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"I don't own a rifle---"


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Although we don't know if rifle CE 2766 which allegedly belonged to LHO was actually fired on 11/22/63, we must accept that the rifling marks on CE399 and at least one of the fragments said to have been found in the Presidential Limo had been fired "at some time" thru this rifle barrel. This as, stated elsewhere, could have occured on 11/22/63 or at any date prior to this and the bullets could have been saved for later evidence planting. As a matter of fact the near pristine condition of CE399 could have resulted from the bullet having been fired into a liquid or into a soft fiber.

The question that I ask is in the light of Ozzie's satement that he did not own a rifle, a statement which I think was was subjected to a voice stress analization test, he perhaps could technically have been telling the truth. Is it not possibe that he sold this weapon? Maybe to Seymour, Ferrie, Wes Frazier or to countless other suspected conspiracists? When was the last time that Marina claimed to actually see the rifle?

The reason that this scenario came to mind is if the gun were stolen from the Paine garage, who knew that it was their? I don"t think that tight lipped Ozzie would have broadcast it. It is unlikely that Marina would have told Morman Ruth Paine. Therefore if it had been removed from the garage, it seems that it could not have been so without the knowledge of Ruth, Marina or LHO.

In lieu of substantial testimony of other TSBD employees who observed LHO enter work without a large package on 11/22/63, I have for some time questioned the testimonies of Wes Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae. We must remember that they were close neighbors of the Paines. We must also remember that Ruth, Wes and Linnie Mae were the only way that Oz had procured his job at the TSBD. Additionally, it was the testimonies of Marina, Ruth, Wes and Linnie Mae that initially nailed LHO to the cross. Their seems to be an enormous amount of circumstantial and not so circumstantial evidence here. In my opinion--Too Much!

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Guest Stephen Turner

In lieu of substantial testimony of other TSBD employees who observed LHO enter work without a large package on 11/22/63, I have for some time questioned the testimonies of Wes Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae. We must remember that they were close neighbors of the Paines. We must also remember that Ruth, Wes and Linnie Mae were the only way that Oz had procured his job at the TSBD. Additionally, it was the testimonies of Marina, Ruth, Wes and Linnie Mae that initially nailed LHO to the cross. Their seems to be an enormous amount of circumstantial and not so circumstantial evidence here. In my opinion--Too Much!

I to find this evidence disturbing. Oswald leaves Frazier's car,walks though

the car park, into the lobby of the TSBD,& gets to his place of work, all the

time carrying a large brown paper sack that positively screams RIFLE,

yet nobody see's it!!!

It must be remembered though, that both Wes Frazier & his sister refused

to identify the sack shown to them by the DPD & W/C. Both claimed it was

9ins to a foot to long. & stuck to this despite much pressure to change their

testimony.

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I don't recall if I have posted this here before or not, but I do question if Linnie Mae Randle actually saw all that she claimed to have seen.

WC Testimony Of Linnie Mae Randle

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/randlelm.htm

Excerpts of Testimony

Mr Ball

Mr. BALL. He walked over to your house, did he?

Mrs. RANDLE. Well, I saw him as he started crossing the street. Where he come from then I couldn't say.

Mr. BALL. You don't know where he went from that?

Mrs. RANDLE. Where he went?

Mr. BALL. Did you see him go to the car?

Mrs. RANDLE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. What did he do?

Mrs. RANDLE. He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the package down so I closed the door. I didn't recognize him as he walked across my carport and I at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly and saw that it--I assumed he was getting in the car but he didn't, so he come back and stood on the driveway.

Mr. BALL. He put the package in the car.

Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; I don't know if he put it on the seat or on the floor but I just know he put it in the back.

Senator Cooper

Senator COOPER. On that point--did you see Lee Oswald place the package in the automobile?

Mrs. RANDLE. In the automobile. I do not know if he put it on the seat or on the floor.

Senator COOPER. I mean did you see him throw open the. door?

Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. When he placed the package in there do you remember whether he used one hand or two?

Mrs. RANDLE. No; because I only opened the door briefly and what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked.

Mr Jenner

Mr. JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, could I ask--how far away were you? You were at the kitchen door and the automobile was in the driveway, what was the distance between yourself and Mr. Oswald?

Mrs. RANDLE. Sir, I don't know. The carport will take care of two cars, and then Wesley's car was on the other side of the carport so that would be three car lengths plus in between space.

Mr. JENNER. Car widths?

Mrs. RANDLE. Car widths, excuse me.

______________________________________

Linnie could have seen LHO cross the empty lot and walk towards her carport, from her small kitchen window and could have seen IF he was carrying a large package.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0097b.htm

She thought he went into her carport and she opened the kitchen door to peek out, (bottom photo)

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0096b.htm

What Linnie could see when she looked out her kitchen door (top photo)

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0097a.htm

Where Wesley Frazier actually parked his car (bottom photo)

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0097a.htm

IMHO... Linnie Mae Randel could have seen LHO approach her house with

(or without) a package, but she I don't think she could have seen him place the package in Wesleys car, as she testified.

Linnie's mother, Essie Mae Williams testified in an FBI Report to SA Henry

Oliver on 12/10/63,,,that she also watched LHO approah their house from their kitchen. and he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else. I have not yet located Essie's testimony, to verify it.

Dixie

Edited by Dixie Dea
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Dixie wrote: "Linnie's mother, Essie Mae Williams testified in an FBI Report to SA Henry Oliver on 12/10/63,,,that she also watched LHO approah their house from their kitchen. and he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else. I have not yet located Essie's testimony, to verify it."

Dixie

Dixie, this interview is news to me and probably to many others. Can't wait to see your next post.

Ray

"Do not block the way of inquiry" C.S. Peirce

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Dixie,

Linnie's mother, Essie Mae Williams testified in an FBI Report to SA Henry

Oliver on 12/10/63,,,that she also watched LHO approah their house from their kitchen. and he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else. I have not yet located Essie's testimony, to verify it.

Dixie

According to Mary Ferrell's database, it's on CD 205. If you have access to the Warren Commission documents, you might find it there.

Steve Thomas

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  • 4 years later...
Guest Tom Scully
Dixie,
Linnie's mother, Essie Mae Williams testified in an FBI Report to SA Henry

Oliver on 12/10/63,,,that she also watched LHO approah their house from their kitchen. and he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else. I have not yet located Essie's testimony, to verify it.

Dixie

According to Mary Ferrell's database, it's on CD 205. If you have access to the Warren Commission documents, you might find it there.

Steve Thomas

Does anyone else think it is odd that no one asked for or recorded the actual address of Wesley Buell Frazier's mother, Essie Mae Williams in Huntington, TX on the record, or even inquired as to Essie Mae's husband's name? Her husband was Wesley's step-father, probably for most of his formative years, and that Huntington address was also Wesley's permanent, or at least his immediately prior address.

Wesley was born in 1944, His sister Linnie Mae Randle in 1933, and there were other siblings born in between those years. Their father, Elbert Frazier and a woman named Mertie Brown, aka "Myrtie Louise Brown" had a child less than four years later, Charles Eunice Frazier, DOB Aug. 2, 1948. (A daughter was also born to the couple in 1951, and Wesley's father died in Harris Cty., TX in 1993.)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=147

In the FBI document linked immediately above. "Linnie" is spelled "Lennie", and the address displays as "2439" West 5th.

The WC transcript of Linnie Mae Randle's testimony displays "2438 Westfield" as the address.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=148

3885897684_d8635a71d9_o.jpg

Observe that the Irving, TX address in the above document is not the correct street number, but probably not intentional.

If the FBI asked Wesley and his mother for ID documents, they would probably not display an Irving, TX address.

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol2/page211.php

....Mr. Ball.

You call yourself Buell or Wesley?

Mr. Frazier.

I go by Wesley.

Mr. Ball.

Well, Wesley, what is your age?

Mr. Frazier.

Sir?

Mr. Ball.

What is your age?

Mr. Frazier.

Nineteen.

Mr. Ball.

Where do you live?

Mr. Frazier.

For the time being I am living in Irving now.

Mr. Ball.

Irving, Tex.

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

What is the address where you live?

Mr. Frazier.

2439 West Fifth Street.

Mr. Ball.

Did you live there in November 1963?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. Ball.

And who lives in that house with you?

Mr. Frazier.

My sister and brother-in-law and their three children.

Mr. Ball.

Will you state their names, your sister's name?

Mr. Frazier.

Linnie Mae Randle and my brother-in-law. I believe his real name is William Edward Randle. We call him Bill. They have three little girls, Diana, Patricia and Caroline Sue.

Mr. Ball.

Where does your mother live?

Mr. Frazier.

She lives in Huntsville.

Mr. Ball.

Where is that?

Mr. Frazier.

That is about 200 miles south of Dallas there.

Mr. Ball.

What is the name of the town?

Mr. Frazier.

Town, you mean where my mother lives? Huntsville.

Mr. Ball.

Huntsville?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; that is about, it is about 70, 80 miles north of Houston.

Mr. Ball.

What is your mother's name?

Mr. Frazier.

Essie Mae Williams.

Mr. Ball.

Was she visiting you and your sister sometime in November 1963?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; she was.

Mr. Ball.

How long was she there?

Mr. Frazier.

She was there for, I believe, for a period of about 4 or 5 weeks because my stepfather was with her and he got sick and they had to put him in the hospital and he was in the hospital 3 or 4 weeks, somewhere, 4 or 5 weeks because they were there a week before he got sick.

Mr. Ball.

Then on November 21 and 22, living with you in this residence at Irving, Tex., were your mother, Mrs. Williams, and your sister, Linnie Mae Randle?

Edited by Tom Scully
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Dixie wrote: "Linnie's mother, Essie Mae Williams testified in an FBI Report to SA Henry Oliver on 12/10/63,,,that she also watched LHO approah their house from their kitchen. and he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else. I have not yet located Essie's testimony, to verify it."

Dixie

Dixie, this interview is news to me and probably to many others. Can't wait to see your next post.

Ray

"Do not block the way of inquiry" C.S. Peirce

Ray, the interview is here: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=148

Essie Williams does not say "he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else" as stated by Dixie.

She actually says "She did not see this person carrying anything" and that she "only got a quick glimpse of Oswald" big difference isn't it. Misquoting testimony, albeit by accident, does not help the cause.

Edited by Denis Pointing
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Denis.....

Misquting tesrtimony? Why be so insulting??? Even thouggh, I posted this four years ago, no one has

mentioned finding Essie's testimony.

.

I was only qyoting what I have read in several JFK books...and not from my own made-up words. In fact, I also specifically mentioned that I had not been able to find Essie's testimony to verify it. I had searched for it, for some time, even before the MFF site ever came along.. I had no idea it was now at her website, since I am unable to ever access that website. So, I am still only able to accept what ypu say and not from reading her testimony with my own eyes.

Your apparently correct info, is actually welcomn to me, after tryimg to find it for so long and to finally read what she evidently did actually say. For that part, I do appreciate your help. But your own misleading inferences against me is not necessary and is unwelcome

Dixie

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Denis.....

Misquting tesrtimony? Why be so insulting??? Even thouggh, I posted this four years ago, no one has

mentioned finding Essie's testimony.

.

I was only qyoting what I have read in several JFK books...and not from my own made-up words. In fact, I also specifically mentioned that I had not been able to find Essie's testimony to verify it. I had searched for it, for some time, even before the MFF site ever came along.. I had no idea it was now at her website, since I am unable to ever access that website. So, I am still only able to accept what ypu say and not from reading her testimony with my own eyes.

Your apparently correct info, is actually welcomn to me, after tryimg to find it for so long and to finally read what she evidently did actually say. For that part, I do appreciate your help. But your own misleading inferences against me is not necessary and is unwelcome

Dixie

No insult was intended, I didn't belive for one second that your misquote was anymore than a mistake, I said as much in my post when I wrote "albeit by accident". Would you have preferred I had not pointed out your misquote? How on Earth can my correction of your mistake be interpreted as a "misleading inferences against me (you)"? I make it a rule never to 'quote' without being able to verify, even if I have read the quote in "several JFK books". I guess we all have different standards of research.

PS If you would care to read the transcript in full let me know, I'll only be to glad to post it. Denis.

Edited by Denis Pointing
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Here you go Dixie......

Dennis quote " I make it a rule never to 'quote' without being able to verify, even if I have read the quote in "several JFK books". I guess we all have different standards of research.

Then why add insult to injury..in your last sentence........It does appear your standards are very lacking today in research posting etiquette.....

B.......

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Here you go Dixie......

Dennis quote " I make it a rule never to 'quote' without being able to verify, even if I have read the quote in "several JFK books". I guess we all have different standards of research.

Then why add insult to injury..in your last sentence........It does appear your standards are very lacking today in research posting etiquette.....

B.......

I give as I receive Bernice, where is the "posting etiquette" in Dixie's accusation that I posted "misleading inferences" against her? Read the post, I did no such thing. Dixie misquoted and I corrected the mistake, end of story.

PS "Dennis quote" is a mistake. It should read Denis quote, with one 'N', tut tut, do watch those quotes lol

Edited by Denis Pointing
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I give as I receive Bernice, where is the "posting etiquette" in Dixie's accusation that I posted "misleading inferences" against her? Read the post, I did no such thing. Dixie misquoted and I corrected the mistake, end of story.

PS "Dennis quote" is a mistake. It should read Denis quote, with one 'N', tut tut, do watch those quotes lol....

Dennis quote " I make it a rule never to 'quote' without being able to verify, even if I have read the quote in "several JFK books". I guess we all have different standards of research.

I referenced your last line in your previous post......as you are aware or cannot you dicipher..tut tut .....however.....same reference , you.....no matter how it is spelt...we certainly do have different standards of research, most do so kindly,in replying some simply shoot from the hip.....to draw any kind of attention, ok you got it, hope your satisfied......you made your day... tut

B....

Edited by Bernice Moore
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I give as I receive Bernice, where is the "posting etiquette" in Dixie's accusation that I posted "misleading inferences" against her? Read the post, I did no such thing. Dixie misquoted and I corrected the mistake, end of story.

PS "Dennis quote" is a mistake. It should read Denis quote, with one 'N', tut tut, do watch those quotes lol....

Dennis quote " I make it a rule never to 'quote' without being able to verify, even if I have read the quote in "several JFK books". I guess we all have different standards of research.

I referenced your last line in your previous post......as you are aware or cannot you dicipher..tut tut .....however.....same reference , you.....no matter how it is spelt...we certainly do have different standards of research, most do so kindly,in replying some simply shoot from the hip.....to draw any kind of attention, ok you got it, hope your satisfied......you made your day... tut

B....

Bernice, I really cant take this nonsense seriously enough to argue about it. If you really feel my post violated forum etiquette or forum rules in any way then I suggest you contact a moderator. I'm just too old for internet flaming wars or whatever the expression is...

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Thank you Denis, but you were a day late and a dollar short. TOm Scully had already posted this link on this very thread. And note that in posting the link, Mr. Scully saw no need to denigrate the research ability of another member.

Essie Williams does not say "he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else" as stated by Dixie.

Thee is insufficient evidence to justify such a dogmatic assertion, because we do NOT have a transcript of her statement, and the Warren Commission never questioned her.

She actually says "She did not see this person carrying anything" and that she "only got a quick glimpse of Oswald" big difference isn't it. Misquoting testimony, albeit by accident, does not help the cause.

You don't know what SHE said.

We do know that tHe FBI report actually says:

She did not see this person carrying anything and stated she could not furnish any information concerning Oswald or the brown bag he SUPPOSEDLY HAD BEEN CARRYING PRIOR TO HER SEEING HIM

If we are to judge by this report, it seems that -- quick glimpse or curious lingering glance, the FBI agents came away with the distinct impression that Oz was not carrying a bulky brown package at the time this witness observed him.

We do not know how long Essie spent looking at this stranger, but we know that she was immediately curious about him, because she asked her son who this man was.

So we know that she saw him and was immediately curious about him, and we know what the FBI agents inferred from their interview with her.

The FBI agents came away with the distinct impression that Oz was not carrying a bulky brown package at the time this witness observed him.

I think Dixie is much closer to the truth here than Mr. Pointing

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Bernice

Thanks a bunch for posting that FBI Doc. in regard to Essie Williams. I am pleased to finally read it.

Ray....

You are right, in that we really don't know what Essie said, since it was not her direct words...only what the FBI claimed she said. But it does appear that she didn't lie and attempt to just agree with Wesley and Linnie, to help them out/ ....if she didn't actually see LHO carrying a bag.

Thanks!

Dixie

Edited by Dixie Dea
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