Roger Craig

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Could this be the right one? I see captions.

Garrison:

Interesting.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Denis Morissette said:

I think you're imagining these men looking at the rifle wondering about it. It's only your imagination. You were not there, you don't know what they were saying or doing.

 

Denis,

I've said a number of times in this thread that I haven't seen the DCA film that Garrison described. I only paraphrased the way Garrison described it. But if you want to say it was Garrison's imagination, be my guest. Even though you haven't seen the correct DCA film either.

 

[Denis Morissette]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Denis,

I've said a number of times in this thread that I haven't seen the DCA film that Garrison described. I only paraphrased the way Garrison described it. But if you want to say it was Garrison's imagination, be my guest. Even though you haven't seen the correct DCA film either.

 

You don't even know for a fact that there is another DCA film. That's ridiculous.

[Denis Morissette]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Denis,

I've said a number of times in this thread that I haven't seen the DCA film that Garrison described. I only paraphrased the way Garrison described it. But if you want to say it was Garrison's imagination, be my guest. Even though you haven't seen the correct DCA film either.

 

What do you think the officers gathering are looking at?

[Denis Morissette]

So far: 

1) Larsen says that Roger Craig said he saw them bring the roof rifle down.

So far, nobody has proven Craig said that. Anyone? 

2) Larsen says Garrison saw a version of the DCA film showing the rifle being brought down the fire escape.

So far, nobody has confirmed this. Nobody seems interested the college Larsen claims that they have that film. CTers, it is your chance to shine, receive the applauds and congratulations! Contact that college and ask for a copy of that film? Anyone?

[Denis Morissette]

In his book, Garrison also claims that there was a photo showing Oswald with Ferrie and Shaw. It turned out to be a lie. Or was there another photo that only Garrison saw? Or was the photo altered with different people's heads like the BYPs?

[Sandy Larsen]

15 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

You don't even know for a fact that there is another DCA film. That's ridiculous.

 

I'm just repeating what some other researcher reported many years ago. Multiple films could explain why the DCA film we have in hand doesn't show what Garrison reported.

Though it has occurred to me that perhaps at some point Garrison saw the whole Mentesana film, before it was cut to a very short clip by DCA. Perhaps he saw the DCA film first, and from there sought out the full Mentesana film to get a fuller picture of what was going on.

That's just speculation of course. But there's gotta be some explanation for Garrison's account of the film not matching the film we have.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

21 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

What do you think the officers gathering are looking at?

 

Personally I wouldn't guess they were looking at the gun.

But I haven't seen the film Garrison reported on.

 

[Denis Morissette]

4 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I'm just repeating what some other researcher reported many years ago. Multiple films could explain why the DCA film we have in hand doesn't show what Garrison reported.

Though it has occurred to me that perhaps at some point Garrison saw the whole Mentesana film, before it was cut to a very short clip by DCA. Perhaps he saw the DCA film first, and from there sought out the full Mentesana film to get a fuller picture of what was going on.

That's just speculation of course. But there's gotta be some explanation for Garrison's account of the film not matching the film we have.

 

Yes, there's gotta be some explanation. I can give you two: He lied or misremembered. 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

45 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

So far: 

1) Larsen says that Roger Craig said he saw them bring the roof rifle down.

So far, nobody has proven Craig said that.

 

I proved it!  Here it is again:

 

From an article in L.A. Free Press, March 1, 1968, page 3:

FP: Free Press
RC: Roger Craig
PJ: Penn Jones

 

 

Did you see it this time? Roger Craig said:

"But there was another rifle, a Mauser, found up on the the roof of the depository that afternoon."

 

 

45 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

2) Larsen says Garrison saw a version of the DCA film showing the rifle being brought down the fire escape.

So far, nobody has confirmed this.

 

Mark Ulrik confirmed that Garrison did say he saw that. From Garrison's book:

 

It is not my job to prove that Garrison was telling the truth. If you don't want to believe him, fine.

 

45 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

Nobody seems interested the college Larsen claims that they have that film.

 

It was Garrison who claimed that, not me. I just reported what he claimed.

I believe Garrison. If you don't believe him, fine... then don't.

 

[Denis Morissette]

38 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I proved it!  Here it is again:

 

From an article in L.A. Free Press, March 1, 1968, page 3:

FP: Free Press
RC: Roger Craig
PJ: Penn Jones

 

 

Did you see it this time? Roger Craig said:

"But there was another rifle, a Mauser, found up on the the roof of the depository that afternoon."

In that screenshot, Craig is not saying that  he SAW THEM BRING the roof rifle down. He's just repeating what Penn Jones told him. 

38 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

Mark Ulrik confirmed that Garrison did say he saw that. From Garrison's book:

OK, I give you that. Garrison did say that he saw officers bringing down the rifle.

38 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

It is not my job to prove that Garrison was telling the truth. If you don't want to believe him, fine.

 

 

It was Garrison who claimed that, not me. I just reported what he claimed.

I believe Garrison. If you don't believe him, fine... then don't.

 

 

[David Von Pein]

FWIW --- The copy of the DCA film that I have had in my collection for several years is this shorter version below which ends right after the Mentesana Film is shown. This "NFV" [New Frontier Video; Robert Groden] version also has music added (a tune called "Aftermaths" by David Shire), which I think is a very appropriate and excellent theme considering the video's contents. Also: this version does not include any captions at all (such as the wholly inappropriate "Assassin's Rifle" caption):

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Jamey Flanagan]

I do recall at some point in my life and in my long term interest in the assassination (my first real introduction to the assassination was seeing the end of the Kennedy miniseries starting Martin Sheen and I would probably say it was around 1988 and I would have been 10 years old) that I did see footage of a rifle being carried down from the rooftop and it was a different rifle from the MC rifle (different scope or sling placement or some kind of identifying features that the narrator pointed out) found on the sixth floor. I cannot recall what documentary or documentaries I may have seen this in but I know I have seen it. I know "officially" the story they went with to counteract any talk of another rifle being found anywhere other than the sixth floor was that during the search that an officer left his rifle wherever one was found at. But the footage I remember seeing did have them bringing it down showing special care to it as if it were the official weapon used by the assassin. That's not to say that possibly they assumed it was a rifle used by an assassin and took precautions as such only to find out later that it was a rifle left by an officer during the search. It does seem like the first documentary or whatever I recall seeing this in was an older one. Like something done in the late sixties or early seventies but one that presented things that didn't just fall in line with the Warren report. I remember this being the first time I had seen Buell Wesley Frazier talking about the so called package purportedly containing curtain rods and showing how Lee walked with the package tucked under his armpit and in the cup of his hand and that this wasn't long enough to contain the broken down MC rifle. But I'm pretty sure even if memory is correct (I think we watched this in class when I was in the fifth or sixth grade) that I saw this same footage in another documentary somewhere down the line as well. Sorry I can't help beyond only vague memories and have no proof and can easily be written off as misremembering an event. I almost want to say the documentary could have been called something along the lines of Four Days In Dallas maybe? Was there one with a similar name to that containing questions about the official story? Maybe it was Four Days In November. I wanna say something like that. And I very well could be mistaken about the footage even being in that program. I've been studying this case for over thirty years of my life and it's hard to remember sometimes just where I read or saw something. I just know that I read or saw it.

[Bill Brown]

16 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Thanks again for this Kathy and Vince.  Craig once again, to me comes across as honest and sincere.  He may have well seen a second Oswald running down the hill by the railroad tracks near the grassy knoll.  I still don't think he was mistaken in his ID of the Mauser, supported by Wietzman and more.  His mis spoken time of hearing about the Tippit shooting is immediately corrected when countered by Penn Jones.

I can't see how he was lieing for profit or fame.  He ended up broke(n) and destitute.  

He was fired for speaking Truth to Power.  Then blacklisted regarding local employment.  Before and after speaking up for Garrison's Shaw/Bertrand trial being:

Shot at after meeting a "friend" who dropped to the ground to avoid getting hit.

His car blown up when he started it, burning him, imbedding glass in his chest.

Run off the road, back broken 2X, leg, shoulder, foot.  Disabled.

Depressing, as evidenced in his latter part of the video.

Who here has been through such? 

Yet a peace officer, familiar with weapons, man of the year 1960 per Decker, with two of his own hand guns available to blow his own brains out chose to hold an available rifle at arms length held by one hand pointed at his heart, using his other thumb to puss the trigger.

 

His [Roger Craig] mis spoken time of hearing about the Tippit shooting is immediately corrected when countered by Penn Jones.

 

What you are ignoring here is that a few years later, after already accepting that the Tippit shooting took place at 1:15 (saying it occurred at 1:40 and then accepted the correction by Penn Jones that it was 1:15), he  L I E D  and said that when he heard of the Tippit shooting on a nearby police radio, he glanced at his watch and it said the time was 1:06.

 

How does he remember something like that (1:06) in the early 70's while having no clue about the time of the Tippit shooting in the 1968 interview (1:40 and 1:15)?

 

 

[Bill Brown]

16 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Thanks again for this Kathy and Vince.  Craig once again, to me comes across as honest and sincere.  He may have well seen a second Oswald running down the hill by the railroad tracks near the grassy knoll.  I still don't think he was mistaken in his ID of the Mauser, supported by Wietzman and more.  His mis spoken time of hearing about the Tippit shooting is immediately corrected when countered by Penn Jones.

I can't see how he was lieing for profit or fame.  He ended up broke(n) and destitute.  

He was fired for speaking Truth to Power.  Then blacklisted regarding local employment.  Before and after speaking up for Garrison's Shaw/Bertrand trial being:

Shot at after meeting a "friend" who dropped to the ground to avoid getting hit.

His car blown up when he started it, burning him, imbedding glass in his chest.

Run off the road, back broken 2X, leg, shoulder, foot.  Disabled.

Depressing, as evidenced in his latter part of the video.

Who here has been through such? 

Yet a peace officer, familiar with weapons, man of the year 1960 per Decker, with two of his own hand guns available to blow his own brains out chose to hold an available rifle at arms length held by one hand pointed at his heart, using his other thumb to puss the trigger.

 

Shot at after meeting a "friend" who dropped to the ground to avoid getting hit.

His car blown up when he started it, burning him, imbedding glass in his chest.

Run off the road, back broken 2X, leg, shoulder, foot.  Disabled.

 

I have some beachfront property to sell you in beautiful tropical Arizona.