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The get-away car


Tim Gratz
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I would like to start a thread where members can post and discuss the get-away car: the statements of the witnesses who saw it, potential pictures of the car, etc.

Here is a link to one of several Richard Bartholomew articles re the "get-away" car:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...Rmblr96.FP.html

Here is a link to Roger Craig's testimiony in the Clay Shaw trial:

http://www.jfk-online.com/craigshaw.html

There is a lot of information to discuss here. It will be very helpful to exchange information and comments. I know some members have studied this little "piece of the puzzle" extensively.

Edited by Tim Gratz
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Thanks, Tim.

Great stuff by Bartholomew, he winds around but is worth reading -

Also I was just asking the members for more on Roger Craig.

I have always suspected that the white landau coup seen in the NIX film near the pergola and fence played some role, and there is the green "Ruby" truck, the "Oswald" rambler, the vehicles suspiciously casing the RR tower lot, the AIR CONDITIONING truck and the JOE"S PAWN SHOP truck, the Stopped vehicles in the Plaza, westbound lane, and others..........

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John's page on Mr. Carr (Which definitely should be read in its entirety) also includes this information re another witness to the Nash (Rambler) station wagon:

Hurt's account of Commission Document 5: "Soon after the shooting, Marvin C. Robinson was driving west along Elm Street in heavy traffic. According to an FBI report dated the next day, just as Robinson crossed the Elm and Houston intersection, he saw a "light-colored Nash station wagon" stop in front of the Book Depository. A white man walked down the grassy incline from the building, got into the Nash, and the car moved off in the direction of Oak Cliff. Robinson was unable to provide any additional information."

Does anyone have any further information on what happened to Mr. Robinson?

Did he testify at the Shaw trial (as did Craig and Carr)?

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Seth Kantor has this excerpt: The third is a lengthy memorandum written by Vince Salandria, dated

1/31/67, regarding an interview with Rita Rollins, a Navy Nurse with an

interesting story to tell.---the crucial part in question reads as

follows:

"The name of the person in Dallas...is Inez Robertson. CHUCK

ROBERTSON, HER HUSBAND, WORKS AT THE POST OFFICE...Inez Robertson,

actually saw them [men with guns] make a breakdown of the rifles. This

tall man with long grey or white hair[-]he was in the station wagon.

There is a luggage rack on the station wagon. It was a Rambler station

wagon.

Edited by Wade Rhodes
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Let's see, rifle and tall man:

Hathaway testified; tall man, blond hair, with rifle case in Dallas just before.

Quote:

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Philip Ben Hathaway Address 11021 Quail Run, Dallas Age 28 , Phone No. DI 8 6532 DOB: July 9, 1935 DOB: Chicago, Ill. Wks: Lone Star Gas Co, Research & Development Dept. RI 1 5711 Ext 776

Deposes and says:

Just before Noon today, my friend John Stevens Rutter Lawrence, who works with me, and I and two other friends left the Texaco Building where we work going to the parade. We were walking down Commerce up to Main and Main to Akard andwhile [sic] we were walking up Akard towards Main Street we passed a man who was carrying a rifle in a gun case. I saw this man walking towards me, walking towards Commerce, and too particular attention to him because ofhis [sic] size. I am 6'5" and weigh 200 pounds. This man was very tall, approx 6'6" or 6'7" over 250 pounds, very thick and big through the chest, in his 30's, dirty blonde hair worn in a crew cut. Was wearing a grey colored business suit with white dress shirt, fair complexion. I remarked to my friend that there was a guy carrying a gun in all this crowd and made the remark that he was probably a secret service man. I could very easily identify this man if I ever saw him again. The gun case was holding a rifle because I could tell there was a gun in it as it was a combination leather and cloth gun case and without a gun, it would have been limp, but it was heavy and he was carrying it by the handle and the barrell [sic] of the gun was up at a 45 degree angle. It was beige or tan leather and olive drab material.

We can place the time we saw this man walking with the gun as I recall someone in the crowd asking for the time and they said it was 11:50A.M.

/s/ Philip Ben Hathaway

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963

/s/ Rosemary Allen

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

Un-quote.

Next, getaway car spotted. Can you believe they forgot to fill up before shooting the President???

This is an excerpt of the transcript of the DPD radio traffic from November 22nd 1962.

Too bad they say Pontiac....

Quote:

1:23 1022. DIS: 10-4, 603. 1:23.

1023. 91(?): What was his direction of travel on Jefferson?

1024. DIS: Traveling west on Jefferson, 400 block, last seen

-- 401 West Jefferson -- correction: 401 East

Jefferson.

1025. 91(?): 10-4.

1026. DIS: Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on

a police officer: A white male; approximately

thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has

black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and

dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west

on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24.

1027. DIS: Does anybody know the condition of the officer?

1028. DIS: 60.

1029. 87: 87. (siren)

1030. DIS: 87.

1031. 87: Was that 4340 West Davis?

1032. DIS: Yes.

1033. 87: 10-4.

1034. DIS: Somebody pulled in there and bought some gas;

driving a white Pontiac '61 or '62 station

wagon with the prefix P(ecos) E(llis). He had

a rifle laying on the seat. 1035. 87: 10-4.

1036. DIS: Have a citizen following this car at this

time, unknown direction.

1037. 605: 605, Code 6.

1:25 1038. DIS: 10-4, 605. 1:25.

-------------------------------------------------

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Wade,

It was a Rambler station wagon.

Robertson figures in Vince Palamara's article about a possible SS agent who died in Dallas that day.

There is no way to know if the following is connected at all. But, you remember Bernard Weissman of the black bordered ad?

How about this...

From the WC testimony of Bernard Weissman:

Mr. WEISSMAN. We left out one man, one of the original men. His name was James Moseley.

Mr. JENNER. Was he a GI with you?

Mr. WEISSMAN. No; he was an American civilian. His father was a major--is a major in the Army.

Mr. JENNER. And was he an acquaintance of yours?

Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Prior to this time?

Mr. WEISSMAN. Not prior to this. I met him when I went into the organization.

Mr. JENNER. I see. Was he an acquaintance of Mr. Schmidt's?

Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. This man you have now mentioned, Moseley, was a civilian in Germany?

Mr. WEISSMAN. He was a civilian; yes.

Mr. JENNER. How did he come to be in Munich? Was his father stationed there?

Mr. WEISSMAN. His father was stationed there. But he was also employed by Rambler--he was selling Ramblers.

There was a witness in Dealey Plaza who talked about starting to leave the scene and had to jam on his breaks because a red Chevrolet went roaring around him or her (sorry, can't remember the name of the witness.)

I wonder if it was the same red Chevrolet descibed here.

The first car I think was the one Donald Wayne House was driving.

Steve Thomas

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Carr's story is interesting, as well as the timeline..

Still another sighting of this man was made by an unemployed steel worker, Richard R. Carr.21 Shortly after noon, he was looking for work at the site of the new courthouse on Houston St. He was seek-ing out the foreman on the ninth floor, and as he ascended, he stopped at the sixth floor, from which he could view the top floor of the Depository. He noted a heavy-set man looking out a window next to the one on the far east end. This man was wearing a hat, glasses, and, according to Carr, a tan sportcoat.22 For a short time, Carr studied the man, and then he continued his ascent.

About a minute or two later, he heard a loud noise that sounded like a firecracker. The was a slight pause and then he heard two more reports in rapid succession. He turned his eyes toward the triple under-pass, which was where he thought the shots came from. In the grassy area between Elm and Main he could see several individuals falling to the ground. To learn more, he immediately began to descend the stairs.

After Carr reached the ground, he again saw the man whom he had previously seen on the seventh floor of the Book Depository. He was rapidly approaching Carr at a very fast walking pace. When he got to the corner of Commerce, he turned left. On the next street over was a 1961 or 1962 Nash Rambler station wagon, parked facing north. It had a luggage rack on top and Texas plates. In the driver's seat was a young Black. The heavy-set man opened the rear door and got in. The car was last seen heading north on Record Street. This momentary sighting dovetails with the observation of sheriff's deputy Roger Craig, who also saw a Nash Rambler station wagon, also driven by a dark-complected man, about fifteen minutes after the shooting, heading west on Elm. It stopped in front of the TSBD and a man later identified by Craig as Lee Harvey Oswald got inside. The car was last seen going under the triple under-pass in a direction that could have taken it toward Oak Cliff.

In the course of this study, we have looked at a good number of incidents that occurred within a very short period of time -- about fifteen to twenty minutes. To show how these wide-ranging circumstances can be combined into a logical sequence, the following chronology is presented:

12:28 A man in a tan sportcoat is seen by Carr on the seventh floor of the TSBD.

12:29 A man in a brown suit coat is seen by Walther on the fifth floor of the TSBD, standing next to a gunman.

12:30 Worrell sees a gun firing at the President from a window on the fifth or sixth floor. Romack starts walking toward TSBD, keeping back door within his view.

12:31 Barnett runs to the back area of the TSBD. He encounters Adams and Styles coming out the back door.

12:32 Barnett returns to the front of TSBD

12:33 The KBOX news car arrives on the scene. Romack removes a portion of a barrier, allowing the vehicle to pass. Meanwhile, the man in the dark sportcoat dashes out the back door.

12:34 The KBOX car is parked near TSBD. The man in the tan sportcoat is seen by Carr walking south on Houston. He gets into a Nash Rambler driven by a Black man.

12:45 Deputy Roger Craig sees "Oswald" escaping in a Nash Rambler driven by a dark-complected man.

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  • 11 months later...
From the WC testimony of Bernard Weissman:

Mr. WEISSMAN. We left out one man, one of the original men. His name was James Moseley.

Mr. JENNER. Was he a GI with you?

Mr. WEISSMAN. No; he was an American civilian. His father was a major--is a major in the Army.

Mr. JENNER. And was he an acquaintance of yours?

Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Prior to this time?

Mr. WEISSMAN. Not prior to this. I met him when I went into the organization.

Mr. JENNER. I see. Was he an acquaintance of Mr. Schmidt's?

Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. This man you have now mentioned, Moseley, was a civilian in Germany?

Mr. WEISSMAN. He was a civilian; yes.

Mr. JENNER. How did he come to be in Munich? Was his father stationed there?

Mr. WEISSMAN. His father was stationed there. But he was also employed by Rambler--he was selling Ramblers.

Steve...

Letter from JW Moseley to Ruby in prison. The letter doesn't seem to make much sense - save for the closing remarks. Same party do you suppose?

- lee

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