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The "Two Men In Dallas" 5-part video was great. For those who claim that the initial identification of the rifle found on the 6th floor as a Mauser was just an innocent mistake, look at the affidavit that Seymour Weitzman swore out- it's full of detail, and obviously was made by someone who was positive about what he was identifying. Throw in Boone's simultaneous identification of the rifle as a Mauser, and then look at that CIA memo, written on 11/25/63, that listed the 6th floor weapon as a Mauser, and a reasonable person would have to assume that the rifle found there was a Mauser.

I have no idea why a Mauser was apparently found on the 6th floor, or when and where the Mannlicher-Carcano was substituted for it, but it seems pretty clear that it happened that way.

I know that not all researchers believe in Roger Craig's credibility. Imho, he was one of the few members of Dallas law enforcement who actually tried to do his job that day. He unquestionably suffered tremendously because he told the truth and refused to change his story. In my mind, he was a true hero.

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Searh for "Two men In Dallas" on Youtube or Google video.

Great stuff!

Wim

Thank you for that. I suggest all members watch this 5 part video.

Yes, it make you mad to realize what the bastards did to good men like him. I suggest to give Roger Craig posthumely the "David Atlee Phillips award". That would be a laugh.

Mr. Spencer served as co-counsel for Bush/Cheney in the Florida Recount 2000. He is an election lawyer and frequently lectures on election law and litigation.

He is a member of the Overseas Security Advisory Council, United States Department of State, Bureau of Diplomatic Security.

Mr. Spencer was appointed by the Bush Administration to the Presidential Rank Review Board of the Office of Personnel Management, 2001.

Mr. Spencer received the David Atlee Phillips Award 2001 from the Association of Former Intelligence Officers. The Award is made to an individual who advances the interests of the American Intelligence Community. He is the founding President of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers, Theodore Shackley Chapter (South Florida).

I don't know who he is , but all the stuff of that user is good.

http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=10G...bozia01&p=r

Maybe you could send him an invitation.

Does Bernice have a clearer copy of that photo? With some less harsh contrast maybe?

This is the photo of the man, that Jim Garrison showed to Roger Craig.....it is originally from the Garrison files......it became available through the Marsh collection......

B......

What is the Marsh collection? Is this Anthony Marsh? When did this picture exactly come available?

post-632-1198278190.jpg

Little doubt in my mind we're talking about this man:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmorales.htm

*************

Yes it is from the Anthony Marsh collection, and as far as I know it is the only one available..

as is.......and has been available for a numbers of years now.....

B........

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Yet Another Eyewitness

by John Kelin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A newly-discovered document is providing additional corroboration to the claim that Lee Harvey Oswald left Dealey Plaza in a Rambler station wagon in the aftermath of the JFK assassination --- and not as the Warren Commission claimed.

Kansas researcher Chris Courtwright recently came across an FBI document at Archives II in College Park, Maryland, which tells the story of eyewitness Roy Cooper. This important document, an FBI affidavit, provides new corroboration to former Dallas Sheriff's Deputy Roger Craig, who in 1963 reported an observation virtually identical to that reported by Cooper.

The Cooper document states:

To: SAC, Dallas

From: SA Earle Haley

Subject: Assassination of President Kennedy

Mr. Roy Cooper, Route 1, Box 135A, Euless, Texas, phone Butler 3-2640, furnished the following information at 12:15 p.m. this date [ll-23-63]. He related an incident about a Nash Rambler being seen leaving the building at Elm and Houston on 11/22/63. He was driving his car and following his boss who was driving a Cadillac. They were coming south on Houston and had to wait for the parade and the incident happened shortly after they reached this intersection. Cooper observed a white male somewhere between 20 and 30 years of age wave at a Nash Rambler station wagon, light colored, as it pulled out and was ready to leave from Elm and Houston. This station wagon pulled out real fast in front of the Cadillac driven by his boss and his employer had to stop abruptly and nearly hit this Nash Rambler. Cooper could not see who was driving the Nash Rambler and could not furnish any further description of the man who jumped into this car. They drove off at a rather fast rate of speed and went down toward the overpass toward Oak Cliff.

Cooper was following his immediate supervisor Mr. Marvin C. Robinson who was taking his Cadillac home to Oak Cliff. Cooper was then to pick up Robinson and they were to go back to their employment in Garland in his car. He advised that Marvin C. Robinson resides on Marsalis Street in Dallas and that the house is five doors off Loop 12 but he does not have the exact residence.

Cooper and Robinson are both employed at Ling Temco Vought at Garland, Texas. He stated that Robinson would either be at home today or might be on duty at the Naval Air Station at Grand Prairie. He believed that Robinson could give further information about the Rambler station wagon, also the driver and the rider.

Marvin Robinson is long known to have filed a report supporting Deputy Craig's story. Robinson's FBI statement (CD 5, p. 70, though not published in the WC material; see also HSCA vol. 12, p. 18) says:

MARVIN C. ROBINSON, 5120 South Marsalis Avenue, telephone number FRanklin 4-5834, advised that approximately between 12:30 and 1:00p.m. on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, while traveling west on Elm Street he crossed the intersection of Elm and Houston Streets shortly after the assassination of President KENNEDY. ROBINSON stated that after he had crossed Houston Street and was in front of the Texas School Book Depository building a light colored Nash stationwagon suddenly appeared before him. He stated this vehicle stopped and a white male came down the grass covered incline between the building and the street and entered the stationwagon after which it drove away in the direction of the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. ROBINSON stated he does not recall the license number on the stationwagon or whether or not it bore a Texas license plate.

He stated further that he did not pay particular attention to the individual who entered the stationwagon and would be unable to identify him.

ROBINSON was unable to furnish any pertinent information concerning the assassination of President KENNEDY.

Roger Craig told the Warren Commission he saw a man he identified as Oswald flee Dealey Plaza in a Nash Rambler station wagon driven by a second man, ten to fifteen minutes after Kennedy's murder.

Just who was driving this vehicle, and who owned it, could go a long way toward explaining what really happened to President Kennedy. See the article, Possible Discovery of an Automobile Used in the JFK Conspiracy, by Richard Bartholomew, in this issue of Fair Play.

Craig's assertions appear in three different documents published in the Warren Commission volumes, two of them dated 11-23-63 and the third dated 11-25-63. Each specifically mentions a Rambler, although his published testimony before the Commission, taken April 1, 1964, does not. Craig said his references to a Rambler were changed to "station wagon."

Officially, Oswald fled the area minutes after the slaying by foot, bus, and finally taxicab, which took him to within blocks of his Oak Cliff rooming house. The Commission states on page 160 of its Report that it "could not accept important elements of Craig's testimony," and that while Craig may have seen someone fleeing, "this man was not Lee Harvey Oswald."

Craig has been a favorite target of Warren Commission apologists, in spite of a growing body of evidence he was telling the truth. He was fired by the Dallas County Sheriff's office in 1967, and committed suicide in 1975 at the age of 39.

The Roy Cooper in these FBI documents is not to be confused with the former KTVH cameraman of the same name. Cooper the cameraman rescued outtakes of assassination coverage from the wastebasket. This footage was largely unknown until the spring of 1996.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Officer Seymour Weitzman, part of the Dallas police search team, later described the discovery of the rifle on the afternoon of November 22. He stated that it had been so well hidden under boxes of books that the officers stumbled over it many times before they found it. Officer Weitzmann, who had an engineering degree and also operated a sporting goods store, was recognized as an authority on weapons. Consequently, Dallas Homicide Chief Will Fritz, who was on the scene, asked him the make of the rifle. Weitzman identified it as a 7.65 Mauser, a highly accurate German-made weapon. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was also there and later recalled the word "Mauser" inscribed in the metal of the gun. And Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone executed a sworn affidavit in which he described the rifle as a Mauser. As late as midnight November 22, Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade told the media that the weapon found was a Mauser.

… when the smoke cleared and all the law enforcement authorities in Dallas had their stories duly in order, the official position was that the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository was the Mannlicher-Carcano, which allegedly was linked to Oswald under an alias, and not the Mauser, which disappeared forever shortly after it reached the hands of Captain Fritz.

But even this revision of the official story did not explain the third rifle. A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor with the tender care you might give an infant. When the policemen reached the ground, a high-ranking officer held the rifle high for everyone to see. The camera zoomed in for a close-up. Beneath the picture was the legend, "The Assassin’s Rifle." When I saw the film, I noted that this rifle had no sight mounted on it. Thus it could not have been either the Carcano or the vanished Mauser, both of which had sights.

I was not surprised to find that this third rifle, like the Mauser, had disappeared. But its existence confirmed my hypothesis that Lee Oswald could not have killed John Kennedy as the American public had been told. Setting aside the evidence of two other weapons on the scene, the incredibly accurate shooting of an incredibly inaccurate rifle within an impossible time frame was merely the beginning of the feat we were asked to believe Oswald had accomplished.

(Jim Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins, pp. 113 -

Below Roger Craig on the right.......

B.......

Edited by Bernice Moore
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When you click for a full view, your attachment does not......well for moi....

Anyone else......??

Bernice, when I click for a full view, the same sized image appears at 29%. When I move the cursor over the text I see a magnifying glass. When I left click again, the full image appears.

I'm not certain yours works the same way of course.

Mike

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One of the major problems with carrying out research into the JFK assassination is that you have to make judgements on the honesty of the witnesses. For those who believe in the Warren Commission report, all witnesses who provide information that contradicts the official story are either lying or mistaken. For those who believe that Oswald was set-up, the situation is more difficult. Some of these witnesses are lying and the problem is finding out which ones.

This is why this filmed interview with Roger Craig is so important. It allows us to assess if he is telling the truth (this is much more difficult to do with a written interview). To my mind, Craig is a man of integrity who suffered a great deal for his honesty. Craig is therefore one of the most important witnesses that we have.

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  • 5 months later...

But Bernice, many of Roger Craig's claims have always been suspect, he once claimed to have first heard of Tippets murder at 1.06 pm, Penn Jones himself showed this to be incorrect. When Craig first started talking about the Mauser rifle he said it was found on the roof, only later did he say the sixth floor of the TSBD. There's also no proof he actually confronted Oswald about the Rambler in Fritz office. Apart from a photograph of an officer picking "something" up from the ground there's no real proof a .45 slug was ever found in Dealey Plaza. Yes, there was two other witnesses who saw someone getting into a station wagon, Marvin Robinson and Richard Carr but Robinson could not give a description and Carr said the man was "stocky and wearing glasses" clearly not Oswald. Having said all this, I always had a certain amount of faith in many of Craig's claims, as he always sounded so genuine in his interviews and because of the attempts on his life. I guess the truth is I wanted Craig's claims to be true. But now his own daughter (if she indeed is) has come up with this...well, I'm no longer so sure. Denis.

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There's a photo of Craig in the homicide office with Oswald and the homicide detectives. That's enough to place him at the scene and give weight to whatever he says, at least more weight than anyone who wasn't actually there.

1:06 sounds like a good time for the Tippit murder to have occured for me. Penn was often wrong. There are other references to a rifle being found on the roof, even a photo, I believe of a non-carcano rifle being removed from the building.

Those who followed the Man in the Brown Suit from being seen standing next to a man in a white shirt holding a rifle, standing at Port Arms, in a 6th floor window, (See: Six Seconds in Dallas, Thompson/ Bill Weston, 4th Decade) to him running around the TSBD building, and getting into a Rambler Station wagon with luggage rack, wouldn't preclude another man in a white shirt who resembled Oswald running down the knoll and getting into the same car a half block and around the corner away.

You don't have to believe any of the witnesses, but you shouldn't put too much faith in any one, and after taking in all of what all the witnesses described, make up your own mind as to what to believe and what not to.

But the bottom line is it only happened one way.

Craig isn't the only deputy in the Sheriff's office whose veracity should be questioned.

BK

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Bill, if I'm wrong about the following please set me straight , but I belive I'm right in saying the photograph you mention actually shows Craig in Fritz's outer office, not the inner office where Oswald was interrogated and Oswald is not in the photo. Also, the point about the 1.06 statement is that Craig said that just as the police found the rifle another policeman came rushing up the stairs to tell Fritz about Tippets murder, Craig then says he looked at his watch and saw the time was 1.06. But Penn Jones states correctly, that the rifle was not found till 1.22 !! The rifle allegedly found on the roof is VERY controversial, the photo that many claim showed it, turned out to be of a police officer holding a SHOT GUN, but the point here is that this is where Craig first says the Mauser was found. And surly if there was already a passenger in the station wagon when Oswald got in, Craig would have stated as much. This email from Craig's daughter is no small thing Bill, it really does cast dispersions on ALL Craig's claims. It's a bombshell. If of course it really is from her. You seem prety sure it is, may I ask why? Denis.

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No, I don't know if its really his daughter or not, it just sounds real and not uncommon. Oswald's daughters often feel the same way. I just picked up a copy of Robert Oswald's Lee, A Portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald by his brother (for a quarter). Similar deal. Penn Jones' "archives" at Baylor are so stark of material because his exwife sold everything at a garage sale. Family members google their relatives, fathers, sisters, brothers, and girlfriends check it out and sometimes express what they know, and feel. That shouldn't change how you think.

The case for conspiracy doesn't rely on Craig, and his daughter's comments certainly don't constitute a bombshell.

As for what Craig says, he gives insight into other deputies, especially Lummie Lewis, who picked up Braden, and Bill Decker, the top dog, who kicked Braden out of Dallas a few years before.

Instead of judging one deputy, look at the whole corrupt County Sheriff system (adopted from the British model), that Skinny D'Amato used to help JFK win the West Virginia primary (According to Sly Hersh's The Darkside of Camelot), and who were on stand down for security purposes even thought their office ovelooks DP.

It was the Sheriff who was to take custody of the alledged assassin cop killer prisoner, as Decker (and Craig and company) would have had Oswald for their own interrogation purposes if he wasn't killed during the transfer.

Craig is just one of hundreds of similar witnesses and subjects in the assassination drama, and every one of them can be totally discredited.

BK

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There's also no proof he actually confronted Oswald about the Rambler in Fritz office. Apart from a photograph of an officer picking "something" up from the ground there's no real proof a .45 slug was ever found in Dealey Plaza. Yes, there was two other witnesses who saw someone getting into a station wagon, Marvin Robinson and Richard Carr but Robinson could not give a description and Carr said the man was "stocky and wearing glasses" clearly not Oswald. Having said all this, I always had a certain amount of faith in many of Craig's claims, as he always sounded so genuine in his interviews and because of the attempts on his life. I guess the truth is I wanted Craig's claims to be true. But now his own daughter (if she indeed is) has come up with this...well, I'm no longer so sure. Denis.

Carr saw the stocky man whom he followed south across DP getting into a Rambler, when the Rambler stands at Commerce/ South Record- Street.

5cnqa.jpg

Oswald get into the Rambler in front of the SBDB.

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