Why do some conspiracy theorists accept the X-rays and autopsy photos as genuine?

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

As brought to our attention by Jerrol Custer, moreover, the photos show JFK on his back with his head in a stirrup. IF there had been a gigantic hole in the location of the wound in the McClelland drawing, this would not have been possible.

 

The stirrup held the head up in the lateral-middle of the head. That is, to the left of the wound.

I value Jerrol Custer for his early statements, but not his commentary. He wasn't much of a thinker IMO.

 

 

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

The stirrup held the head up in the lateral-middle of the head. That is, to the left of the wound.

I value Jerrol Custer for his early statements, but not his commentary. He wasn't much of a thinker IMO.

 

 

Custer said that he would have to have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette to take the A-P x-ray. And that he couldn't and wouldn't have done that if the back of his head was missing. Keep in mind that the x-rays were taken with the brain still in the skull. He wasn't about to take an x-ray where the brain would be smushed onto the cassette. 

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

15 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Custer said that he would have to have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette to take the A-P x-ray.

 

Custer would have done whatever it took to take the A-P x-ray.

There was enough skull bone in the lateral-middle of the skull to hold the head on the x-ray cassette. Even had there not been, he simply would have set the skull down with the edge of the wound on the cassette. Though he certainly would have placed a towel on the cassette first so as to keep it clean.

What you report Custer saying isn't particularly surprising because he wasn't much of a thinker, as I said earlier. But there is absolutely no way he would have left without getting that A-P x-ray taken.

 

[Pat Speer]

29 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Custer would have done whatever it took to take the A-P x-ray.

There was enough skull bone in the lateral-middle of the skull to hold the head on the x-ray cassette. Even had there not been, he simply would have set the skull down with the edge of the wound on the cassette. Though he certainly would have placed a towel on the cassette first so as to keep it clean.

What you report Custer saying isn't particularly surprising because he wasn't much of a thinker, as I said earlier. But there is absolutely no way he would have left without getting that A-P x-ray taken.

 

To be clear, then, you believe the skull wound was restricted to the right side, and did not involve the middle of the back of the head, where the Mantik clique places the wound. 

Edited January 22 by Pat Speer

[Sandy Larsen]

5 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

To be clear, then, you believe the skull wound was restricted to the right side, and did not involve the middle of the back of the head, where the Mantik clique places the wound. 

 

That is my supposition, one that I don't feel strongly about.

Most of the hole was on the right side. I do feel strongly about that... because that is what most the Parkland professionals said.

 

[Greg Doudna]

Pat I put a comment at the top of my earlier on the gaping head wound, saying are right that the Parkland witnesses' is the same as that of Z313 and of the autopsists.

Edited January 22 by Greg Doudna

[Michael Griffith]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:51 PM, Keven Hofeling said:

Mr. Speer:

As an aside, I notice that in your "A Matter of Proportion" slide, you appear to be identifying the red spot that Michael Baden advised medical illustrator Ida Dox to enhance (resulting in her drawing it as a bullet hole) as a bullet entry. You don't accept the HSCA's upward movement of that wound as being accurate, do you?

To his credit, Pat rejects the bogus cowlick entry site (the red spot) and correctly argues that a bullet entered near the EOP. However, Pat cannot explain how an EOP bullet could have missed the cerebellum and the rear part of the right occipital lobe. Unless the gunman fired from a helicopter hovering above the TSBD, there is no way the bullet could have avoided smashing through the cerebellum, and of course a number of witnesses, including a neurosurgeon, saw substantial damage to the cerebellum. 

Pat is in this predicament because he won't even admit that the autopsy brain photos are clearly fraudulent. The preposterous brain photos show a virtually intact brain, a brain with a single long laceration on the right side and with no more than 1-2 ounces of tissue missing. They also show a virtually undamaged cerebellum, the only damage being a small sliver of tissue hanging down from the bottom of the cerebellum.

This is clearly not JFK's brain. For one thing, the skull x-rays show, as Dr. Fred Hodges noted, "a goodly portion" of the right brain missing. Dr. Mantik, Dr. Chesser, and Dr. Aguilar have confirmed this. Dr. Mantik confirmed it with optical density measurements. We also know that bits of JFK's brain were blown onto at least 16 surfaces. 

Let's read what the FBI's Robert Frazier said about the blood and tissue he found just on and in the limousine when he examined the car early in the morning on 11/23/63:

          We found blood and tissue all over the outside areas of the vehicle from the hood ornament, over the complete area of the hood, on the outside of the windshield, also on the inside surface of the windshield, and all over the entire exterior portion of the car, that is, the side rails down both sides of the car, and of course considerable quantities inside the car and on the trunk lid area. ("Shaw Trial Proceedings," 2/21-22/1969, volume 29, pp. 8-9, HSCA record number 180-10097-10181) 

Again, this was not counting the blood and brain matter that was splattered onto the follow-up car's front hood and windshield, onto Agent Kinney's clothes, onto the windshields of the two left-trailing police bikes, and onto police officers Hargis and Martin's clothes. 

Edited January 22 by Michael Griffith

[Paul Cummings]

4 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

To his credit, Pat rejects the bogus cowlick entry site (the red spot) and correctly argues that a bullet entered near the EOP. However, Pat cannot explain how an EOP bullet could have missed the cerebellum and the rear part of the right occipital lobe. Unless the gunman fired from a helicopter hovering above the TSBD, there is no way the bullet could have avoided smashing through the cerebellum, and of course a number of witnesses, including a neurosurgeon, saw substantial damage to the cerebellum. 

Pat is in this predicament because he won't even admit that the autopsy brain photos are clearly fraudulent. The preposterous brain photos show a virtually intact brain, a brain with a single long laceration on the right side and with no more than 1-2 ounces of tissue missing. They also show a virtually undamaged cerebellum, the only damage being a small sliver of tissue hanging down from the bottom of the cerebellum.

This is clearly not JFK's brain. For one thing, the skull x-rays show, as Dr. Fred Hodges noted, "a goodly portion" of the right brain missing. Dr. Mantik, Dr. Chesser, and Dr. Aguilar have confirmed this. Dr. Mantik confirmed it with optical density measurements. We also know that bits of JFK's brain were blown onto at least 16 surfaces. 

Let's read what the FBI's Robert Frazier said about the blood and tissue he found just on and in the limousine when he examined the car early in the morning on 11/23/63:

          We found blood and tissue all over the outside areas of the vehicle from the hood ornament, over the complete area of the hood, on the outside of the windshield, also on the inside surface of the windshield, and all over the entire exterior portion of the car, that is, the side rails down both sides of the car, and of course considerable quantities inside the car and on the trunk lid area. ("Shaw Trial Proceedings," 2/21-22/1969, volume 29, pp. 8-9, HSCA record number 180-10097-10181) 

Again, this was not counting the blood and brain matter that was splattered onto the follow-up car's front hood and windshield, onto Agent Kinney's clothes, onto the windshields of the two left-trailing police bikes, and onto police officers Hargis and Martin's clothes. 

Nicely stated Michael. Thank you.

[Michael Crane]

On 1/21/2024 at 3:47 PM, Pat Speer said:

Custer said that he would have to have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette to take the A-P x-ray. And that he couldn't and wouldn't have done that if the back of his head was missing. Keep in mind that the x-rays were taken with the brain still in the skull. He wasn't about to take an x-ray where the brain would be smushed onto the cassette. 

 

 

IIRC) Custer also said that the head wound was so large,that he could put two hands together inside it.

[Pat Speer]

5 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

IIRC) Custer also said that the head wound was so large,that he could put two hands together inside it.

Yes, this was the condition of the head after the scalp was peeled back and skull fell to the table. 

[Greg Doudna]

[]

Edited February 10 by Greg Doudna

[Keven Hofeling]

On 1/21/2024 at 4:47 PM, Pat Speer said:

Custer said that he would have to have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette to take the A-P x-ray. And that he couldn't and wouldn't have done that if the back of his head was missing. Keep in mind that the x-rays were taken with the brain still in the skull. He wasn't about to take an x-ray where the brain would be smushed onto the cassette. 

 

 

Mr. @Pat Speer, I regret to inform you that I must once again point out your misrepresentation of testimony to the members of this forum. You claimed that Jerrol Custer "couldn't and wouldn't" have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette to take the A-P X-ray if the back of his head was missing. This is, according to you, because the x-rays were taken with the brain still in the skull, so he wouldn't have taken such an x-ray as the brain would be "smushed onto the cassette" if he had done so. 

Below, I demonstrate your misrepresentations:

As you can see in the first segment of Custer's deposition testimony I have highlighted in bright yellow, Custer testified that he didn't even see the stirrup at the autopsy, and that the stirrup was not used during x-rays, but only when the body was being probed.

With regard to your claim that Custer "couldn't and wouldn't" have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette to take the A-P X-ray, in the second segment I have highlighted in light yellow we see that Custer placed a sheet over the film to collect any bodily fluids that might drain while he was taking the x-rays.

In the third pink-highlighted segment, when Jeremy Gunn questioned him about Autopsy Photos 42 and 43, Jerrol Custer confirmed that he had x-rayed the back of JFK's head and mentioned lifting the head just enough "to place the cassette underneath."

Furthermore, contrary to your claim that Custer "couldn't and wouldn't" have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette because the x-rays were taken while the brain was in the skull, so he wouldn't have taken such an x-ray as the brain would be "smushed onto the cassette" if he had done so, Custer consistently maintained throughout his deposition that there was no brain in the skull when he took the x-rays. Note that on page 89 of the deposition Custer states that the brain was missing from the skull at the time he took the initial set of x-rays, and indicates that he did not witness what was surely a pre-autopsy clandestine craniotomy:

Finally, despite the impression you gave of Jerrol Custer's ARRB deposition as uneventful and uncontroversial, the truth is that Custer recalled highly controversial and explosive events, including:

He mentioned seeing a mechanical device in the skull at the start of the autopsy; being told the body was at Walter Reed before being brought to Bethesda; witnessing Commander William Pitzer filming the autopsy; seeing more than one casket in the morgue; witnessing the Kennedy entourage arriving after the body had already been at Bethesda for over an hour; seeing interference with the autopsy from a four-star General and a plainclothesman in the gallery; and, many indications that Kennedy had been shot from the front.

In the deposition, Custer's memories seem to overlap, such as when, as follows, he relates his memories of the mechanical device in JFK's skull, being told by two separate duty officers that JFK's body had been at the Walter Reed compound before arriving at Bethesda, and recalling having seen Commander William Pitzer filming the autopsy:

Your reliance on the Jerrol Custer deposition is nothing short of an act of self-sabotage. It's astonishing that you would stake your project by misrepresenting it the way that you have. One would expect you to steer researchers away from this deposition like it's the plague, yet you seem to be actively promoting it as if it's an uncontroversial pillar supporting your skewed version of reality, which a simple reading reveals that it is not. Are you so desperate to push your agenda that you're willing to sacrifice your credibility?

Or perhaps that is why you expended your "credibility" to assure fellow researchers that it is uncontroversial and supports your twisted version of reality, hoping to channel them toward more prosperous subjects for you, such as the Dallas physicians, who many years later, renounced their initial memories when confronted with the fraudulent autopsy photographs, and feared for their professional reputations.

The foundation of your entire project rests on these feeble sands of misinformation, but rest assured, your fellow researchers will soon see through this charade. It's only a matter of time before the shaky ground you've built upon crumbles beneath you.

 

Edited January 25 by Keven Hofeling

[Pat Speer]

8 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said:

Mr. @Pat Speer, I regret to inform you that I must once again point out your misrepresentation of testimony to the members of this forum. You claimed that Jerrol Custer "couldn't and wouldn't" have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette to take the A-P X-ray if the back of his head was missing. This is, according to you, because the x-rays were taken with the brain still in the skull, so he wouldn't have taken such an x-ray as the brain would be "smushed onto the cassette" if he had done so. 

Below, I demonstrate your misrepresentations:

As you can see in the first segment of Custer's deposition testimony I have highlighted in bright yellow, Custer testified that he didn't even see the stirrup at the autopsy, and that the stirrup was not used during x-rays, but only when the body was being probed.

With regard to your claim that Custer "couldn't and wouldn't" have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette to take the A-P X-ray, in the second segment I have highlighted in light yellow we see that Custer placed a sheet over the film to collect any bodily fluids that might drain while he was taking the x-rays.

In the third pink-highlighted segment, when Jeremy Gunn questioned Autopsy Photos 42 and 43, Jerrol Custer confirmed that he had x-rayed the back of JFK's head and mentioned lifting the head just enough "to place the cassette underneath."

Furthermore, contrary to your claim that Custer "couldn't and wouldn't" have placed the back of JFK's head on the x-ray cassette because the x-rays were taken while the brain was in the skull, so he wouldn't have taken such an x-ray as the brain would be "smushed onto the cassette" if he had done so, Custer consistently maintained throughout his deposition that there was no brain in the skull when he took the x-rays. Note that on page 89 of the deposition Custer states that the brain was missing from the skull at the time he took the initial set of x-rays, and indicates that he did not witness what was surely a pre-autopsy clandestine craniotomy:

Finally, despite the impression you gave of Jerrol Custer's ARRB deposition as uneventful and uncontroversial, the truth is that Custer recalled highly controversial and explosive events, including:

He mentioned seeing a mechanical device in the skull at the start of the autopsy; being told the body was at Walter Reed before being brought to Bethesda; witnessing Commander William Pitzer filming the autopsy; seeing more than one casket in the morgue; witnessing the Kennedy entourage arriving after the body had already been at Bethesda for over an hour; seeing interference with the autopsy from a four-star General and a plainclothesman in the gallery; and, many indications that Kennedy had been shot from the front.

In the deposition, Custer's memories seem to overlap, such as when, as follows, he relates his memories of the mechanical device in JFK's skull, being told by two separate duty officers that JFK's body had been at the Walter Reed compound before arriving at Bethesda, and recalling having seen Commander William Pitzer filming the autopsy:

Your reliance on the Jerrol Custer deposition is nothing short of an act of self-sabotage. It's astonishing that you would stake your project by misrepresenting it the way that you have. One would expect you to steer researchers away from this deposition like it's the plague, yet you seem to be actively promoting it as if it's an uncontroversial pillar supporting your skewed version of reality, which a simple reading reveals that it is not. Are you so desperate to push your agenda that you're willing to sacrifice your credibility?

Or perhaps that is why you expended your "credibility" to assure fellow researchers that it is uncontroversial and supports your twisted version of reality, hoping to channel them toward more prosperous subjects for you, such as the Dallas physicians, who many years later, renounced their initial memories when confronted with the fraudulent autopsy photographs, and feared for their professional reputations.

The foundation of your entire project rests on these feeble sands of misinformation, but rest assured, your fellow researchers will soon see through this charade. It's only a matter of time before the shaky ground you've built upon crumbles beneath you.

 

Sadly, you have no idea what you are talking about. "The foundation of my entire project?" What a laugh!

 

[Chris Davidson]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:30 AM, Chris Davidson said:

The "Shell" game created by the WC and carried on by the HSCA. (Liaison- Gerald Ford) imo

[Keven Hofeling]

2 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Sadly, you have no idea what you are talking about. "The foundation of my entire project?" What a laugh!

 

Prove it.