A Military Takeover Of The United States?

[Myra Bronstein]

...

"According to Robert Bryce: "Vietnam made Bell Helicopters". ""

And LBJ made Bell Helicopters. Weren't they almost bankrupt before LBJ made them?

And, Hughies, too. Compliments of Hughes Aircraft Industries, Inc.

Damn, Myra! I couldn't have said it better than you did. Bravo, girl!

Oh, Hughes. I'll have to look into that. Thanks Terry.

[Myra Bronstein]

Thanks James.

I'm guessing pratice makes perfect?

Yet we have not seen it done in the US(?).

The closest would be the King assassination

as I remember images of machine gun post

and barb wire at the White House.

johnw

Indeed, John.

With something like Op Big Lift in play during the weeks before the assassination, having say a flight out of Laos with operational teams on board would not have drawn much attention.

In addition, with all the activity out of Fort Hood, Texas would have been a hive of activity and shuffling personnel around would have been easy.

I have always wondered if one of the reasons Dallas was selected was because of this.

James

Well, Chicago and Tampa were selected too--supposedly.

[Guest John Woods]

Thanks James.

I'm guessing pratice makes perfect?

Yet we have not seen it done in the US(?).

The closest would be the King assassination

as I remember images of machine gun post

and barb wire at the White House.

johnw

Indeed, John.

With something like Op Big Lift in play during the weeks before the assassination, having say a flight out of Laos with operational teams on board would not have drawn much attention.

In addition, with all the activity out of Fort Hood, Texas would have been a hive of activity and shuffling personnel around would have been easy.

I have always wondered if one of the reasons Dallas was selected was because of this.

James

Well, Chicago and Tampa were selected too--supposedly.

Ok, I bite, very interesting statement! Were did these operational teams landed?

johnw

[James Richards]

Thanks James.

I'm guessing pratice makes perfect?

Yet we have not seen it done in the US(?).

The closest would be the King assassination

as I remember images of machine gun post

and barb wire at the White House.

johnw

Indeed, John.

With something like Op Big Lift in play during the weeks before the assassination, having say a flight out of Laos with operational teams on board would not have drawn much attention.

In addition, with all the activity out of Fort Hood, Texas would have been a hive of activity and shuffling personnel around would have been easy.

I have always wondered if one of the reasons Dallas was selected was because of this.

James

Well, Chicago and Tampa were selected too--supposedly.

Ok, I bite, very interesting statement! Were did these operational teams landed?

johnw

John,

I guess that could have been anywhere. An out of state stop to board a smaller plane so to land at one of the more compact airfields around Dallas might also be possible.

James

[Guest John Woods]

Thanks James.

I have been having trouble with memory frats.

I recall reading a DOD Dispatch that caused my

problem

johnw

[Myra Bronstein]

Thanks James.

I'm guessing pratice makes perfect?

Yet we have not seen it done in the US(?).

The closest would be the King assassination

as I remember images of machine gun post

and barb wire at the White House.

johnw

Indeed, John.

With something like Op Big Lift in play during the weeks before the assassination, having say a flight out of Laos with operational teams on board would not have drawn much attention.

In addition, with all the activity out of Fort Hood, Texas would have been a hive of activity and shuffling personnel around would have been easy.

I have always wondered if one of the reasons Dallas was selected was because of this.

James

Well, Chicago and Tampa were selected too--supposedly.

Ok, I bite, very interesting statement! Were did these operational teams landed?

johnw

I'm not sure if I'm answering the question you're asking John, but I was referring to the following:

" Yet in November 1963, John and Robert Kennedy were able to keep two assassination plots against JFK that month out of the media at the time. The first was in Chicago, on November 2, 1963--when JFK had to cancel his trip and motorcade at the last minute--and the second was during JFK's long motorcade through Tampa, Florida on November 18, 1963, just four days before Dallas. Both the Chicago and Tampa plots had many similarities to Dallas, yet they were withheld from the news media and most investigators."

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0217-20.htm

[Robert Howard]

Thanks James.

I have been having trouble with memory frats.

I recall reading a DOD Dispatch that caused my

problem

johnw

NARA Finding Aid

ARRB Box Listing

Box 122 4.50 Operation Big-Lift

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...absPageId=70122

[Ron Ecker]

Here's a link to Time Magazine's 11/1/63 coverage of Operation Big Lift:

link

Since the operation began on October 22, and was designed to have all the troops in Europe in 72 hours, the timing would seem to be off by a month in terms of any connection to the plot in Dallas.

Return flights from Europe might be another matter. It's a question of how long they stayed in Europe before flying back into Texas.

[Myra Bronstein]

Here's a link to Time Magazine's 11/1/63 coverage of Operation Big Lift:

link

Since the operation began on October 22, and was designed to have all the troops in Europe in 72 hours, the timing would seem to be off by a month in terms of any connection to the plot in Dallas.

Return flights from Europe might be another matter. It's a question of how long they stayed in Europe before flying back into Texas.

Thanks Ron.

Ok, so Time magazine "reported" it...

When a major CIA rag "reports" something, esp on military and spy matters, doesn't that make the "something" suspect?

[Guest John Woods]

Thanks to all for taking the time and your assistance.

Greatly appreciated!!!!!!

johnw

[Myra Bronstein]

Dealey Plaza should be recognized as a highly effective assault on civilian control over the military.

Correspondingly, the Warren Commission can be seen as a delegation of the civilian leaders of our country accepting the terms laid down to them by the military. The military conceded one condition which clearly was in the initial planning; they dropped their requirement for an invasion of Cuba. Beyond that concession, the assassination and the inquiry are best recognized for what they were: a military takeover of the United States. It was nothing less.

If we are to understand and bring under control the forces which are shaping today's America and are endeavoring to shape our future, we cannot rest with the official version of the killing of John Kennedy. The model of explanation offered here explains the available data. We must employ this tool of analysis until or unless another one is offered which better explains the evidence.

If we cannot have the truth once and for all about the government's murder of John Kennedy, if the warfare interests in our government are so powerful that they cannot be questioned about such things, then let us have an end to the pretense that this is a government of the people.

...

In any event, we need no longer pretend that there is any mystery left about the assassination of John Kennedy. The cold war was the biggest business in America, worth eighty billion dollars a year as well as tremendous power to men in Washington. The President was murdered because he was genuinely seeking peace in a corrupt world. As tired as we are of the horror of the subject, all of us must address ourselves honestly to the meaning and implications of the assassination of John Kennedy, or all of us will pay the price of living in tyranny.

Jim Garrison, A Heritage of Stone

G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York, 1970

Speaking of Garrison...

"A few excerpts from the book Heartland by Mort Sahl

from pages 116 - 119

Arriving in New Orleans, I got into a cab and said to the cabbie, "4600 Owens Boulevard." "That's Jim Garrison's house! I'll let you off on the corner. I don't want to get shot. Somebody says there's a machine gun pointed at his door." "What do you think of this thing Garrison's got?" The driver said, "I believe those bastards in Washington are capable of anything—and a lot worse."

I walked to the door and a man emerged, all six foot seven inches of him, wearing a bathrobe. I said, "I'm Mort Sahl, and I came down here to shake your hand." Garrison said, "I hope you're available to do a lot more than that." Later, he took me into a wine cellar at the Royal Orleans Hotel and opened up the Manila envelope that was the beginning of a compilation of a four-year investigation. It contained documents on Pentagon and Central Intelligence Agency involvement in the events surrounding the Kennedy assassination.

Who was involved? I recall at a press conference that Garrison spoke of "the right wing," and a reporter said, "But you've also charged the CIA and others." Garrison's reply still holds. "These are not mutually exclusive groups. Usually a conspiracy involves more than one person.""

http://maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20No...20excerpts.html

Good ol' Mae...

The excerpts on this page are fantastic. Sahl knew what Garrison knew and Garrison knew.

Has anyone here read Sahl's book "Heartland"?

I want to know if there is a lot more material on the Kennedys, or if Mae excerpted all of it.

...

If we cannot have the truth once and for all about the government's murder of John Kennedy, if the warfare interests in our government are so powerful that they cannot be questioned about such things, then let us have an end to the pretense that this is a government of the people.

If the American people choose to do nothing about what was done to John Kennedy and about the subtle conversion of their country from a democracy into a thinly disguised version of the warfare state, then the republic is lost and we will never see it again in our time.

...

Jim Garrison, A Heritage of Stone

G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York, 1970

Again Sahl's in sync with Garrison. And the guy has a way with words:

"Now you know there are murderers among us, killers of the dream.

You know what they did. I know some of you don't want to get involved, but you began your involvement when you began life.

Do it for the best friend you ever had, John F. Kennedy.

Do it for yourself.

You must do it, because there is no one else."

(From the same URL. Bold emphasis mine.)

[Robert Howard]

There is reason to believe not everything is known to everyone regarding Operation Big Lift.

I believe the following will be useful to those who believe there was a connection to the assassination

and those who do not.

Exercise Called Success
First G.I.’s Jet Home
From ‘Big Lift’ Test
11-12-1963;
AUSTIN - November 12 (AP)
The first C-135 jet transport bringing troops from the 2nd Armored Division
back from maneuvers in Germany landed at Bergstrom Air Force Base at 3:30
p.m. Tuesday.”The maneuvers exceeded all expectations” Brig. Gen. Keith L. Ware
assistant division commander reported to Maj. Gen H. J. Jablonsky, acting 3rd Corps
and Ft. Hood commander. “You won’t need that beaver cap here,” Jablonsky told
the Chief of the advance party, as the two walked in the bright Texas sunshine to a point
where U. S. Customs agents examined the baggage of the 73 returning officers and men.
Ware and 2nd Armored Division personnel wore steel helmets and fatigues when they departed
Bergstrom AFB last month at the start of “Big-Lift,” a trans-Atlantic airlift of about 15,000
troops designed to prove the United States ability to move combat troops overseas.
Tuesday they wore fur caps, with the ear flaps tied up, and wool olive drab utility uniforms.
The Big Four motor jet, flown by the Military Air Transport Service, left Rhein-Main Air
Force Base near Frankfurt Germany. About 10 1/2 hours earlier on its non-stop flight
to Texas. About one-third of the 2nd Armored troops will return to Bergstrom AFB
landing about 2 1/2 hours apart over the next ten days. Other planes will return to Connally
AFB Waco and Gray AFB, Kileen, near the 2nd Armored home station at Ft. Hood.
The outward trip of “Big-Lift” to Europe began Oct. 22 and lasted only 63 hours and 20
minutes. “It’s good to be back in Texas,” Sgt. 1-C Harrison Swartz said’ “It may be hot
and dusty here, but its home.”
The troops were asked to vote on how many wanted to eat a big steak dinner when they
arrived back at Fort Hood or instead be given a pass to see their wives and girl friends.
Only two voted for the steaks. Wives and children were not allowed to meet the men
at the air base. The men returning in the first plane included 60 scheduled to be discharged
from service son and 13 administrative personnel from division headquarters.
Maj. Gen. Edwin H. Burba, commander of the 2nd Armored will return Nov. 21, on the last
plane of the main movement. A small rear detachment of the division will remain behind
until mid-December to store and secure the tanks and other heavy equipment used in Germany.
“It was a very successful maneuver with very, very, high morale throughout,” Ware said.
After landing in Germany the 2nd Armored checked out and tested the storage tanks and guns
before waging a seven day mock nuclear-war against the 3rd Armored Division, which
already was in Germany. The 3rd Armored played the role of attacker. The 2nd Armored was
declared winner of the maneuver in the phase ending last Tuesday.
also see
Another Voice from Oconee County
August 21, 2012
Operation Big Lift 1963 - From Watkinsville, Through Ft Hood, Texas, to Germany
By Wendell Dawson, Editor, AVOC, Inc
http://www.avoc.info/info/article.php?article=4245

also see page 92-99
First: Breaking Generational Poverty By Lester Nuby Jr.


Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/Department of Defense/Joint Chiefs of Staff/JCS Central Files 1962-63/
NARA Record Number: 202-10002-10076
ITEMS TO BE DISCUSSED WITH THE SEC OF DEFENSE AT THEIR MEETING ON 4 NOV 1963
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=102&relPageId=2

Edited November 13, 2013 by Robert Howard