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Fred, I wonder...


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In Larry Hanccock's, "Someone Would Hve Talked", Exhibit 1-21 is an HSCA memo from Belford Lawson to Ken Klein. It concerns information on John Martino received from an anonymous informant named "Fred" who said he was associated with Martino through the "import export" business. "Fred" lived in Fort Worth.

Lawson could never call "Fred" back because "Fred" would only call him from pay phones.

In the DPD Archives Box 2, Folder# 6, Item# 9 there is a memo From Detective Anderton concerning his 12/1/63 interview with prisoner Robert Borchgardt (although I believe that this is Richard Borchgardt who stood in one of the lineups with Lee Harvey Oswald).

Borchgardt told Anderton that he had information that four men: E. Dalrymple, Lawrence Miller, Perry Wydell, and Marvin Frazier worked for a man named "Fred", also called "the Big Dago" and "The Goose". "Fred" worked for a group out of Chicago and that he runs stolen cars and guns to Mexico brings back narcotics into the U.S.

The name Lawrence Miller should jump out at you from the LaFontaine's "Oswald Talked" fame.

Borchgardt said that Perry Wydell worked for Ruby as a bouncer some time back.

Stolen cars and guns to Mexico and narcotics back to the U.S. sounds like an import/export business to me.

I wonder if it could be the same "Fred"...

Steve Thomas

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In Larry Hanccock's, "Someone Would Hve Talked", Exhibit 1-21 is an HSCA memo from  Belford Lawson to Ken Klein. It concerns information on John Martino received from an anonymous informant named "Fred" who said he was associated with Martino through the "import export" business. "Fred" lived in Fort Worth.

from ajweberman's site Nodule 19:

The HSCA reported that on October 4, 1977, "an anonymous informant named Fred [Fred Claasen ] called the HSCA several times and indicated a close relationship with the late JOHN V. MARTINO. Fred said that MARTINO told him he 'worked for the CIA,' and that President Kennedy was killed by anti-Castro Cubans. MARTINO said the assassins knew the motorcade route before they went to Dallas." [HSCA Memo Fonzi to Fenton 10.4.77] Author Tony Summers quoted Fred Claasen as having said: "MARTINO said OSWALD wasn't the hit man. He told me 'The anti-Castro types put OSWALD together...OSWALD didn't know who he was working for...He was there to meet his contact at the Texas Theater [the movie house where he was arrested]...They were to meet OSWALD in the theater and get him out of the country then eliminate him. OSWALD made a mistake. There was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him."

Steve Thomas

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In Larry Hanccock's, "Someone Would Hve Talked", Exhibit 1-21 is an HSCA memo from  Belford Lawson to Ken Klein. It concerns information on John Martino received from an anonymous informant named "Fred" who said he was associated with Martino through the "import export" business. "Fred" lived in Fort Worth.

from ajweberman's site Nodule 19:

The HSCA reported that on October 4, 1977, "an anonymous informant named Fred [Fred Claasen ] called the HSCA several times and indicated a close relationship with the late JOHN V. MARTINO. Fred said that MARTINO told him he 'worked for the CIA,' and that President Kennedy was killed by anti-Castro Cubans. MARTINO said the assassins knew the motorcade route before they went to Dallas." [HSCA Memo Fonzi to Fenton 10.4.77] Author Tony Summers quoted Fred Claasen as having said: "MARTINO said OSWALD wasn't the hit man. He told me 'The anti-Castro types put OSWALD together...OSWALD didn't know who he was working for...He was there to meet his contact at the Texas Theater [the movie house where he was arrested]...They were to meet OSWALD in the theater and get him out of the country then eliminate him. OSWALD made a mistake. There was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him."

Steve Thomas

While Martino almost certainly was involved, and while Claasen probably had some insight into Martino's involvement, the comment about the Texas Theater strikes me as incorrect. (Claasen is probably just guessing.) The Texas Theater is not on a direct line between Oswald's rooming house and the Tippitt shooting site, but would be the logical place to run to should one desire to get off the street. Jack Ruby's apartment, on the other hand, WAS another half a mile or so further along the route between the rooming house and the Tippitt site. It could very well be that that's where Oswald was headed.

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  • 3 years later...
In Larry Hanccock's, "Someone Would Hve Talked", Exhibit 1-21 is an HSCA memo from Belford Lawson to Ken Klein. It concerns information on John Martino received from an anonymous informant named "Fred" who said he was associated with Martino through the "import export" business. "Fred" lived in Fort Worth.

from ajweberman's site Nodule 19:

The HSCA reported that on October 4, 1977, "an anonymous informant named Fred [Fred Claasen ] called the HSCA several times and indicated a close relationship with the late JOHN V. MARTINO. Fred said that MARTINO told him he 'worked for the CIA,' and that President Kennedy was killed by anti-Castro Cubans. MARTINO said the assassins knew the motorcade route before they went to Dallas." [HSCA Memo Fonzi to Fenton 10.4.77] Author Tony Summers quoted Fred Claasen as having said: "MARTINO said OSWALD wasn't the hit man. He told me 'The anti-Castro types put OSWALD together...OSWALD didn't know who he was working for...He was there to meet his contact at the Texas Theater [the movie house where he was arrested]...They were to meet OSWALD in the theater and get him out of the country then eliminate him. OSWALD made a mistake. There was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him."

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Very interesting thought. Have you found any links between Claasen and the Chicago mob? Any hint of use of nicknames such as those suggested by Borchgardt?

The only thing I could suggest that may go against this theory is that Fred (Claasen?), according to Borchgadt, would have been instrumental in arranging for Ruby to carry out the hit on Oswald. If "Fred" was Claasen, why would he then turn around and draw attention to himself by informing on Martino?

Borchgardt told Anderton that he had information that four men: E. Dalrymple, Lawrence Miller, Perry Wydell, and Marvin Frazier worked for a man named "Fred", also called "the Big Dago" and "The Goose". "Fred" worked for a group out of Chicago and that he runs stolen cars and guns to Mexico brings back narcotics into the U.S.

"E. Dalrymple" is reported in Oswald Talked and other publications as being "Elvis Dalrymple". In the Anderton note, Elvis is listed as 38 years old.

I have been looking into the Borchgardt claims periodically for a few years, as personally, I put a far greater premium on them then certain other sensational claims made over the years.

FWIW, I recently found a news item about the arrest of an "Elvis Dalrymple" age 38 in 1962 for a brutal murder in Lubbock. Five others were involved, including 3 females - one being his wife.

None of the other names are among those mentioned by Borchgardt, but I do wonder if this murder was somehow connected to the cars/weapons/narco trade? The FBI was involved in the arrest, but presumably only because he was arrested interstate.

The victim was listed as JR Castle, a 46yo Lubbock carpenter. He had been badly beaten and shot multiple times.

Others arrested were: June Dalrymple, Richard LeLong, Mary Grizzle (aka Mary DeLong), Jim Hammonds, and another female whose name was not released.

Have not been able to find out any more like what happened at trial etc.

Maybe someone else can do a bit of further digging to see if it was in fact related to Mexico "import-Export" trade? If it was - I think that's a significant step closer to verification on what was told to Anderton.

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In Larry Hanccock's, "Someone Would Hve Talked", Exhibit 1-21 is an HSCA memo from  Belford Lawson to Ken Klein. It concerns information on John Martino received from an anonymous informant named "Fred" who said he was associated with Martino through the "import export" business. "Fred" lived in Fort Worth.

from ajweberman's site Nodule 19:

The HSCA reported that on October 4, 1977, "an anonymous informant named Fred [Fred Claasen ] called the HSCA several times and indicated a close relationship with the late JOHN V. MARTINO. Fred said that MARTINO told him he 'worked for the CIA,' and that President Kennedy was killed by anti-Castro Cubans. MARTINO said the assassins knew the motorcade route before they went to Dallas." [HSCA Memo Fonzi to Fenton 10.4.77] Author Tony Summers quoted Fred Claasen as having said: "MARTINO said OSWALD wasn't the hit man. He told me 'The anti-Castro types put OSWALD together...OSWALD didn't know who he was working for...He was there to meet his contact at the Texas Theater [the movie house where he was arrested]...They were to meet OSWALD in the theater and get him out of the country then eliminate him. OSWALD made a mistake. There was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him."

Steve Thomas

While Martino almost certainly was involved, and while Claasen probably had some insight into Martino's involvement, the comment about the Texas Theater strikes me as incorrect. (Claasen is probably just guessing.) The Texas Theater is not on a direct line between Oswald's rooming house and the Tippitt shooting site, but would be the logical place to run to should one desire to get off the street. Jack Ruby's apartment, on the other hand, WAS another half a mile or so further along the route between the rooming house and the Tippitt site. It could very well be that that's where Oswald was headed.

Well!

We know that "June" needed a new pair of shoes!

Perhaps LHO need some as well.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer_j.htm

Mr. BREWER - He just looked funny to me. Well, in the first place, I had seen him some place before. I think he had been in my store before. And when you wait on somebody, you recognize them, and he just seemed funny. His hair was sort of messed up and looked like he had been running, and he looked seared, and he looked funny.

--------------------------------------------------------

I do believe that the "Oswald" family had a history related to shoe sales.

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Greg,

quote name='Greg Parker' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:58 AM' post='148304']

Steve,

Very interesting thought. Have you found any links between Claasen and the Chicago mob? Any hint of use of nicknames such as those suggested by Borchgardt?

No, I haven't, but I've been on the lookout ever since.

The only thing I could suggest that may go against this theory is that Fred (Claasen?), according to Borchgadt, would have been instrumental in arranging for Ruby to carry out the hit on Oswald. If "Fred" was Claasen, why would he then turn around and draw attention to himself by informing on Martino?

That's a good point.

Borchgardt told Anderton that he had information that four men: E. Dalrymple, Lawrence Miller, Perry Wydell, and Marvin Frazier worked for a man named "Fred", also called "the Big Dago" and "The Goose". "Fred" worked for a group out of Chicago and that he runs stolen cars and guns to Mexico brings back narcotics into the U.S.

I have wondered if Borchgart named the four men who were in that motel room doing a gun deal with Ruby that was in Oswald Talked

"E. Dalrymple" is reported in Oswald Talked and other publications as being "Elvis Dalrymple". In the Anderton note, Elvis is listed as 38 years old.

I have been looking into the Borchgardt claims periodically for a few years, as personally, I put a far greater premium on them then certain other sensational claims made over the years.

I do too.

FWIW, I recently found a news item about the arrest of an "Elvis Dalrymple" age 38 in 1962 for a brutal murder in Lubbock. Five others were involved, including 3 females - one being his wife.

None of the other names are among those mentioned by Borchgardt, but I do wonder if this murder was somehow connected to the cars/weapons/narco trade? The FBI was involved in the arrest, but presumably only because he was arrested interstate.

The victim was listed as JR Castle, a 46yo Lubbock carpenter. He had been badly beaten and shot multiple times.

Others arrested were: June Dalrymple, Richard LeLong, Mary Grizzle (aka Mary DeLong), Jim Hammonds, and another female whose name was not released.

Have not been able to find out any more like what happened at trial etc.

Maybe someone else can do a bit of further digging to see if it was in fact related to Mexico "import-Export" trade? If it was - I think that's a significant step closer to verification on what was told to Anderton.

And if someone does do some digging, see if the name Michel Caron pops up.

From the January 21, 2006 blog:

I HAVE SOME SECRETS FOR YOU

By Maurice Philipps

http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/

"On October 10 1963, at the Mexico-United States border, the U.S. Customs officers search Caron's car and, by luck, discover 35 kilograms of heroine. At a market price of one million dollars a kilogram, this 35 millions seizure is the second most important of U.S. history. Submitted to a persuasive interrogatory, and confident that he, his wife and his four children will be protected, Caron starts to confess. First, Caron denounces his Quebec's accomplices and, finally, their chief, the recipient of the merchandise, Lucien Rivard himself."

Steve Thomas

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