Steve Thomas Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I posted this on Lancer, but nobody seemed very interested. This was posted on the Dallas Historical Society forum last week by a man named Jim Conner, who said that his mother, sister and brother-in-law worked at the TSBD. He said his brother-in-law was Billie Lovelady: http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...g.pl?read=30530 Re: My Dad was a Dallas Police Officer Posted By: jim conner <pyrpinz@aol.com> Date: Wednesday, 25 May 2005, at 2:51 p.m. In Response To: Re: My Dad was a Dallas Police Officer (gene morris) "Dear Gene: After the incident, everyone at TSB was interviewed. My mother's story then and now has stayed the same. Her parking space was just behind the fence at the grassy knoll. When she arrived for work that morning, she confronted several men in a car parked in her parking spot. Being the fiesty, Scotch-Irish she was, she told them they were not supposed to be parking there. They ignored her and continued to involve themselves in removing packages from the trunk of their car. Packages she described as could have contained rifles. She went inside and reported the incident to the manager of TSB Mr. Truly. Throughout the rest of the day no mention was made of the incident and when interviewed by DPD she told the same story. There was no SS followup, nor was FBI interested. They were much more interested in holding Billie Lovelady for three days. Finally when a photograph of the front steps of TSB, showing Billie and most of the crew, surfaced, they figured he could not have been in two places at the same time. For years after that they still pestered him, just certain that he was involved in some way." I emailed Jim Conner and asked him if his mother ever told him what kind of car the men were in and if she had ever described the men. So far, Mr. Conner hasn't answered me. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Steve, Is there a complete list anywhere of TSBD employees that day? I checked a list in the appendix of "Oswald Talked" to see if a Connor was on it, only to see that it's not a complete list. Names like Oswald, Lovelady, and Arce, for example, are noticeably absent. (It says "page two" at the top of the list.) And no Connor. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 That's awesome Steve! And much appreciated! I hope you get a reply. Knowing the make and model would be great. I didn't follow what he meant about Billie being in more than one place at a time? I think there is still something to be said for tabulating all of the suspect vehicles in one place - Bowers, Mercer and Sherrif Craig being a good starting point. I'd still like to know the make and model of the car Andrews was driving when he was suddenly pulled over by Tippit. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 6, 2005 Author Share Posted June 6, 2005 Lee, That's awesome Steve! And much appreciated! I hope you get a reply. Knowing the make and model would be great. I asked Jim Conner what his mother's name was in 1963. He wrote me back and said, "Her name then was Vida Lee Whatley and she worked for Lyons and Carnahan Purlishing." Mrs. Whatley is mentioned by name in the WC testimony of Geneva Hine (6H396) Mr. Ball. Steps lead down? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; but there is a door before the steps and the elevator is to my left and I went past the hall that goes to my right and I knocked on the door of Lyons and Carnahan; that's a publishing company. Mr. Ball. What did you do then? Miss HINE. I tried the door, sir, and it was locked and I couldn't get in and I called, "Me, please let me in," because she's the girl that had that office, Mrs. Lee Watley, and she didn't answer. I don't know if she was there or not, then I left her door. I retraced my steps back to where the hall turns to my left and went down it to Southwestern Publishing Co.'s door and I tried their door and the reason for this was because those windows face out. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Roberdeau Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 (edited) Good Day Ron.... Here are the names of whom I have in my files.... (in my best ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGAR "Terminator" voice.... "I have detailed files." (on most of them)) ADAMS, VICTORIA "Vickie" ELIZABETH ARCE, DANNY GARCIA ARNOLD, CAROLYN (Mrs. R. E.) ARNOLD, R. E. BAKER (nee RACHLEY), VIRGIE (Mrs. DONALD SAM BAKER) BARNUM, VIRGINIA M. (or H.) BERRY, JANE (Mrs. A. G.) BURNS, DORIS FAY (Miss) CALVERY, GLORIA (Mrs. ROBERT R.) CALVERY-friend #1, (???=mentioned in CALVERY statement) CALVERY-friend #2, (???=mentioned in CALVERY statement) CAMPBELL, OCHUS "Otis" VIRGIL CASE, EDNA (Mrs.) CASON, JACK CHARLES CASTER, WARREN CLAY, BILLIE P. (Mrs. HERMAN "Billy" M.) CUNNINGHAM, LOU DAVIS, AVERY (Mrs. CHARLES THOMAS) DEAN, RUTH HILLIARD (Mrs. JOSEPH EDDIE) DICKERSON, MARY S. (Mrs. A.D.) DORMAN, ELSIE T. DOUGHERTY, JACK EDWIN DRAGOO, BETTY J. (Mrs. BARNEY R.) ELERSON, SANDRA SUE (Mrs. RONALD G.) ELERSON-"elderly woman" (???=mentioned in ELERSON statement) FORESMAN, SCOTT FOSTER, BETTY ALICE FRAZIER, BUELL WESLEY GARNER, DOROTHY ANN GIVENS, CHARLES "Slim" DOUGLAS HAWKINS-son", ((???first name=mentioned in HAWKINS, PEGGY statement) HAWKINS, PEGGY JOYCE BIGLER HENDRIX, GEORGIA "Georgie" RUTH HICKS, KARAN (or Karen) (Mrs. JAMES DANIEL) HINE, GENEVA L. HINE-"on telephone after attack", ((???first name=mentioned in HINE statement=woman) HOLLIES, MARY MADELINE HOLT, JEANNE "Jeanie" "Gloria" HOPSON (nee Dixon), YOLA D. (Mrs. Oliver Hopson) JACOB (or "Jacobs"), STELLA MAE JARMAN, Jr., JAMES "Joe" EARL JOHNSON, JUDY MARIE (Miss) JONES, CARL EDWARD JONES, SPAULDEN EARNEST JUNKER, HERBERT LESTER KAISER, FRANKIE KOUNAS, DOLORES ARLEAN (Mrs. GEORGE ANDREW) LAWRENCE, PATRICIA ANN (Miss) LEWIS, RAY "Roy" EDWARD LOVELADY, BILLY NOLAN McCULLY, JUDITH "Judy" LOUISE MOLINA, JOSEPH "Joe" RODRIGUEZ NELSON, RUTH SMITH NORMAN, HAROLD "Hank," "Shorty" D. OSWALD, LEE HARVEY PALMER, HELEN L. (Mrs.) PARKER, ROBERTA (Mrs WILLIAM V.) PIPER, EDWARD "Eddie" REED, JERALDEAN "Carolyn" REED, MARTHA (Miss) REESE, MADDIE BELLE REID, CAROLYN (Mrs. ROBERT A.) RICHEY, BONNIE (Mrs. L. C.) SANDERS, PAULINE (Mrs ROBERT E.) SHELLEY, WILLIAM HOYT SHIELDS, EDWARD SIMMONS ("Nelson" after marrying), SHEARION "Sharon" STANSBERG (or "Stansberry"), JOYCE MAURINE STANTON, SARAH D. STYLES, SANDRA THORNTON, BETTY J. TRULY, ROY SANSOM VILES, LLOYD R. WATLEY, LEE (Mrs.), (???first name=mentioned in HINE warrenatti testimony) WEST, TROY EUGENE WESTBROOK, KAREN WESTER, FRANKLIN EMMETT WHITAKER, LUPE "Lucy" (Mrs. H. G.) WILLIAMS, BONNIE RAY WILLIAMS, MARY "Marge" LEA WILLIAMS, OTIS NEVILLE WILSON, STEVEN F. Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John" Plank Walker Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/ROSE...NOUNCEMENT.html T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore "I remarked to Mr. Campbell who was standing near by that I thought the shots had come from our building. But I heard someone else say 'no, I think it was further down the street.' " -TSBD employee/attack witness JERALDEAN "Carolyn" REID, who stood directly in front of the warrenatti, supposed, "snipers lair," in her earliest 11-23-63 DPD affidavit (CE2003, 24H223) Edited June 7, 2005 by Don Roberdeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Roberdeau Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 (edited) Good Day Steve.... Nice job. I called Jim Conner yesterday after he provided me his phone number, but he has not returned the phone call yet. Since I had no "Conner" on my list, I reasoned that either I have not come across her name, yet, or, she gave birth to "Jim Conner" sometime before getting married (re-married?) before 11-22-63, since Jim said he was in DP, also. WHATLEY is/was mentioned on MASLAND's site (but the reference did not specify she worked at the TSBD).... http://www.jmasland.com/cd-w.htm ....but I just checked Masland's title webpage, and there is a message from Masland that the site crashed, and is "down." Masland's email is/was info@jmasland.com WHATLEY is also mentioned in CD706 Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John" Plank Walker Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/ROSE...NOUNCEMENT.html T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore "The shots came from the hill -- it was just east of the underpass. We were on the south side." "I thought I saw this man running, but I looked at the President and, you know, for a while, and I looked up there and I thought I saw a man running, and so, right after that I guess I didn't have any better sense -- I started running there too" ---- JEAN HILL, close DP attack witness, in a "WBAP" tv with TOM WHALEN that was prerecorded a few minutes before the interview 1:21 PM Dallas time first-showing Edited June 6, 2005 by Don Roberdeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 6, 2005 Author Share Posted June 6, 2005 Don, Good Day Steve.... Nice job.I called Jim Conner yesterday after he provided me his phone number, but he has not returned the phone call yet. According to Mary Ferrell's database, Vida Lee Whatley's signed statement is at CE 1381 That is 22H680 http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol22_0355b.htm In her statement, there is no mention of the Cubans or station wagon. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 A few observations. First, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but were not those 64 FBI interviews very tightly structured with specific questions. Basically they were looking for anybody who might have seen Oswald, specifically at the time of the shooting. I think this is the interview series that missed Oswald being seen in the lunchroom around 12:15. It was not an open ended investigation by this point in time. Second, it certainly is not a Friday afternoon DPD interview where she would have opened up with what her son describes.... by the time of the FBI interview caution may have set in? Beyond that I keep thinking about the fact that Bowers didn't even mention his notification of the police about the tramps in the RR car no anything about their capture.... in any of his interviews. Having said that though, I hope her son is willing to engage in an in depth dialog so all the issues about what she did or didn't say when can be fully explored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 7, 2005 Author Share Posted June 7, 2005 Larry, A few observations.First, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but were not those 64 FBI interviews very tightly structured with specific questions. Yes, I was very dissapointed not to find her name in the DPD Archives index. Her son said that she had been "interviewed" by the DPD, but I guess that didn't include swearing out a notarized statement. I would ask everyone to keep your eyes peeled in photographs taken behind the grassy knoll and see if you spot a cream colored 4-door Ford station wagon. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 I emailed Jim Conner and asked him if his mother ever told him what kind of car the men were in and if she had ever described the men. I wrote the author of this posting and he replied with the following concerning his mother: "She described the men as both of Spanish or Cuban extraction. At that time she had had little interplay with either nationality. Many years later she worked for the Immigration Dept. and felt that in retrospect that they were more than likely Cuban. The car was a Ford, 4 door Station Wagon with Texas license.(Cream colored) She wrote the license number down and gave it to Mr. Truly." This is from the WC testimony of S.M. Holland - signal supervisor of the Union Terminal Railroad, who was working on the railroad overpass: Mr. HOLLAND - Well, the only thing that I remember now that I didn't then, I remember about the third car down from this fence, there was a station wagon backed up toward the fence, about the third car down, and a spot, I'd say 3 foot by 2 foot, looked to me like somebody had been standing there for a long period. I guess if you could count them about a hundred foottracks in that little spot, and also mud upon the bumper of that station wagon. Mr. HOLLAND - It was muddy, and you could have if you could have counted them, I imagine it would have been a hundred tracks just in that one location. It was just---- Mr. STERN - And then you saw some mud on the bumper? Mr. HOLLAND - Mud on the bumper in two spots. Mr. STERN - As if someone had cleaned his foot, or--- Mr. HOLLAND - Well, as if someone had cleaned their foot, or stood up on the bumper to see over the fence. What kind of car did Jack Lawrence borrow? from Mike Griffith. "Compelling Evidence." http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/g...from_front.html Jack Lawrence and His Borrowed Car About a month before the assassination, a man named Jack Lawrence was hired at Downtown Lincoln-Mercury, a Dallas car dealership that was only two blocks from Dealey Plaza. Lawrence got the job by providing job references from New Orleans. These references were later found to be phony. Lawrence was known as an ardent right-wing speaker, and reportedly had been an expert marksmen in the military. The night before the assassination, Lawrence borrowed a car from the dealership, saying he needed it for a date. Lawrence did not show up for work in the morning. However, thirty minutes after the shooting, he came hurrying through the company's show room. He was pale and sweating and had mud on his clothes. He rushed into the men's room and threw up. He claimed he had been ill, and that he had tried to return the car but was forced to park it because of traffic. His co-workers became suspicious and called the police. Later, the car Lawrence had borrowed was found--it was discovered in the parking lot behind the wooden fence on the grassy knoll (Marrs 339-340; Groden and Livingstone 133-134). Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 I emailed Jim Conner and asked him if his mother ever told him what kind of car the men were in and if she had ever described the men. I wrote the author of this posting and he replied with the following concerning his mother: "She described the men as both of Spanish or Cuban extraction. At that time she had had little interplay with either nationality. Many years later she worked for the Immigration Dept. and felt that in retrospect that they were more than likely Cuban. The car was a Ford, 4 door Station Wagon with Texas license.(Cream colored) She wrote the license number down and gave it to Mr. Truly." This is from the WC testimony of S.M. Holland - signal supervisor of the Union Terminal Railroad, who was working on the railroad overpass: Mr. HOLLAND - Well, the only thing that I remember now that I didn't then, I remember about the third car down from this fence, there was a station wagon backed up toward the fence, about the third car down, and a spot, I'd say 3 foot by 2 foot, looked to me like somebody had been standing there for a long period. I guess if you could count them about a hundred foottracks in that little spot, and also mud upon the bumper of that station wagon. Mr. HOLLAND - It was muddy, and you could have if you could have counted them, I imagine it would have been a hundred tracks just in that one location. It was just---- Mr. STERN - And then you saw some mud on the bumper? Mr. HOLLAND - Mud on the bumper in two spots. Mr. STERN - As if someone had cleaned his foot, or--- Mr. HOLLAND - Well, as if someone had cleaned their foot, or stood up on the bumper to see over the fence. What kind of car did Jack Lawrence borrow? from Mike Griffith. "Compelling Evidence." http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/g...from_front.html Jack Lawrence and His Borrowed Car About a month before the assassination, a man named Jack Lawrence was hired at Downtown Lincoln-Mercury, a Dallas car dealership that was only two blocks from Dealey Plaza. Lawrence got the job by providing job references from New Orleans. These references were later found to be phony. Lawrence was known as an ardent right-wing speaker, and reportedly had been an expert marksmen in the military. The night before the assassination, Lawrence borrowed a car from the dealership, saying he needed it for a date. Lawrence did not show up for work in the morning. However, thirty minutes after the shooting, he came hurrying through the company's show room. He was pale and sweating and had mud on his clothes. He rushed into the men's room and threw up. He claimed he had been ill, and that he had tried to return the car but was forced to park it because of traffic. His co-workers became suspicious and called the police. Later, the car Lawrence had borrowed was found--it was discovered in the parking lot behind the wooden fence on the grassy knoll (Marrs 339-340; Groden and Livingstone 133-134). Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 On 6/1/2005 at 0:43 PM, Steve Thomas said: I posted this on Lancer, but nobody seemed very interested. This was posted on the Dallas Historical Society forum last week by a man named Jim Conner, who said that his mother, sister and brother-in-law worked at the TSBD. He said his brother-in-law was Billie Lovelady: http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...g.pl?read=30530 Re: My Dad was a Dallas Police Officer Posted By: jim conner <pyrpinz@aol.com> Date: Wednesday, 25 May 2005, at 2:51 p.m. In Response To: Re: My Dad was a Dallas Police Officer (gene morris) "Dear Gene: After the incident, everyone at TSB was interviewed. My mother's story then and now has stayed the same. Her parking space was just behind the fence at the grassy knoll. When she arrived for work that morning, she confronted several men in a car parked in her parking spot. Being the fiesty, Scotch-Irish she was, she told them they were not supposed to be parking there. They ignored her and continued to involve themselves in removing packages from the trunk of their car. Packages she described as could have contained rifles. She went inside and reported the incident to the manager of TSB Mr. Truly. Throughout the rest of the day no mention was made of the incident and when interviewed by DPD she told the same story. There was no SS followup, nor was FBI interested. They were much more interested in holding Billie Lovelady for three days. Finally when a photograph of the front steps of TSB, showing Billie and most of the crew, surfaced, they figured he could not have been in two places at the same time. For years after that they still pestered him, just certain that he was involved in some way." I emailed Jim Conner and asked him if his mother ever told him what kind of car the men were in and if she had ever described the men. So far, Mr. Conner hasn't answered me. Steve Thomas Interesting account of Lovelady by a relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 "For years after that they still pestered him (Lovelady)" It doesn't seem likely that they would pester him for years because they thought he was involved in the assassination. It seems more likely that they wanted him to keep his story straight as a witness. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) The story about Jack Lawrence is interesting. Were the details of this story credibly investigated and found to be factually true? This story of Lawrence is one of "so many" of unusually different and intriguing background characters somehow connected by location, activities, associations and even personal interactions with Oswald, Ruby and others and to the actual 11,22,1963 Dealey Plaza event in ways that are just so suspiciously strange, that in total, they force rational thinking minds to realize that it is highly improbable, illogical and damn near impossible that, in the least, there isn't much more to the JFK assassination story than simply an angry, frustrated, poverty stricken loner who just happened to decide to take out JFK because of 2 week notice luck Kennedy's motorcade was going to pass right under his workplace windows and he just happened to have a cheap scoped rifle on hand to do the job. Jack Lawrence, Richard Case Nagell, Rose Cheramie, Roscoe White, the list is just so long. Then when you add "hundreds" of other witnesses ( more normal, every day working background folks ) with first hand observations of these same things that almost always contradict the WC findings and conclusion, again, you are literally "forced" by logic and common sense to face and acknowledge the reality of this huge testimonial imbalance. Lee Bowers, Aaron Roland, Julia Ann Mercer, Vida Whatley, James Tague, Carolyn Walther, Dr. Eva Gangeles, Dr. Crenshaw, S. M. Holland, Sheriff Roger Craig, Albert Bogard, New Orleans and Clinton Louisiana witnesses ... again, this list of more normal background every day working folks with contradictory observations is just so massive, it can't be dismissed with reasonable logic. It is this huge number reality that forces reasonable and rational thinking persons to logically doubt the WC official line. Edited February 28, 2017 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Excellent post, Joe, I share your outlook. And I’d be interested to know who’s done the deepest digging into Jack Lawrence. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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