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Pres. John F. Kennedy (days prior to 11/22)


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Just came back from NARA and went through more papers.

What I found started me prior to 11/22/63 I had known that he was in Florida prior and many talked about the fact that there is where they first planned to kill JFK.

What was prior to even that is more of an eye raising to me. That he was on two trips close to each other one is not much of discussion or discription to where JFK was at just that he was on the Maryland and Delaware border. Nothing more of a real discription of where he was at and just before that one was Philadelphia PA.

Does anyone know more details of those two locations and or what they were about?

I do know that one of the first acts that JFK was to do was to give out a medal to Andrew Wyeth for one of the meanings of his paintings that is so up against racial feelings that the black do go through. He depicted that in one of his paintings.

Wonder if that does in fact has some bearing on why also JFK was shot?

Well if anyone knows love to hear your details of what those two meetings were about that JFK done prior to 11/22/63.

IT was eight days prior.

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Just came back from NARA and went through more papers.

What I found started me prior to 11/22/63 I had known that he was in Florida prior and many talked about the fact that there is where they first planned to kill JFK.

What was prior to even that is more of an eye raising to me.  That he was on two trips close to each other one is not much of discussion or discription to where JFK was at just that he was on the Maryland and Delaware border.  Nothing more of a real discription of where he was at and just before that one was Philadelphia PA.

Does anyone know more details of those two locations and or what they were about?

I do know that one of the first acts that JFK was to do was to give out a medal to Andrew Wyeth for one of the meanings of his paintings that is so up against racial feelings that the black do go through.  He depicted that in one of his paintings.

Wonder if that does in fact has some bearing on why also JFK was shot? 

Well if anyone knows love to hear your details of what those two meetings were about that JFK done prior to 11/22/63.

IT was eight days prior.

Nancy,

I guess I have looked at the timeline issues for motivation in different perspective. I saw the initial revealed plot in Chicago on November 1, 1963 that caused JFK to cancel his trip as strike one and one that would lead the investigators of conspiracy to believe it was connected to Lou Conein's aid in eliminating Diem as a South Vietnamese Plot in order to get us deeper into SE Asia. When that didn't work, they guided it toward Castro in the Miami plot that was foiled with Somerset's recording of Milteer. The intelligence then broke down and it went down in Dallas. The end result was a cover-up to guide away from a conspiracy that may link Castro when all along the end result came. Johnson out of fear dove into SE Asia. The Castro plots ceased. In a murder investigation, one does not need to show motive, but it helps to convince the jury. Motive is generally produced by showing end result of what was accomplished by the act. 65,000 names scream out from the battlefields of SE Asia that JFK would have avoided by the initial draft of his last NSAM.

Al

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"American Tabloid" is an interesting, well-plotted piece of fiction, but, intererstingly, it posits that there was to be an assassination in Miami to be blamed on right-wingers (Milteer would fit that category, of course) but when that did not work the plot was shifted to Dallas and the patsy was shifted to try to blame it on Castro. Ellroy apparently has little regard for JFK (in part because of the womanizing ("the importance of getting laid" as Mr. Healy put it) but in an interview he stated that RFK was the greatest crime-buster in the twentieth century.

I think Mr. Carrier's comments about two plots that failed followed by an intelligence failure that led to Dallas is interesting. Is it also possible that the Miami plot was a deliberate diversion to create a false sense of security (who would think there could be two plots within one week?) On the other hand, one would think that concerns over plots in Chicago and Miami should have heightened security, making the security failure in Dallas more difficult to understand. Certainly not deliberate security stripping, however: else why not let one of the earlier plots succeed?

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"American Tabloid" is an interesting, well-plotted piece of fiction, but, intererstingly, it posits that there was to be an assassination in Miami to be blamed on right-wingers (Milteer would fit that category, of course) but when that did not work the plot was shifted to Dallas and the patsy was shifted to try to blame it on Castro.  Ellroy apparently has little regard for JFK (in part because of the womanizing ("the importance of getting laid" as Mr. Healy put it) but in an interview he stated that RFK was the greatest crime-buster in the twentieth century.

I think Mr. Carrier's comments about two plots that failed followed by an intelligence failure that led to Dallas is interesting.  Is it also possible that the Miami plot was a deliberate diversion to create a false sense of security (who would think there could be two plots within one week?)  On the other hand, one would think that concerns over plots in Chicago and Miami should have heightened security, making the security failure in Dallas more difficult to understand.  Certainly not deliberate security stripping, however: else why not let one of the earlier plots succeed?

Mr. Gratz,

The key here is that the first two plots were taken seriously enough to alter the presidential visit and security due to the unfolding of intelligence information. I have been part of numerous security details of Presidents, VPs and candidates and all have produced large intelligence data on possible threats. These threats were dealt with in a practical manner of isolation and alert. I have never doubted that the intel in Dallas did not provide certain concerns for the region that were not disclosed and did not have a bearing on the assassination.

It was a failure to see the pattern through intel development that is the question here. The Kennedy protection device was one of both protection and political gain that allowed the plot to succeed. It was the failure of the intelligence community, whether FBI, CIA, NSA or combination of that needs to be studied. This was an obvious high level plot that was overriden because of a breakdown within.

To believe less is only shortselling the level of the operation of this assassination. The immediacy of the cover-up IMHO shows that there was an alert on and that they failed to detect in time but saw the ramifications of their failure and covered it up in a timely manner.

Al

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Why dismiss the so called Chicago plot as a hoax? Were I Kennedy at that time, knowing what I know today about the Outfit's control of Chicago at that time, I wouldn't come to Chicago either. I believe the Outfit could have easily killed him in Chicago, where their control bordered on absolute. According to Bill Roemer, the FBI already had Sam Giancana on tape speaking about a planned hit to take place b4 the election.

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