George Joannides

[Tim Gratz]

Pat wrote:

I can almost see the full-court press when Bugliosi's book is released. I've already got my spot reserved at the neighborhood puke-atorium.

Pat, you'll see a lot of Forum members there, I suspect!

[Jim Root]

Returned to keep the threads together

Jim Root

[Terry Mauro]

Deleted by Terry Mauro

It has been brought to my attention by fellow collaborator, Steve Gaal, that The Crowley List has already been refuted by Daniel Brandt's Namebase, and that in the interest of keeping any information I may post, above reproach, I should cease and desist in exposing myself to a case of "hoof 'n' mouth" disease, by deleting the list.

As one who has never been a proponent of the indiscriminate dissemination of misinformation or disinformation, I hereby apologize to John, Andy, and my fellow forum members for my irresponsible gaff.

Thank you, Steve.

TM

Edited July 10, 2005 by Terry Mauro

[Robert Howard]

Sorry Pat but I think your giving too much credit here.  You are a much more learned man than I am and I mean no disrespect but your failure to believe in a large conspiracy in the case is naive.  The amount of doors slamming closed by the intelligence agencies the last 40 years is overwhelming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the record, Justin, I do not believe in a wide-spread conspiracy to kill Kennedy. I do believe that after the Warren Report was released there developed a vast conspiracy to shut up and shut down the critics, as they were making Americans think uncomfortable thoughts. I believe the mainstream media willingly participated in this. Look at the NBC White Paper or the CBS specials in the sixties. I also believe that both the FBI and CIA determined that the conspiracy community was anti-American and was quite possibly a communist plot, and that they used and perhaps still use their resources to discredit and attack the conspiracy community. I also believe that the agents who participate in this do so out of misguided patriotism, and not because they are trying to protect Kennedy's murderers. That is why Posner, McAdams and Jennings are so powerful--not because they're paid to lie--but because they have a built-in audience for their distortions of the truth. I'll go even further--while I don't believe Posner or McAdams are on the CIA payroll I wouldn't be surprised if it was suggested by someone in the government that they go out and push the lone-nut idea after Stone's JFK turned a few heads. I can almost see the full-court press when Bugliosi's book is released. I've already got my spot reserved at the neighborhood puke-atorium.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that Forum Members might like to look at the obit for George Joannides published in the Washington Post on March 14, 1990. He died on the ninth.

"George E. Joannides, 67, a retired lawyer at the Defense Department who later established a private law practice in Washington, died March 9 at St. Luke's Hospital in Houston, where he had undergone heart surgery.

Mr. Joannides, Potomac resident, was born in Athens. He came to this country when he was 1 year old, and he grew up in New York City. He graduated from the City College of New York and received a law degree from St. John's University.

Before moving to Washington in 1949 he worked for the National Herald, a Greek-language newspaper published in New York.

In Washington, Mr. Joannides worked for the Greek Embassy Information Service for a year. In 1951, he went to work for the Defense Department. His assignments included service in Vietnam and Greece. He retired in 1979.

When he left the government, Mr. Joannides began a law practice in Washington in which he specialized in immigration matters.

He was a member of the D.C. Bar, the American Bar Association, the National Lawyers Club, the American Hellenic Lawyers Association, the Officers Club of the Military District of Washington, the Men's Republican Club in Montgomery County and the American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association.

Survivors include his wife, Violet Joannides of Potomac; three children, Violet Folias and Alexandria Joannides, both of Salt Lake City, Stephanie Joannides of Juneau, Alaska; two sisters, Elizabeth Mills of Toronto and Ann Djinis of Dallas; and three grandchildren."

I believe John Simkin or someone else was seeking a photograph of Mr. Joannides, unfortunately there was not one in the article I obtained thru Obitsarchive.com. Perhaps there was one in the original story. I have done extensive searching on the Web for a photo of this individual without any luck.

[John Simkin]

I believe John Simkin or someone else was seeking a photograph of Mr. Joannides, unfortunately there was not one in the article I obtained thru Obitsarchive.com. Perhaps there was one in the original story. I have done extensive searching on the Web for a photo of this individual without any luck.

Thank you for posting this document. James Richards does not have a photograph of Joannides so I assume one does not exist in the public domain.

This is the Namebase entry for Joannides. He seems very under-researched:

http://www.namebase.org/xjet/George-E-Joannides.html

Assn. Former Intelligence Officers. Membership Directory. 1996

Lobster Magazine (Britain) 2004-#47 (32)

Richelson,J. The Wizards of Langley. 2001 (206)

[John Simkin]

Rare indeed when Gerald Posner and John McAdams agree with Oliver Stone and Anthony Summers but a wide cross section of authors interested in the assassination sent this letter to the New York Review of Books.  Members will find it interesting.  It would be interesting to examine the motion filed by the CIA.  Your tax dollars at work.

By Anthony Summers, Don DeLillo, Elias Demetracopoulos, G. Robert Blakey, Gerald Posner, Jefferson Morley, Jim Lesar, John McAdams, John Newman, Norman Mailer, Paul Hoch, Richard Whalen, Robbyn Swan, Scott Armstrong, Vincent Bugliosi

To the Editors:

It is disappointing to learn that the Central Intelligence Agency filed motions in federal court in May 2005 to block disclosure of records related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy forty-one years ago.

In response to the journalist Jefferson Morley's lawsuit brought under the Freedom of Information Act, the CIA is seek-ing to prevent release of records about a deceased CIA operations officer named George E. Joannides.

Joannides's story is clearly of substantial historical interest. CIA records show that the New Orleans chapter of a Cuban exile group that Joannides guided and monitored in Miami had a series of encounters with the accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald three months before Kennedy was murdered. Fifteen years later, Joannides also served as the agency's liaison to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. He did not disclose his role in the events of 1963 to Congress. The public record of the assassination and its confused investigatory aftermath will not be complete without his story.

The spirit of the law is clear. The JFK Records Act of 1992, approved unanimously by Congress, mandated that all assassination-related records be reviewed and disclosed "immediately."

When Morley filed his lawsuit in December 2003, thirteen published JFK authors supported his request for the records in an open letter to The New York Review of Books (www.nybooks.com/articles/16865).

Eighteen months later, the CIA is still stonewalling. The agency now acknowledges that it possesses an undisclosed number of documents related to Joannides's actions and responsibilities in 1963 which it will not release in any form. Thus records related to Kennedy's assassination are still being hidden for reasons of "national security."

As published authors of divergent views on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, we say the agency's position is spurious and untenable. Its continuing non-compliance with the JFK Records Act does no service to the public. It defies the will of Congress. It obscures the public record on a subject of enduring national interest. It encourages conspiracy mongering. And it undermines public confidence in the intelligence community at a time when collective security requires the opposite.

We insist the CIA observe the spirit of the 1992 JFK Assassination Records Act by immediately releasing all relevant records on the activities of George Joannides and any records at all that include his name or relate in any way to the assassination story—as prescribed by the JFK Records Act. The law and common sense require it.

G. Robert Blakey, former general counsel, House Select Committee on Assassinations

Jefferson Morley, journalist

Scott Armstrong, founder National Security Archive

Vincent Bugliosi, author and former prosecutor

Elias Demetracopoulos, retired journalist

Stephen Dorril, University of Huddersfield

Don DeLillo, author of Libra

Paul Hoch, JFK researcher

David Kaiser, Naval War College

Michael Kurtz, Southeastern Louisiana University, author of Crime of the Century

George Lardner, Jr., journalist

Jim Lesar, Assassination Archives and Research Center

Norman Mailer, author of Oswald's Tale

John McAdams, moderator, alt.assassination.jfk

John Newman, author of Oswald and the CIA

Gerald Posner, author of Case Closed

Oliver Stone, director JFK

Anthony Summers, author of Not in Your Lifetime

Robbyn Swan, author

David Talbot, founding editor, Salon.com

Cyril Wecht, former coroner, Alleghany County, PA

Richard Whalen, author of Founding Father

Gordon Winslow, former archivist of Dade County, Florida.

David Wrone, University of Wisconsin, Stevens Point, author The Zapruder Film

[Robert Howard]

Sorry Pat but I think your giving too much credit here.  You are a much more learned man than I am and I mean no disrespect but your failure to believe in a large conspiracy in the case is naive.  The amount of doors slamming closed by the intelligence agencies the last 40 years is overwhelming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the record, Justin, I do not believe in a wide-spread conspiracy to kill Kennedy. I do believe that after the Warren Report was released there developed a vast conspiracy to shut up and shut down the critics, as they were making Americans think uncomfortable thoughts. I believe the mainstream media willingly participated in this. Look at the NBC White Paper or the CBS specials in the sixties. I also believe that both the FBI and CIA determined that the conspiracy community was anti-American and was quite possibly a communist plot, and that they used and perhaps still use their resources to discredit and attack the conspiracy community. I also believe that the agents who participate in this do so out of misguided patriotism, and not because they are trying to protect Kennedy's murderers. That is why Posner, McAdams and Jennings are so powerful--not because they're paid to lie--but because they have a built-in audience for their distortions of the truth. I'll go even further--while I don't believe Posner or McAdams are on the CIA payroll I wouldn't be surprised if it was suggested by someone in the government that they go out and push the lone-nut idea after Stone's JFK turned a few heads. I can almost see the full-court press when Bugliosi's book is released. I've already got my spot reserved at the neighborhood puke-atorium.

I may be stating the obvious here, but for the sake of utilizing the talents of all forum members if ANYONE has, knows or has seen a photo (jpeg, newspaper, research article on the internet which contains a photo) of George Joannides from any time period (other than a baby picture), would you please indicate such on this thread, several JFK Forum members including myself are very interested in obtaining one. I have checked the actual obituary notice from the Washington Post appx. 3-14-90 and there was no photo accompanying the obit. Thanks

[John Simkin]

I may be stating the obvious here, but for the sake of utilizing the talents of all forum members if ANYONE has, knows or has seen a photo (jpeg, newspaper, research article on the internet which contains a photo) of George Joannides from any time period (other than a baby picture), would you please indicate such on this thread, several JFK Forum members including myself are very interested in obtaining one. I have checked the actual obituary notice from the Washington Post appx. 3-14-90 and there was no photo accompanying the obit. Thanks

James Richards does not have a photograph of George Joannides. Therefore, I suspect that one does not exist.

We had someone called Joannides try to join the Forum. However, when I asked them for a biography they did a runner.

[Pat Speer]

I may be stating the obvious here, but for the sake of utilizing the talents of all forum members if ANYONE has, knows or has seen a photo (jpeg, newspaper, research article on the internet which contains a photo) of George Joannides from any time period (other than a baby picture), would you please indicate such on this thread, several JFK Forum members including myself are very interested in obtaining one. I have checked the actual obituary notice from the Washington Post appx. 3-14-90 and there was no photo accompanying the obit. Thanks

James Richards does not have a photograph of George Joannides. Therefore, I suspect that one does not exist.

We had someone called Joannides try to join the Forum. However, when I asked them for a biography they did a runner.

Based upon the obit listed by Robert, it would seem the best bets for a picture would be a City College of New York yearbook, or perhaps the internal newsletter for one of his legal organizations.

[Robert Howard]

Sorry Pat but I think your giving too much credit here.  You are a much more learned man than I am and I mean no disrespect but your failure to believe in a large conspiracy in the case is naive.  The amount of doors slamming closed by the intelligence agencies the last 40 years is overwhelming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the record, Justin, I do not believe in a wide-spread conspiracy to kill Kennedy. I do believe that after the Warren Report was released there developed a vast conspiracy to shut up and shut down the critics, as they were making Americans think uncomfortable thoughts. I believe the mainstream media willingly participated in this. Look at the NBC White Paper or the CBS specials in the sixties. I also believe that both the FBI and CIA determined that the conspiracy community was anti-American and was quite possibly a communist plot, and that they used and perhaps still use their resources to discredit and attack the conspiracy community. I also believe that the agents who participate in this do so out of misguided patriotism, and not because they are trying to protect Kennedy's murderers. That is why Posner, McAdams and Jennings are so powerful--not because they're paid to lie--but because they have a built-in audience for their distortions of the truth. I'll go even further--while I don't believe Posner or McAdams are on the CIA payroll I wouldn't be surprised if it was suggested by someone in the government that they go out and push the lone-nut idea after Stone's JFK turned a few heads. I can almost see the full-court press when Bugliosi's book is released. I've already got my spot reserved at the neighborhood puke-atorium.

Sept 3, 2005 Washington Post Story mentions George Joannides.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...etro/obituaries

Story Headline "Vivian Psachos; Helped Catch Spy at CIA"

If I am not mistaken this subject is also mentioned on page 205 of "The Wizards of Langley."

If you have considered buying this book just to peruse the passage(s) that pertain to George Joannides. I understand that the only section of the book that mentions him is on page 205, in relation to the story above. This is just a FYI.

[Pat Speer]

From the Sep. 3 article:

"After turning over the documents to the Soviet Union in Greece, Kampiles returned to the United States and told friend George Joannides how he had "conned" the Soviets. At Joannides's suggestion, Kampiles wrote a letter detailing the incident, but Joannides put it in his briefcase and forgot it for two months. When he rediscovered the letter, he sent it to Mrs. Psachos, who worked in the Soviet section. She set up an interview with the young spy in which he admitted the crime."

My analysis:

So Joannides forgot about the letter for two months!!! MY RUMP!! He was holding on to the letter while he tried to figure out a way not to report this stupid kid. The letter was his protection. Once he figured out he had no alternative, he ratted the kid out.

This incident took place right before Joannides' involvement with the HSCA. Not only did the CIA push someone on the HSCA who knew a lot more than he ever let on, and who should have been called to testify, he was also someone whose competence and/or honesty the CIA itself had reason to question.

Edited October 9, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Bruce Cormier]

A status report on the Morley lawsuit for those interested. Both Jeff and the CIA have filed motions for summary judgment, the briefing of which should be complete by this June or shortly thereafter. At that point, the case will be teed up for the federal district judge for resolution. There may or may not be oral argument on these motions; at this point, that's undetermined.

There is so specific timetable for rendering a decision, the form of which could range from a curt "x's motion is granted, y's denied" to a detailed opinion. One would hope for a result around the new year, the third anniversary of the case's filing.

I would be surprised if the losing party did not appeal, which would add another 12 to 18 months before a final resolution. (Although an appeal to the US Supreme Court beyond that is possible, it is discretionary, rarely granted, and probably a long shot in these circumstances).

Those who wish to obtain court filings can do so in person, through the mail or, much more conveniently, through an electronic service such as Courtlink (for which there is a charge). Simply refer to: Jefferson Morley v. United States Central Intelligence Agency, Civil Action No. 03-2545 (RCL), Unites States District Court for the District of Columbia.

[Wade Rhodes]

Joannides link - http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Edited May 5, 2006 by Wade Rhodes

[Stephen Roy]

George Joannides, the son of a journalist, was born in New York on 5th July, 1922. He joined the Central Intelligence Agency in 1951 and later became chief of the Psychological Warfare branch of the CIA's station in Miami. In this role he worked closely with the Directorio Revolucionario Estudiantil (DRE), a militant right-wing, anti-Communist, anti-Castro, anti-Kennedy, group. This was a group that Lee Harvey Oswald was in contact with in New Orleans in August 1963.

In 1978, Joannides was called out of retirement to serve as the agency's liaison to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. The CIA did not reveal to the committee that Joannides had played an important role in the events of 1963. Some critics believe that Joannides was involved in a conspiracy to link Lee Harvey Oswald with the government of Fidel Castro.

George Joannides died in Houston in March 1990. In recent years investigators into the assassination of John F. Kennedy such as G. Robert Blakey, Anthony Summers, John McAdams and Gerald Posner have campaigned for the CIA to release the files concerning the activities of Joannides.

Has anyone got a photograph of Joannides?

How important is Joannides in this case? Is he a red herring? For example, why should McAdams, Posner and Blakey be so concerned with the files of Joannides. After all, in the past, they have been associated with providing misinformation about the assassination.

Forgive me for pulling up an old post about Joannides, but I ran across a reference to him in another case, and I wondered of anybody else had ever made the connection.

Back in 1977-1978, there was a spy case involving one William Peter Kampiles, who sold a KH-11 satellite manual to the Soviets. He told a sanitized version of his action to a fellow former CIA staffer who told George Joannides. Joannides then caused the investigation of Kampiles to begin.

Irionically, this seems to have been right around the time Joannides was involved with the HSCA.

Source: Jeffrey T. Richelson, America's Secret Eyes in Space.

[John Simkin]

This is the Namebase entry for Joannides. He seems very under-researched:

http://www.namebase.org/xjet/George-E-Joannides.html

Assn. Former Intelligence Officers. Membership Directory. 1996

Lobster Magazine (Britain) 2004-#47 (32)

Richelson,J. The Wizards of Langley. 2001 (206)

Gerald D. McKnight's excellent Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why (2005) includes some more information on George E. Joannides. He links it to the reason why John M. Whitten was taken off the Oswald investigation.

One of the most closely held of Helms's secrets had to do with George E. Joannides, the JM/Wave contact officer for the DRE in 1963. Helms never revealed that the CIA was funding the directorate when the DRE had contact with Oswald, who was publicly agitating in favor of the Castro revolution in New Orleans during the months of July and August. Joannides probably knew more about Oswald and his relationship with the DRE and other anti Castro exile groups in New Orleans than anyone else in the government. It was Helms who assigned Joannides to the CIA's Miami station because he was skilled in psychological warfare and disinformation operations. It was Helms who assigned veteran clandestine officer John Whitten to head up the CIA's in-house investigation of the Kennedy assassination and then withheld from him important information from Oswald's pre assassination file. When Whitten protested, Helms removed him and turned the investigation over to Angleton. It might have been just another awkward coincidence that David Atlee Phillips, the DRE's first contact officer, was chief of covert action in the Cuban Section of the CIA's Mexico City station when Oswald arrived in Mexico City in September 1963."

Thomas Powers's biography of Richard Helms, The Man Who Kept the Secrets, could not have had a more fitting title. Helms kept Joannides and his DRE connections secret through four investigations into the Kennedy assassination." Joannides's name did not publicly surface until the 1990s, when the so-called JFK Act led to the establishment of the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB). Over a four-year period the ARRB, empowered to declassify JFK files, dislodged somewhere between four and five million pages of declassified documents. Joannides's record was one of those files, and his personnel records revealed that he had been the DRE's contact officer when the CIA claimed it had no contact with the directorate in 1963. But his file was purged, according to the Washington Post's Jefferson Morley, who is the researcher responsible for introducing Joannides into the historiography of the JFK assassination. Morley described the file as "thin." There were no reports in the Joannides file for the entire seventeen months that he was the DRE's contact officer. All that his personnel file revealed is that Joannides was paying the directorate for "intelligence" and "propaganda." John Tunheim, now a federal judge in Minneapolis, chaired the ARRB. After reviewing all the CIA suppression and stonewalling surrounding the Joannides story, Tunheim remarked to Morley, "[This] shows that the CIA wasn't interested in the truth about the assassination.

All the indicators strongly point toward Oswald having been connected to an American intelligence source. There is persuasive circumstantial evidence that Oswald was building a pro-Castro cover as part of an intelligence plan that ultimately took him to Mexico City. What we know today of his activities in Mexico City far exceeds what the Warren Commission chose to include in its report, out of design but more significantly because the CIA saw to it that the evidence was not available to the Commission and its staff lawyers.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKjoannides.htm