Zapruder Film Alteration

[Jason Vermeer]

I always thought it would have been great to contact a photogrammetrist or a forensic image analysis expert with regards to the question "Has the Z film been altered?". I'm not sure this was done in either the "alterationist" or "non-alterationist" camps over the years but I know what was occuring...a lot of cyber shouting and ad-hominem attacks. Same names too. I gather those experts are hard to get ahold of?

Jason Vermeer

[Jack White]

Lest we forget Roland Zavada quick decesion to NOT participate in the 2003 UnivofMinn Z-film Synposium.

The BAD GUYS keep on ducking - I suspect it's because they haven't a clue regarding the subject matter... to much VESTED interest in the single bullet theory, which of course is a pure LN wet dream

Dave -

-Talking about ducking I'm still waiting for you to tell me about;

1) Any movies made around the time of the assassination (or even a few years later in light of Frank's post) that were altered in a way similar to the Z-film.

2) Any work you've done (not read about, done) involving composites using technology similar to what was available back then.

-Do you think distorting the truth will get you anywhere: Obviously "the Bad Guys" (Tink and Groden etc.) don't back the LNT or SBT

- The "non-alterationists" say that Zavaada authenticated the Z-film what's YOUR spin?

You know nothing about movies and movie production if you

are not aware of MARY POPPINS, made at the time of the

assassination, which was full of award-winning special effects.

You know nothing about the history of special effects if you

are unaware that they go back to the early 1900s and that

Disney was doing all sorts of special effects in the thirties

and forties. Song of the South and The Three Caballeros

come to mind immediately. You really should know the

answer if you dare ask such questions.

As for David Healy's experience, read TGZFH. He has years

of experience in film and video production.

When you don't know what you are talking about, it is

not wise to ask foolish questions.

Jack

[Jason Vermeer]

As quickly as you can say "Great Odin's Raven!!", Jack adds the exclamation point to my post just above his. A non-alterationist will offer quick response to be sure...I'll say it again...It would be great to contract the services of a photogrammetrist or forensic photo analysist for either side.

Jason Vermeer

[Tim Gratz]

Part of the problem is that the entire theory strains logic.

How would the conspirators find such a large amount of people to go along with the assassination of the president?

And they had people poised to grab and alter any movie film of the assassination? And, presumably, do the same to the body?

The idea that there could be a massive conspiracy where literally dozens of people had to be recruited beforehand is quite difficult to swallow. It is very, very hard to believe that not a single one of the recruitees would have objected to being an accessory to the assassination of the president.

On this basis alone, my answer to the question posed by this thread would be "No".

Edited December 15, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[David G. Healy]

Part of the problem is that the entire theory strains logic.

How would the conspirators find such a large amount of people to go along with the assassination of the president?

And they had people poised to grab and alter any movie film of the assassination? And, presumably, do the same to the body?

The idea that there could be a massive conspiracy where literally dozens of people had to be recruited beforehand is quite difficult to swallow. It is very, very hard to believe that not a single one of the recruitees would have objected to being an accessory to the assassination of the president.

On this basis alone, my answer to the question posed by this thread would be "No".

part of the problem is YOU strain logic --

"...people poised?" What the hell are you talking about?

Edited December 15, 2005 by David G. Healy

[Tim Gratz]

I mean there were people in Dallas all ready and trained to obtain any movie film of the assassination and alter it.

Is that clear enough?

[Jason Vermeer]

Let's try to stick with what we have before us...it's a simple problem. The film was altered or it was not.

Tim, I would say to you that there is at least a semblance of some alteration with regards to stills. The backyard photo, IMHO, is a prime example. The "houndsnout" artifact and the ovoids beneath Oswalds feet appear, on the surface, to indicate matte work or retouching at least. A lot of focus was initially put on the chin...again, a forensic image analysis expert would be especially helpful here AND in regards to the Zapruder film. A photogrammetrist would also be helpful with the Z film. I would argue as well that it would be HARDER to alter but much of the picture data could feasibly be measured scientifically for its integrity.

I am NOT a photo expert and that is likely apparent but needs to be known. What I am saying is that this is a process that necessitates the most scientific and stringent principles applied before pronouncing the film genuine or altered and I feel it CAN be done...There are, however, a lot of egos at stake at this juncture. Something to chew on anyway...

Jason Vermeer

[Jack White]

Please educate yourself on MOVIE SPECIAL EFFECTS HISTORY before

continuing. Just google MOVIE SPECIAL EFFECTS HISTORY and the first

history on the list is very good:

http://utminers.utep.edu/lacarrera/history.htm

Then come back and tell us what you learned.

Jack

[Tim Gratz]

Good post, Jason. As usual.

********************************************

So Spielberg and Lucas have alibis?

Edited December 15, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Bernice Moore]

Bernice, while I don't claim to be an expert on the history of the Zapruder film, I do know that the window of opportunity for any kind of alteration was very brief. There is the original film, which was purchased by Life, which had a few frames removed, most likely by accident. And then there is the Secret Service version, which is a copy made from the original before the frames were lost. The film is identical, except for the extra frames. Since the frames of the shot sequence of the Zapruder film were included in the Warren Report's 26 volumes, this means they had less than a year to fake the film. And then there's the fact that the frames printed in Life Magazine within a week of the assassination are all in the current film and all appear consistent with the current film. So, if it was faked, when was it faked, how was it faked, who faked it, and why was if faked? I don't know if this can be answered satisfactorily.

As to your other questions, I'll try to better explain myself. The vast majority of so-called "medical evidence" you will find on the assassination is not medical evidence at all, but eyewitness evidence. Arguing about who saw what and when and going back and interviewing people forty years after the fact is interesting, but not all that productive, IMO. I decided to read articles on forensic pathology, and to find out what x-rays of gun shot wounds actually looked like, etc. And I found a lot of things that should have been found years ago, but were not, due in large part IMO, to so many people spending their energy looking into alteration. One example of this is Gary Aguilar's focus on eyewitness testimony but complete disregard for the absolute deception employed by Baden et al regarding the so-called "mystery photo". Another example of this is David Mantik's concession to the lone-nut crowd that the physical evidence if it has not been altered is a slam-dunk case against Oswald. (I hope that he doesn't really believe this.) And then there's Harrison Livingstone's contention of the missing face in the x-rays, which he would have known is complete bunk if he'd spent one day looking through radiology texts. Ultimately, I believe all these men were seduced by the concept of "alteration", and their desire to catch the government pulling a fast one...

When you read my presentation, I think you'll see what I mean. Thanks for being open-minded enough to take a look.

Pat

*******************

Hi Pat:

Thanks for the reply...in answer, I have found some information re the Zapruder film and also

the medical end that perhaps you may be interested in...

IMO whomever ,they had all the time needed, before the frames were shown in the WR, and in Life to have altered the head shot area of the film by editing, I take it you thought I meant they changed the whole thing, I simply do not know enough about filming.....but apparently, they did cut the filming of the limo, turning the corner, and some ,Life said frames were accidentally destroyed, so we know, it is not the full film.....but aside from the others areas, and there are some ,that have found within their studies of the background and other areas of the film have been changed, and that is their findings and their perogative, as your study is .... I only know what I have studied, and in some areas, it certainly has seemed that it could have been... I have studied the Zapruder for years many, to the point at times where I stop and put it away for a time....but that is not what I refer to, it is the head shot area.....those few frames...the wounds we see, are not what was reported at Parkland, I notice that you mention the talking to witnesses 40 years later, I do read what many of them say now, but it is first day evidence and first reports that I follow and research.....the initial reactions,statements and information.....and what is shown on the Zapruder film head shot area, is not what was reported that first day, at Parkland, and not what the witnesses informed us of ,who were closest and what information they related as to where the shots came from..

You mention that the Zapruder film that you have studied is flowing and even, it was not always this way......perhaps you are studying the MPI, and or the Groden's latest........but the old copies of the Zapruder that we see on the old video tapes, and some on the web are anything but as you have described.. This is what MPI did, that is their business, they created the best possible, though they left some frames out, an even flowing copy of the Zapruder film....but that is not as it used to be.......if that is what you have only used, may I suggest respectfully, that you obtain older jerky, non flowing copies of the Zapruder film, and study the head shot area specifically..

In July 98 when the MPI was released and copies of such were received there were what we could call, image alterations employed in the form of "digital enhancements"....a man by the name of Todd Murphy of THERE TV explained...how he had "stabilized" the video by removing jiggles within the film, and had made other clarifications and enhancements, which could and probably included sharpening the focus of segments of the frames that were inconsistent within frames and improved the colour properties within the frames,when perhaps not in harmony...so what we see in the MPI is not what we see in the old copies of the Zapruder film..

I do not basically agree, that there were only two shooters from the back, and that is what you are saying..unless I am reading incorrectly..? there were shots from the grassy knoll, from first day reports on film by Peter Watson of KLIF, lets take just two.on Nov 22/63//that same afternoon....Mary Moorman, who shortly after the assassination,was interviewed on Television and stated that "she took her film"..and that "shots were still firing"..and that she laid down as she was in "the line of fire" and we know where Mary was situated....W.E. "Bill "Newman Jr. and family who also were inteviewed by Peter on film, stated..the shots came" from behind them, up on the mall, the top of the hill garden, back up there"..and they threw themselves on the ground to protect their two sons......they are on tape, and they can be ignored, but it does not change the fact that there were people within 15 feet from the limo, that stated shots came from the fence area, and also stated they got down because they were in the line of fire, that cannot be erased, left out nor forgotten so that whatever findings a researcher does within his or her particular area, complies with what he has found to his or her satisfaction..to perhaps fit his or her theory....

The first day filming and statements and interviews cannot just be put aside...there is a wonderful Video tape, called "Rush to Judgement" by Mark Lane, that presents the interviews of many of the witnesses, this was made in February 1964....when their memories were very sharp..and had not begun to fade....and also when Press Sec. Malcolm Kilduff, at Parkland came to the microphone, and made the announcement that JFK was dead, and pointed to his forehead in the exact area we see an entrance wound, "he died from a gun shot to the head."....he stated and points to that exact spot....so when reviewing this information and the Doctors and nurses information from Parkland, there had to be a blow out to the back of the head, and no large wound blown open on the top of the head, that was not reported by anyone first day at Parkland, and that, is not what we see in the Zapruder film, and I would like to know why not ??

Even Abraham Zapruder himself stated.

At 9:55 p.m. Dallas time on November 22..United States PRS Special Agent Maxwell D. Phillips sent a hand-written memo (Warren Commission Document, CD87) to U.S. Secret Service Chief James Rowley that accompanied one of the first generation copies said of Zapruder's origins of at least one shot, "According to Mr Zapruder the position of the assassin was behind Mr Zapruder." Behind Mr. Zapruder was the Dealey Plaza grassy knoll However, (by the time) in his testimony to the Warren Commission Zapruder was less certain..

Personally I research into first day evidence, not 40 years later, as all our memories dim over time...I also have always seen more than two shots from the back, therefore at least three shooters, as unless there were,there would have been no Tague shot...nor a sewer hit on the South side.....nor a North sidewalk hit...nor anyone in the line of fire..There were many shots IMO..All this was not possible by one man alone..as it is impossible for any one man or two from the back only, to shoot both from the front and the back.....LHO could not have ever accomplished this alone, if he did fire any that day, and from the evidence that is available now and the findings, there is no positive proof he did so, perhaps if the WC had allowed him Council, as was allowed at the Neuremburg Trials for dead Nazi war criminals, we would today have much more information than they issued, but seeing that they searched no further for any evidence other than what would find him guilty as the lone assassin, it is all a could have been...

I believe Pat that you are perhaps taking what Dr.D.Mantik stated out of context....

Pat: ""Another

example of this is David Mantik's concession to the lone-nut crowd that

the physical evidence if it has not been altered is a slam-dunk case

against Oswald. (I hope that he doesn't really believe this.)""

What he says in, "Murder in Dealey Plaza"..page..220

""If the evidence in the JFK case is merely accepted at Face Value, then the conclusions are rather trivial. The rookie Scotland Yard imspector can easily solve this case......It was Oswald alone. The real challenge is to assess the credibility of the evidence. Vincent Bugliosi ,the former Los Angeles County prosecutor of Charles Manson ( and winner of virtually all of his other cases) still maintains that Oswald did it. He is even writing a book that will attempt to prove this. I have advised him that if he ignores this fundamental issue of evidence reliability then real communication between partisans across this chasm is unlikely to be advanced.""

This was written in 2000, as we know, many have and are still awaiting Bugliosi's work, which still has not been released, I do wonder what difficulites he has found within his studies, and has found it is not all so simple ,that LHO alone was guilty.

There were not just a few frames removed, within the Zapruder film..there was the beginning of the limo entrance onto Elm, and there were several that Life damaged...that is far from a few..the WR was not released till I believe Sept 64, there was plenty of time to alter the area of the head shots, that is what I am referring to..you refer to the Life magazine being printed within a week....that was plenty of time to alter the head shot area,by editing...Why was it faked as you call it.?.I believe perhaps in the beginning when this was done it was to remove images of what did occur that showed there was more then one shooter and more than three shots, and shots from the front ,therefore they had multiple gunmen involved and it proved conspiracy..Once the frames were printed in the Life magazine, they were stuck, in otherwards..and further when they were released within the WCR.......they had altered it, by at least editing the head shots frames area,and had to stick by it...and so during the years that have followed, they have had it worked on so that today we have as with MPI, a free flowing ,great looking steady film..but that is not what we have seen in the past..

There is the one frame, within the Zapruder film # 337 within the head shot area,I will post below...where we can see Jackie's left shoulder through his head, but as we know that area was not blown away...it is very crude in that particular area, there are too many things wrong within the film and the head shots, Connally moves too quickly, Greer's head turns move too quickly, we do not see Connally starting to turn to his left, then he goes down too quickly, this all has been proven by researchers and qualified that it is humanly impossible for people to move at this speed...and it shows that the head shot area was altered by editing out of frames, on the film...... after the last shot, as Jackie is getting up and onto the back of the trunk, her movements are also impossible for a human being, as they are done much too quickly..this all occurs within a couple of seconds..

They certainly had the ability to edit films back then, that is no secret, how was it faked, they took frames out and that created the jerky, too quick movements of all...there has been much research within that area..Somone mentioned or asked, that the name of a study that has been done by someone or ones, who have the experience within the film industry, I found the following information...if interested...

* Dr. Roderick Ryan believes he has discovered that the limousine is actually standing still in Z303 but is moving in Z302, even though the limousine appears to be moving at a nearly uniform speed in the film during this time (Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON, Rancho Santa Fe, CA: Laurel Publishing, 1997, pp. 158-159, 164-165). Notes Noel Twyman,

Experience tells us that the limousine could not have decelerated from 11 miles per hour to a complete stop in 1/18 second. (BLOODY TREASON, p. 165)

Dr. Ryan made this discovery by analyzing the blurring of background images in the two frames. Moreover, Dr. Ryan's son, who also works in motion picture film technology, studied the film and confirmed his father's discovery (BLOODY TREASON, p. 159).

In case some might be wondering about Dr. Ryan's background, he is a retired scientist from Kodak. He holds a Ph.D. from USC, majoring in cinema and communications. He worked for Kodak for 29 years. He spent his entire career in motion picture film technology. He is a recipient of the Scientific and Engineering Award from the Society of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. He has authored numerous books on motion picture technology and several articles on motion picture science. In addition, he is a Fellow of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences and a member of the Committee for Selection of Scientific and Technical Awards, Special Effects, Documentary Films.

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/zfilmalt.htm

Another thought on why was it faked, or why they thought perhaps they could get away with doing such ,could possibley be that they never thought that the research movement would grow, as it did, that perhaps they were the only ones who would be in possession of all information forever ...Perhaps like Dulles they thought no one would read the WC, other than some academics and that the public didn't read, and that they certainly would never study the Zapruder film, why would they?? they were not very intelligent according to him.. I do not think they realized that John Kennedys' assassination would have the effect it did on the people, nor that they would have the wherewithal, nor intelligence to really see that many areas were wrong and did not add up...perhaps they thought he was regarded as just another President, and that it would all die down and if and when the public ever saw the frames, like we did in Life, we would be shocked, and say isn't that terrible and buy it, and I guess at that time we did.......well after all it was Life Magazine, that was to be trusted, then, that they ,the people would put it eventually all away, in the back of their minds, and get on with their lives..All would eventually die down, and he would belong to history and the ages and put in his rightful place in such, and eventually just be a memory..They did not realize the gift he had with the people, that of communication, the touch of class, and how he made them feel, about themselves.....they thought he was just another President and he was replaced by an LBJ..which made it all the more apparent, imo...

Perhaps some people have missed important areas like the testimony of the Doctors and Nurses in Dallas which I think could be perhaps the most important as it does relate to the information seen within the head shot area of the Zapruder film.. --and most neglected aspect by many--of the whole medical case .I don't call the Docs or nurses at Parkland, just eyewitnesses, they were a well trained medical emergency team.

PARKLAND Memorial Hospital, Dallas, treated an average of 272 emergency cases a day, and saw many gunshot wounds..( The Doctors referred to the trauma team as "the knife and gun club." ).It was

adjacent to and was the major teaching hospital for the University of Texas Southwestern Medical

School. It was staffed by the faculty of the medical school and had 150 interns and residents in

all medical specialties... one of the few within the US at the time, that had this type of groups arranged for this type of emergency, they saw on a daily basis, gun shot wounds, knifings etc.. the statements they made were not of a ordinary citizen witness, who were 15 feet away from the auto....when they spoke they gave their medical information, therefore it is a part of that area of evidence...They gave their findings on the immediate condition of his body when received in the Trauma room 1..if not there would have not been a phone call from a Bethesda Doc to one at Parkland...we cannot ignore what they said and or the reports they made, it is medical..and Bethesda certainly did not.....it has become well known through the years that Southwestern and the Government have not been what you could call subtle about their need for the Doctors, who were in attendance, to keep quiet and to not divulge what they saw,and heard that weekend in November...1963

A list of some of the Doctors who treated JFK follows...From Dr.Crenshaw's :"JFK Conspiracy of Silence" and or his updated "Trauma Room One."

Dr.G Shires, who became chief of surgery of Cornell Univ. Med school...and then chief of surgery at Texas Tech Medical ,

Dr. Malcolm Perry, who became professor of surgery and chief of vascular services at Vanderbilt Univ.Med.School, Nashville..and then professor and chief of vascular surgery at Texas Tech Univ.Med school..

Dr.Charles R.Baxter and Dr.Robert N McClelland professors of surgery at Southwestern Med school.

Dr.Charles J.Carrico chairman of the dept of surgery at Parkland and Southwestern Med school.

Dr.Ronald Jones chief of general surgery at Baylor Med Center.

Dr.Charles Crenshaw clinical professor of surgery at Southwestern Med. school...and director and chairman of Dept of surgery at John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth.

Some of this staff did research in a fellowship under Dr.Shires...in which they eventually made medical history by discovering that death from hemorrhagic shock ( blood loss )can be due primarily to the body's adjunctive depletin of internal salt water into the cells....almost 30 years later ,Drs. Joseph L.Goldsetin and Michael S.Brown at Southwestern Med School ,gained and made medical history by winning the Nobel Prize for their research into cholesterol metabolism...I am posting this information, to show that this medical staff was not some run of the mill, everyday, Doctor as some may believe..nor was the Hospital by any means...the medical information and statements made by them on the wounds of the President must be taken seriously, by any given study within the medical area..

The following is information from

"Three Patients at Parkland"

"Texas State Journal of Medicine, dated January 1964.and written in late November / early December,1963...before the official story was set in stone.This was on JFKs wounds......and was posted by Michael Parks....a long time ago, there is no link...

Charles J Carrico - Dr. Carrico was the first physician to see the President. A 1961 graduate

of Southwestern Medical School, he is 28 and a resident in surgery at Parkland.

He reported that when the patient entered the emergency room on an ambulance carriage he had

slow agonal respiratory efforts and occasional cardiac beats detectable by auscultation. Two

external wounds were noted; one a small wound of the anterior neck in the lower one third. The

other wound had caused avulsion of the occipitoparietal calvarium and shredded brain tissue was

present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were bilaterally

dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted through the laryngoscope. A ragged

wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was advanced past the

laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration was instituted using a respirator assistor on

automatic cycling. Concurrently, an intravenous infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was

begun via catheter placed in the right leg. Blood was drawn for typing and crossmatching. Type

0 Rh negative blood was obtained immediately.

In view of the tracheal injury and diminished breath sounds in the right chest, tracheostomy

was performed by Dr. Malcolm 0. Perry and bilateral chest tubes inserted. A second intravenous

infusion was begun in the left arm. In addition, Dr. M. T. Jenkins began respiration with the

anesthesia machine, cardiac monitor and stimulator attached. Solu-Cortef (300 mg.) was given

intravenously. Despite those measures, blood pressure never returned. Only brief

electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity was obtained.

Malcolm 0. Perry - Dr. Perry is an assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical

School from which he received his degree in 1955. He is 34 years old and was certified by the

American Board of Surgery in 1963.

At the time of initial examination of the President, Dr. Perry has stated, the patient was

noted to be nonresponsive . His eyes were deviated and the pupils dilated. A considerable

quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage, and the floor. A small wound was

noted in the midline of the neck in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A

large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain

tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.

Pulse or heart beat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An

endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being controlled. An intravenous infusion

was being placed in the leg. While additional venesections were done to administer fluids and

blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The

cuffed tracheostomy tube was put in place as the endotracheal tube was withdrawn and

respirations continued. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of

sealed-drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. When electrocardiogram evaluation revealed

that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart, resuscitative attempts were

abandoned. The team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.

Charles R. Baxter - Dr. Baxter is an assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical

School where he first arrived as a medical student in 1950. Except for two years away in the

Army he has been at Southwestern and Parkland ever since, moving up from student to intern to

resident to faculty member. He is 34 and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963.

Recalling his attendance to President Kennedy, he says he learned at approximately 12 :35

that the President was on the way to the emergency room and that he had been shot. When Dr.

Baxter arrived in the emergency room, he found an endotracheal tube in place and respirations

being assisted. A left chest tube was being inserted and cut-downs were functioning in one leg

and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the midline of the neck. On first

observation of the other wounds, portions of the right temporal and occipital bones were missing

and some of the brain was lying on the table. The rest of the brain was extensively macerated

and contused. The pupils were fixed and deviated laterally and were dilated. No pulse was

detectable and ineffectual respirations were being assisted. A tracheostomy was performed by

Dr. Perry and Dr. Baxter and a chest tube was inserted into the right chest (second interspace

anteriorly). Meanwhile one pint of O negative blood was administered without response. When

all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Closed chest massage was

performed until a cardioscope could be attached. Brief cardiac activity was obtained followed

by no activity. Due to the extensive and irreparable brain damage which existed and since there

were no signs of life, no further attempts were made at resuscitation.

Robert N. McClelland - Dr. McClelland, 34, assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern

Medical School, is a graduate of the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. He has

served with the Air Force in Germany and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963.

Regarding the assassination of President Kennedy, Dr. McClelland says that at approximately

12:35 p.m. he was called from the second floor of the hospital to the emergency room. When he

arrived, President Kennedy was being attended by Drs. Perry, Baxter, Carrico, and Ronald Jones,

chief resident in surgery. The President was at that time comatose from a massive gunshot wound

of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube had been placed and

assisted respiration started by Dr. Carrico who was on duty in the emergency room when the

President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and McClelland performed a tracheostomy for respiratory

distress and tracheal injury. Dr. Jones and Dr. Paul Peters, assistant professor of surgery, ;

inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoraces secondary to the tracheo-mediastinal

injury. Dr. Jones and assistants had started three cutdowns, giving blood and fluids

immediately. In spite of this, the President was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. by Dr. Clark, the

neurosurgeon, who arrived immediately after Dr. McClelland. The cause of death, according to

Dr. McClelland was the massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the right side of

the head. The President was pronounced dead after external cardiac massage failed and

electrocardiographic activity was gone.

Fouad A, Bashour - Dr. Bashour received his medical education at the University of Beirut

School of Medicine in Lebanon. He is 39 and an associate professor of medicine in cardiology at

Southwestern Medical School.

At 12 :50 p.m. Dr. Bashour was called from the first floor of the hospital and told that

President Kennedy had been shot. He and Dr. Donald Seldin, professor and chairman of the

Department of Internal Medicine, went to the emergency room. Upon examination, they found that

the President had no pulsations, no heart beats, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a

complete standstill. The President was declared dead at 1:00 p.m.

William Kemp Clark - Dr. Clark is associate professor and chairman of the Division of

Neurosurgery at Southwestern Medical School. The 38-year-old physician has done research on

head injuries and has been at Southwestern since 1956.

He reports this account of the President's treatment:

The President arrived at the emergency room entrance in the back seat of his limousine.

Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was

Dr. Carrico.

Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agonal respiratory efforts. He could hear a

heart beat but found no pulse or blood pressure. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of

the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head

wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube and

while doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx.

At this time, Drs. Perry, Baxter, and Jones arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. Jenkins and

Drs. A. H. Giesecke, Jr., and Jackie H. Hunt, two other staff anesthesiologists, arrived. The

endotracheal tube had been connected to a respirator to assist the President's breathing. An

anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100 per cent oxygen was

administered.

A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein.

An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for typing and

crossmatching, but unmatched type O Rh negative blood was immediately obtained and begun.

Hydrocortisone (300

mg.) was added to the intravenous fluids.

Dr. McClelland arrived to help in the President's care. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and McClelland

did a tracheostomy. Considerable quantities of blood were present in the President's oral

pharynx. At this time, Dr. Peters and Dr. Clark arrived.

Dr. Clark noted that the President had bled profusely from the back of the head. There was a

large (3 by 3 cm.) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of

cerebellar tissue present also.

The tracheostomy was completed and the endotracheal tube was withdrawn. Suction was used to

remove blood in the oral pharynx. A nasogastric tube was passed into the stomach. Because of

the likelihood of mediastinal injury, anterior chest tubes were placed in both pleural spaces.

These were connected to sealed underwater drainage.

Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dilated and fixed to

light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal

was present. No deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found.

When Dr. Clark noted that there was no carotid pulse, he began closed chest massage. A pulse

was obtained at the carotid and femoral levels.

Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so that Dr. Clark could evaluate the head wound.

There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region.

Much of the right posterior skull, at brief examination, appeared gone. The previously

described extruding brain was present. Profuse bleeding had occurred and 1500 cc. of blood was

estimated to be on the drapes and floor of the emergency operating room. Both cerebral and

cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.

By this time an electrocardiograph was hooked up. There was brief electrical activity of the

heart which soon stopped.

The President was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. by Dr. Clark.

M. T. Jenkins - Dr. Jenkins is professor and chairman of the Department of Anesthesiology at

Southwestern Medical School. He is 46, a graduate of the University of Texas Medical Branch in

Galveston, and was certified by the American Board of Anesthesiology in 1952. During World War

II he served in the Navy as a lieutenant commander.

When Dr. Jenkins was notified that the President was being brought to the emergency room at

Parkland, he dispatched Drs. Giesecke and Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative

equipment to the major surgical emergency room area. He ran downstairs to find upon his arrival

in the emergency operating room that Dr. Carrico had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing

an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive

pressure breathing apparatus. Drs. Baxter, Perry, and McClelland arrived at the same time and

began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also

obvious tracheal and chest damage. Drs. Peters and Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately

thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual

closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation. Dr. Jenkins believes it evidence of the

clear thinking of the resuscitative team that the patient received 300 mg. hydrocortisone

intravenously in the first few minutes.

For better control of artificial ventilation, Dr. Jenkins exchanged the intermittent positive

pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation.

Dr. Gene Akin, a resident in anesthesiology, and Dr. Giesecke connected a cardioscope to

determine cardiac activity.

During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in

order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous

vein and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from

the blood bank. All of these activities were completed by approximately 12:50 at which time

external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Dr. Clark as judged by a

palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was only brief electrocardiographic

evidence of cardiac activity.

These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after

they were carried out, attention was turned to other evidences of injury. There was a great

laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the

skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the

extent that part of the right cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also

fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart. With the institution of

adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity,

indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage. President

Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1 p.m.

It is Dr. Jenkins' personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted

expeditiously and efficiently. However, he says, the cranial and intracranial damage was of

such magnitude as to cause irreversible damage.

Their information cannot be left out nor taken lightly in any study, if all is not considered then IMO any study will end up wanting..

I have not, spent years looking for alterations, but I have spent years looking at the evidence, in many areas, what is available, that is...and the longer I have the more of such has not added up... as we gain the knowledge within all, more and more we discover that what they say and what the evidence leads to does not comply..and what they, the others have done is very important, because many have done their research on many specific areas, and without their studies, we would not have known, or have even a smidgen of what information we have today....so whatever their studies have revealed...whether we agree with them or not, that is their perogative and it should be studied and considered as yours should be...

The medical is far from the only important area, as when you put it all together you get the overall picture, that spells out clearly, Conspiracy, and certainly more than one shooter, and Gov involvement, but the Gov will not look at it, nor did they continue as they should have when it was recommended after the HSCA....there were many studies and they all fell flat, as the Gov is not now about to open a new one, if they can get out of it, and they do by ignoring, and having the media bring out the old, once a year, LHO, and admit now to a possible conspiracy...of a second shooter, but of the Government complicity at the time,

there is never a word.......they were compliant, as they were in charge of all..

The medical is but one area..and there are many..IMO there were no shots that blew out his face, there was a through and through head shot from the front, that blew out to the back of his head...that I can see from all the studying I have done, and a second head shot from the back.....the whomevers, that you think went into this with the set of mind on finding alterations ,I believe that they have based their findings on what they have found within those studies, if that led them to their belief of alterations, then so be it, there have been alterations within the witness testimony, many, so why not in many other areas, and there has been..Also, when a cover-up is put into place, they whomever certainly do not just center on one area...we cannot throw out all the rest of the information, that leads to a cover up and leads to Gov. complicity, and just rely on any one particular study..

Which has been done before by more than qualified Drs. such as Dr.Mantik who is a M.D..Ph.D..in physics a board certified Radiation Oncologist , and has done a pioneering type of work in densitometry in studying the autopsy X-Rays that lead him to the conclusion that they have been altered .He is right now the leading medical expert on the evidence, the best we have in otherwards..and am I pleased he has taken such an interest....We daren't throw out all their work, imo...but should continue, within our own studies as you have done, whether they will stand up to scrutiny or not, it will be made clear eventually, and as we know within a few more years a man or woman by a different name will come along and present their study that will prove yours wrong in their opinion.. that is how is goes..

Imo, we have to keep all in mind and not have a pat theory or a scenario, written in stone, as we have seen in the past, all of a sudden there is a new finding that changes a certain perspective especially today with all the advances that are being made within the scientific and technical world...we would be very backward if we did..

I intend to research within your new study, along with my friends knowlegeable input, I will try to understand to the best of my ability as we did with the others including Dr. Mantik's work... it is a constant learning process, and if you let down your studying for any length of time, you are simply lost...imo..

Thanks for the reply, and your information and thoughts..

Below is frame #337 of the Zapruder that shows Jacqueline's shoulder through his head.. which makes no

sense to me whatever , as he had no such wound..

B..

Edited December 15, 2005 by Bernice Moore

[Jason Vermeer]

Please educate yourself on MOVIE SPECIAL EFFECTS HISTORY before

continuing. Just google MOVIE SPECIAL EFFECTS HISTORY and the first

history on the list is very good:

http://utminers.utep.edu/lacarrera/history.htm

Then come back and tell us what you learned.

Jack

Hi Jack, I googled a site as you requested and found it interesting...I especially liked the quote on this site.."Society has fallen into the futuristic world of the creators of special effects in the movies we watch". With all the discussion about virus activety, I didn't click on your link but did pull up this site as the first listed on google. Robert W. Paul had a background in mechanical engineering and building equipment before building a film projector and movie studio. I probably didn't need to tell you that but were you also aware that a degree in engineering is highly preferred for photogrammetrists? It's a fairly new science but I believe it is essential that claims of non-alteration or alteration be verified by these individuals as well as forensic photographic analysis experts...it could only help establishing the validity of the evidence we all paid for. Don't you agree?

Jason Vermeer

[Thomas Graves]

To me this whole debate is a major distraction from the truth: the Zapruder film and the autopsy photos show convincing evidence for a conspiracy.

____________________________________

As does practically everything else surrounding the case...

____________________________________

[Ed O'Hagan]

cropped and enlarged from Z. frame#311. and then into black and white .

Ed, could you confirm whether it's frame 311 or perhaps 267 we're looking at there? Also could you mention what it is you see there? I realise you probably wish for people to have their own impressions so a no is fine.

John,

It's cropped from Z. frame 311. Preferably I would rather viewers came to their own conclusions. Yes/No are both acceptable responses . I would like to give as many viewers as possible a couple of days to have a look at it. Hopefully, someone will report , " I see ................ ", and if it's not a pink elephant or as one guy once told me , a hidden image of Nero piddling while Rome burned, I'll be more than happy either to provide additional information or to declare myself in agreement. In the meantime , and since you asked, I'll drop you a line or two privately.

Thanks for responding , John... and for a quick look at Z.311 please click on http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z311.jpg

Ed, no worries, I appreciate your approach in carefully looking at these things, perhaps by sharing with opposing starting points we can benefit. We need to establish exactly which frame we're talking about.. As far as I have them numbered the image you have cropped is from frame 267.

John,

I was wrong and you are completely correct. It is indeed #267. However, inasmuch as the same general obfuscated configuration is maintained right through to #313, the basic challenge to visual perception remains unchanged. I had originally intended to post #311 as well to show an additional point of interest, and then I decided not to include it due to the fact that it is not as clear as #267, although it contains the same basic constituent elements. However, I'll show it now so that viewers make take a closer look at it.

The picture on the right was cropped directly from Z.311, then enlarged slightly, brightened, and finally changed into black and white to produce the picture on the left.

Edited December 15, 2005 by Ed O'Hagan

[Len Colby]

You know nothing about movies and movie production if you

are not aware of MARY POPPINS, made at the time of the

assassination, which was full of award-winning special effects.

You know nothing about the history of special effects if you

are unaware that they go back to the early 1900s and that

Disney was doing all sorts of special effects in the thirties

and forties. Song of the South and The Three Caballeros

come to mind immediately. You really should know the

answer if you dare ask such questions.

Jack people normally ask questions when they don't know the answer!! I'll try to find the movies you mentioned down here and watch them with my kids this weekend. The question is not whether special effects existed back then or even earlier but 1) whether the alterations of the type you and the other contributors to the GZFH allege were made to the Z-film were possible and 2) if such alterations could have been done so seamlessly that even today the aren't readily apparent. I guess if I'm ignorant about film history Pat's friend Mark Sobel, who has directed dozens of movies, is too because he also doesn't believe such alteration was possible at the time

As for David Healy's experience, read TGZFH. He has years

of experience in film and video production.

Yes but does he have experience with composite filmmaking? His experience with video of course would NOT be applicable. Also has he ever produced composites as undetectable as the Z-film. If he posted a few frames the question would be settled.

Jack you still haven’t answered my questions on the 9-11 and John-John threads, I guess you’re still too busy!!!!

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=48224 see posts 32 – 41

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=42347

Edited December 15, 2005 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

I always thought it would have been great to contact a photogrammetrist or a forensic image analysis expert with regards to the question "Has the Z film been altered?". I'm not sure this was done in either the "alterationist" or "non-alterationist" camps over the years but I know what was occuring...a lot of cyber shouting and ad-hominem attacks. Same names too. I gather those experts are hard to get ahold of?

Jason Vermeer

I agree, to me it sems more incumbant on the "alerationists" they are the ones making contraversial claims that have little support even with in the JFK Assassination comunity. Also they are the ones with an economic interest in finding such expert backing for their claims, I'm sure it would increase book sales, wouldn't it have made sense for them or the publisher to pay for such a study if the results were likely to be favorable? Such experts don't come cheap, what's the incentive for Josiah Thompson or other "non-alterationists" to spend their own money on such an expert?