John Simkin Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If someone wants to argue that one can deduce a sinister motive from a mistake made by a secret service agent in an emergency, I would like the proponent of that theory to declare that he or she has never made a mistake. And if the reference is to Greer, perhaps an explanation can be offered of what was done to induce Greer to drive a vehicle at which bullets would be flying.Greer is just another innocent person whose character has been assassinated by the so-called liberals on this forum. Incredible! This is what top CIA official John Stockwell said about Greer (The Praetorian Guard): When the shooting began, the Secret Service driver put on - the brakes (home movies of the scene show the brake lights on). Anyone who has been through that kind of training - and I have been through their "bang and burn" courses - is drilled to react. When the bullets start flying in such a situation, you mash down on the gas and you get the hell out of the area; you do not slow down and look around as the seasoned Secret Service driver in fact did. In ten seconds of rifle fire, only one of the Secret Service agents in the trail car moved to the President's aid. The one agent who did move was Jackie Kennedy's personal guard, in Dallas at her request, not part of the team that was there to protect the President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 John, my point was that obstericians are taught what to do when they encounter emergencies such as shoulder dystocia, just as law enforcement officers are taught how to react. If I recall correctly, this was the first case of shoulder dystocia the doctor defendant had encountered. In fact, I felt sorry for him, but thought part of the problem might be he was a klutz. He came to the first deposition with his hand bandaged, having hurt it in an encounter with his garage door. The fact that the doctor did not use his emergency training did not mean he intended to damage the baby. We know it was the first time Greer was driving a car at which shots were fired. That he did not have his wits about him does not prove he was a conspirator. As I said, people do make mistakes. Particularly in emergencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Mark wrote: What relevance your analogy has to the JFK assassination is a mystery best left for another day. Everyone knows people make mistakes Tim, but that's not the issue here is it? That is precisely the issue with respect to Greer's alleged braking of the car, is it not? Whether he made a mistake or he braked to allow more shots at JFK? And we know there was no security stripping in Dallas; the security was the same as at other locations. Probably should have been better in all places, but that is hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Tim, Forget Greer. What is wrong with this picture? I trust it's pretty obvious. Do you think this was a "mistake"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Tim,Forget Greer. What is wrong with this picture? I trust it's pretty obvious. Do you think this was a "mistake"? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ron, Off the top of my head, 1. Open windows 2. No cycle cops alongside and 3. Apparent large gap between the limo and the car ahead. Any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 No difference than JFK in Key West, November, 1962. Or in many other cities. So unless one wants to argue his protection was always lax so someone could take a shot at him, there is no evidence of a CHANGE in security preacautions in Dallas. Sorry, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Tim,Forget Greer. What is wrong with this picture? I trust it's pretty obvious. Do you think this was a "mistake"? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ron, The penny dropped--finally. $72.50 is ridiculously cheap for a new transmission, even in '63. Gotta be a mistake. One cycle cop has veered way out, unable to believe the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 (edited) Hey, Mark, I like it!! Great humour, guy!! But you have to remember that was in 1963 dollars. Any idea what a Lincoln cost in 1963? Or a gallon of gas? Edited June 17, 2005 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 there is no evidence of a CHANGE in security preacautions in Dallas. Then why did the Warren Commission call it "seriously deficient"? Why did the HSCA call it "uniquely insecure"? The word uniquely would suggest that all that wide open space, leaving JFK totally unprotected in front, conditions just right to blow the back of his head off, was highly unusual, unprecedented even. They cooked up this special arrangement, or perhaps I should say non-arrangement, for Dallas. That's what it looks like to me. If this is what they did everywhere, then they shouldn't have bothered with security at all. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Ron, all I can say is that JFK was in a BORROWED Lincoln convertible in Key West and drove SLOWLY down the main street (Duval) with plenty of buildings, some two story, one six story; no motorcycles on either side, and he made a 90 degree turn to go to the street leading to the naval base where he inspected the subs that had done duty in the missile crisis less than thirty days earlier. And remember, of course, there were a lot more Cubans in Key West than in Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Tim, I'll take your word for what happened at Key West, but the key here is what happened out west. When the HSCA said "uniquely insecure," it got at least one thing right. And I don't think somebody in Dallas simply goofed. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 But Ron it was not just Key West. I would have to disagree with the word "uniquely" if it implies the security precautions or procedures in dallas were different than normal. (I caught your clever play on words, by the way!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Tim, I guess only Pierre Salinger would have known for sure, and they had him on a plane to Japan. But if what I see in that picture was "normal," what an outfit Dillon was running. I have to go to bed now before it's time to get up. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Nighty night, Ron! I guess you raise an interesting question: was security different in the Eisenhower administration? But I do remember photos of RFK campaigning in open cars so the lesson of Dallas had not been learned in 1968. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 (edited) The penny dropped--finally. $72.50 is ridiculously cheap for a new transmission, even in '63. (Mark Stapleton) It might be cheap, Mark, but it seems that 'Hoppy' is doing okay seeing that it is his number 2 factory. James Edited June 17, 2005 by James Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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