Joe Bauer Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 (edited) I've stated this conundrum before. Could the "majority" of Americans ever accept the proposition ( if proven true ) that any members of highest power rank "in our own government" ( political, military, wealth, media, agency, etc.) actually overtly or tacitly planned or even just went along with the 1963 killing of our own President ( and it's cover-up ) in a way that called on them to deal with this sickening corruption reality head-on honestly, responsibly, thoroughly and courageously? Or , does Jack Nicholson's Colonel Nathan Jessep's defiant shout out in the film "A Few Good Men" more aptly apply..."You Can't Handle The Truth!" ? I equate this to the ET phenomenon. Either subject, if proven as truth, would force such dynamic changes in our perceptions of everyday reality all around us it might be psychologically traumatizing to the majority of people, to a destabilizing degree. Think of the public outrage if we were finally and provenly informed the JFKA was an inside job? Informed that our highest levels of government were that corrupted. And a corruption unaddressed for the next 60 years? I think some but not most people would react with dramatic action in demanding unprecedent major changes in every aspect and area of our federal governing apparatus - even now! And a number of top figures in the areas of federal governing and accompanying influence power ( the Military - Industrial Complex- even media ) I mentioned from that time, and that were at all suspect in the grand scheme of allowing the JFKA to go forward ( probably with nothing more than an approving nod ) and who also enabled the cover-up, would become known as evil perpetrators of what we would probably refer to as an American Democracy "Dark Ages." A dark age of corruption. Where corruption was so rampant and entrenched in the American way of life all the way to the top tier of our federal government...we could not even imagine how much it truly was. Many here on this forum already believe this broad, highest power level corruption was the reality of the day in JFK times. They have accepted such a paradigm shift. But the great majority of Americans today and for many years to come will not and cannot imo. To do so would require ( even demand ) unprecedented, extremely gut-wrenching and even scary responsibilities of confronting and corrective citizen action toward our highest level of governance. An unsettling shaking up of our entire perception of our American constitutional foundation government like never before. A task so heavy in it's life changing gravity and import most would not want to take it on. With an internal coup scenario like the one above, I assume even the Joint Chiefs ( at least one or two of them ) would have had to be informed of the coup and given their silent nod or even just a silence approval for such a drastic action to remove a sitting President to be implemented imo. I have always wondered why our entire military structure with their massive intelligence gathering machinery and capabilities didn't immediately go into a full blown - all out mode of investigation of an event ( the murder of their Commander In Chief ) that was of an "act of war" level of threatening importance! They did not. Instead, they immediately left this to our FBI and the local police in Dallas? At least it appeared that way to an admittedly poorly informed average Joe American citizen like myself. Were they told ( and by whom is the big question ) this "act of war" important event was simply the doings of one mixed up and pitifully poor soul nobody who just got improbably lucky in taking out our head of state with the cheapest, least accurate old rifle around, and who then simply walked out of the TXSBD building to catch a city bus and then taxi to his $8 ( or $12? ) a week room in a low rent boarding house miles away. And to simply stand down? I would think however, our military with it's massive intelligence gathering capabilities and considering the "act of war" level seriousness of the event, would not have abrogated their highest military investigative responsibilities so quickly and so easily accepted the simple "little nut case guy who got lucky" LBJ and Hoover line they and the Dallas PD were promoting. Can the majority of Americans ever accept the "our own government did it " paradigm shift reality? Even decades from now? Sadly, I don't think so. A corrective paradigm change will probably only about over a long period of time through just a gradual dying out of nefarious power structures and a hundred years of generational change ... imo anyways. Edited October 17 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 I think there is some truth to this Joe. And that denial is enforced by the MSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 11 hours ago, Joe Bauer said: I've stated this conundrum before. Could the "majority" of Americans ever accept the proposition ( if proven true ) that any members of highest power rank "in our own government" ( political, military, wealth, media, agency, etc.) actually overtly or tacitly planned or even just went along with the 1963 killing of our own President ( and it's cover-up ) in a way that called on them to deal with this sickening corruption reality head-on honestly, responsibly, thoroughly and courageously? Or would Colonel Nathan Jessep's defiant shout out in the film "A Few Good Men" more aptly apply..."You Can't Handle The Truth!" ? I equate this to the ET phenomenon. Either subject, if proven as truth, would force such dynamic changes in our perceptions of everyday reality all around us it might be psychologically traumatizing to the majority of people, to a destabilizing degree. Think of the public outrage if we were finally and provenly informed the JFKA was an inside job? Informed that out highest level of government was that corrupted. And unaddressed for the next 60 years? I think some but not all people would react with dramatic action in demanding unprecedent major changes in every aspect and area of our federal governing apparatus - even now! And a huge number of top figures in the areas of federal governing and accompanying influence power ( the Military - Industrial Complex- even media ) I mentioned from that time, and that were at all suspect in the grand scheme of allowing the JFKA to go forward ( probably with nothing more than an approving nod ) and who also enabled the cover-up, would become known as evil perpetrators of what we would probably refer to as a truly Machiavellian American Democracy "Dark Ages." Where corruption was so rampant and entrenched in the American way of life all the way to the top tier of our federal government...we could not even imagine how much it truly was. Many here on this forum believe this broad, highest power level corruption was the reality of the day in JFK times. They are willing to accept such a paradigm shift. But the great majority of Americans today and for many years to come will not and cannot imo. To do so would require ( even demand ) unprecedented, extremely gut-wrenching and even scary responsibilities of confronting and corrective citizen action toward our highest level of governance they simply would not want to take on. With an internal coup scenario like the one above, even the Joint Chiefs ( at least one or two of them ) would have had to be informed of the coup and given their silent nod or even just a silence approval for such a drastic action to remove a sitting President to be implemented imo. I have always wondered why our entire military structure with their massive intelligence gathering machinery and capabilities didn't immediately go into a full blown - all out mode of investigation of an event ( the murder of their Commander In Chief ) that was of an "act of war" level of importance! They did not. Instead, they immediately left this to our FBI and the local police in Dallas? At least it appeared that way to just an admittedly poorly informed average Joe American citizen like myself. Were they told ( by whom is the big question ) this "act of war" important event was simply the doings of one mixed up and pitifully poor soul nobody who just got improbably lucky in taking out our head of state with the cheapest, least accurate old rifle around, and who then simply walked out of the TXSBD building to catch a city bus and then taxi to his $8 ( or $12? ) a week room in a low rent boarding house miles away. And simply stood down? I would think however, our military with it's massive intelligence gathering capabilities and concerning the "act of war" level seriousness of the event, would not have abrogated their highest military attack concern so quickly and easily and accepted the simple "little nut case guy who got lucky" LBJ and Hoover line they and the Dallas PD were promoting. Can the majority of Americans ever accept the "our own government did it " paradigm shift reality? Even decades from now? Sadly, I don't think so. A corrective paradigm change would have to come about over a long period of time through just a gradual dying out of nefarious power structures and a hundred years of generational change...again imo anyways. I think we can agree on most of this. But I would add a few points. The first being that it's two-way street. IF clear-cut information came out proving the KGB was behind the hit, the vast majority of JFK researchers would be equally unlikely to accept this truth, IMO, as those who currently resist the evidence for conspiracy, and would instead insist the evidence was fake, no matter how clear-cut and substantial. And the second being that the military only recognizes one commander-in-chief at a time, and would absolutely positively NOT investigate the case to any real extent unless the new President, LBJ, asked them to do so. One of the things I noted and reported on my website is that the Voice of America--America's propaganda network broadcast behind the Iron Curtain in 1963--initially reported that the assassination took place in a hotbed of rightwing zealotry--but that these reports were quickly stifled--before Oswald was even charged with the crime. Well, this suggests to me that word came from the new administration within an hour or two--that the Voice of America and other such stations were not to report the truth...if the truth could be used against us by our enemies. So you can rest assured a similar order went out to the military--that this was a political thing, and that it was best to step aside and let the new Administration handle it. Edited October 15 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted October 15 Author Share Posted October 15 1 hour ago, Pat Speer said: One of the things I noted and reported on my website is that the Voice of America--America's propaganda network broadcast behind the Iron Curtain in 1963--initially reported that the assassination took placed in a hotbed of rightwing zealotry--but that these reports were quickly stifled--before Oswald was even charged with the crime. Well, this suggests to me that word came from the new administration within an hour or two--that Air America and other such stations were not to report the truth...if the truth could be used against us by our enemies. So you can rest assured a similar order went out to the military--that this was a political thing, and that it was best to step aside and let the new Administration handle it. So the cover-up was to stop the world from knowing the truth that the JFKA was a domestic operation? Fearing that if the world believed this...their faith and trust in American ideals global leadership would have been severely diminished to the point of enhancing less negative sympathies toward our ideological adversaries? Yes? No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 8 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said: So the cover-up was to stop the world from knowing the truth that the JFKA was a domestic operation? Fearing that if the world believed this...their faith and trust in American ideals global leadership would have been severely diminished to the point of enhancing less negative sympathies toward our ideological adversaries? Yes? No? Imagine the impact if it was revealed the Deep State" had maneuvered four postwar presidents out of office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted October 15 Author Share Posted October 15 3 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: Imagine the impact if it was revealed the Deep State" had maneuvered four postwar presidents out of office. And "into" office. Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 50 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said: And "into" office. Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr. ? I think you are right. Biden too. The senior Bush, of course, was drenched in CIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 8 hours ago, Joe Bauer said: Could the "majority" of Americans ever accept the proposition ( if proven true ) that any members of highest power rank "in our own government" ( political, military, wealth, media, agency, etc.) actually overtly or tacitly planned or even just went along with the 1963 killing of our own President ( and it's cover-up ) in a way that called on them to deal with this sickening corruption reality head-on honestly, responsibly, thoroughly and courageously? Ever accept? It depends on the time frame. At the time it would have been a massive shock. The U.S. was on a roll, controlled at least a quarter of the world's resources and was never invaded in WW2. I think you and I having lived through this Joe, at an age to fathom it, we know it would have been a massive reset! Joe: Either subject, if proven as truth, would force such dynamic changes in our perceptions of everyday reality all around us it might be psychologically traumatizing to the majority of people, to a destabilizing degree. But now, I can't go with you there Joe. With the average age of an American being 38 now. Learning that a group within the U.S. government killed JFK now would have no real practical effect on the everyday life. As I said more recently, not 1% of the population could tell you who Ruth Paine is, and with so little knowledge, any polls , though they are interesting to see fluctuations, don't at all reflect any groundswell of public opinion with the current electorate, outside of older people who lived through it. I have seen a lot of wishful dreaming here that such a revelation would bring on a World Peace, But the world major superpower is not going to dismantle their intelligence, or their Defense, particularly now unfortunately. Since nobody in the present government was there in the 60's. Why would there be anything other than probably very innocent bureaucrats being fired and a rearrangement of the deck chair seats? But if a comparable event was to happen now, and say elements within the government were positively found to say murder Trump. With the current polemics there are a lot of people who wouldn't find that shocking at all. And all you have to do is go to other places in this forum , where people are making these accusations about the 2 current assassination attempts on Trump even though both the assailants were crazies, who were Republicans. But if something like that were to happen now. It would be much more destabilizing than the JFKA in 1963! JFK was not a controversial figure with high negative ratings like Trump. And we would probably being going through a period of great civil strife. Of course with the current social media climate where nobody seems to know what the truth is anymore. This civil strife could happen even if the government wasn't involved at all. Edited October 15 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted October 15 Author Share Posted October 15 (edited) If the truth was that the plot was domestic in origin and implementation and this had to be falsely misrepresented and covered up officially as simply the crazed act of a lone nut who just got incredibly lucky with the cheapest rifle on the market and on a minimum wage, bus taking, $8 a week boarding room shooting and escape plan budget to ensure national and even international trust and stability ... the perpetrators ( if involved in the following crime as well) sure took a wildly contrary risk in the killing of Oswald right inside the Dallas police department building just two days later. Oswald's killing ( seen live on TV nationally and seconds or minutes later non-live TV here and internationally by hundreds of millions ) did the opposite. Mistrust of our government by all these people exploded to heights never before seen in American history. With the Civil War and killing of Lincoln being the only possible equivalent exception. The most important criminal suspect in American history gunned down just 48 hours after his supposed involvement in the crime of two centuries? And inside of a Police Department building? By an armed local strip joint operator? Who somehow defeated a small army of security to get within one foot of Oswald and went temporarily insane in his paranoia driven mind to prove Jews had guts? To this day...the killing of Oswald in Dallas PD custody under almost impossibly improbable circumstances created a national and even international mistrust of our government that has never been adequately quantified imo. The killing of JFK in Dealey Plaza, in all it's horrific brutality, didn't trigger this mistrust like the Oswald killing by Jack Ruby. Why, because the public did not see it happen right in front of their eyes. The public reaction was greatly mostly sad shock and confusion. I was extremely observant of the news reports being shown on TV and in every newspaper the day of the JFKA and next day and I recall very little talk about government mistrust. However, when Ruby whacked Oswald is when everyone began entertaining this contemplation of serious suspicion and mistrust. A mistrust that exist even today although greatly dissipated through generational apathy. Like tens of millions of other Americans, the second I saw Ruby shoot Oswald on live TV, my first gut instinct thought and feeling was total suspicion. How could anyone "not" feel this under the circumstances we all soon became aware of regards the movement of Oswald? Yet, the official finding of Jack Ruby's access and motives that morning was also sealed and packaged as just another lone nut who also got improbably lucky in changing the course of history. Edited October 16 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted October 15 Author Share Posted October 15 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: But now, I can't go with you there Joe. With the average age of an American being 38 now. Learning that a group within the U.S. government killed JFK now would have no real practical effect on the everyday life. As I said more recently, not 1% of the population could tell you who Ruth Paine is, and with so little knowledge, any polls , though they are interesting to see fluctuations, don't at all reflect any groundswell of public opinion with the current electorate, outside of older people who lived through it. Kirk, I think a revelation such as I postulate would have a greater effect on today's 3rd and fourth generation citizens than you believe. The history they have been taught about those times would have to be re-written and in such an extreme alternate reality way it would be paradigm changing. I could imagine students reading a new JFKA historical perspective so drastically different than the last 60 years of official academia teaching saying..."you've got to be kidding me!" "Wow...we were lied to all that time?" The new history lesson would be one of being made aware of the dangers and consequences of unchecked corruption beyond our imagination and successfully hidden from us all, and the need for much more vigilance in preventing it's re-occurrence. Edited October 15 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said: So the cover-up was to stop the world from knowing the truth that the JFKA was a domestic operation? Fearing that if the world believed this...their faith and trust in American ideals global leadership would have been severely diminished to the point of enhancing less negative sympathies toward our ideological adversaries? Yes? No? I think that in the world of the big boys truth is irrelevant. It is public perception that matters instead. IOW, I fully believe LBJ and the powers that be would have covered up the assassination of JFK even if they had nothing to do with it, as long as they had the remotest fear it would blow back on them. I would include within this "big boys" mindset the FBI, the CIA, the right wing, the mafia, and even the left wing. "We are BIG people--Oswald is a little person. Screw him. It's better to let him go down for this than stir the hornet's nest and see who's actually responsible." I think, moreover, some of the captains of media willingly went along with this. I mean, think about it, when you're a BIG person, you can see over the heads of the rabble, and see what's really important. If your objective is fighting communism, you can justify looking the other way once it becomes probable the communists weren't behind it, because an investigation into who was really behind it might distract the nation from Vietnam and Cuba. And similarly, if your objective is civil rights, you can justify looking the other way because an investigation into who was really responsible might lead to Johnson's downfall, and the ascension of someone less sympathetic to civil rights. I have been told numerous times that I am naive for not believing there's a big baddie behind it all. When the reverse is true. I think human nature and the nature of power makes an honest search for truth nearly impossible, and undesirable to the powers that be, big baddie or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) Can't handle it as a body politic. Yet, Joe, bring up the JFKA in private conversation and people will almost unfailingly make a comment that indicates they accept a conspiracy, with very few words exchanged. Makes you speculate on what mass reaction would be to any decisive media reporting. Would the herd move if pushed, or would they just ignore the effort to move them? I have to start checking people's private reactions to 9/11. I told my physician I was working on a novel about the intelligence community ahead of 9/11, and the young man flinched. I said it just as written here, surprising him when he asked about my senior citizen hobbies. Edited October 15 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted October 15 Author Share Posted October 15 (edited) The JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations truth controversy subject has always been a stressful psychological burden for the great majority of Americans. Both when they happened and even still now 56 to 61 years later. It's an extremely unpleasant and unsettling core eating trust issue that keeps recurring from time to time like a bad nightmare dream that just never quite goes away. For most people, it's easier to just pretend the issue just doesn't exist or never happened. Or, that it will all just eventually go away if we simply never talk about it. In some ways that mind set does make it go away...and it's not totally unhealthy human nature to adopt such to just get on with one's life and the daily responsibilities of providing for the basics of living...without the added psychological stress. However, the killing of the Kennedy's and King was as traumatic to our societal consciousness as major wars ( the Civil War through Viet Nam ), the great depression, the great flu. And there has definitely been a Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome type anxiety born out of those three killing events that has afflicted us ever since imo. An anxiety of mistrust. Clearly made worse by the suspicion that the real truth behind the killings is much more nefarious and sinister than the official findings. Undealt with trauma can cause anxiety and neurotic behavior. History of Neurosis Neurotic means you’re afflicted by neurosis, a word that has been in use since the 1700s to describe mental, emotional, or physical reactions that are drastic and irrational. At its root, a neurotic behavior is an automatic, unconscious effort to manage deep anxiety. In 1980, the American Psychiatric Association removed the term neurosis from its diagnostic manual as part of a revamp to standardize the criteria for mental illnesses. Today, neurosis is not a stand-alone mental condition. Instead, doctors most often put its symptoms in the same category as anxiety disorder. In other words, what used to be called neurosis now falls under the umbrella of anxiety. Edited October 15 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 4 hours ago, Pat Speer said: 4 hours ago, Pat Speer said: I think that in the world of the big boys truth is irrelevant. It is public perception that matters instead. IOW, I fully believe LBJ and the powers that be would have covered up the assassination of JFK even if they had nothing to do with it, as long as they had the remotest fear it would blow back on them. I would include within this "big boys" mindset the FBI, the CIA, the right wing, the mafia, and even the left wing. "We are BIG people--Oswald is a little person. Screw him. It's better to let him go down for this than stir the hornet's nest and see who's actually responsible." I think, moreover, some of the captains of media willingly went along with this. I mean, think about it, when you're a BIG person, you can see over the heads of the rabble, and see what's really important. If your objective is fighting communism, you can justify looking the other way once it becomes probable the communists weren't behind it, because an investigation into who was really behind it might distract the nation from Vietnam and Cuba. And similarly, if your objective is civil rights, you can justify looking the other way because an investigation into who was really responsible might lead to Johnson's downfall, and the ascension of someone less sympathetic to civil rights. I have been told numerous times that I am naive for not believing there's a big baddie behind it all. When the reverse is true. I think human nature and the nature of power makes an honest search for truth nearly impossible, and undesirable to the powers that be, big baddie or no. I do think Pat is largely correct here. It was covered up to preserve the status quo* and keep the trains running on time. 4 hours ago, Pat Speer said: I think human nature and the nature of power makes an honest search for truth nearly impossible, and undesirable to the powers that be, big baddie or no. I think this is where I might think Pat goes too far. I think all situations are different with different variables and the ultimate truth could surface in a given situation, but not the JFKA. What kills me is a situation like what happened in CV -19 where people were saying that it was all a government conspiracy to reign in control of the masses and systematically take away their rights. As if the masses were getting so out of control and extreme measures were necessary!! I don't know what world that would be in! The biggest movement I see over the last 40 years has been the marginalization of the middle classes which essentially has been pulled off with only a few tweaks and has become the status quo for decades before the middle class scarcely realized it. Why would you mess with a such a great success? It's a pretty smooth machine. There is no need for conspicuous heavy handedness. The biggest fear is a revolt of government. In the U.S. every 4 years, it's sort of a dry hope for divided government. *You can even see that pull to the status quo here on the forum. There's sort of a hierarchy of sacred cow theories, sacred cow conspiracy superheroes and superhero authors. Then there's sort of a JFKA conspiracy info "consumer drone class". The drone class won't in any way challenge the research of any super hero authors to the point in some cases to even ask them what they believe! Then in turn, the authors develop a hubris that they don't feel they have to answer any questions about their research and the hope of a dynamic dialog becomes a quagmire. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: I do think Pat is largely correct here. It was covered up to preserve the status quo* and keep the trains running on time. I think this is where I might think Pat goes too far. I think all situations are different with different variables and the ultimate truth could surface in a given situation, but not the JFKA. What kills me is a situation like what happened in CV -19 where people were saying that it was all a government conspiracy to reign in control of the masses and systematically take away their rights. As if the masses were getting so out of control and extreme measures were necessary!! I don't know what world that would be in! The biggest movement I see over the last 40 years has been the marginalization of the middle classes which essentially has been pulled off with only a few tweaks and has become the status quo for decades before the middle class scarcely realized it. Why would you mess with a such a great success? It's a pretty smooth machine. There is no need for conspicuous heavy handedness. The biggest fear is a revolt of government. In the U.S. every 4 years, it's sort of a dry hope for divided government. *You can even see that pull to the status quo here on the forum. There's sort of a hierarchy of sacred cow theories, sacred cow conspiracy superheroes and superhero authors. Then there's sort of a JFKA conspiracy info "consumer drone class". The drone class won't in any way challenge the research of any super hero authors to the point in some cases to even ask them what they believe! Then in turn, the authors develop a hubris that they don't feel they have to answer any questions about their research and the hope of a dynamic dialog becomes a quagmire. JMO I wrote: I think human nature and the nature of power makes an honest search for truth nearly impossible, and undesirable to the powers that be, big baddie or no. Kirk responded: I think this is where I might think Pat goes too far. I think all situations are different with different variables and the ultimate truth could surface in a given situation, but not the JFKA. I agree that my statement goes too far. What I meant to say was human nature and the nature of power makes an honest search for truth BY A GOVERNMENT AGENCY OR COMMITTEE nearly impossible, and undesirable to the powers that be, big baddie or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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