Benjamin Cole Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 The always circumspect and adroit Larry Hancock performs yeoman service in this Ochelli segment, clarifying a lot of words that are sometimes tossed around. Here is Hancock's written intro, but listen in as well. ---30--- "One of the terms that shows up frequently in regard to the CIA and the JFK assassination is the word ‘asset’. In a way that’s good because it at least provides a bit of differentiation – in contrast to someone simply being described as ‘working for the CIA’. Or perhaps being a ‘source’, a ‘paid employee’, a ‘spy’ or some other series of words implying that an individual was knowingly cooperating with the Agency, providing information or actually being given tasks or assignments. Using the right word is very important in characterizing a relationship between and individual since all the words above can mean very different things – and in some instances relationships were and can be either ‘witting’ or ‘unwitting’. Indeed the CIA did not only designate relationships as witting/unwitting, but had separate sets of files and paperwork for each. Beyond that, given operational concerns, an individual might even be treated as unwitting or witting over the course of time or by different groups within the agency itself. As an example, a general 201 file (created on basically anyone coming to the CIA’s attention) might not have all the details found within separate files on that same individual held in different areas. If all that sounds complex and confusing, its supposed to because the overriding concern was always security and the need to prevent Agency activities from being penetrated or exposed. Standard practice for the bureaucracy inherent in any intelligence agency. My friend David Boylan has spent the past few years exploring the types of documents and paperwork associated with CIA sources and assets, examining actual examples of the paperwork for people in those roles. Its often dull work but if you pay close attention to document routing, to who is copied on what, to who signs off on what, and what types of background checks and even polygraph testing (referred to as ‘fluttering’) are involved you can reverse engineer the process and the paperwork that should exist for a given type of relationship. More importantly you can trace it all the way though what is required to move someone into being a source and on to what gains them provisional operational approval and then actual operational approval for specific tasks or missions. David and I joined Chuck Ochelli last week to discuss the complexities of such things and if you are interested in a more detailed discussion you can find it at the link below: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph McBride Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) Looking forward to your new book, Larry! You're a fine, dedicated scholar. Edited September 6 by Joseph McBride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Thanks Joe, much appreciated. I want to be up front with everyone and say that the book does tackle a lot of what might be considered 'sacred cows' in JFK research and we do take a contrarian position on some of them - but we have worked really hard to make it balanced so in virtually all those instances we have included the alternative views and put in citations or links to them so people have the information at hand to dig into those questions for themselves. Needless to say trying to do something close to history with the WC on one side and the decades of research, theories and books on the other comes close to the definition of risky business. Of course with that in mind, just to make life more challenging, we decided to also offer a totally alternative view of what Oswald was all about on November 22. - if you are going to be out on the a limb you might was well start it swinging while you are there...grin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said: - if you are going to be out on the a limb you might was well start it swinging while you are there...grin Haha, love it! I still have a long way to go in reading JFKA books, etc. But it seems to me there are not many books out there that include alternatives. I feel it here on the EF forum some times as well, some have the attitude of "my way or the highway", even refusing to read alternatives (by blocking certain users, etc.). I´m always thinking to myself that these guys are like preaching a religion on a secluded island, as if the rest doesn´t exist. IMO there should always be a minimum of respect for other theories... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Balch Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 3 hours ago, Larry Hancock said: Thanks Joe, much appreciated. I want to be up front with everyone and say that the book does tackle a lot of what might be considered 'sacred cows' in JFK research and we do take a contrarian position on some of them - but we have worked really hard to make it balanced so in virtually all those instances we have included the alternative views and put in citations or links to them so people have the information at hand to dig into those questions for themselves. Needless to say trying to do something close to history with the WC on one side and the decades of research, theories and books on the other comes close to the definition of risky business. Of course with that in mind, just to make life more challenging, we decided to also offer a totally alternative view of what Oswald was all about on November 22. - if you are going to be out on the a limb you might was well start it swinging while you are there...grin Sacred cows tend to have nine lives (at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Actually I suspect that sacred cows are effectively eternal. I don't expect to BBQ or Chicken Fry or even brand any of them....at best it might be more more like running a few more head into the pen. And yes, I did grow up 'working' cattle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 6 hours ago, Larry Hancock said: Actually I suspect that sacred cows are effectively eternal. I don't expect to BBQ or Chicken Fry or even brand any of them....at best it might be more more like running a few more head into the pen. And yes, I did grow up 'working' cattle... Whatever your views, I hope they receive a collegial response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Thanks Ben, my hope is that we have set out point/counterpoint in a fashion that allows new readers that get really interested to dig in and make their own calls in various areas. As I've said here many times my practice is never to argue points or try to change anyone's minds....if my information or take on something makes sense to someone great, but I have never been 'evangelical' in the sense of promoting (or defending) my work. I'm pretty sure David feels the same way. After all it probably can't be worse than a review of one of my books which said it was very important and accurate but "turgid"....my wife told me that was actually not a compliment...grin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 Ok... now I just have to ask : what the heck is "turgid"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 The best I could tell in the context of the review is that the reviewer thought there was too much detail being presented, and that the dialog could have been moved along faster without it. Sort of like a river being took sluggish or slow flowing. Sort of a risk for anyone who attempts to write history I suppose. Too little detail and it looks like you just made it up, too much and its too slow moving - turgid. My problem is that almost everything I write about in terms of history is pretty controversial so I feel compelled to towards detail (also explaining the vast number of footnotes in my books....over 450 in The Oswald Puzzle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 4 hours ago, Jean Ceulemans said: Ok... now I just have to ask : what the heck is "turgid"?? I guess I've always mispronounced and misspelled it if I've ever used it in a sentence. I thought it was turdgid. As in my toilet's backed up. It's turdgid. Thank goodness for auto correct, most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Marshall Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 larry-title of new book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 Hi Evan, the title is The Oswald Puzzle. It should be published early next year; I would imagine it will show up on Amazon for pre-order by November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 (edited) On 9/6/2024 at 11:55 AM, Larry Hancock said: And yes, I did grow up 'working' cattle... So, you made cute little yearling bulls into steers? Cut their ears, branded . . . Steak is my favorite food, though It's too expensive for regular consumption anymore. A lot more ground beef these days. Edited September 8 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 Well I'm not sure I ever thought of them as 'cute' but yes to that, and yes on the branding. That was replaced by notching and ear tags a bit after my hands on time with the cattle. Now they 'band' most of the bull calves for that purpose, but mountain oysters are still a regular at local fund raisers. As for our meat, we always had the old cattle butchered for ourselves so hamburger was the name of the game even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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