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Japanese linguist John Hurt


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Although it is not by no means the final word on the elusive John B. Hurt connection to Lee Harvey Oswald, there is something rather unique as far as the Bundy family; McGeorge, William, parents Harvey and Kay and John B Hurt, codebreaker extraordinaire.

In Kai Bird's definitive book on the Bundy family, The Color of Truth

one will find the following passage.....page 72

Intercept intelligence, also known as signal intelligence, shortly became a Bundy family vocation. While Harvey sat in the War Department reading the highly classified final product, his wife and sons became involved in the arcane business of cryptology. toiling away at deciphering the radio codes of various foreign powers. Oddly enough, the first Bundy to become a cryptologist was Kay. In 1941 at the age of fifty-one, with all five children on their own, Kay thought she ought to get a job.

By happenstance, an old friend and neighbor Lydia Chapin Kirk, wife of Admiral Alan Kirk had also moved to Washington and was organizing a group of wives to volunteer their time for the navy. Years earlier Kay had chaperoned Lydia's dates with Kirk.

At Lydia's urging, Kay agreed to take a course with the U.S. Navy on open codes, meaning she was taught to discern whether there was a hidden message in plain-text letters or telegrams sent abroad. "I smoked like a chimney," Kay recalled, "and I got absolutely absorbed in codebreaking." Kay worked initially for Naval intelligence out of Arlington Hall, and later switched to code-breaking for the army."

In Samuel Snyder's A Translator Extraordinaire, see translator.pdf, his detailed summary of John B Hurt's World War II

experience as the ultimate Japanese cryptanalyst, he mentions that John Hurt was also stationed at Arlington Hall during World War II.

see excerpt

John was one among that rare breed of translator able to convey in English the style and flavor of the original.

At times his transcriber would be treated to John's falsetto sing-song, and even occasionally poetic English

to faithfully emulate the personal style of the diplomatic sender. This also applied when John made translations

from Japanese or French books or documents. There was the time in 1944 when Sam Hall was patrolling an

area in "B" building at Arlington Hall Station for security check. It was about 11 o'clock at night and Sam heard

a loud voice coming from behind a partition, as of someone making a speech. The door was closed so Sam

stood on a chair and peeked over the top of the partition. There was John Hurt, alone, pacing up and down with

a book in his hand, and in the style of an orator, delivering aloud his English translation, with hardly a

pause.

Although John J McCloy's connections to MAGIC have been focused on, as they should be,

Kay Bundy being stationed at Arlington Hall and not knowing of John B. Hurt, would not be unlike

residing at Hogwarts and not knowing who was Harry Potter.

And if Abraham Bolden was correct in asserting that there was a clamor on the weekend of JFK's

assassination about John Hurt, it is definitely worth knowing about the Arlington Hall connection.

If there are any like minded individuals regarding the Bundy's and cryptologic connections

the following might be if interest

Cryptologia April 1987 Some of My Wartime Experiences -W.P. Bundy

1087 Great Road, Princeton, NJ 08540 USA

Cryptologia, Vol. XI, Number 2, April 1987, pp. 65-76

http://www.tandfonli...1861811#preview

William P. Bundy

OVERVIEW

ADDRESS: 1087 Great Road, Princeton NJ 08540 USA.

ABSTRACT: The head of the American contingent at Britain's Government Code and Cypher School (GC&CS) at Bletchley during World War II tells how he got into cryptology and about his social and administrative experiences as commanding officer of the 6813 th Detachment.

KEYWORDS: Bundy, Bletchley, Government Code and Cypher School, GC&CS, 6813 th Detachment.

[This is the edited transcript of a speech give by William P. Bundy at the dinner of the annual convention of the American Cryptogram Association in Union, New Jersey, on August 21, 1982.

None of his biographies as in Who's Who in America specify what he was doing in the army. His talk cleared up the mystery.]

There really isn't that much mystery about what I was doing during the war. That is what I am going to talk about, if you can take it at this hour. Namely a reminiscence on being the nominal, and I do mean very much the nominal, commander of the American Signal Corps Detachment, the cryptanalytical detachment that worked with the British at Bletchley on the Enigma and some other systems but mostly the Enigma problem. We had what I would still regard as a unique experiment in international living. An experiment in thinking together, as well as a dramatic exposure to the greatest overall achievement in terms of practical effects, certainly in cryptanalytic history. I would think that a safe statement.........

Although the following document in question appears to be a lead that didn't pan out, nonetheless it is an allegation that Lee Harvey Oswald was in Wytheville, Virginia nine days before the assassination of President Kennedy, the account involves a Mr. Curtis Puckett, who is the owner of a Greyhound Cafeteria and operator of the local Greyhound Bus terminal, as well as the local representative of the Salvation Army, and Bob Puckett, his brother. Mrs. Frank Nelms, also of the Salvation Army had stated on a radio program, [hosted by Ed Zuber of WYVE] that she had possibly seen Lee Oswald

approximately two weeks ago, this was on November 25, 1963.

http://www.maryferre...3&relPageId=257

The person in question allegedly turned out to be "Henry Richards," [all italics mine] who was given lunch, and busfare to Princeton, West Virginia, ostensibly his hometown.

These Warren Commission stories, [this is also in CD 7 Gemberling Report pp 427-430] are always problematic, because you have no idea if these accounts are true, hokkum or a combination of the two, and while Mrs. Nelms is characterized as having poor eyesight, it is also compelling that, according to Mr. Bob Puckett that ,......Curtis did recall that three or four months previously with another "assistance call," Mrs. Nelms had sent a young couple down to the bus terminal, the man being dressed in some type of military uniform with stripes on the sleeve.

He stated that Curtis recalled that this man purchased coffee and doughnuts for the woman, apparently his wife who was "unable to speak English," and that this person had a "small baby as well as a youngster about three years old." He recalled also that this man left the bus terminal returned a short time later, and when Curtis Puckett approached him and wanted to know if he could be of assistance, this young military person said no, his "problem had been solved."

Regarding the date of this incident Puckett states it was three or four months ago, while Mrs. Nelms insists, it was on November 13, 1963, the ticket was located for Richards, and it was dated November 13, 1963. Hence, since Oswald, according to the FBI, in Dallas on November 13, 1963, this allegation was pretty much summarily dismissed.

In the account in CD 7 "the man" is quoted as saying "he could get to Dallas once he got to Princeton."

The reason, at least in my mind, this could be more than "just another alleged Oswald sighting," was that

Wytheville, Virginia was where John B Hurt resided growing up, his uncle Shaffer the Congressman was from there and cryptologist Frank Rowlett had lived a few counties away to the west.

See

The American Codebreakers - Thomas Parrish pages 39-40

The missionary family that lived next door to John Hurt was surnamed Patton.....

I am truly confident this John B Hurt/Oswald angle will eventually be squared away, just hope it is sooner, rather than later.

I'm following you here Robert, Keep going.

BK

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Might point out that it is probable that Hurt was in France at the time of the assassination. He had retired from the NSA and would reside in New York (I believe) until his death.

If my memory serves me correctly there were two Warren Commission investigators who were looking at the Syliva Odio incident who had suggested (just before their funding was cut) the possibility that if the Odio incident were real the two men with Oswald may have provided him with a contact number to use if Oswald were to get into trouble.

Questions:

Why would they persue such an idea? Did they know about the Raleigh call?

Why did this lead go nowhere?

For myself there is no indication that John B. Hurt would have been anywhere near Raleigh, N. C. at the time of the assassination (as stated above he was probably in France), but a call to a cut out with a simple message "John Hurt" may have sent shock waves through the upper echelons of the intelligence community! Remember that to this day the work of John B. Hurt from 1945 - 1963 is still classified. I will suggest that if the accussed assassin of the President of the United States had this name and the number of a known CIA cut out in his possession, the consequences for US Intelligence and the United States Government would be dire to say the least! The need to eliminate Oswald would become paramount to the security of the United States and especially to those that may have orchestrated the assassination.

This is central to my theory of the assassination.....more importantly the man who knew of, had access to and knowledge of the work of John B. Hurt was John J. McCloy. Coincidence? I think not!

Toss in the fact that Hurt associates Frank Rowlett and Meredith Gardner do the NSA investigation of Oswald for the Warren Commission and you add to the "coincidences" surrounding this person/event.

Known CIA person in Raleign, N. C., Calvin Bryce Hoover who during WWII was working with Secrete Intelligence, was in June of 1959 working and meeting with Richard Helms on an off track mission that would be going through Helsinki, Finland in the months to follow.

Hoover, during WWII, gave the go ahead for Operation Stella Polaris that provided a great deal of information about Russian codes at the end of WWII. This mission was launced after John B. Hurt had translated intercepted japanese messages dealing with the movement of Finnish cryptologist near the end of the war. The boat that transferred these men was named Stella Polaris and was sent from Norway to pick the men up. At the end of the war the American in Norway to accept the German surrender and to oversee the transisitional governement in Norway, Col. Edwin Anderson Walker.

Jim Root

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Might point out that it is probable that Hurt was in France at the time of the assassination. He had retired from the NSA and would reside in New York (I believe) until his death.

If my memory serves me correctly there were two Warren Commission investigators who were looking at the Syliva Odio incident who had suggested (just before their funding was cut) the possibility that if the Odio incident were real the two men with Oswald may have provided him with a contact number to use if Oswald were to get into trouble.

Questions:

Why would they persue such an idea? Did they know about the Raleigh call?

Why did this lead go nowhere?

For myself there is no indication that John B. Hurt would have been anywhere near Raleigh, N. C. at the time of the assassination (as stated above he was probably in France), but a call to a cut out with a simple message "John Hurt" may have sent shock waves through the upper echelons of the intelligence community! Remember that to this day the work of John B. Hurt from 1945 - 1963 is still classified. I will suggest that if the accussed assassin of the President of the United States had this name and the number of a known CIA cut out in his possession, the consequences for US Intelligence and the United States Government would be dire to say the least! The need to eliminate Oswald would become paramount to the security of the United States and especially to those that may have orchestrated the assassination.

This is central to my theory of the assassination.....more importantly the man who knew of, had access to and knowledge of the work of John B. Hurt was John J. McCloy. Coincidence? I think not!

Toss in the fact that Hurt associates Frank Rowlett and Meredith Gardner do the NSA investigation of Oswald for the Warren Commission and you add to the "coincidences" surrounding this person/event.

Known CIA person in Raleign, N. C., Calvin Bryce Hoover who during WWII was working with Secrete Intelligence, was in June of 1959 working and meeting with Richard Helms on an off track mission that would be going through Helsinki, Finland in the months to follow.

Hoover, during WWII, gave the go ahead for Operation Stella Polaris that provided a great deal of information about Russian codes at the end of WWII. This mission was launced after John B. Hurt had translated intercepted japanese messages dealing with the movement of Finnish cryptologist near the end of the war. The boat that transferred these men was named Stella Polaris and was sent from Norway to pick the men up. At the end of the war the American in Norway to accept the German surrender and to oversee the transisitional governement in Norway, Col. Edwin Anderson Walker.

Jim Root

One of the reasons I never feel too bad about being the ersatz village idiot of the Forum, at least to some people, is the fact that there is a very logical and coherent reason why the areas I keep a close eye on, such as cryptography and Operation Valkyrie, can perhaps be explained as follows, with a little help from the late George Michael Evica, in addition, I can provide new information which may only be apparent to a select few.

Case In Point:

Take page 148 of A Certain Arrogance

Subtitled The Unitarians & The FBI

The [unitarian] Association's efforts to establish the truth about Noel Field "repeatedlly led to Unitarian inquiries to the FBI, and the FBI refused to open its files."

One of those responsible for withholding information from the Unitarians was FBI Special Agent Robert J. Lamphere. In 1941 Lamphere had "joined a squad in the New York office working on Soviet espionage matters . . [and] until 1955 . . . [was] a specialist in counterintelligence and spy cases of the Cold War

Era." Despite being part of the Bureau's unconstitutional mail intercept program, the same operation that intercepted Lee Oswald's mail, Lamphere wrote nothing on the subject in his memoir, The FBI-KGB War: A Special Agent's Story. His February 11, 2002 New York Times obituary also, predictably failed to mention this unconstitutional action. It did however, mention that Lamphere "was not as well known as his friend James J Angleton, who headed counterintelligence operations"

with whom Lamphere collaborated in counter-espionage activities. Lamphere's achievements in spy code decryption have been recorded in the history of the so-called Venona case. Reportedly the Army Signal Corps and Lamphere's Bureau team opened and decoded "thousands of enciphered telegrams sent by Soviet spies in the United States to Moscow...."

KGB Spy Chief Pavel Sudoplatov, however, suggested delicately that the Lamphere narrative was exaggerated: "former FBI agent Robert Lamphere.... presents a complicated story of how the FBI re-created our code books..... That may be true. I cannot absolutely exclude that code breaking might have played a role in exposing our agents....But we have reason to believe that the FBI, wanting to hide its [double] agent source of information, invented the story of code breaking."

end

Robert: And one cannot bring up The Unitarian Association, without, at least touching on the mysterious Albert Schweitzer College.

Consider the following excerpt

Commission Document 120 - FBI Oxley Report of 06 Dec 1963 5 pages re: Oswald; Dr. Robert H. Schacht, 138 Congdon Street, Providence, Rhode Island, Minister at the First Unitarian Church, was interviewed. Because the Oswald application was 'approved,' Dr. Schacht said. I am sure that he must have given three references, and their reports must have appeared satisfactory. "But I cannot recall who they were." Benevolent Street re-affirmed the correctness of the article.

he explained that the school was not actually a true college, because it gives no degrees, courses are less than a year, with the ultimate end of working for world unity. On Monday December 2, 1963 he received a letter dated November 29, 1963 from Miss ERIKA WEIBER, Secretary at the Albert Schweitzer College, which reminded him that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had applied for admission to the school in the fall of 1959 for the spring sememster of 1960 Oswald's mother had contacted the school requesting information as to the whereabouts of her son as she had not seen him "for several months"

and the inquiry was conducted at the school by the FBI through the Bern Via Chur Police Department

SA's JOSEPH A. OXLEY & WALTER M. BRADY

By the way, the Soviet KGB's 18th Directorate dealt specifically with codebreaking and cryptology, although those files may or may not ever be seen, and any connections to Oswald, [along the same lines as the NSA's Rhyming Dictionary had to Oswald and Ruby] would be speculative.

I also discovered an interesting genealogical fact about the codebreaker extraordinaire John Hurt.

see below

United States Census, 1920 for John B Hurt

Name: John B Hurt

Residence: , Wythe, Virginia

Estimated Birth Year: 1905

Age: 15

Birthplace: West Virginia

Relationship to Head of Household: Son

Gender: Male

Race: White

Marital Status: Single

Father's Birthplace: Virginia

Mother's Birthplace: Virginia

Film Number: 1821919

Digital Folder Number: 4392026

Image Number: 00378

Sheet Number: 4

Household Gender Age

Parent John P Hurt M 42y

Parent Edith J Hurt F 40y

John B Hurt M 15y

Joseph Hurt M 12y

Jake Hurt M 11y

Elizabeth Hurt F 8y

Clarence Hurt M 6y

Virginia Hurt F 4y9m

Joseph B Schaffer M 66y

https://www.familyse...4YP/p_427391850

So, apparently the Schaffer family, [remember Congressman Joe Shaffer was John B Hurt's uncle] was fairly close to each other

Joseph B Shaffer above was undoubtedly related to the Congressman, and John apparently had a lot of brothers and sisters.

Robert: Last but not least Jim's mention of Helsinki, brought to mind a factoid about George Joannides, the JMWAVE

bigwig, the agency brought out of retirement, to interface with G. Robert Blakey's college students who were trying to

access CIA files. Joannides was the "liason," between the two.

It is, I believe certain that George Joannides was linked to AMBARB and AMHINT

see George Joannides Thread, Steve Rosen post #123, if so the following document shows AMBARB had connections

to Helsinki

DISPATCH: OPERATIONAL/AMSPELL PROGRESS REPORT - JULY 1962 pg 5

Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 26: DRE - JURE)

covered under AMSPELL general A (_1) and AMSPELL development and plans A (4)

C AMBARB

1) General The main AMBARB project of the reporting period was launching of the delegation to Helsinki (WAVE 5944).

Reports gleaned from newspaper coverage indicate that activities of the delegation were highly successful, and that

AMBARB representatives contributed substantially to disruption of the conference. Pending the return of members

of the delegation who will render a complete report to be pouched separately

We will forward to Headquarters the AMBARB account when received, for your interest

RIF#: 104-10171-10334 (08/14/62) CIA#: 80T01357A

http://www.maryferre....do?docId=52396

Edited by Robert Howard
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Might point out that it is probable that Hurt was in France at the time of the assassination. He had retired from the NSA and would reside in New York (I believe) until his death.

If my memory serves me correctly there were two Warren Commission investigators who were looking at the Syliva Odio incident who had suggested (just before their funding was cut) the possibility that if the Odio incident were real the two men with Oswald may have provided him with a contact number to use if Oswald were to get into trouble.

Questions:

Why would they persue such an idea? Did they know about the Raleigh call?

Why did this lead go nowhere?

For myself there is no indication that John B. Hurt would have been anywhere near Raleigh, N. C. at the time of the assassination (as stated above he was probably in France), but a call to a cut out with a simple message "John Hurt" may have sent shock waves through the upper echelons of the intelligence community! Remember that to this day the work of John B. Hurt from 1945 - 1963 is still classified. I will suggest that if the accussed assassin of the President of the United States had this name and the number of a known CIA cut out in his possession, the consequences for US Intelligence and the United States Government would be dire to say the least! The need to eliminate Oswald would become paramount to the security of the United States and especially to those that may have orchestrated the assassination.

This is central to my theory of the assassination.....more importantly the man who knew of, had access to and knowledge of the work of John B. Hurt was John J. McCloy. Coincidence? I think not!

Toss in the fact that Hurt associates Frank Rowlett and Meredith Gardner do the NSA investigation of Oswald for the Warren Commission and you add to the "coincidences" surrounding this person/event.

Known CIA person in Raleign, N. C., Calvin Bryce Hoover who during WWII was working with Secrete Intelligence, was in June of 1959 working and meeting with Richard Helms on an off track mission that would be going through Helsinki, Finland in the months to follow.

Hoover, during WWII, gave the go ahead for Operation Stella Polaris that provided a great deal of information about Russian codes at the end of WWII. This mission was launced after John B. Hurt had translated intercepted japanese messages dealing with the movement of Finnish cryptologist near the end of the war. The boat that transferred these men was named Stella Polaris and was sent from Norway to pick the men up. At the end of the war the American in Norway to accept the German surrender and to oversee the transisitional governement in Norway, Col. Edwin Anderson Walker.

Jim Root

One of the reasons I never feel too bad about being the ersatz village idiot of the Forum, at least to some people, is the fact that there is a very logical and coherent reason why the areas I keep a close eye on, such as cryptography and Operation Valkyrie, can perhaps be explained as follows, with a little help from the late George Michael Evica, in addition, I can provide new information which may only be apparent to a select few.

Case In Point:

Take page 148 of A Certain Arrogance

Subtitled The Unitarians & The FBI

The [unitarian] Association's efforts to establish the truth about Noel Field "repeatedlly led to Unitarian inquiries to the FBI, and the FBI refused to open its files."

One of those responsible for withholding information from the Unitarians was FBI Special Agent Robert J. Lamphere. In 1941 Lamphere had "joined a squad in the New York office working on Soviet espionage matters . . [and] until 1955 . . . [was] a specialist in counterintelligence and spy cases of the Cold War

Era." Despite being part of the Bureau's unconstitutional mail intercept program, the same operation that intercepted Lee Oswald's mail, Lamphere wrote nothing on the subject in his memoir, The FBI-KGB War: A Special Agent's Story. His February 11, 2002 New York Times obituary also, predictably failed to mention this unconstitutional action. It did however, mention that Lamphere "was not as well known as his friend James J Angleton, who headed counterintelligence operations"

with whom Lamphere collaborated in counter-espionage activities. Lamphere's achievements in spy code decryption have been recorded in the history of the so-called Venona case. Reportedly the Army Signal Corps and Lamphere's Bureau team opened and decoded "thousands of enciphered telegrams sent by Soviet spies in the United States to Moscow...."

KGB Spy Chief Pavel Sudoplatov, however, suggested delicately that the Lamphere narrative was exaggerated: "former FBI agent Robert Lamphere.... presents a complicated story of how the FBI re-created our code books..... That may be true. I cannot absolutely exclude that code breaking might have played a role in exposing our agents....But we have reason to believe that the FBI, wanting to hide its [double] agent source of information, invented the story of code breaking."

end

Robert: And one cannot bring up The Unitarian Association, without, at least touching on the mysterious Albert Schweitzer College.

Consider the following excerpt

Commission Document 120 - FBI Oxley Report of 06 Dec 1963 5 pages re: Oswald; Dr. Robert H. Schacht, 138 Congdon Street, Providence, Rhode Island, Minister at the First Unitarian Church, was interviewed. Because the Oswald application was 'approved,' Dr. Schacht said. I am sure that he must have given three references, and their reports must have appeared satisfactory. "But I cannot recall who they were." Benevolent Street re-affirmed the correctness of the article.

he explained that the school was not actually a true college, because it gives no degrees, courses are less than a year, with the ultimate end of working for world unity. On Monday December 2, 1963 he received a letter dated November 29, 1963 from Miss ERIKA WEIBER, Secretary at the Albert Schweitzer College, which reminded him that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had applied for admission to the school in the fall of 1959 for the spring sememster of 1960 Oswald's mother had contacted the school requesting information as to the whereabouts of her son as she had not seen him "for several months"

and the inquiry was conducted at the school by the FBI through the Bern Via Chur Police Department

SA's JOSEPH A. OXLEY & WALTER M. BRADY

By the way, the Soviet KGB's 18th Directorate dealt specifically with codebreaking and cryptology, although those files may or may not ever be seen, and any connections to Oswald, [along the same lines as the NSA's Rhyming Dictionary had to Oswald and Ruby] would be speculative.

I also discovered an interesting genealogical fact about the codebreaker extraordinaire John Hurt.

see below

United States Census, 1920 for John B Hurt

Name: John B Hurt

Residence: , Wythe, Virginia

Estimated Birth Year: 1905

Age: 15

Birthplace: West Virginia

Relationship to Head of Household: Son

Gender: Male

Race: White

Marital Status: Single

Father's Birthplace: Virginia

Mother's Birthplace: Virginia

Film Number: 1821919

Digital Folder Number: 4392026

Image Number: 00378

Sheet Number: 4

Household Gender Age

Parent John P Hurt M 42y

Parent Edith J Hurt F 40y

John B Hurt M 15y

Joseph Hurt M 12y

Jake Hurt M 11y

Elizabeth Hurt F 8y

Clarence Hurt M 6y

Virginia Hurt F 4y9m

Joseph B Schaffer M 66y

https://www.familyse...4YP/p_427391850

So, apparently the Schaffer family, [remember Congressman Joe Shaffer was John B Hurt's uncle] was fairly close to each other

Joseph B Shaffer above was undoubtedly related to the Congressman, and John apparently had a lot of brothers and sisters.

Robert: Last but not least Jim's mention of Helsinki, brought to mind a factoid about George Joannides, the JMWAVE

bigwig, the agency brought out of retirement, to interface with G. Robert Blakey's college students who were trying to

access CIA files. Joannides was the "liason," between the two.

It is, I believe certain that George Joannides was linked to AMBARB and AMHINT

see George Joannides Thread, Steve Rosen post #123, if so the following document shows AMBARB had connections

to Helsinki

DISPATCH: OPERATIONAL/AMSPELL PROGRESS REPORT - JULY 1962 pg 5

Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 26: DRE - JURE)

covered under AMSPELL general A (_1) and AMSPELL development and plans A (4)

C AMBARB

1) General The main AMBARB project of the reporting period was launching of the delegation to Helsinki (WAVE 5944).

Reports gleaned from newspaper coverage indicate that activities of the delegation were highly successful, and that

AMBARB representatives contributed substantially to disruption of the conference. Pending the return of members

of the delegation who will render a complete report to be pouched separately

We will forward to Headquarters the AMBARB account when received, for your interest

RIF#: 104-10171-10334 (08/14/62) CIA#: 80T01357A

http://www.maryferre....do?docId=52396

Even though this does not pertain directly to John B Hurt, I think this one time I can excused.....

Prof Revilo Pendleton Oliver

http://www.jfk-assas...l15/page730.php

Mr. Jenner.

Do you teach Latin and Greek, too, or have you?

Mr. Oliver.

Oh, that is classics.

Mr. Jenner.

I see. During the war did you have some special assignment militarily oriented or Government oriented ?

Mr. Oliver.

Yes; during the war I was on leave from the university for service with the War Department.

Mr. Jenner.

And without revealing any secrets, would you tell us the general nature of that?

Mr. Oliver.

The general nature of that was work that is supposedly secret in nature. I can only say I was with the War Department and that the offices in which I principally worked were located on Lee Boulevard* in Arlington, and not in the Pentagon.

Mr. Jenner.

Was this civilian oriented rather than army oriented?

Mr. Oliver.

I was a civilian expert. It was, however, an Army Establishment under the command of a general.

Mr. Jenner.

What was that, research work?

Mr. Oliver.

Yes; under the command of a brigadier general, I should say.

Mr. Jenner.

This research work, did that involve any work of investigating

or inquiring into the commission of crimes or conspiracies, work of that nature?

Mr. Oliver.

Not actual investigation on my part.

end

later there is this

Mr. Jenner.

You then go on to state what appears to be a statement of fact or you represent it to be.

"In June of 1963 an experienced American military man made a careful analysis of the situation at that time, and in his highly confidential report concluded, on the basis of indications in Communist and crypto Communist sources, that the conspiracy's schedule called for a major incident to create national shock before Thanksgiving."

Who is that experienced American military man to whom you had reference?

( Conferring with counsel. )

Mr. Oliver.

The observer mentioned there is Col. Chesley Clark, retired.

Mr. Jenner.

Clark.

Mr. Oliver.

C-l-a-r-k, of the American Air Force.

Mr. Jenner.

Did he publish--this is a new name to me--- did he publish something on which you rely in making that statement?

Mr. Oliver.

This he told me not with a pledge that it was confidential, but with the implication that I would not disclose his name in a publication. I see no bar to disclosing it for the purpose of these hearings. If I may say, his estimates were made entirely from, what should we say, experience in psychological warfare and in reading the indications in the sequence of events and the form the propaganda was taking, and that the obviously had not, so far as I know, no inside information

Mr. Jenner.

This conversation or conversations that you had had with Colonel Clark, did it or they occur between the time of the assassination and the time of the publication of your article ?

Mr. Oliver.

No, before the assassination, I am sure. I would say perhaps--it is hard to recollect but I would say a month or 6 weeks before.

Mr. Jenner.

I take it, I don't even like to say this because I don't want you to take it wrong, certainly there was nothing in Colonel Clark's statement to you, sir, that carried any implication of any anticipation of a possible assassination of President Kennedy?

Mr. Oliver.

No. Of a, however--it did astutely anticipate some event that would create a national shock.

Mr. Jenner.

When I say I hesitate to say it but I know what you would have done, I think I know what you would 'have done, had there been any implication, you would have alarmed the authorities.

Mr. Oliver.

There was no--

Mr. Jenner.

I am correct about that, am I not?

Mr. Oliver.

You are correct about that. The nature of the event that would create this shock was, of course, necessarily speculative.

Mr. Jenner.

All right. Then you discuss the feeling of men like you, that there was some crisis about to take place, and this feeling was communicated to you by men like Colonel Clark and others

FROM THE ARCHIVES CODETALKERS NOT WANTED

Cryptologia, Jan 2005 by Kahn, David

At the National Archives, I came across a sheaf of interesting documents about American Indian codetalkers. Some of the information they provided is widely known, like that about Philip Johnston, who almost single-handedly persuaded the Marines to use Navajos for secrecy in radiotéléphonie communications.

One item reports on the World War I use of Choctaws. But some of the other items show that the Army, Navy, and Air Corps did not want American Indians as codetalkers, offering various objections. These documents offer a more rounded view of the use of native Americans than much of the literature and the film "Windtalkers" and help to explain why all services did not employ codetalkers.

In the documents, Colonel McCormack, whose first name was Alfred, was the deputy director of the Military Intelligence Division's Special Branch, which edited solved messages for higher authority, including the president. Colonel, later Brigadier General, W. Preston Corderman commanded the Signal security Agency, the Army's central codebreaking organization. William F. Friedman, the spiritus rector of American Army cryptology, was its director of research. Who lawyer Carl Wheat was, or why he got involved, or why he was writing Friedman at his home instead of his office, are unknown to me.

The documents come from the National Archives, Record Group 457 [Records of the National security Agency], Entry 9032, Box 949, Folder 55A: "Memoranda Use of American Indians as Communications Linguists 1943-1944."

8 September 1943

Memo for Colonel McCormack:

1. It is possible that this idea was "tried with little success in Word War I" but it is thought that official records would disclose that the idea was merely suggested and discarder as impractical and dangerous, not only from the standpoint of security but also from the standpoint of accuracy.

2. It is difficult at times for two intelligent and quite fluent speakers to understand each other on good commercial telephone circuits; when the circuits are only fair or bad, as they often are under adverse field conditions, then the quality of the signals becomes so poor that serious misunderstandings are very likely to arise.

3. The use of Indians for the purpose indicated will really mean that they would be employed in the capacity of interpreters serving as intermediaries between the unit commanders concerned. The danger of misunderstanding arising from this source, even in ordinary, every day life, is recognized; in military operations, where accuracy in, and proper understanding of technical terminology is important, they may have very serious consequences.

4. Add to the foregoing factors the fact that the vocabulary to any Indian dialect which might be selected will certainly be deficient in military and technical terms, forcing the use of the plain English terms, it is clear that security would be lessened. Or, if arbitrary designations were adopted for them, there would soon grow up a code - putting the matter back exactly where it was before, with a considerable loss in efficiency in communication.

5. So long as radiophone and telephone communications are in English unit commanders and security personal designated to monitor circuits can easily ascertain when and whether or not dangerous violations of security are occurring. If Indians were used, this would no longer be the case and unit commanders would be entirely dependent upon the good judgment of the personnel involved and their individual, personal appraisals or estimates of what may or may not be dangerous to say at a specific time over these circuits.

6. It would be better to employ present methods and personnel with a good code specifically adapted for the purpose. Recent development of a device called "Slidex" gives promise of yielding a good answer to the problem of safe and speedy radiophone communication for forward echelons. Samples of this device will be sent the New Caledonia and other commands as promptly as possible.

W. Preston Corderman

Colonel, Signal Corps

Attached: /Msg. fm COMGENSOPAC /dtd. 6 Sept. 43

COPY

ARMY WAR COLLEGE

Washington, D. C. JWW; rw

29 September 1943

Col. S. P. Collins

Acting Chief, Signal Security Branch, A. S. P.,

300 Lee Blvd., Arlington, Virginia

My dear Colonel Collins:

With reference to paragraph 3, your 1st endorsement, dated September 23, 1943, as addressed to this office, I enclose a copy of an official document (23632.5) bearing on the use of Indian dialects for code purposes. This is the only document we have ever been able to locate in the official A. E. F. files on this subject.

Very truly yours,

/s/J. W. WRIGHT,

J. W. WRIGHT,

Colonel, Infantry

end

Regarding R P Oliver, the Lee Boulevard Address was what caught my mind.....

I found the following on wikipedia, but it does not provide a footnote citation....

During World War II, Oliver worked with distinction at the U.S. Army Signal Corps installation, Arlington Hall, in cryptanalysis. From 1942 until the autumn of 1945, he came to be in charge of a rapidly expanding department, and advanced from Analyst to Director of Research (eventually responsible for the work of about 175 persons).

apparently its true, did anybody else know this?

Willis Carto and the American far right

books.google.comGeorge Michael - 2008 - 341 pages - Snippet view

was Revilo P. Oliver, who was born in 1911 in Corpus Christi, Texas, and attended high school in Louisiana and ... as a code-breaker for the Army Security Agency located at Arlington Hall in Virginia.13 He later recounted that it was ..

Rocky Mountain News (CO) - August 9, 2005

Deceased Name: CLARK , CHESLEY K.

Chesley K. Clark, Lt. Col. USAF (ret), 92, passed away August 4, 2005. Preceded by wife Louise. Survived by children Marian and Livingston (Brenda); grandchildren Brandon and Stephanie; and brother Philip (Elaine). Burial at Ft. Logan 8/9/05, at 3 p.m., Area B.

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Odd...this article makes a point that Hurt did not visit France...

http://www.roanoke.c...nrv/wb/xp-31494

...Hurt had mastered that language, among others, without ever having visited Japan. He also spoke French and did not visit France -- although he did marry a French concert cellist named Ana....

Concert cellist?

Ian Fleming's sister was a concert cellist, as was Virginia Pleasants - the wife of Henry Pleasants - who wrote classical movie reviews when he wasn't working for the OSS/CIA in Germany and debriefing Gehlen.

And wasn't the Russian female sniper assassin in the Fleming 007 story a cellist?

I think they had a cell of cellists going there.

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Odd...this article makes a point that Hurt did not visit France...

http://www.roanoke.c...nrv/wb/xp-31494

...Hurt had mastered that language, among others, without ever having visited Japan. He also spoke French and did not visit France -- although he did marry a French concert cellist named Ana....

Concert cellist?

Ian Fleming's sister was a concert cellist, as was Virginia Pleasants - the wife of Henry Pleasants - who wrote classical movie reviews when he wasn't working for the OSS/CIA in Germany and debriefing Gehlen.

And wasn't the Russian female sniper assassin in the Fleming 007 story a cellist?

I think they had a cell of cellists going there.

One of the frustrations about the whole John B. Hurt/Oswald business is the fact that there have been so many destroyed documents, that I always keep it in the back of my mind that documenting a link between the two is not an inevitably, point being a documented link, may have been among one of those documents. Being a realist, it is also worth reminding that the original Raleigh Call material makes no mention of John Hurt the cryptanalyst, but the two John Hurt's in North Carolina, one operated a tire repair store, the other being the former Military Intelligence chap.

excerpts from Grover Proctor's article

begin

DECEMBER, 1962

Hurt John D 415 New Bern Av TE4-7430

Hurt John W Old Wake Forest Rd 833-1253

DECEMBER, 1963

Hurt John D 201 Hillsbro 834-7430

Hurt John W Old Wake Forest Rd 833-1253

Biography of the John Hurt in NC

JOHN DAVID HURT

Born May 12, 1909, River Bend, Colo.

Height 5' 4" -- Weight 140# (1954)

LLB, University of Virginia June 13, 1933

Wife, Billie G. ; clerk, Teachers Retirement Division,

State of N.C. since 1955 or possibly

earlier.

Present resident;201 Hillsboro, Raleigh, N.C., Apt. 4

1967 same

1966 same

1965 same

1964 wife only listed at above address, subject gave as

address Box 454, Zebulon, N.C.

1963 wife only listed at above address; no address known

for subject.

1962 415 New Bern Ave., Raleigh, N.C.

1961 same

1960 same

1959 2711 St Mary Street, Raleigh, N.C.

1958 same

1957 same

1956 address inknown

1955 204 Faircloth Street, Raleigh, N.C.

1940 9 Blount Street, Raleigh, N.C.

Employment according to subject's own resume;

1938 Jas. Green Co., Raleigh, N.C. Investigator

1942 to 1945 U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corps. Special agent

1947 American Gas Co. Investigator, Reading, Pa.

1947 General Adjustment Bureau,Atlanta, Ga. Claims Adjuster

1952 Insurance Claims Service, Charleston, S.C. Accident Investigator

1953 F.T. Dupress, Raleigh, N.C. Investigator

1953 Southeast Adjustment Co., Martinsville, Va., Investigator

Additional employment according to wife's conversation with

N.C. S.B.I. Agent on July 2, 1968;

Private Investigator, Southern Florida, 1963, Ocean City Md,

date unknown; Delaware, date unknown.

Arrests; Raleigh, N.C.

July 10, 1959 Failure to stop at stop sign

July 24,*Court Order on mental cast. * 1959

Sept. 29,1961, Improper Equipment (Driver's License 850960)

April 17, 1964, Drunk P.I.

June 6, 1968, Public Intoxication and illegal possession

of tax paid liquor.

August 13, 1955, O.T.P. Arrest #5655 (charge not shown)

Arrest, Zebulon, N.C., 1964, Drunk and disorderly with

Wendell Perry.

References given by subject on job application;

George L. Warthen

George A. Isely

T. Lacy Williams

John H. AndersonJr.

W. Cary Parker

all of Raleigh, N.C.

Occupants of building where subject resides at present;

Calvin Zimmerman, owner, reportedly has Lesbian daughter of

"butch" type.

Marcola Pullen (Mrs)

Ethel Manders

Florence Dodge

Bessie W. Poole

Ila B. Powers (Mrs.)

Dorothy Vann

Intelligence reports that there have been suspected organ-

ized homosexual activities in building and a murder was

committed there about two or three years ago with homo-

sexual motive. Neighborhood is transent and run-down,

comprised mostly of commercial buildings, a bus depot,

and some rooming houses. Cuban refugees reportedly occ-

upy a nearby rooming house and another rooming house

attracts homosexuals. 201 Hillsboro, subject's building,

looks better kept than those surrounding it.

end

Having said that, that Oswald was deliberately trying to contact the MI Hurt, is hard for me to accept because the idea that Lee Oswald would be contacting him only makes sense if it was some sort of setup, the guy [rightly?] comes off as a little wacked out, to say the least.

I also found a little bit more about the phone calls Oswald made, I still think Oswald was the one who called Hurt and not vice versa, the Dallas Police did not report

to the Warren Commission the two phone numbers he had obtained.

this is not verbatim, but you can see the phone numbers and to whom they are going to....

Commission Document 1406 - FBI Letter from Director of 04 Feb 1964 re: Oswald Telephone Numbers in Pocket 4 pages

page 1, Captain J.W. Fritz advised that Oswald requested permission to call attorney John Abt, in New York but did not have his telephone number. Captain Fritz told Oswald he could call collect and that he would have to give the operator the name of the person he wanted without the number and it being an attorney in New York, the operator would locate Abt and furnish the telephone number to him. Captain Fritz also told Oswald the operator would want to know the number Oswald was calling from. In this connection it is noted the telephone number RI8-9711 appears on the dial of the telephone in the jail and this was one of the four numbers on the piece of paper found in Oswald’s trousers.

Officer [Jim] Poppelwell advised he tore off a small piece of paper to Oswald.

Our New York office has advised that the office address for attorney John J Abt is 320 Broadway, New York City the same address as the law firm of David Freedman and Abraham Unger. The telephone number for Freedman and Unger listed CO 7-3110 and this same telephone number attorney John J Abt.

It is noted that the telephone number AC 2-4611 which appeared on the slip of paper found in Oswald’s trousers, is listed to attorney John J. Abt, 444 Central Park West, New York City.

Telephone number RI8-9711 is the general telephone number for the City of Dallas, Texas and it is noted Captain Fritz stated that this number appeared on the dial of the telphone Oswald was utilizing. The reason why the telephone number OR 9-9450 “The Worker” (East Coast Communist Party Newspapers) appears on this list is not known. The possibility exists that the operator, at Oswald’s request or on her own initative may have attempted to reach attorney Abt at this number.

END

So back, to John B Hurt....Jim Root has pointed out the McCloy/Walker/Grombach connections, Gordon Blake was with NSA that did the analysis of Oswald's Russian documents ie "Questioning Eyes" for cryptographic significance, we now know that Revilo Oliver was with the Army Security Agency cryptology in the World War II era, and omitted any direct reference to it in his Warren Commission testimony, somewhere Alfred McCormack fits in, although he had died by the time of the Kennedy assassination.

William P Bundy, was at Bletchley Park, which did have a Japanese section, BTW, while John B Hurt was at Arlington Hall in Washington.....William Friedman

Then there is the area of possible connections genealogically between Harry D. Holmes, = both Jasper Holmes, W. J. Holmes [author Double Edged Secrets] who were on the periphery of codebreaking vis a vis Naval Intelligence, ditto Harrod G. Miller, and the tons of Miller's in Dallas...There was a Captain Harry Shaw [see The Emperors Codes. relative of LaVergne Clay Shaw?]

another factoid

begin

A map of the Nisei linguist deployments in, let us say, 1944 would be very revealing of the intelligence infrastructure:

1. Indooroopilly Racetrack in Australia (Allied Translator and Interpreter Section— ATIS— and the Central Bureau),

2. a former furniture store in Honolulu (Joint Intelligence Center, Pacific Ocean Areas — JICPOA),

3. Camp Ritchie, Maryland (Pacific Military Intelligence Research Section— PACMIRS),

4.Warrenton, Virginia (Vint Hill Farms Station),

5. New Delhi, India (South East Asia Translation and Interrogation Center— SEATIC),

6. and an abandoned Civilian Conservation Corps camp in the Minnesota woods (Military Intelligence Service Language School— MISLS).

They also accompanied soldiers and Marines in landing operations at regiment, division, and corps level and flew missions

with the Army Air Forces in B-17s, B-24s, and B-29s.

end

Regarding the cellist area, I have one suggestion for all those who believe this is a critical area, there are a ton of books that delve into the cryptology PURPLE/ENIGMA/ULTRA

area, if I were to name the one that reads as a companion to all of this, it is Michael Smith's The Emperors Codes.

Read the section with the interview of Bernard Keefe, or even search google "codebreaking Bernard Keefe"

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please ignore re current discussion factoid 2 jumped out cause in a long search for various things from mostly one source (MSC) a number, at least enough to be of some interest, lead to contemporary furniture or furnishing stores or outlets ih Jersey and NY and elsewhere. A bit odd I've thought at times. This factoid makes that a bit more interesting.

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Oswald;s call to Attorney Johnathan Abt was a person to person collect phone call and repeated attempts were made by Oswald to call various numbers to no avail. Oswald also attempted to have several other people contact Abt and was very interested in contacting this attorney.

Yet in the case of the Raleign Call we have one single attempt by Oswald with no attempts at follow up!

The only reason that we have information about the attempted Raleigh Call was because one operator retrieved a piece of paper that had two different numbers for two different John Hurt's in the Raleigh, NC area that had been tossed by the previous operator. Apparently the SS was there to listen in on any call that Oswald might have completed.

I am old enough to remember person to person collect calls and used them regularly when I was in college to make contact with my girlfriend in another State. The routine was for me to call her and for her to not accept the call. We would then go to a prearranged phone booths and pay for a 3 minute call (always talking way over three minutes). The point was the call was a signal rather than a true attempt to complete a call or speak to the rectipiant. My speculation is that Oswald had no intention of reaching a John Hurt, only the intention of passing a pre-arranged name to a cut out that was supposed to provide help to Oswald. It is my contention that the lack of follow up supports this theory because the message was delivered without any actual discussion needing to take place, just as I used the person to person operator to convey a message to my girlfriend of old.

Within my research I have uncovered a wealth of information on "Operation Stella Polaris" and meetings that occured in June of 1959 that were designed (at least Wilho Tikander believed they were designed) to provide information to Richard Helms about an off the radar intelligence operation that was to go through Helsinki, Finland in the near (1959) future. Gathering and meeting with Tikander, Helms and others was John J. McCloy associate and former head of Secret Intelligence Whitney Shepardson. I was led to this infromation by speculating on who in Raleigh, NC Oswald may have contacted. It is just a hunch and it was based upon speculation but the person who I believe may have been contacted would have known of the importance of the work of John B. Hurt because he had used it to launch Operation Stella Polaris. Needless to say if Oswald had been provided the number of this person and if the operator had mentioned the name John B. Hurt....Oswald would soon be a dead man walking....and in my theory the true conspirators would not have had to dirty their hands to plan the death of Oswald....it would be done for them!

To support this theory I had to uncover John B. Hurt and his roll in intelligence, which I did! I had to associate Hurt and his intelligence connection to John J. McCloy, which I have! I also had to find a connection between Hurt, McCloy and Raleigh, NC which, once again I did! And in so doing the connection continues directly to Richard Helms and Whitney Shepardson (who, along with Demitri de Mohrenschildt, brother of George de Mohrenschildt, started Radio Free Europe).

It is a very tight circle and for myself I can understand why the Raleigh Call was never reported in the Warren Commission Report that McCloy was so involved in creating. It also seems to make sense that two of John B. Hurt's associates, Meredith Garner and Frank Rowlett would be assigned by the NSA to repoet on Oswald's intelligence connections.

Simple, and complete....but does anyone else see what I see?

Jim Root

Edited by Jim Root
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Yes, Jim, but then I have an affinity with some matters. On another note, one then has a direct person to person (as long as I'm getting the right Helms) connection to The Post Master General in the Cabinet and through the USPO (NOT : USPS) PI department to PI (FBI informant) Harry D. Holmes and straight to Fritz and the DPD and the delay in transfer and the killing of Oswald. etc... . Though I do think you have to stop trying to rehabilitate Walker.

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Yes, Jim, but then I have an affinity with some matters. On another note, one then has a direct person to person (as long as I'm getting the right Helms) connection to The Post Master General in the Cabinet and through the USPO (NOT : USPS) PI department to PI (FBI informant) Harry D. Holmes and straight to Fritz and the DPD and the delay in transfer and the killing of Oswald. etc... . Though I do think you have to stop trying to rehabilitate Walker.

I just wanted to thank Jim for his last post, I believe it succinctly summarizes the essence of the hidden machinations regarding the persons who are significant in the cryptology field and the sort of backdrop around it.......

As far as other cryptological areas, I can mention one with reference to Frank Sturgis aka Frank Fiorini....

In the archives there is a reference to a document entitled

Albanian Cryptographic Material

NARA Record Number: 1993.07.16.10:09:11:060590

JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 16

http://www.maryferre....do?docId=72664

It is hard to get a handle on what this is all about, I know there was something about Sturgis being accused, or, being responsible for a tap on Senator Howard Baker's telephone circa the same time period, if I am not mistaken.... I don't believe the Albanian material, if there even was such a thing has anything to do with the

Friedman/Hurt/Magic area, but nevertheless it is an oddity.

It is also my view that figures such as Sturgis and Hemming were in it up to their neck, and had a certain amount of leeway, in terms of being held accountable as such......

But that is just my opinion. Anyone who knows how the JFK conspiracy game was played by those involved, as it were, is to generate a lot of back and forth with a mixture of truth and outright lies and keep the great unwashed guessing. Hemming and Sturgis, among others, played that fiddle till the strings broke.

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Yes, Jim, but then I have an affinity with some matters. On another note, one then has a direct person to person (as long as I'm getting the right Helms) connection to The Post Master General in the Cabinet and through the USPO (NOT : USPS) PI department to PI (FBI informant) Harry D. Holmes and straight to Fritz and the DPD and the delay in transfer and the killing of Oswald. etc... . Though I do think you have to stop trying to rehabilitate Walker.

Hi John

Thank you for your work.....Yes I am dealing with Richard Helms who would become the director of the CIA....

I enjoyed your comment about rehabilitating good ole' General Walker....he is a difficult character to get a handle on!

All of my research began with an inquiry into him and his background....following it I have found a person who was quite probably homosexual whose family pushed him into the military to make a man out of him. I have rason to believe that early in his West Point career this particular aspect of Walker's life may have come to the attention of one of his instructors (Maxwell Taylor). Maxwell Taylor would guide (or control) Walker's military career for the following 30 years. Begining immediately upon graduation from West Point, Walker's involvement in intelligence work becomes apparent. It seems clear that he was envolved in undercover operations immediately and quickly moved into operation where he was "observing" members of the intelligence community.....including John B. Hurt (which is how I identified this person). Walker would continue working "around" intelligence operations and would be assigned to the First Special Services Forces just in time to land at lead the landing on the island of Kiska where his men captured what was at the time believed to be the most sophisticated Japanese Radar instillation in existance.....McCloy was on board a ship at these landings to receive the reports of the capture of this instillation....(the frist of several "operations" Walker would be assigned to accomplish for McCloy).

The list goes on ..... but you are right I do believe that Walker (just as many Germans tried at Nuremberg) believed that he was just following orders. The Overseas Weekly article that lead to the end of his career took him by surprise. I do not say this flippantly because I have read many of the letters that he was writting to very influencial people within the intelligence community trying to figure out why he was the victim of what he was sure was an intelligence smear...

I have talked with numerous soldiers that served with Walker in the 1940's and 1950's including a Sergent that helped to develop the Pro-Blue Program while he Walker was stationed in Hawaii....long before Germany and Oswald's first attempts to return to the United States. I have uncovered a letter from McCloy to Walker written some six months before the assassination of JFK that is at least a curriosity but when examined further the date November 22 can be extrapolated from it.

Walker, in my opinion, is guilty of not exposing exactly who was responsible for the assassination of JFK (which I believe he could have easily figured out....if my research has led me to a correct theory). I think that Walker knew a lot more about Oswald that he could have shared but only answered the questions asked during his testemony and, evn then, Walker did a great job of avoiding providing much information at all in respones to the questions that were asked of him.

I did also uncover that Walker trained Gerry Patrick Hemming and probably recruited him into covert operations. While Hemming never answered that question specifically he did share a lot of information dealing with his relationship with Walker.

I do not beleive that Walker was pure by any means but I do beleive that his lifes works is well worth studying in relation to finding the real events that led to the assassination of JFK.

Jim Root

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Thanks Jim, I trust you are well.

Yeah, good ole' Walker. It's great to get your perspective. He needs to be understood.

Partly I think it important that if he can be seen as other than a ''buffooon'' of sorts then the moments when he stepped off the plane in Shreveport could be very significant. It brings to mind some apparently contradictory thing Gerry had to say about him ( see topic Walker - a pauper?'' from mem). If Oswald was nuts he was the KIng of Nuts. (imo)

I'd really like to know more about his Norway assignment. Do you know much or where to find it?

Is there anything to tie him (sorry folks, I suspect it would be benign given the times, but then I'm pre disposed to bias on that matter) to the Royal Family (Norwegian)?

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John

Just a quick reply dealing with Walker in Norway.

In December of 1944 the First Special Services Force was disbanded. The American members were combined with the remnants of some Ranger Units to develop the 474th Infantry Regiment. They would help to move the Nazi loot that was liberated from Merkers Mine by Patton's Army. Interestingly this movement and accounting of the loot was done as an operation that McCloy was both interested in and in a position to oversee....but that is another story alltogether.

According to Wilho Tikander's History of the OSS Mission in Sweden it was discerned that the German garrison in Norway was ready to surrender before the War actually ended. Apparently, using this information a combination of the 474th Infantry Regiment and the 99th Infantry Battalion, Saparate (made up of Americans of Norwegian desent and a few stranded Norwegian Nationals)was put together to move into Norway. Officially the 99th was fully active in Norway by June of 1945 but it seems that logistical teams of the 474th were in Norway substancially before June 1945. There is a wonderful little museum at Camp Ripley, MN were I have done some research on this unit.

Depending upon the source there were between 250,000 and 400,000 German troops that surrendered in Norway. In addition there was a substansial number of Russian POWs as well that needed to be repatriated to the USSR. Walker had processed large numbers of CCC workers in the United States in the early 1930's for the Army and was a custom fit for this type of work in Norway. At the time the US Army was searching for future intelligence assets that would be infiltrated into the Soviet Union (Russian POWs) as well as Germans that would be sent back to the Russian zones of occupation in East Germany.

Hope this helps a bit.....In addition you may find this of interest.

At the end of the Korean War, Maxwell Taylor would place Walker in charge of processing Chinese and North Korean POWs in preperation for the prisoner exchange that occured at the end of hostilities. We were also looking for intelligence assets at this time as well. Fast forward and you find Walker in Taiwan during the First Straits of Taiwan Crisis.....Did the Army send a "buffoon" to do this job as well or a very specially trained man capable of handling the most delicate of operations successfully?

Jim Root

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  • 2 months later...

....Hurt stated his commanding officer in theC.I.C. was Melville Grimes, who he believes is now practicing law in Baltimore.....

Is this the same Melville Grimes, Esq. who was killed, along with his wife, by their next door neighbor in California, over a land dispute concerning the boundary between

their properties?

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