFK as well. Toss in the McCloy letter to Walker (put in a very public location that could easily be found), five months before the assasination, and you can see why Walker would be fearful of being implicated in the assassination of JFK....in panic, Walker had to do something fast.... he makes contact with a German publication and gets his story out before being implicated....he had to separate himself from Oswald without using a US publication......but then Oswald is killed and all is well with Walker....

For me the pieces seem to connect very well........

Jim Root

Edited by Jim Root
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Jim, I wonder about part of that. (most seems to me quite coherent and am looking forward to see where you take this scenario).

Kennedy had given an Executive Order that Walker clearly disobeyed. That's not on. Kennedy was Commander in Chief. (Walker was also spying on the personell where he was based in Germany, and he glibly passed over the death of his driver). Before being reassigned and then resigning, he and his lawyer Brig Gen Watts (OK) were written off by the FBI as cranks re the MAD mag issues).

He had earlier tendered his resignation (refused) before reluctantly following orders in Little Rock in the latter fifties, and after later resigning under the Kennedy presidency came 'the muzzling of the military' investigation led by arch-segregationist Thurmond (of which Prescott Bush was a part), he commanded the armed insurrection against the Federal Government in Oxford involving armed persons from throughout the south that rallied to his and the Gov of Mississippis call for 10.000 guns from all Confederate States. He was arrested and underwent a humiliating psych evaluation replete with stories of lobotomies. Then he hung his flag upside down during JFK's term. His investigators from Watts (Lawyers Watts, Loony and co :) ) in Oklahoma reportedly, and testified to by Walker, found no reason to suspect Oswald re the Walker shooting.

edit : typo

Edited by John Dolva
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John

You bring up some interesting points. Let me see if I can provide some information based upon the research that I have done in this area.

"Kennedy had given an Executive Order that Walker clearly disobeyed."

If you overlap the timming of the "Overseas Weekly" article (and when they began thier research for the article) another interesting coincidence occurs....of course depending upon whom you believe.

According to the Warren Commission Report the first letter written by Oswald requesting that he be allowed to return to the United States from the Soviet Union was written after the research for the Overseas Weekly article had already began. This would seem to indicate that the "BURNING" of Walker could not be related to Oswald's intent to return. But a careful examination of Oswald's letter shows that Oswald states that the letter that the Warren Commission Report identifies as his first letter was in Oswald's words his second. The timming that Oswald provides for his reported "first letter" (that, if actually written, has somehow disappeared from his 201 File, go figure) predates the begining of the Overseas Weekly investigation into Walker's Pro Blue Program. Since we find that Oswlad 201 File activity seems to start with his request to return to the United States, which John Newman (Oswald and the CIA) seems to question, we can suggest, with some degree of confidence, that Oswald's request to return to the Unites States may have stirred up a hornets nest!

If Oswald did in fact write that first note......who would have wanted it to disappear? That is a very big question.....and the only reason that it would have needed to have disappeared would be to disassociate Oswald from whomever was controlling his activities. Taken a step further.....if the Oswald "first" letter triggered the BURNING" of Walker....how big was the operation that involved Oswald? Was it to produce an event that would guarrentee the failure of the Paris Summit (an event that John J. McCloy wanted to have fail)?

Taken a step further....the U-2 incident and the failure of the Paris Summit occured during the Presidential Primary of 1960. It can be shown that in what was a close Democratic Primary, Kennedy rocketed to the lead after the U-2 Incident. The Presidential campaign took place while an international side show was also occuring, the trial of Francis Gary Powers, in the Soviet Union. The news reports were a daily reminder of a failed Eisenhower/Nixon endeavor that Kennedy did exploit with his Missle Gap/Bomber Gap/Soft on Communism rethoric.

Some might (including myself) suggest that without the U-2 Incident and the failure of the Paris Summit Kennedy may not have won his parties primary let alone the Presidential Election of 1960.... Then at Kennedy's first press conference as President(in the first paragraph) Kennedy announces the resumption of nuclear testing and introduces his lead arms negotiator John J. McCloy! Was this a reward for handing Kennedy the presidency?

IF, a big IF I guess, the return of Lee Harvey Oswald to the United States could be an avenue to implicate the United States Army in the downing of the U-2..............could then, even the election of President Kennedy be called into question as a minipulation of public opinion??????? Interesting thought that would provide a good reason to have Walker portrayed as a "right wing nut" rather than the celebrated war hero and dedicated professional that he actually was and distanced as far away as possible from the President.

Your second point:

"He (Walker) had earlier tendered his resignation (refused) before reluctantly following orders in Little Rock in the latter fifties"

My research seems to indicate that this is an "urban legend" that seems to have been perpetuated by the assassination research community in general. An actual study of Eisenhower's decision to insert Federal authority and troops into the situation at Little Rock shows that when given his orders Walker began the movement of troops and was on the ground in Little Rock within hours. The timeline allows little opportunity for Walker to comtemplate a resignation let alone "tender" that resignation to some higher authority and then be dissuaded from actually resigning. Contemporary reports also show that when Eisenhower made his decision, Army Chief of Staff Maxwell Taylor was given responsibility to select both the troops to be involved and the commander to be assigned.....Taylor, according to a Time Magazine article, selected his "old comrade in arms" Maj. Gen. Edwin Anderson Walker to command. Then, rather than being hesident to follow his orders, Walker would be later criticized for issuing live ammunition to his troops and assuring the unruly Little Rock residents of his intention to fire if necessary to insure the implimentation of the orders that he (Walker) had been given. There was an incident with fixed bayonents that seemed to have made Walker's intentions very clear to the crowds involved!

Walker himself seems to have relished the command as well. He was hailed as a darling of the Civil Rights movement at the time but found himself emersed in the gentried society of Little Rock since he himself was considered both an eligible bachelor as well as a Southern Gentleman and War Hero.

To me one of the more interesting events surrounding Walker's time in Arkansas was his sudden departure in October of 1959........just in time to perhaps cross paths with Oswald as they both traveled to Europe.

Jim Root

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Jim, with regards to the second point there are articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation but also that of his company. It was refused and the order stood. At this time, Walker was following orders albeit apparently reluctantly. Following his reassignment and subsequent resignation and the Oxford insurrection (which I don't think many appreciate for what it was : a very serious crime that the Kennedy's, McBride, and Katzenbach, dealt with involving minute by minute phonecalls plus a revelation to the Governor that the conversations had been taped and the Kennedy's were prepared to release them and severely embarass the Governor. At this point he relented but attended a football match wher he was hailed as a hero and Walker went ahead with Commanding this >Insurrection<. Kennedy considered it so serious that even though persons were recognised as deserving medals he choose to 'hide' the events. People got killed, the MSC launched a massive disinfo campaign that only ended in part upon paper revelations that the MSC's film 'Oxford' (by Simms in Dallas) was declared false by a person who saw it and questioned it publicly. Meanwhile it had certainly contributed to the atmosphere within which JFK was murdered. On a related vein, Medgar Evers assassin was visted in court by Walker (and the Governor), this is significant because the trial and the gathering of evidence, Beckwiths acquittal, and the MO. bore a strong resemblance to the Kennedy assassination and the trial a model of how a southern court could juggle evidence that really was conclusive into something in the arena of doubt and thus applied to a scenario had Oswald gone to court. I wonder then what Walker would have done, who himself stated he didn't believe it was Oswald who shot at him. If not turning up to shake his hand...

edit:typos

Edited by John Dolva
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John

Looking deeper into point two, you state:

"Jim, with regards to the second point there are articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation but also that of his company. It was refused and the order stood."

When I first began to accumulate deeper information on Walker I was puzzled by lack of consistency in his actions albeit Little Rock versus Oxford. One of the keys that I found that SEEMS to suggest an answer is contained in your point of "articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation..." I have never found an article or document from the 1956 period that quotes Walker as tendering his resignation. If you have found such a document I would love to see it!

On the other hand once we have the Pro Blue article (that overlaps Oswald's attempt to return to the US) Walker's actions, then speeches, start to take on a much different tone. It seems to be at this point that we find "article/docs of the time" which seem to support Walker's willingness to have resigned in 1956. But this is four years later.....

While searching the Walker papers we find that early in the Pro Blue controversy Walker is searching for information on "the why" he is being "BURNED." During this period he is reassigned and then he resigns his commission. It is also during this period that Walker takes the plunge into the "right wing" world of politics while he stops searching for answers to why he is being "BURNED." I might suggest that an interesting quirk in American law may hold the answer (and it fits neatly into my scenario). The United States military is not allowed to spy on US Citizens. By resigning his commission Walker becomes free to enter into the "radical right wing" world of the 1960's and does in fact become sort of a poster boy for this movement.

In reality this suggestion actually does fit in well with Walker's career vocation in intelligence/counterintelligence and would be consistent with his accepting any assignment/command that he was given despite the potential personal sacrifice. This scenario also would explain the reinstatement of Walker's retirement benefits at a later date that was done, after being refused within normal channels, by the anonymous hand of some unseen (it appears) benefactor in the highest levels of government.

If true my suggestion would provide cover for two intelligence problems.... It would distance Walker from any government agencies in the event Oswald, upon his return to the US, could implicate Walker in support of Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union and the downing of the U-2 (and failure of the Paris Summit) and it would provide Walker with the necessary right wing credentials to go "undercover" into the right wing movement in America. It would also placate Walker as to why he was being "BURNED" so to speak. Walker, it seems upon a quick review (as in not in depth review) seems to end his search for answers as to why he is being burned and, like a chameleon, resigns and assumes the roll of right wing spokesman (hinting at his previous thoughts of resigning during the Little Rock crisis).

While the plausibility of this can easily be questioned there is another parallel example that occurred in the Soviet Union...the Yuri Nosenko case. In Nosenko's story we find the Soviet Union agreeing to allow Oswald, his wife and child to leave the Soviet Union corresponds to Nosenko making contact with CIA officials in, I believe it was, Switzerland. Is it a coincidence that both Cold War Super Powers could have their own highly placed intelligence assets both prepare to "defect" their careers and loyalty to their countries based upon such a closely choreographed Oswald timeline? (Suggest you read Walker's final interview for some interesting reading with this suggestion in mind)

Nosenko defects shortly after the assassination (I believe McCloy misses a Warren Commission meeting and is in Switzerland when Nosenko defects by the way) and Nosenko just happens to be the man who has all the information on Oswald in the Soviet Union and is there to reassure the world that Oswald did not in any way work for the Soviets. In the parallel US example, Oswald assassinates the president and Walker provides information of Oswald's previous attempt on his own life, deflecting any examination of a connection between Oswald, Walker and US Intelligence Operations (U-2 Incident????).

If all of this did in fact occur the way that I have suggested Oswald would have to have figured out the connections as well. We find a suggestion that this scenario may in fact be supported by Oswald himself when we examine Oswald's speech at Spring Hill College which focuses on the U-2 Incident and the failure of the Paris Summit....

We also know that James Jesus Angleton never believed Nosenko was what he said he was.....this beginning with Nosenko's first contact with the CIA several years prior to the assassination of JFK. Question to ponder: If Oswald, as Walker would suggest in his final interview, was working for both the Soviets and US Intelligence organizations, but was actually a "Patsy" of both organizations, would both intelligence organization react in the same way and prepare a plausible deniability scenario in the event Oswald did something stupid (like assassinate JFK)? It seems that we can make a plausible case that both the Soviet and American Intelligence organizations took exactly the same actions with people (Walker/Nosenko) that could be linked to the previous actions of Lee Harvey Oswlad.

Angelton would know that Nosenko was not a "bonifide" defector from the beginning because, in my opinion, Angleton knew that Nosenko worked in an agency that would have a connection to Oswald who was attempting to return to the US. Once again you would have such a tightly held operation involving Oswald that only very few would be "in the know." If Angleton was aware of Oswald he would, probably, also know that US Intelligence was having to "Burn" Walker for the same reason. I believe that Angleton's suggestion of Oswald as the "Orchid Man" can fit into this scenario quite well.

Was Angleton another casualty of an operation that involved Oswald that was so big that it could shake the foundations of both Cold War powers?

And, as it seems, the events surrounding the downing of the U-2 and the failure of the Paris Summit were that important (at least they were that important to John J. McCloy)!

Jim Root

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John

Looking deeper into point two, you state:

"Jim, with regards to the second point there are articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation but also that of his company. It was refused and the order stood."

When I first began to accumulate deeper information on Walker I was puzzled by lack of consistency in his actions albeit Little Rock versus Oxford. One of the keys that I found that SEEMS to suggest an answer is contained in your point of "articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation..." I have never found an article or document from the 1956 period that quotes Walker as tendering his resignation. If you have found such a document I would love to see it!

On the other hand once we have the Pro Blue article (that overlaps Oswald's attempt to return to the US) Walker's actions, then speeches, start to take on a much different tone. It seems to be at this point that we find "article/docs of the time" which seem to support Walker's willingness to have resigned in 1956. But this is four years later.....

While searching the Walker papers we find that early in the Pro Blue controversy Walker is searching for information on "the why" he is being "BURNED." During this period he is reassigned and then he resigns his commission. It is also during this period that Walker takes the plunge into the "right wing" world of politics while he stops searching for answers to why he is being "BURNED." I might suggest that an interesting quirk in American law may hold the answer (and it fits neatly into my scenario). The United States military is not allowed to spy on US Citizens. By resigning his commission Walker becomes free to enter into the "radical right wing" world of the 1960's and does in fact become sort of a poster boy for this movement.

In reality this suggestion actually does fit in well with Walker's career vocation in intelligence/counterintelligence and would be consistent with his accepting any assignment/command that he was given despite the potential personal sacrifice. This scenario also would explain the reinstatement of Walker's retirement benefits at a later date that was done, after being refused within normal channels, by the anonymous hand of some unseen (it appears) benefactor in the highest levels of government.

If true my suggestion would provide cover for two intelligence problems.... It would distance Walker from any government agencies in the event Oswald, upon his return to the US, could implicate Walker in support of Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union and the downing of the U-2 (and failure of the Paris Summit) and it would provide Walker with the necessary right wing credentials to go "undercover" into the right wing movement in America. It would also placate Walker as to why he was being "BURNED" so to speak. Walker, it seems upon a quick review (as in not in depth review) seems to end his search for answers as to why he is being burned and, like a chameleon, resigns and assumes the roll of right wing spokesman (hinting at his previous thoughts of resigning during the Little Rock crisis).

While the plausibility of this can easily be questioned there is another parallel example that occurred in the Soviet Union...the Yuri Nosenko case. In Nosenko's story we find the Soviet Union agreeing to allow Oswald, his wife and child to leave the Soviet Union corresponds to Nosenko making contact with CIA officials in, I believe it was, Switzerland. Is it a coincidence that both Cold War Super Powers could have their own highly placed intelligence assets both prepare to "defect" their careers and loyalty to their countries based upon such a closely choreographed Oswald timeline? (Suggest you read Walker's final interview for some interesting reading with this suggestion in mind)

Nosenko defects shortly after the assassination (I believe McCloy misses a Warren Commission meeting and is in Switzerland when Nosenko defects by the way) and Nosenko just happens to be the man who has all the information on Oswald in the Soviet Union and is there to reassure the world that Oswald did not in any way work for the Soviets. In the parallel US example, Oswald assassinates the president and Walker provides information of Oswald's previous attempt on his own life, deflecting any examination of a connection between Oswald, Walker and US Intelligence Operations (U-2 Incident????).

If all of this did in fact occur the way that I have suggested Oswald would have to have figured out the connections as well. We find a suggestion that this scenario may in fact be supported by Oswald himself when we examine Oswald's speech at Spring Hill College which focuses on the U-2 Incident and the failure of the Paris Summit....

We also know that James Jesus Angleton never believed Nosenko was what he said he was.....this beginning with Nosenko's first contact with the CIA several years prior to the assassination of JFK. Question to ponder: If Oswald, as Walker would suggest in his final interview, was working for both the Soviets and US Intelligence organizations, but was actually a "Patsy" of both organizations, would both intelligence organization react in the same way and prepare a plausible deniability scenario in the event Oswald did something stupid (like assassinate JFK)? It seems that we can make a plausible case that both the Soviet and American Intelligence organizations took exactly the same actions with people (Walker/Nosenko) that could be linked to the previous actions of Lee Harvey Oswlad.

Angelton would know that Nosenko was not a "bonifide" defector from the beginning because, in my opinion, Angleton knew that Nosenko worked in an agency that would have a connection to Oswald who was attempting to return to the US. Once again you would have such a tightly held operation involving Oswald that only very few would be "in the know." If Angleton was aware of Oswald he would, probably, also know that US Intelligence was having to "Burn" Walker for the same reason. I believe that Angleton's suggestion of Oswald as the "Orchid Man" can fit into this scenario quite well.

Was Angleton another casualty of an operation that involved Oswald that was so big that it could shake the foundations of both Cold War powers?

And, as it seems, the events surrounding the downing of the U-2 and the failure of the Paris Summit were that important (at least they were that important to John J. McCloy)!

Jim Root

I suppose the area that Jim and I share a perspective on Edwin Walker is that he, at least in my opinion, holds several keys to unlocking the last mysteries of the conspiracy that killed John F. Kennedy....

So, what are those keys?

Well, for the sake of my postulation they revolve around various unknowns about Walker's unknown connections to other persons who do factor in the equation.

One would be what Jim has already mentioned, re Whitney Shepardson, Stella Polaris and Grombach.

Two would be deciphering the back and forth between the news stories and the interview Walker did with Munich Deutsche National Zeitung, on Nov. 29, 1963. In which said article stated "Lee Oswald was the person who took the shot at General Walker and he was arrested that night but RFK called Dallas and had him released."

I personally believe this was a lie, and to bolster my assertion, if it was true the onus would have been on Bobby, seemingly to confirm or deny that the allegation was true. Insofar as I can tell, RFK never addressed the issue one way or another, which leads me to believe that he didn't respond because it wasn't true...Remember there was a similar accusation that Oswald and Ruby had been arrested in a incident where they were fighting each other, and again like the US calvary riding to the rescue, someone in Washington supposedly tells the Dallas police to drop it. Even though I believe it also was an untruth, why Jim Garrison didn't try to use this as ersatz leverage in the Clay Shaw trial, is something of a mystery to me. As it could have forced either the Dallas Police or RFK to comment on it...But that is just an opinion of mine..

It is also worth mentioning that aside from statements that were not made in a court of law, one problem with Walker in a major role in the assassination, is that he didn't seem to be somebody with a great deal of money, circa 1963. But that does not mean he couldn't have acted as a facilitator in some capacity. And he was a donor in the Silviera/DRE gatherings, although I believe his donation was more symbolic than anything.

For myself, the German case involving Anton Erdinger has a possible even likely bearing on what was afoot in Germany prior to the assassination. That was a case where there was an allegation that someone had stated that Kennedy had better be careful if he goes down to the south campaigning, and this allegedly happened around the time of JFK's visit to the Bradenburg Gate, Ich Bein Ein Berliner!

Also, the matter of CUSA and Burley, Weissman, and Schmidt, was always an area that I felt could have involved Walker, in fact, I believe if Walker acted as a facilitator, it was in relation to those individuals I just mentioned. I do not believe the Warren Commission wanted to even address that area, and from what I can tell the HSCA was not any more eager to do so either.....

Lastly, there is another area of interest to me, which may, or may not be pertinent. On September 2nd, 1963 Vice President Johnson and his wife made a trip to Scandinavia, visiting the countries of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland, arriving back on approximately Sept. 18, 1963.

See Dallas Morning News - Lady Bird Sums Up Travel Experience - Sept. 20, 1963. They received a ticker-tape parade in Helsinki, according to the article. I am particularly interested in this trip, I am sure it was in an official capacity, of course, but the place and the timing make me curious as to who he may have met with......

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Johnson was in Finland for 3-4 days. He went to Lapland (Rovaniemi) and to Turku, in addition to being in the capital Helsinki.

During his visit he distributed pens to the public. Many here thought this was bizarre as we had an ample supply of pens at that time. However, in neighboring Russia they may have been rationed. I guess the State department gave him some bad information.

Some pics of Johnson's visit to Finland and some other pics of Government official's visits to Finland over the years (link below). President Urho K. Kekkonen was Johnson's host during his visit here.

http://finland.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/041_048tt8393.pdf

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John

Looking deeper into point two, you state:

"Jim, with regards to the second point there are articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation but also that of his company. It was refused and the order stood."

When I first began to accumulate deeper information on Walker I was puzzled by lack of consistency in his actions albeit Little Rock versus Oxford. One of the keys that I found that SEEMS to suggest an answer is contained in your point of "articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation..." I have never found an article or document from the 1956 period that quotes Walker as tendering his resignation. If you have found such a document I would love to see it!

On the other hand once we have the Pro Blue article (that overlaps Oswald's attempt to return to the US) Walker's actions, then speeches, start to take on a much different tone. It seems to be at this point that we find "article/docs of the time" which seem to support Walker's willingness to have resigned in 1956. But this is four years later.....

While searching the Walker papers we find that early in the Pro Blue controversy Walker is searching for information on "the why" he is being "BURNED." During this period he is reassigned and then he resigns his commission. It is also during this period that Walker takes the plunge into the "right wing" world of politics while he stops searching for answers to why he is being "BURNED." I might suggest that an interesting quirk in American law may hold the answer (and it fits neatly into my scenario). The United States military is not allowed to spy on US Citizens. By resigning his commission Walker becomes free to enter into the "radical right wing" world of the 1960's and does in fact become sort of a poster boy for this movement.

In reality this suggestion actually does fit in well with Walker's career vocation in intelligence/counterintelligence and would be consistent with his accepting any assignment/command that he was given despite the potential personal sacrifice. This scenario also would explain the reinstatement of Walker's retirement benefits at a later date that was done, after being refused within normal channels, by the anonymous hand of some unseen (it appears) benefactor in the highest levels of government.

If true my suggestion would provide cover for two intelligence problems.... It would distance Walker from any government agencies in the event Oswald, upon his return to the US, could implicate Walker in support of Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union and the downing of the U-2 (and failure of the Paris Summit) and it would provide Walker with the necessary right wing credentials to go "undercover" into the right wing movement in America. It would also placate Walker as to why he was being "BURNED" so to speak. Walker, it seems upon a quick review (as in not in depth review) seems to end his search for answers as to why he is being burned and, like a chameleon, resigns and assumes the roll of right wing spokesman (hinting at his previous thoughts of resigning during the Little Rock crisis).

While the plausibility of this can easily be questioned there is another parallel example that occurred in the Soviet Union...the Yuri Nosenko case. In Nosenko's story we find the Soviet Union agreeing to allow Oswald, his wife and child to leave the Soviet Union corresponds to Nosenko making contact with CIA officials in, I believe it was, Switzerland. Is it a coincidence that both Cold War Super Powers could have their own highly placed intelligence assets both prepare to "defect" their careers and loyalty to their countries based upon such a closely choreographed Oswald timeline? (Suggest you read Walker's final interview for some interesting reading with this suggestion in mind)

Nosenko defects shortly after the assassination (I believe McCloy misses a Warren Commission meeting and is in Switzerland when Nosenko defects by the way) and Nosenko just happens to be the man who has all the information on Oswald in the Soviet Union and is there to reassure the world that Oswald did not in any way work for the Soviets. In the parallel US example, Oswald assassinates the president and Walker provides information of Oswald's previous attempt on his own life, deflecting any examination of a connection between Oswald, Walker and US Intelligence Operations (U-2 Incident????).

If all of this did in fact occur the way that I have suggested Oswald would have to have figured out the connections as well. We find a suggestion that this scenario may in fact be supported by Oswald himself when we examine Oswald's speech at Spring Hill College which focuses on the U-2 Incident and the failure of the Paris Summit....

We also know that James Jesus Angleton never believed Nosenko was what he said he was.....this beginning with Nosenko's first contact with the CIA several years prior to the assassination of JFK. Question to ponder: If Oswald, as Walker would suggest in his final interview, was working for both the Soviets and US Intelligence organizations, but was actually a "Patsy" of both organizations, would both intelligence organization react in the same way and prepare a plausible deniability scenario in the event Oswald did something stupid (like assassinate JFK)? It seems that we can make a plausible case that both the Soviet and American Intelligence organizations took exactly the same actions with people (Walker/Nosenko) that could be linked to the previous actions of Lee Harvey Oswlad.

Angelton would know that Nosenko was not a "bonifide" defector from the beginning because, in my opinion, Angleton knew that Nosenko worked in an agency that would have a connection to Oswald who was attempting to return to the US. Once again you would have such a tightly held operation involving Oswald that only very few would be "in the know." If Angleton was aware of Oswald he would, probably, also know that US Intelligence was having to "Burn" Walker for the same reason. I believe that Angleton's suggestion of Oswald as the "Orchid Man" can fit into this scenario quite well.

Was Angleton another casualty of an operation that involved Oswald that was so big that it could shake the foundations of both Cold War powers?

And, as it seems, the events surrounding the downing of the U-2 and the failure of the Paris Summit were that important (at least they were that important to John J. McCloy)!

Jim Root

I suppose the area that Jim and I share a perspective on Edwin Walker is that he, at least in my opinion, holds several keys to unlocking the last mysteries of the conspiracy that killed John F. Kennedy....

So, what are those keys?

Well, for the sake of my postulation they revolve around various unknowns about Walker's unknown connections to other persons who do factor in the equation.

One would be what Jim has already mentioned, re Whitney Shepardson, Stella Polaris and Grombach.

Two would be deciphering the back and forth between the news stories and the interview Walker did with Munich Deutsche National Zeitung, on Nov. 29, 1963. In which said article stated "Lee Oswald was the person who took the shot at General Walker and he was arrested that night but RFK called Dallas and had him released."

I personally believe this was a lie, and to bolster my assertion, if it was true the onus would have been on Bobby, seemingly to confirm or deny that the allegation was true. Insofar as I can tell, RFK never addressed the issue one way or another, which leads me to believe that he didn't respond because it wasn't true...Remember there was a similar accusation that Oswald and Ruby had been arrested in a incident where they were fighting each other, and again like the US calvary riding to the rescue, someone in Washington supposedly tells the Dallas police to drop it. Even though I believe it also was an untruth, why Jim Garrison didn't try to use this as ersatz leverage in the Clay Shaw trial, is something of a mystery to me. As it could have forced either the Dallas Police or RFK to comment on it...But that is just an opinion of mine..

It is also worth mentioning that aside from statements that were not made in a court of law, one problem with Walker in a major role in the assassination, is that he didn't seem to be somebody with a great deal of money, circa 1963. But that does not mean he couldn't have acted as a facilitator in some capacity. And he was a donor in the Silviera/DRE gatherings, although I believe his donation was more symbolic than anything.

For myself, the German case involving Anton Erdinger has a possible even likely bearing on what was afoot in Germany prior to the assassination. That was a case where there was an allegation that someone had stated that Kennedy had better be careful if he goes down to the south campaigning, and this allegedly happened around the time of JFK's visit to the Bradenburg Gate, Ich Bein Ein Berliner!

Also, the matter of CUSA and Burley, Weissman, and Schmidt, was always an area that I felt could have involved Walker, in fact, I believe if Walker acted as a facilitator, it was in relation to those individuals I just mentioned. I do not believe the Warren Commission wanted to even address that area, and from what I can tell the HSCA was not any more eager to do so either.....

Lastly, there is another area of interest to me, which may, or may not be pertinent. On September 2nd, 1963 Vice President Johnson and his wife made a trip to Scandinavia, visiting the countries of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland, arriving back on approximately Sept. 18, 1963.

See Dallas Morning News - Lady Bird Sums Up Travel Experience - Sept. 20, 1963. They received a ticker-tape parade in Helsinki, according to the article. I am particularly interested in this trip, I am sure it was in an official capacity, of course, but the place and the timing make me curious as to who he may have met with......

On another vein, had Walker been lying re his and his companies resignation attempt in Little Rock wouldn't there be docs from the time that dealt with it?

re visit to Sweden. He visited amongst others the American-Swedish club. From memory, didn't he pass through scandinavia (and then Berlin?) after a vietnam visit?

re Walker, is it known at all any relations between him and Kriminal-Rat(en) Ewald Peters, (Adenauers and Erhards head of security)?

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John

Looking deeper into point two, you state:

"Jim, with regards to the second point there are articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation but also that of his company. It was refused and the order stood."

When I first began to accumulate deeper information on Walker I was puzzled by lack of consistency in his actions albeit Little Rock versus Oxford. One of the keys that I found that SEEMS to suggest an answer is contained in your point of "articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation..." I have never found an article or document from the 1956 period that quotes Walker as tendering his resignation. If you have found such a document I would love to see it!

On the other hand once we have the Pro Blue article (that overlaps Oswald's attempt to return to the US) Walker's actions, then speeches, start to take on a much different tone. It seems to be at this point that we find "article/docs of the time" which seem to support Walker's willingness to have resigned in 1956. But this is four years later.....

While searching the Walker papers we find that early in the Pro Blue controversy Walker is searching for information on "the why" he is being "BURNED." During this period he is reassigned and then he resigns his commission. It is also during this period that Walker takes the plunge into the "right wing" world of politics while he stops searching for answers to why he is being "BURNED." I might suggest that an interesting quirk in American law may hold the answer (and it fits neatly into my scenario). The United States military is not allowed to spy on US Citizens. By resigning his commission Walker becomes free to enter into the "radical right wing" world of the 1960's and does in fact become sort of a poster boy for this movement.

In reality this suggestion actually does fit in well with Walker's career vocation in intelligence/counterintelligence and would be consistent with his accepting any assignment/command that he was given despite the potential personal sacrifice. This scenario also would explain the reinstatement of Walker's retirement benefits at a later date that was done, after being refused within normal channels, by the anonymous hand of some unseen (it appears) benefactor in the highest levels of government.

If true my suggestion would provide cover for two intelligence problems.... It would distance Walker from any government agencies in the event Oswald, upon his return to the US, could implicate Walker in support of Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union and the downing of the U-2 (and failure of the Paris Summit) and it would provide Walker with the necessary right wing credentials to go "undercover" into the right wing movement in America. It would also placate Walker as to why he was being "BURNED" so to speak. Walker, it seems upon a quick review (as in not in depth review) seems to end his search for answers as to why he is being burned and, like a chameleon, resigns and assumes the roll of right wing spokesman (hinting at his previous thoughts of resigning during the Little Rock crisis).

While the plausibility of this can easily be questioned there is another parallel example that occurred in the Soviet Union...the Yuri Nosenko case. In Nosenko's story we find the Soviet Union agreeing to allow Oswald, his wife and child to leave the Soviet Union corresponds to Nosenko making contact with CIA officials in, I believe it was, Switzerland. Is it a coincidence that both Cold War Super Powers could have their own highly placed intelligence assets both prepare to "defect" their careers and loyalty to their countries based upon such a closely choreographed Oswald timeline? (Suggest you read Walker's final interview for some interesting reading with this suggestion in mind)

Nosenko defects shortly after the assassination (I believe McCloy misses a Warren Commission meeting and is in Switzerland when Nosenko defects by the way) and Nosenko just happens to be the man who has all the information on Oswald in the Soviet Union and is there to reassure the world that Oswald did not in any way work for the Soviets. In the parallel US example, Oswald assassinates the president and Walker provides information of Oswald's previous attempt on his own life, deflecting any examination of a connection between Oswald, Walker and US Intelligence Operations (U-2 Incident????).

If all of this did in fact occur the way that I have suggested Oswald would have to have figured out the connections as well. We find a suggestion that this scenario may in fact be supported by Oswald himself when we examine Oswald's speech at Spring Hill College which focuses on the U-2 Incident and the failure of the Paris Summit....

We also know that James Jesus Angleton never believed Nosenko was what he said he was.....this beginning with Nosenko's first contact with the CIA several years prior to the assassination of JFK. Question to ponder: If Oswald, as Walker would suggest in his final interview, was working for both the Soviets and US Intelligence organizations, but was actually a "Patsy" of both organizations, would both intelligence organization react in the same way and prepare a plausible deniability scenario in the event Oswald did something stupid (like assassinate JFK)? It seems that we can make a plausible case that both the Soviet and American Intelligence organizations took exactly the same actions with people (Walker/Nosenko) that could be linked to the previous actions of Lee Harvey Oswlad.

Angelton would know that Nosenko was not a "bonifide" defector from the beginning because, in my opinion, Angleton knew that Nosenko worked in an agency that would have a connection to Oswald who was attempting to return to the US. Once again you would have such a tightly held operation involving Oswald that only very few would be "in the know." If Angleton was aware of Oswald he would, probably, also know that US Intelligence was having to "Burn" Walker for the same reason. I believe that Angleton's suggestion of Oswald as the "Orchid Man" can fit into this scenario quite well.

Was Angleton another casualty of an operation that involved Oswald that was so big that it could shake the foundations of both Cold War powers?

And, as it seems, the events surrounding the downing of the U-2 and the failure of the Paris Summit were that important (at least they were that important to John J. McCloy)!

Jim Root

I suppose the area that Jim and I share a perspective on Edwin Walker is that he, at least in my opinion, holds several keys to unlocking the last mysteries of the conspiracy that killed John F. Kennedy....

So, what are those keys?

Well, for the sake of my postulation they revolve around various unknowns about Walker's unknown connections to other persons who do factor in the equation.

One would be what Jim has already mentioned, re Whitney Shepardson, Stella Polaris and Grombach.

Two would be deciphering the back and forth between the news stories and the interview Walker did with Munich Deutsche National Zeitung, on Nov. 29, 1963. In which said article stated "Lee Oswald was the person who took the shot at General Walker and he was arrested that night but RFK called Dallas and had him released."

I personally believe this was a lie, and to bolster my assertion, if it was true the onus would have been on Bobby, seemingly to confirm or deny that the allegation was true. Insofar as I can tell, RFK never addressed the issue one way or another, which leads me to believe that he didn't respond because it wasn't true...Remember there was a similar accusation that Oswald and Ruby had been arrested in a incident where they were fighting each other, and again like the US calvary riding to the rescue, someone in Washington supposedly tells the Dallas police to drop it. Even though I believe it also was an untruth, why Jim Garrison didn't try to use this as ersatz leverage in the Clay Shaw trial, is something of a mystery to me. As it could have forced either the Dallas Police or RFK to comment on it...But that is just an opinion of mine..

It is also worth mentioning that aside from statements that were not made in a court of law, one problem with Walker in a major role in the assassination, is that he didn't seem to be somebody with a great deal of money, circa 1963. But that does not mean he couldn't have acted as a facilitator in some capacity. And he was a donor in the Silviera/DRE gatherings, although I believe his donation was more symbolic than anything.

For myself, the German case involving Anton Erdinger has a possible even likely bearing on what was afoot in Germany prior to the assassination. That was a case where there was an allegation that someone had stated that Kennedy had better be careful if he goes down to the south campaigning, and this allegedly happened around the time of JFK's visit to the Bradenburg Gate, Ich Bein Ein Berliner!

Also, the matter of CUSA and Burley, Weissman, and Schmidt, was always an area that I felt could have involved Walker, in fact, I believe if Walker acted as a facilitator, it was in relation to those individuals I just mentioned. I do not believe the Warren Commission wanted to even address that area, and from what I can tell the HSCA was not any more eager to do so either.....

Lastly, there is another area of interest to me, which may, or may not be pertinent. On September 2nd, 1963 Vice President Johnson and his wife made a trip to Scandinavia, visiting the countries of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland, arriving back on approximately Sept. 18, 1963.

See Dallas Morning News - Lady Bird Sums Up Travel Experience - Sept. 20, 1963. They received a ticker-tape parade in Helsinki, according to the article. I am particularly interested in this trip, I am sure it was in an official capacity, of course, but the place and the timing make me curious as to who he may have met with......

On another vein, had Walker been lying re his and his companies resignation attempt in Little Rock wouldn't there be docs from the time that dealt with it?

re visit to Sweden. He visited amongst others the American-Swedish club. From memory, didn't he pass through scandinavia (and then Berlin?) after a vietnam visit?

re Walker, is it known at all any relations between him and Kriminal-Rat(en) Ewald Peters, (Adenauers and Erhards head of security)?

I would like to get back to the LBJ trip to Scandinavia for a minute, I am not stating that it has conspiratorial overtones, but I am stating that it is of interest to me.

And I was able to find more information about the trip. Specifically, in JFK's dictabelt recordings [gosh, that sounds weird] of his administration, he [Pres. Kennedy] has the following conversation with an unnamed person [possibly last name Bankston]

Here is the text of the conversation and the URL

Unidentified individual: “Ah, the Vice President wants very much to go to Scandinavia in the fall. Now we have an America’s Day Celebration in Finland on September 6th and 7th where it would be entirely appropriate for him to be there, and then come back through Norway and Denmark, do you see any objection to that?

JFK: No. somebody told me, I don’t know who it was I was talking to, about Finland, said something about Bobby’s supposed to go to go there?

Unidentified individual: Well I talked to Bobby about it and he had talked to the Vice-President about it, and that part of it is all cleared away.

JFK: Well that’s fine.

http://webstorage4.mcpa.virginia.edu/jfk/a...k_dict_19a1.mp3

Interesting....

Another item I would like to mention is regarding a book which is essential in researching the dynamics of the relationships and history regarding General Walker and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Power at the Pentagon

By Jack Raymond

Published by Harper & Row, 1964

Original from the University of Michigan

Digitized Nov 3, 2006

363 pages

http://books.google.com/books?id=Or8dAAAAM...p;q=&pgis=1

Key words and phrases

Pentagon, Martin Company, World War II, Secretary of Defense, Maxwell D, Soviet Union, Pearl Harbor, Douglas MacArthur, Viet Cong, military-industrial complex, nuclear war, cold war, civil defense, Korean War, nuclear weapons, White House, Malin Craig, Secretary of War, Morris Janowitz, Stimson

Edited by Robert Howard
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  • 9 months later...
John

Looking deeper into point two, you state:

"Jim, with regards to the second point there are articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation but also that of his company. It was refused and the order stood."

When I first began to accumulate deeper information on Walker I was puzzled by lack of consistency in his actions albeit Little Rock versus Oxford. One of the keys that I found that SEEMS to suggest an answer is contained in your point of "articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation..." I have never found an article or document from the 1956 period that quotes Walker as tendering his resignation. If you have found such a document I would love to see it!

On the other hand once we have the Pro Blue article (that overlaps Oswald's attempt to return to the US) Walker's actions, then speeches, start to take on a much different tone. It seems to be at this point that we find "article/docs of the time" which seem to support Walker's willingness to have resigned in 1956. But this is four years later.....

While searching the Walker papers we find that early in the Pro Blue controversy Walker is searching for information on "the why" he is being "BURNED." During this period he is reassigned and then he resigns his commission. It is also during this period that Walker takes the plunge into the "right wing" world of politics while he stops searching for answers to why he is being "BURNED." I might suggest that an interesting quirk in American law may hold the answer (and it fits neatly into my scenario). The United States military is not allowed to spy on US Citizens. By resigning his commission Walker becomes free to enter into the "radical right wing" world of the 1960's and does in fact become sort of a poster boy for this movement.

In reality this suggestion actually does fit in well with Walker's career vocation in intelligence/counterintelligence and would be consistent with his accepting any assignment/command that he was given despite the potential personal sacrifice. This scenario also would explain the reinstatement of Walker's retirement benefits at a later date that was done, after being refused within normal channels, by the anonymous hand of some unseen (it appears) benefactor in the highest levels of government.

If true my suggestion would provide cover for two intelligence problems.... It would distance Walker from any government agencies in the event Oswald, upon his return to the US, could implicate Walker in support of Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union and the downing of the U-2 (and failure of the Paris Summit) and it would provide Walker with the necessary right wing credentials to go "undercover" into the right wing movement in America. It would also placate Walker as to why he was being "BURNED" so to speak. Walker, it seems upon a quick review (as in not in depth review) seems to end his search for answers as to why he is being burned and, like a chameleon, resigns and assumes the roll of right wing spokesman (hinting at his previous thoughts of resigning during the Little Rock crisis).

While the plausibility of this can easily be questioned there is another parallel example that occurred in the Soviet Union...the Yuri Nosenko case. In Nosenko's story we find the Soviet Union agreeing to allow Oswald, his wife and child to leave the Soviet Union corresponds to Nosenko making contact with CIA officials in, I believe it was, Switzerland. Is it a coincidence that both Cold War Super Powers could have their own highly placed intelligence assets both prepare to "defect" their careers and loyalty to their countries based upon such a closely choreographed Oswald timeline? (Suggest you read Walker's final interview for some interesting reading with this suggestion in mind)

Nosenko defects shortly after the assassination (I believe McCloy misses a Warren Commission meeting and is in Switzerland when Nosenko defects by the way) and Nosenko just happens to be the man who has all the information on Oswald in the Soviet Union and is there to reassure the world that Oswald did not in any way work for the Soviets. In the parallel US example, Oswald assassinates the president and Walker provides information of Oswald's previous attempt on his own life, deflecting any examination of a connection between Oswald, Walker and US Intelligence Operations (U-2 Incident????).

If all of this did in fact occur the way that I have suggested Oswald would have to have figured out the connections as well. We find a suggestion that this scenario may in fact be supported by Oswald himself when we examine Oswald's speech at Spring Hill College which focuses on the U-2 Incident and the failure of the Paris Summit....

We also know that James Jesus Angleton never believed Nosenko was what he said he was.....this beginning with Nosenko's first contact with the CIA several years prior to the assassination of JFK. Question to ponder: If Oswald, as Walker would suggest in his final interview, was working for both the Soviets and US Intelligence organizations, but was actually a "Patsy" of both organizations, would both intelligence organization react in the same way and prepare a plausible deniability scenario in the event Oswald did something stupid (like assassinate JFK)? It seems that we can make a plausible case that both the Soviet and American Intelligence organizations took exactly the same actions with people (Walker/Nosenko) that could be linked to the previous actions of Lee Harvey Oswlad.

Angelton would know that Nosenko was not a "bonifide" defector from the beginning because, in my opinion, Angleton knew that Nosenko worked in an agency that would have a connection to Oswald who was attempting to return to the US. Once again you would have such a tightly held operation involving Oswald that only very few would be "in the know." If Angleton was aware of Oswald he would, probably, also know that US Intelligence was having to "Burn" Walker for the same reason. I believe that Angleton's suggestion of Oswald as the "Orchid Man" can fit into this scenario quite well.

Was Angleton another casualty of an operation that involved Oswald that was so big that it could shake the foundations of both Cold War powers?

And, as it seems, the events surrounding the downing of the U-2 and the failure of the Paris Summit were that important (at least they were that important to John J. McCloy)!

Jim Root

I suppose the area that Jim and I share a perspective on Edwin Walker is that he, at least in my opinion, holds several keys to unlocking the last mysteries of the conspiracy that killed John F. Kennedy....

So, what are those keys?

Well, for the sake of my postulation they revolve around various unknowns about Walker's unknown connections to other persons who do factor in the equation.

One would be what Jim has already mentioned, re Whitney Shepardson, Stella Polaris and Grombach.

Two would be deciphering the back and forth between the news stories and the interview Walker did with Munich Deutsche National Zeitung, on Nov. 29, 1963. In which said article stated "Lee Oswald was the person who took the shot at General Walker and he was arrested that night but RFK called Dallas and had him released."

I personally believe this was a lie, and to bolster my assertion, if it was true the onus would have been on Bobby, seemingly to confirm or deny that the allegation was true. Insofar as I can tell, RFK never addressed the issue one way or another, which leads me to believe that he didn't respond because it wasn't true...Remember there was a similar accusation that Oswald and Ruby had been arrested in a incident where they were fighting each other, and again like the US calvary riding to the rescue, someone in Washington supposedly tells the Dallas police to drop it. Even though I believe it also was an untruth, why Jim Garrison didn't try to use this as ersatz leverage in the Clay Shaw trial, is something of a mystery to me. As it could have forced either the Dallas Police or RFK to comment on it...But that is just an opinion of mine..

It is also worth mentioning that aside from statements that were not made in a court of law, one problem with Walker in a major role in the assassination, is that he didn't seem to be somebody with a great deal of money, circa 1963. But that does not mean he couldn't have acted as a facilitator in some capacity. And he was a donor in the Silviera/DRE gatherings, although I believe his donation was more symbolic than anything.

For myself, the German case involving Anton Erdinger has a possible even likely bearing on what was afoot in Germany prior to the assassination. That was a case where there was an allegation that someone had stated that Kennedy had better be careful if he goes down to the south campaigning, and this allegedly happened around the time of JFK's visit to the Bradenburg Gate, Ich Bein Ein Berliner!

Also, the matter of CUSA and Burley, Weissman, and Schmidt, was always an area that I felt could have involved Walker, in fact, I believe if Walker acted as a facilitator, it was in relation to those individuals I just mentioned. I do not believe the Warren Commission wanted to even address that area, and from what I can tell the HSCA was not any more eager to do so either.....

Lastly, there is another area of interest to me, which may, or may not be pertinent. On September 2nd, 1963 Vice President Johnson and his wife made a trip to Scandinavia, visiting the countries of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland, arriving back on approximately Sept. 18, 1963.

See Dallas Morning News - Lady Bird Sums Up Travel Experience - Sept. 20, 1963. They received a ticker-tape parade in Helsinki, according to the article. I am particularly interested in this trip, I am sure it was in an official capacity, of course, but the place and the timing make me curious as to who he may have met with......

On another vein, had Walker been lying re his and his companies resignation attempt in Little Rock wouldn't there be docs from the time that dealt with it?

re visit to Sweden. He visited amongst others the American-Swedish club. From memory, didn't he pass through scandinavia (and then Berlin?) after a vietnam visit?

re Walker, is it known at all any relations between him and Kriminal-Rat(en) Ewald Peters, (Adenauers and Erhards head of security)?

I would like to get back to the LBJ trip to Scandinavia for a minute, I am not stating that it has conspiratorial overtones, but I am stating that it is of interest to me.

And I was able to find more information about the trip. Specifically, in JFK's dictabelt recordings [gosh, that sounds weird] of his administration, he [Pres. Kennedy] has the following conversation with an unnamed person [possibly last name Bankston]

Here is the text of the conversation and the URL

Unidentified individual: “Ah, the Vice President wants very much to go to Scandinavia in the fall. Now we have an America’s Day Celebration in Finland on September 6th and 7th where it would be entirely appropriate for him to be there, and then come back through Norway and Denmark, do you see any objection to that?

JFK: No. somebody told me, I don’t know who it was I was talking to, about Finland, said something about Bobby’s supposed to go to go there?

Unidentified individual: Well I talked to Bobby about it and he had talked to the Vice-President about it, and that part of it is all cleared away.

JFK: Well that’s fine.

http://webstorage4.mcpa.virginia.edu/jfk/a...k_dict_19a1.mp3

Interesting....

Another item I would like to mention is regarding a book which is essential in researching the dynamics of the relationships and history regarding General Walker and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Power at the Pentagon

By Jack Raymond

Published by Harper & Row, 1964

Original from the University of Michigan

Digitized Nov 3, 2006

363 pages

http://books.google.com/books?id=Or8dAAAAM...p;q=&pgis=1

Key words and phrases

Pentagon, Martin Company, World War II, Secretary of Defense, Maxwell D, Soviet Union, Pearl Harbor, Douglas MacArthur, Viet Cong, military-industrial complex, nuclear war, cold war, civil defense, Korean War, nuclear weapons, White House, Malin Craig, Secretary of War, Morris Janowitz, Stimson

Placing the following information on this thread is not meant to imply a literal connection, but more of a peripheral item to consider. I pretty much live in the declassified files these days. And on that note, various intelligence operations that were operative during the Kennedy Administration are not as mysterious to me as to some people.

In considering a blur of topics such as the Karelian-Finn Movement, Whitney Shepardson, Harrod Miller, and the world of pre-assassination intelligence as detailed by Jim Root and George Michael Evica....the following may be found to be interesting.....

There is one acronym that is in the ZR category but is not ZRRIFLE, it is uncertain to me whether ZRPENNY is an operative or otherwise, due to the newness of the discovery, but there are several declassified documents that make reference to ZRPENNY.

One reason to wonder if ZRPENNY is potentially a reference to the World Youth Festivals in general, speculatively speaking is the following title at NARA

CABLE: PREFER DEFECTION HELS DURING ZRPENNY. OUT OF CONCERN FOR SUBJECTS

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

note the references to STOC, HELS and COPE ie Stockholm, Helsinki and Copenhagen

One listed below is.......

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm)/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 50: Alpizar - Cubela)/

NARA Record Number: 104-10215-10077

CABLE RE: WE NOW HAVE NAMES AND BIRTH DATES 300 CUBAN

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...do?docId=108437

Apparently the bulk of these documents are from 1962; one above is dated 7/25/62....

continuing from where the title leaves off........Festival delegates who applied for Finnish visas......

C/S Comments: REQ WAVE PROVIDE NAMES CUBAN PARTICIPANTS WORLD YOUTH FESTIVAL

acronyms GYROSE BGACTRESS ZRPENNY

For the active researcher it is common knowledge that Youth Festivals back in the Kennedy Era should be a a hot button topic, although in more of a great game capacity, than in a conspiratorial context, but that is a generalization.......

Still, it always comes back to John Hurt.....

John Hurt was hired on May 30, 1930 as a "cryptanalyst aide," in reality, a Japanese linguist. Since he knew French as well, Hurt spent time translating classic French-language texts on cryptology for SIS use.

John Hurt had never studied Japanese formally, nor had he lived in Japan -- he had learned the language from a college roommate! Yet, he amazed those who had studied the language in-country with his detailed knowledge of it.

Hurt was the epitome of the absent-minded professor. Solomon Kullback, one of the leading cryptanalyts of the time, remembered him. "There are more stories about John Hurt than you can shake a stick at. There is no question that he had a genius or flair for languages. He was always interested in picking up new words in any language and using them. Unfortunately, sometimes he made a mistake. I think he learned two words in Russian, one which means "good-bye" and one which means "thank you," and got them confused. He met somebody who had a Russian background and they were talking, when they were supposed to leave, instead of saying "thank you," John Hurt says "good-bye." The Russian got a little indignant and went off in a huff....

"He had a theory that when you crossed the street, you just ignored traffic rules and you don't worry about cars. You stared at them, just as you would at an animal. Unfortunately, one time he was nudged, knocked down by a taxicab, and the taxicab man got out, all upset, and runs over to him and says, "Are you hurt?" John gets up and brushes himself off and says, "Yes, John B." and walked off...."

In 1933, teamed with Kullback, Hurt began to work on actual Japanese messages. The traffic was old, not intended for current use, but Hurt spent several years working with different cryptanalysts on old Japanese message texts. This exercise gave him a good grasp of diplomatic-style grammar and vocabulary.

The first current Japanese message translated by Hurt and forwarded to the military for use was in 1935. It dealt with a proposal for a joint Japanese-Mexican fishing operation that might have been a cover for espionage.

Hurt, and later other Japanese linguists, would dictate their translations to a series of stenographers.

While some other SIS personnel dabbled in the Japanese language, John Hurt remained the only full-time translator until mid-1937. As the crisis deepened between the U.S. and Japan, Hurt began to feel extreme pressure in keeping up with the translations, and a second civilian translator was hired. (After World War II, Hurt, who had had bouts of ill health, was placed on indefinite sick leave, which lasted over two years).

One of the unfortunate continuities of Communications Intelligence work has been the woeful lack of qualified linguists. In most crises, including the world war, there were not enough of them at the outset and many did not have the training or experience to be effective COMINT producers.

Nevertheless, just as they acquired brilliant cryptanalysts, the U.S. COMINT organizations hired or trained excellent Japanese linguists in the prewar period, and, as their numbers increased after Pearl Harbor, trained them for wartime service

Edited by Robert Howard
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Perhaps tangential but it might be worth noting the C.D. Jackson has a CIA connection to the World Youth Festivals, in that he prepped a young Gloria Steinem for the CIA's use of the National Students Assoc- Independent Service for Information to counter Communist propaganda at the Vienna Youth Festival

ZRPENNY as a designation that is tied to the World Youth Festival, which was a project that C.D. Jackson worked on fairly extensively, might be an interesting facet given C.D. Jackson's history and his later involvement with the Zapruder film. (see The Mighty Wurlitzer pp. 142-144) by Hugh Wilford

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John

Looking deeper into point two, you state:

"Jim, with regards to the second point there are articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation but also that of his company. It was refused and the order stood."

When I first began to accumulate deeper information on Walker I was puzzled by lack of consistency in his actions albeit Little Rock versus Oxford. One of the keys that I found that SEEMS to suggest an answer is contained in your point of "articles/docs of the time having Walker quoted as saying he not only tendered his resignation..." I have never found an article or document from the 1956 period that quotes Walker as tendering his resignation. If you have found such a document I would love to see it!

On the other hand once we have the Pro Blue article (that overlaps Oswald's attempt to return to the US) Walker's actions, then speeches, start to take on a much different tone. It seems to be at this point that we find "article/docs of the time" which seem to support Walker's willingness to have resigned in 1956. But this is four years later.....

While searching the Walker papers we find that early in the Pro Blue controversy Walker is searching for information on "the why" he is being "BURNED." During this period he is reassigned and then he resigns his commission. It is also during this period that Walker takes the plunge into the "right wing" world of politics while he stops searching for answers to why he is being "BURNED." I might suggest that an interesting quirk in American law may hold the answer (and it fits neatly into my scenario). The United States military is not allowed to spy on US Citizens. By resigning his commission Walker becomes free to enter into the "radical right wing" world of the 1960's and does in fact become sort of a poster boy for this movement.

In reality this suggestion actually does fit in well with Walker's career vocation in intelligence/counterintelligence and would be consistent with his accepting any assignment/command that he was given despite the potential personal sacrifice. This scenario also would explain the reinstatement of Walker's retirement benefits at a later date that was done, after being refused within normal channels, by the anonymous hand of some unseen (it appears) benefactor in the highest levels of government.

If true my suggestion would provide cover for two intelligence problems.... It would distance Walker from any government agencies in the event Oswald, upon his return to the US, could implicate Walker in support of Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union and the downing of the U-2 (and failure of the Paris Summit) and it would provide Walker with the necessary right wing credentials to go "undercover" into the right wing movement in America. It would also placate Walker as to why he was being "BURNED" so to speak. Walker, it seems upon a quick review (as in not in depth review) seems to end his search for answers as to why he is being burned and, like a chameleon, resigns and assumes the roll of right wing spokesman (hinting at his previous thoughts of resigning during the Little Rock crisis).

While the plausibility of this can easily be questioned there is another parallel example that occurred in the Soviet Union...the Yuri Nosenko case. In Nosenko's story we find the Soviet Union agreeing to allow Oswald, his wife and child to leave the Soviet Union corresponds to Nosenko making contact with CIA officials in, I believe it was, Switzerland. Is it a coincidence that both Cold War Super Powers could have their own highly placed intelligence assets both prepare to "defect" their careers and loyalty to their countries based upon such a closely choreographed Oswald timeline? (Suggest you read Walker's final interview for some interesting reading with this suggestion in mind)

Nosenko defects shortly after the assassination (I believe McCloy misses a Warren Commission meeting and is in Switzerland when Nosenko defects by the way) and Nosenko just happens to be the man who has all the information on Oswald in the Soviet Union and is there to reassure the world that Oswald did not in any way work for the Soviets. In the parallel US example, Oswald assassinates the president and Walker provides information of Oswald's previous attempt on his own life, deflecting any examination of a connection between Oswald, Walker and US Intelligence Operations (U-2 Incident????).

If all of this did in fact occur the way that I have suggested Oswald would have to have figured out the connections as well. We find a suggestion that this scenario may in fact be supported by Oswald himself when we examine Oswald's speech at Spring Hill College which focuses on the U-2 Incident and the failure of the Paris Summit....

We also know that James Jesus Angleton never believed Nosenko was what he said he was.....this beginning with Nosenko's first contact with the CIA several years prior to the assassination of JFK. Question to ponder: If Oswald, as Walker would suggest in his final interview, was working for both the Soviets and US Intelligence organizations, but was actually a "Patsy" of both organizations, would both intelligence organization react in the same way and prepare a plausible deniability scenario in the event Oswald did something stupid (like assassinate JFK)? It seems that we can make a plausible case that both the Soviet and American Intelligence organizations took exactly the same actions with people (Walker/Nosenko) that could be linked to the previous actions of Lee Harvey Oswlad.

Angelton would know that Nosenko was not a "bonifide" defector from the beginning because, in my opinion, Angleton knew that Nosenko worked in an agency that would have a connection to Oswald who was attempting to return to the US. Once again you would have such a tightly held operation involving Oswald that only very few would be "in the know." If Angleton was aware of Oswald he would, probably, also know that US Intelligence was having to "Burn" Walker for the same reason. I believe that Angleton's suggestion of Oswald as the "Orchid Man" can fit into this scenario quite well.

Was Angleton another casualty of an operation that involved Oswald that was so big that it could shake the foundations of both Cold War powers?

And, as it seems, the events surrounding the downing of the U-2 and the failure of the Paris Summit were that important (at least they were that important to John J. McCloy)!

Jim Root

I suppose the area that Jim and I share a perspective on Edwin Walker is that he, at least in my opinion, holds several keys to unlocking the last mysteries of the conspiracy that killed John F. Kennedy....

So, what are those keys?

Well, for the sake of my postulation they revolve around various unknowns about Walker's unknown connections to other persons who do factor in the equation.

One would be what Jim has already mentioned, re Whitney Shepardson, Stella Polaris and Grombach.

Two would be deciphering the back and forth between the news stories and the interview Walker did with Munich Deutsche National Zeitung, on Nov. 29, 1963. In which said article stated "Lee Oswald was the person who took the shot at General Walker and he was arrested that night but RFK called Dallas and had him released."

I personally believe this was a lie, and to bolster my assertion, if it was true the onus would have been on Bobby, seemingly to confirm or deny that the allegation was true. Insofar as I can tell, RFK never addressed the issue one way or another, which leads me to believe that he didn't respond because it wasn't true...Remember there was a similar accusation that Oswald and Ruby had been arrested in a incident where they were fighting each other, and again like the US calvary riding to the rescue, someone in Washington supposedly tells the Dallas police to drop it. Even though I believe it also was an untruth, why Jim Garrison didn't try to use this as ersatz leverage in the Clay Shaw trial, is something of a mystery to me. As it could have forced either the Dallas Police or RFK to comment on it...But that is just an opinion of mine..

It is also worth mentioning that aside from statements that were not made in a court of law, one problem with Walker in a major role in the assassination, is that he didn't seem to be somebody with a great deal of money, circa 1963. But that does not mean he couldn't have acted as a facilitator in some capacity. And he was a donor in the Silviera/DRE gatherings, although I believe his donation was more symbolic than anything.

For myself, the German case involving Anton Erdinger has a possible even likely bearing on what was afoot in Germany prior to the assassination. That was a case where there was an allegation that someone had stated that Kennedy had better be careful if he goes down to the south campaigning, and this allegedly happened around the time of JFK's visit to the Bradenburg Gate, Ich Bein Ein Berliner!

Also, the matter of CUSA and Burley, Weissman, and Schmidt, was always an area that I felt could have involved Walker, in fact, I believe if Walker acted as a facilitator, it was in relation to those individuals I just mentioned. I do not believe the Warren Commission wanted to even address that area, and from what I can tell the HSCA was not any more eager to do so either.....

Lastly, there is another area of interest to me, which may, or may not be pertinent. On September 2nd, 1963 Vice President Johnson and his wife made a trip to Scandinavia, visiting the countries of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland, arriving back on approximately Sept. 18, 1963.

See Dallas Morning News - Lady Bird Sums Up Travel Experience - Sept. 20, 1963. They received a ticker-tape parade in Helsinki, according to the article. I am particularly interested in this trip, I am sure it was in an official capacity, of course, but the place and the timing make me curious as to who he may have met with......

On another vein, had Walker been lying re his and his companies resignation attempt in Little Rock wouldn't there be docs from the time that dealt with it?

re visit to Sweden. He visited amongst others the American-Swedish club. From memory, didn't he pass through scandinavia (and then Berlin?) after a vietnam visit?

re Walker, is it known at all any relations between him and Kriminal-Rat(en) Ewald Peters, (Adenauers and Erhards head of security)?

I would like to get back to the LBJ trip to Scandinavia for a minute, I am not stating that it has conspiratorial overtones, but I am stating that it is of interest to me.

And I was able to find more information about the trip. Specifically, in JFK's dictabelt recordings [gosh, that sounds weird] of his administration, he [Pres. Kennedy] has the following conversation with an unnamed person [possibly last name Bankston]

Here is the text of the conversation and the URL

Unidentified individual: “Ah, the Vice President wants very much to go to Scandinavia in the fall. Now we have an America’s Day Celebration in Finland on September 6th and 7th where it would be entirely appropriate for him to be there, and then come back through Norway and Denmark, do you see any objection to that?

JFK: No. somebody told me, I don’t know who it was I was talking to, about Finland, said something about Bobby’s supposed to go to go there?

Unidentified individual: Well I talked to Bobby about it and he had talked to the Vice-President about it, and that part of it is all cleared away.

JFK: Well that’s fine.

http://webstorage4.mcpa.virginia.edu/jfk/a...k_dict_19a1.mp3

Interesting....

Another item I would like to mention is regarding a book which is essential in researching the dynamics of the relationships and history regarding General Walker and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Power at the Pentagon

By Jack Raymond

Published by Harper & Row, 1964

Original from the University of Michigan

Digitized Nov 3, 2006

363 pages

http://books.google.com/books?id=Or8dAAAAM...p;q=&pgis=1

Key words and phrases

Pentagon, Martin Company, World War II, Secretary of Defense, Maxwell D, Soviet Union, Pearl Harbor, Douglas MacArthur, Viet Cong, military-industrial complex, nuclear war, cold war, civil defense, Korean War, nuclear weapons, White House, Malin Craig, Secretary of War, Morris Janowitz, Stimson

Placing the following information on this thread is not meant to imply a literal connection, but more of a peripheral item to consider. I pretty much live in the declassified files these days. And on that note, various intelligence operations that were operative during the Kennedy Administration are not as mysterious to me as to some people.

In considering a blur of topics such as the Karelian-Finn Movement, Whitney Shepardson, Harrod Miller, and the world of pre-assassination intelligence as detailed by Jim Root and George Michael Evica....the following may be found to be interesting.....

There is one acronym that is in the ZR category but is not ZRRIFLE, it is uncertain to me whether ZRPENNY is an operative or otherwise, due to the newness of the discovery, but there are several declassified documents that make reference to ZRPENNY.

One reason to wonder if ZRPENNY is potentially a reference to the World Youth Festivals in general, speculatively speaking is the following title at NARA

CABLE: PREFER DEFECTION HELS DURING ZRPENNY. OUT OF CONCERN FOR SUBJECTS

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

note the references to STOC, HELS and COPE ie Stockholm, Helsinki and Copenhagen

One listed below is.......

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm)/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 50: Alpizar - Cubela)/

NARA Record Number: 104-10215-10077

CABLE RE: WE NOW HAVE NAMES AND BIRTH DATES 300 CUBAN

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...do?docId=108437

Apparently the bulk of these documents are from 1962; one above is dated 7/25/62....

continuing from where the title leaves off........Festival delegates who applied for Finnish visas......

C/S Comments: REQ WAVE PROVIDE NAMES CUBAN PARTICIPANTS WORLD YOUTH FESTIVAL

acronyms GYROSE BGACTRESS ZRPENNY

For the active researcher it is common knowledge that Youth Festivals back in the Kennedy Era should be a a hot button topic, although in more of a great game capacity, than in a conspiratorial context, but that is a generalization.......

Still, it always comes back to John Hurt.....

John Hurt was hired on May 30, 1930 as a "cryptanalyst aide," in reality, a Japanese linguist. Since he knew French as well, Hurt spent time translating classic French-language texts on cryptology for SIS use.

John Hurt had never studied Japanese formally, nor had he lived in Japan -- he had learned the language from a college roommate! Yet, he amazed those who had studied the language in-country with his detailed knowledge of it.

Hurt was the epitome of the absent-minded professor. Solomon Kullback, one of the leading cryptanalyts of the time, remembered him. "There are more stories about John Hurt than you can shake a stick at. There is no question that he had a genius or flair for languages. He was always interested in picking up new words in any language and using them. Unfortunately, sometimes he made a mistake. I think he learned two words in Russian, one which means "good-bye" and one which means "thank you," and got them confused. He met somebody who had a Russian background and they were talking, when they were supposed to leave, instead of saying "thank you," John Hurt says "good-bye." The Russian got a little indignant and went off in a huff....

"He had a theory that when you crossed the street, you just ignored traffic rules and you don't worry about cars. You stared at them, just as you would at an animal. Unfortunately, one time he was nudged, knocked down by a taxicab, and the taxicab man got out, all upset, and runs over to him and says, "Are you hurt?" John gets up and brushes himself off and says, "Yes, John B." and walked off...."

In 1933, teamed with Kullback, Hurt began to work on actual Japanese messages. The traffic was old, not intended for current use, but Hurt spent several years working with different cryptanalysts on old Japanese message texts. This exercise gave him a good grasp of diplomatic-style grammar and vocabulary.

The first current Japanese message translated by Hurt and forwarded to the military for use was in 1935. It dealt with a proposal for a joint Japanese-Mexican fishing operation that might have been a cover for espionage.

Hurt, and later other Japanese linguists, would dictate their translations to a series of stenographers.

While some other SIS personnel dabbled in the Japanese language, John Hurt remained the only full-time translator until mid-1937. As the crisis deepened between the U.S. and Japan, Hurt began to feel extreme pressure in keeping up with the translations, and a second civilian translator was hired. (After World War II, Hurt, who had had bouts of ill health, was placed on indefinite sick leave, which lasted over two years).

One of the unfortunate continuities of Communications Intelligence work has been the woeful lack of qualified linguists. In most crises, including the world war, there were not enough of them at the outset and many did not have the training or experience to be effective COMINT producers.

Nevertheless, just as they acquired brilliant cryptanalysts, the U.S. COMINT organizations hired or trained excellent Japanese linguists in the prewar period, and, as their numbers increased after Pearl Harbor, trained them for wartime service

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