The Magic Bullet

[Tim Gratz]

There is an interestinge new artcle on the magic bullet by Dr. Gary Aguilar and Josiah Thompson.

Worth reading.

Here's the link.

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/fram...MoreMagical.htm

Edited April 10, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Guest Stephen Turner]

There is an interestinge new artcle on the magic bullet by Dr. Gary Aguilar and Josiah Thompson.

Worth reading.

Here's the link.

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/fram...MoreMagical.htm

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Tim.

Great stuff!! I have always belived that the two aspects of this case

that give the L/N game away are, the Magic bullet,& Ruby's stated

reasons for killing Oswald. For guys like Ruby the bottom line is

ALWAYS" Whats in it for me".

[Tim Gratz]

You are right, of course, Stephen.

The public's perception that a conspiracy existed was fueled by Ruby's murder of Oswald. Query what would have happened, if, for instance, Oswald had been killed in a gun battle with Officer Tippitt or another police officer rather than by Ruby in what appears so obviously as a plot to silence Oswald.

As most members know, I strongly believe that Florida mafioso Santo Trafficante Jr. participated in the assassination. And most members are aware that when the FBI in London reported that a journalist claimed to have seen Ruby visiting Trafficante while Trafficante was jailed in Cuba in 1959, HQ ordered the London office to drop any further investigation of the claim.

Had that claim been investigated, it may well have led to an early discovery of the conspiracy and its sponsors. The fact that the FBI did not want an investigation into Ruby's possible relationship with a major figure in organized crime demonstrates that in the immediate aftermath of the assassination the last thing Washington wanted to explore was possible evidence of a conspiracy.

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

"The public's perception that a conspiracy existed was fueled by Ruby's murder of Oswald. Query what would have happened, if, for instance, Oswald had been killed in a gun battle with Officer Tippitt or another police officer rather than by Ruby in what appears so obviously as a plot to silence Oswald."

What possible reason would Tippit have had to shoot Oswald if we assume that the reason the police were looking for Oswald was because he had allegedly shot Tippit - if you follow my meaning.

I can imagine some other policeman shooting Oswald in different circumstances.

Your words on Tippit shooting Oswald are literally preposterous i.e. inverted, back to front.

We must go what actually happened or what is alleged to have happened.

You cannot have Tippit shooting Oswald if the reason Oswald was being hunted was because HE (Oswald) had shot Tippit in the first place. How could a dead man shoot a man who had already shot him (the dead man)?

If we assume Oswald was being hunted for some other reason and is then shot by Tippit I feel this opens up an even bigger can of worms than did Ruby's slaying of Oswald.

EBC

Edited April 11, 2005 by Eugene B. Connolly

[Tim Gratz]

There had been broadcast by the time of the Tippitt shooting, if my recollection serves me, a description of the supposed assassin that fit Oswald.

There are some who believe that Tippitt was part of the plot and his assignment was to kill Oswald but Oswald got the "jump" on him, suspecting what was up.

I am not sure if there is any evidence to support this scenario. I do not remember the thread but I am quite certain this scenario has been previously discussed on this Forum at some length.

I am not personally advocating the theory that Tippitt was a conspirator. My point was simply that there would have been less reason for the public to suspect a conspiracy if Oswald had been killed in a police shoot-out rather than murdered while in police custody.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

There had been broadcast by the time of the Tippitt shooting, if my recollection serves me, a description of the supposed assassin that fit Oswald.

There are some who believe that Tippitt was part of the plot and his assignment was to kill Oswald but Oswald got the "jump" on him, suspecting what was up.

I am not sure if there is any evidence to support this scenario. I do not remember the thread but I am quite certain this scenario has been previously discussed on this Forum at some length.

I am not personally advocating the theory that Tippitt was a conspirator.  My point was simply that there would have been less reason for the public to suspect a conspiracy if Oswald had been killed in a police shoot-out rather than murdered while in police custody.

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Tim.

The APB was broadcast on police channels at 12-45, White Male, 5ft 10ins,

165lbs approx. Best timing on the Tippitt murder,1-15. Of course the real

question in all this is what was tippitt doing in the area in the first place?

[Mark Knight]

Indeed, what WAS Tippitt doing in Oak Cliff at 1 pm?

According to the MP3 I have of the KLIF broadcast from 11/22/63, the Dallas Police Dispatcher informed a KLIF newsman immediately after the shooting was reported that ALL available officers were ordered to report immediately to the area of Elm and Houston, "code 3" [full lights and siren operating]. Apparently, Tippitt never obeyed the order.

I find that strange, to the point of incredible. Here we have the reported shooting of the President of the United States, and all available officers are ordered to report to the scene of the shooting, and Tippitt disobeys the order. When a crime of this magnitude is involved, and an officer disobeys an order to report to the scene of the crime, all sorts of warning lights and bells go off in my mind.

Apparently the same reaction didn't occur within the DPD.

I find that strange... am I the only one?

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

Matthew Smith puts the idea forward in his book 'JFK The Second Plot' that Tippit knew Oswald and they were both somehow involved in something .

There is reasonable doubt that Oswald did not shoot Tippit but that a third

person did. Also there are doubts whether the bullets which hit Officer Tippit and killed him ever actually came from Oswald's gun - this point has never been conclusively proved.

I had always assumed that the reason the police were looking for Oswald was because Oswald had shot Tippit.

Mark Lane in 'Rush to Judgement' has queried the timing and sequence of events regarding the murder of Tippit and the search for Oswald.

EBC

Edited April 12, 2005 by Eugene B. Connolly

[Pat Speer]

Indeed, what WAS Tippitt doing in Oak Cliff at 1 pm?

I find that strange, to the point of incredible.  Here we have the reported shooting of the President of the United States, and all available officers are ordered to report to the scene of the shooting, and Tippitt disobeys the order.  When a crime of this magnitude is involved, and an officer disobeys an order to report to the scene of the crime, all sorts of warning lights and bells go off in my mind.

Apparently the same reaction didn't occur within the DPD.

I find that strange... am I the only one?

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I found that strange at one point, but somewhere in the 26 volumes I came across the testimony of Tippitt's superior. It's been awhile, and I can't remember the officer's name, but I'm almost certain he testified that Tippitt was ordered to patrol that general area. Although the bulk of DPD was merging onto the crime scene, they still kept a few out on the streets elsewhere. Tippitt was just unlucky. In the words of his killer, who I believe was Oswald, he was a "poor dumb cop."

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Indeed, what WAS Tippitt doing in Oak Cliff at 1 pm?

I find that strange, to the point of incredible.  Here we have the reported shooting of the President of the United States, and all available officers are ordered to report to the scene of the shooting, and Tippitt disobeys the order.  When a crime of this magnitude is involved, and an officer disobeys an order to report to the scene of the crime, all sorts of warning lights and bells go off in my mind.

Apparently the same reaction didn't occur within the DPD.

I find that strange... am I the only one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I found that strange at one point, but somewhere in the 26 volumes I came across the testimony of Tippitt's superior. It's been awhile, and I can't remember the officer's name, but I'm almost certain he testified that Tippitt was ordered to patrol that general area. Although the bulk of DPD was merging onto the crime scene, they still kept a few out on the streets elsewhere. Tippitt was just unlucky. In the words of his killer, who I believe was Oswald, he was a "poor dumb cop."

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Pat.

Is this it?

12-45pm-Officer Tipitt & officer R Nelson, ordered into central Oak Cliff

area. Neither Officer acknowleged the call.

1-08pm-Tipitt calls into H/Q, dispatcher doe's not respond.

1-16pm Approx- Private citizen T F Bowley uses Tipitt's radio to report

the shooting.

[Shanet Clark]

Is there any chance Tippit was wounded at Dealey at 12.30 and moved to the Oak Cliff position where he was discovered? Some threads were pointing to that possibility, where Tippit was a murdered conspirator, the casualty that caaused the blood stain, possibly, a victim of friendly fire or an abort attempt during the assassination. Is this in the range of possibility?

[Antti Hynonen]

Shanet Clark Posted Yesterday, 09:12 PM

  Is there any chance Tippit was wounded at Dealey at 12.30 and moved to the Oak Cliff position where he was discovered? Some threads were pointing to that possibility, where Tippit was a murdered conspirator, the casualty that caaused the blood stain, possibly, a victim of friendly fire or an abort attempt during the assassination. Is this in the range of possibility?

Shanet,

Interesting thought, however, Tippit did the following after the assassination:

* He drove off quickly from the edge of down-town to Oak Cliff

* He pulled over a driver, by swerving in front ofhim and forcing him to stop. He then inspected the rear-seat area of this vehicle before speeding off again. He was observed by the person(s) in the car. No indication of a visible wound on Tippit.

* He entered a record store and tried to make a phone call, no indication by the persons in the store that he was wounded.

I think the blood found near the TSBD, on the sidewalk and over by the knoll on the walkway, will remain a mystery. I think someone got hit and was able to escape the scene without being detected (as having been injured). It is interesting that also the other shooter(s) escaped, virtually undetected.

Some pretty slick blending-in with the crowd (or police, or agents) took place.

[Pat Speer]

I think the blood found near the TSBD, on the sidewalk and over by the knoll on the walkway, will remain a mystery. I think someone got hit and was able to escape the scene without being detected (as having been injured). It is interesting that also the other shooter(s) escaped, virtually undetected.

Some pretty slick blending-in with the crowd (or police, or agents) took place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I seem to remember reading some time ago that the so-called pool of blood was most logically soda pop--Cherry Nehi, or Cherry Crush... This made sense to me at the time. Was not the pool by the bench precisely where the black couple was seen drinking soda pop? And didn't Marilyn Sitzman say they broke one of the bottles? Or am I mixed up?

[Antti Hynonen]

Pat Speer Posted Today, 08:03 AM

  QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Apr 14 2005, 08:51 AM)

I think the blood found near the TSBD, on the sidewalk and over by the knoll on the walkway, will remain a mystery. I think someone got hit and was able to escape the scene without being detected (as having been injured). It is interesting that also the other shooter(s) escaped, virtually undetected.

Some pretty slick blending-in with the crowd (or police, or agents) took place.

I seem to remember reading some time ago that the so-called pool of blood was most logically soda pop--Cherry Nehi, or Cherry Crush... This made sense to me at the time. Was not the pool by the bench precisely where the black couple was seen drinking soda pop? And didn't Marilyn Sitzman say they broke one of the bottles? Or am I mixed up?

Pat,

You could be right about the soda. However, there were two distinctly different pools of "blood". There was a thread not too long ago on this Forum where these two pools of "blood" were discussed.

From what I remember, the pool by the TSBD, was actually identified as blood by a few reporters (one of them tasted it). As far as I recall the other pool was not "examined" as thoroughly, so as far as I know it could have been blood or soda or something else. In that thread there is a clip of video, including a few shots of the section of walkway by the retaining wall, with a glance at the concrete walkway which clearly contains some sort of liquid on it. It is impossible to say what this liquid is, but we do see someone in the clip, looking like Det. Buddy Walthers looking at this liquid. At any rate, it looked suspicious enough for Det. Walthers to look at it and for someone to film it.

Edited April 14, 2005 by Antti Hynonen

[Tim Gratz]

A police officer tasting blood!

Wouldn't happen now, of course!