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The following are two of my questions to Mark and the reply is from Robert Charles-Dunne:

(8) Do you admit that there was a close relationship between Trafficante

and Rolando Cubela, and that Cubela in fact helped Trafficante get out

of Trescornia? (By golly, I hope you know what Trescornia was. If not,

let me know.)

Proof? How do we know that McWillie, Ruby, Guiseppe di Giorgio, or other possible intermediaries didn't play a role in this?

(9) Do you admit that Trafficante perjured himself before the House Select

Committee on Assassinations by denying a relationship with Cubela?

Proof?

Mr. Charles-Dunne, there is no way I want to impugn your motivation here but I assumed you were well-read enough to know the answers to these questions.

I do not know where I first read about the close relationship between Trafficante and Cubela but I do know it was confirmed by Escalante at the conference in the Bahamas. The transcript of his remarks (and specifically re Cubela's close relationship with Trafficante) is available at the cuban-exile website. And of course Trafficante's denial of any relationship with Cubela is in his testimony before the HSCA, readily available on-line.

So you can easily verify my statements. I assume you will do so and admit that those two points are proved. I do consider Trafficante's perjury before the HSCA significant (as you know, he also, incredibly, denied under oath any involvement in the plots against Castro).

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Ron: I was coming back to give you what info I had on the telephones in Washington...But am so pleased to see Charles give his research in this area..for all our information.....Thanks..

Shanet..Mark...Ron and others that are interested...in this information pertaining to these groups that may have been involved in assassination...I am very interested in your input and conversations...of these other possible contributors to such.....sorry I cannot recall all your names...let's continue.... :up

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The murder of President Kennedy could have been the function of a top-level military-industrial-intelligence faction of the United States government.

When President L.B.Johnson chose the members of the Warren Commission, some had long-standing allegiance to these factions...

Chief Justice Earl Warren: Though revered by some.....Was a most important source and mover in organizing the first concentration camps in the U.S. after they entered WW 2 interpreting the Constitution as allowing the imprisonment of innocent American citizens whose ancestry happened to be Japanese...thereby being loyal to the military.

On Dec.9/63 Nicholas Katzenbach sent a memorandum to Warren stating that copies of the FBI Report was being sent to him and the other members of the WC..on the assassination..

The FBI report stated :" one of the bullets had entered just below his shoulder to the right of the spinal column at an angle of 45 to 60 degrees downward, that there was no point of exit." ....as of Dec.9/63....Earl Warren and the government therefore could not have such a scenario as the "Magic Bullet"....the three-bullet lone assassin theory..as ( there was no point of exit).......if the government were innocent and Earl Warren was not in compliance...this alone proved evidence of conspiracy...

The memo further mentioned "....that the latest gallop poll shows that over half the American people believe that Oswald acted on part of a conspiracy,in shooting President Kennedy ..I think therefore ,the Commission should consider releasing or allowing the Dept of Justice to release, a short press statement which would briefly make the following points."

"" The FBI report through scientific examination of evidence ,testimony and intensive investigation ,established beyond a reasonable doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy on Nov. 22,1963..The FBI made exhaustive investigation into whether Oswald may have conspired with or been assisted by any organization ,group,or person foreign or domestic ,in carrying out this dastardly act..To date this aspect of the investigation has been negative.""

Warren accepted what to some appear to be orders ,and did a great disservice to the country and to the Constitution but a great service to the MIC, he also showed contempt for the American public whom the majority had stated loud and clear that they believed there was a conspiracy.....the American people were to be misled, lied to, confused, and manipulated, and also pay the cost as taxpayers for the Warren Commission, that carried his name.....he continued with his charade..and pretended to be looking for the truth but in reality he had apparently accepted his orders and was in compliance...Why ?..whatever his reasons...he then proceeded to allow the fantasy to be created....By not informing the citizens of the United States ,of the lies held within this announcement was he was guilty of obstruction of justice ?

Allen W.Dulles: Was Director of the CIA for 8 years 53/61..until President Kennedy fired him, after the BOPs fiasco.Under Dulles the CIA grew and developed it's enormous power .He had been a master spy in the Office of Strategic Services (OSS).

--the U.S. Intelligence agency during WW 2 and the forerunner of the CIA...He was credited with two outstanding feats: the penetration of the German Abwehr (Hitler's Intelligence Service) and the negotiating the surrender of German troops in Italy...

Here was the consummate cold warrior..on Jan21/64, there was a secret executive meeting of the WC..Marina Oswald was going to give evidence that LHO was a Soviet Spy:...a snip.....of the meeting....

Russell stated" That will blow the lid if she testifies to that." Dulles stated he knew Isaac Don Levine who was with Life Magazine, who had the assigment and meeting with Marina..the article was never published , Dulles stated "I can get ahold of him and have a friendly talk." Now why would Dulles want to potect the Soviets, if LHO was an agent ? He and his brother Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, certainly had been willing to carry the U.S to the brink of nuclear war in post WW 2 times...so why now the reluctance.... to invole Russia ?

In Gaeton Fonzi's book, you will see that he has traced the assassination to the CIA and President Kennedy had fired Allen Dulles....as the head of such..therefore could Dulles have had the knowledge that LHO was the patsy, and that the CIA had carried out the assassination ? He had an interest in protecting the agency, he had reason to hate Kennedy and his courage for opposing the intelligence and military on Cold War policy... in appointing Dulles to the WC, President Johnson had placed him in a position of obstructing justice, which he then carried out....there could not be an investigation that would lead to the CIA...

(The information that has been researched on LHO, points to him being a U.S Intelligent Agent...the same government agencies who created the Marxist cover for him, were more than likely involved in the assassination.)

John J.McCloy: Was the Assisstant Secretary of War from April 1941..to Nov.1945.

President of the World Bank from 1947-49 and the US Military Governor and High Commissioner to Germany from 1949-51..

Gerald R.Ford: A staunch ally of the military establishment and the Pentagon.He had the reputation on the Hill as the CIA's best friend in Congress..He became President and chose the members of the Rockefeller Commission ,and accepted that commissions whitewashed report..he also withheld it's findings on the CIA's alleged

assassination plots..He did everything in his power to block the release of the Church Committee findings about the CIA's assassination plots against foreign leaders and it was Ford who steadfastly defended the Agency and harshly criticized those in Congress and the media who called for vast reforms and tighter reins to control the CIA.....and it was Ford who moved President Kennedy's back wound up several inches, on the Bethesda Autopsy Report....it was Ford, who stole the LHO Diary that legally belonged to Marina Oswald, and sold the contents to Life Magazine....

and it was Ford who kept J.Edgar Hoover and the FBI informed of all that came to light within the Warren Commission during regular meetings with him...

The Warren Commission is a volume of lies and deceit , and therefore we could be led to one of two possible conclusions:

The WC was part of the conspiracy and was used to conceal the truth about the crime.

or..........

Like the man who created it, the Commission had been placed under the control of the force that killed Kennedy....

The FBI: Hoover the Assassination and the Warren Commission..

If concealing facts and evidence in the assassination is a sign of guilt...the FBI is a prime suspect..They were the principal investigative arm of the WC...who had none of it's own, though they certainly had the power to have created one of their own..but they accepted Hoover's information readily, though at times questionably.

The FBI:

Witheld much pertinent information..

Submitted a barrage of irrelevant data...( such as a sampling of the dental charts of Jack Ruby's Mother..CE 1281....a study of the differences between Caucasian,Negroid and Mongoloid hair..CE 668-670...and two copies of Marina's dental charts....a 48 page summary..from when she was pregnant..CD 884 )

Altered, suppressed and destroyed evidence .

Procrastinated in investigating and replying to Commission requests for specific information...

Intimidated witnesses who disputed the lone assassin theory.

Botched the New Orleans investigation...

Did not thoroughly investigate Dealey Plaza..and area ,site of the killing..

The misconduct is too long to extensive to cover here.

In the FBI Summary and Supplemental reports ,there contains statements,allegations of medical findings and other evidence which are irreconciliable with the Commission's own findings based on the same evidence .The Bureau was in the rediculous position of submitting reports which contradicted the conclusions of the Warren Report, while at the same time illogically conceding that those same findings were correct..??? ( for a detailed analysis see the "Whitewash Series"; and "Post Mortum" by Harold Weisberg.)

One such....the suspicion that LHO was a FBI informant ..yet the FBI were more than ready to close the case..in a matter of days......based on the fact that he was the lone assassin..( seen in transcript of the Jan. 22/64 session .).during this emergency meeting that was called to discuss the rumour , the information being supplied by Texas A.G.Waggoner Carr, was that LHO was being paid $200 a month and had been recruited in Sep.62..and assigned # S-179 .The WC members were so stunned that Allan Dulles suggested that the minutes of the meeting be destroyed..

The Commission seemed convinced that the FBI was deliberately leaking information,to the press.....to build the lone assassin case quickly and decisively in the public mind. ( the FBI failed to inform the SS and DPD of Oswald's presence in Dallas..prior to Kennedy's visit.)

In the Jan. 27/64 transcript session, the Commission members seemed terrified of Director Hoover ?? and suspicious...for two hours they discuss ways of inquiring about the informant rumor..Indeed they spent Four months..debating just how to approach Hoover for a disclaimer that would convince the public ..Intially they had decided that a disclaimer would not suffice, nor would it convince the public..after being informed that if LHO was an informer, Hoover would lie..Dulles also confides that during his tenure as CIA director, he would have lied under oath to anyone except the President ,if he thought it was in the interest of the nation or the Agency..

Finally Rankin approached Hoover ,he flatly denied the rumor and the matter, and as far as the WC was concerned it was dropped..

( It was during this session that Rankin made his famous remark: "We do have a dirty rumor that is very bad for the Commission...and it must be wiped out insofar as it is possible to do so by this Commission."....re LHO being a paid informer..

The last two lines:

Russell: (referring to the attitude taken by FBI's re it's reports.)..."You have our statement. What else do you want ?."

McCloy:" Yes,""We know who killed cock robin."

That is the point ,it isn't only who killed cock robin.

No less than seven FBI agensts are known to have been associated with Oswald during the year and a half between his return from the Soviet Union and the assassination.

The first contact ,a two hour interview on June 26/62 ( Report) shortly after his return. Two months later Aug.16/62...SA John Fain and Arnold Brown...in a stakeout in an car near Oswald's home..they approached him, as he walked down the street, Fain told the WC that was done so as not to embarrass him in his home..( 4 Hearings p.420)..He invited them in but they insisted the conversation be held in the car..

Apparently they wished to discuss something they did not want overheard.

LHO promised to report "any contacts or attempted contacts by Soviets under

suspicious circumstances or otherwise." What else did he promise them...and what was promised to him in return.?

Aug.9/63 New Orleans during the leaflet FPGC distribution, he was arrested , and strangley he requested and promptly received an interview with an FBI agent John Quigley.......FBI agent James P.Hosty's name, address, telephone number, and auto license were in LHO's personal notebook...This information was omitted in a Dec.23/63 FBI report to the WC..Seven weeks later they corrected their mistake.?

Hosty was assigned to investigate Oswald prior to the assassination. On the afternoon of Nov.22/63 he lamented to DPD Lt.Jack Revill "Jack, a communist killed President Kennedy....Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy....We had information that he was capable of this..."..WR V H 34,35)..Revill reported the statement in a written report on Nov.22/63...The statement was however kept in a locked drawer at the DPD station for five months..( Ft Worth Star Telegram: 02.09.75.)

Not until Oct.1975 did Chief of Police Jesse Curry admit to suppressing Revill's statement at the request of the FBI. He revealed the existance of the statement and the cover-up in a registered letter to Earl Warren on May 28/64. In the letter Curry states that he instructed Revill to keep his statement confidential after the police chief was requested to do so by J.Gordon Shanklin , then Special Agent-in-Charge of the Dallas FBI office...Contrary to the evidence, Hosty later denied the statement to the WC..( Report 442.)and that there was no information to justify a warning to the SS .The WC disagreed ..( Report 443) Hoover was furious with Hosty and gave him a disciplinary transfer to Kansas..with a cut in pay..("Time"11.03.75).Hoover waited till Hosty had testified before ordering the transfer lest Commission members learn of it and make an inquiry. (1V H 20 )..After his arrest, upon seeing Hosty ,Oswald being interrogated by Cap.Will Fritz, became enraged "he beat on the desk and went into a kind of tantrum" He told Hosty,"I know you .You accosted my wife on two occasions"..asked what he meant...he said " Well he threatened her." "He practically told her she would have to go back to Russia."

Agent Hosty also received the infamous note from Oswald, delivered to the FBI office..several weeks before the assassination...and it was destroyed..Hosty stated it read " If you have anything you want to learn about me, come talk to me directly.If you don't cease bothering my wife I will take appropriate action and report this to proper authorities"...the recepionist who took the note from Oswald quoted it as saying "Let this be a warning, I will blow up the FBI and the Dallas Police Department if you don't stop bothering my wife."..this information did not come out till 1975 and The House subcommittee ,at the time, immediately requested an investigation..and the testimoney it heard simply used passing the buck..tactics..

Hosty said that Shanklin ordered the destruction,of the note and his three page report made two hours after Oswald was killed by Ruby..on.24/63..Hosty said he tore it and flushed it down the toilet..Shanklin denied giving the order..said he didn't know there had been a note till 1975...But Agent Kenneth Howe testified that he personally showed the note to Shanklin..that weekend...Hosty said Howe was present...when Shanklin told him to destroy the note but Howe denied that....Hosty said he didn't tell the WC when he tesified because he had been ordered not to...by his superiors..not to volunteer any information." and they didn't ask me about it ."!! Now William C.Shanklin who headed the FBI in 75...told Time magazine 11.03.75.....that at least ten top officials at the FBI headquarters in Washington knew about the note..The New York Times 9.17.75...reported that top FBI officials ,"probably including former Director J. Edgar Hoover ."...ordered the destruction of the note" The Times attributed the report to a source it described as familiar with the meeting at which the decision to destroy the letter was made in order to avoid embarrassment to the Bureau....Did the note contain a warning of the pending assassination..??

This tiny bit of information points out the fact that the FBI was culpable in the assassination of John F.Kennedy....and there is much more available....

Hoover Was the FBI, being it's director for 39 years when he died May 1972, at the age of 77..any group contemplating the murder of the President required their assistance, and received it...by looking at the records...He was simply too powerful, and too valuable to be overlooked by the planners. Once the investigation was taken out of the legal authorities hands, where it should have remained, in Dallas, Texas...by the FBI...they headed any official investigation into the assassination..The co-operation of J.Edgar Hoover was imperative ,unless the force behind the murder was so awesome and so powerful that it was certain it could control him..?

The primary souce of his power was explained in simple terms by William C.Sullivan a 30 year verteran of the FBI at the time...

"He was very ,very powerful, unbelievably powerful..We don't ever want another man in that postion of power again.He was in there such a long time, and he gathered all the dirt that was present on people in high-ranking positions, all the irregularities ,not necessarily sex alone, but financial irregularities, or political chicanery. It doesn't have to be something of a sexual nature ,although that would be included..He was a genius at implying that he knew all this information, and sometimes he didn't know as much as he implied, but it didn't matter. Once it reached them that this implication had been made, damn it, they had a guilty conscience, and they may have done something that Hoover didn't know about, but they assumed he did know.They placed him in a position of power,and they were all afraid to get rid of him. I know Nixon was actually afraid of him.Knowledge is powerful, and he had knowledge of the most damaging kind, knowledge of people's misbehaviour."..Demaris "Argosy".

He was mentioned by Nixon to Dean on Feb.28/73 during one of the taped meetings..

President R.M.Nixon:

" (expletive deleted) Hoover was my crony .He was closer to me than Johnson, actulally though Johnson used him more. But as for Pat Gray,(expletive deleted) I never saw him."

John Dean

"While it might have been a lot of blue chips to the late Director, I think we would have been a lot better off during this whole Watergate thing if he had been alive.Because he knew how to handle ,that Bureau...knew how to keep them in bounds."

Nixon:

"Well, Hoover performed.He would have fought.That was the point .He would have defied a few people.He would have scared them to death.He has a file on everybody."

No doubt a massive sigh of relief went through Washington when Hoover died.

Following his death 35 filing drawers containing Hoover's personal files were moved from his office to his home and subsequently destroyed by Helen Gandy, his long time secretary...the destruction process took two months. ( Dallas Morning News..11.19.75...12.02.75..)

To many he was Mr.America....his legend grew for years, perpetuated by the FBI's public relations office ,and continued to grow until he was something of a demigod. To speak of him in any derogatory terms was nothing short of blasphemy ,and anyone doing so could be suspected of being a communist...In 75 the legend began to crumble and Americans started to see what type of man Hoover really was.Testimony before a Senate sub-committee revealed the faults in Hoover's character and the shocking instances of lawless acts carried out at his direction..a few.. "The Truth About Hoover" Time 12.22.75 )

"Instead of insulating his bureau from politically sensitive Presidents. Hoover eagerly complied with improper requests from the men in the White House, for information on potential opponents If a President failed to ask.....the Director often volunteered.He tapped telephones of Government officials on request, perused files of politicians unasked,volunteered tidbits of gossip. He was a petty man of towering personal hates.There was much more than a tinge of racism in his vicious vendetta against Martin Luther King Jr. He had to be pushed into hiring black agents for the bureau.His informers, infilitrators and wiretappers delved into the activities of even the most innocuous and nonviolent civil rights groups ,trampling on the right of citizens to express grievances against Government.His spies within potentially dangerous extremist groups sometimes provoked more violence than they prevented.

As an administrator, he was an erratic, unchallenged czar, banishing agents to Siberian posts on whimsy, terrorizing them with torrents of implausible rules, insisting on conformity of thought as well as dress."

He also presented the information of John F.Kennedy's Addisons desease to LBJ before the Democratic Convention ,in choosing it's new candidate for President...LBJ did not use it publicly, but made sure that the news was out....amongst certain people.

This was the type of man in charge of the FBI, when John F.Kennedy was President...and assassinated, and responsible for the gathering of the information on the murder.....and he also had had no use for the President...would he have had a reasonable motive, as he saw it to have him removed from office...?..Yes, his comtempt for the Kennedy's was well known in the nations capitol...It irked him to no end, that Robert, whom he particularly abhorred, and who was his superior as Attorney General...was born in 1924 ...and Hoover had come to the helm of the Bureau one year before....

Other than his dislike of the brothers, the only other possible motive that could be attributed to him would have been that the Kennedys wanted to remove him from his powerful position...it has been reported by associates of the President that after the 64

election,he planned to put the aging Hoover out to pasture..when he reached his 70th Birthday...on Jan.1/65.....( which LBJ did not)....But that plan seems to be somewhat unlikely when you consider the considerable files that Hoover had accumulated on them.....he is known to have had thick files on the Kennedy's personal lives ...

**On two occasions Hoover sent details of JFK's sexual personal files on his relations with other women to Richard Nixon for use in the Presidential campaigns; they were submitted for use in the 1960 campaign against JFK, and in 1971 for possible use against Edward Kennedy had he sought the Democratic nomination.**

Dallas Morning News 12.23.75..

Did Hoover possess the power and resources to kill the President ?? Yes... the resources and contacts at the Bureau's disposal were almost unlimited..

* Had Hoover been involved in planning the murder ,he would not have permitted the choice of patsy as being LHO...a man who Dallas and Texas officials would indicate immediately after the assassination was a paid FBI informer.This then raises a question: Did the assassination planners deliberately select a FBI informer as a Patsy in order to embarass and thereby neutralize Hoover and the FBI??

Could Hoover have manipulated a cover-up involving Federal agencies and authorities ? Quite possibley ,with his extensive knowledge of the sins of high government officials....Could Hoover have been powerful enough to persuade or command some of the highest officials to the government to perjure themselves before the American public? Only to a certain extent, for not, all the officials would have bowed before him.....he did have some "clean" enemies..who would never have yielded to the pressure of the demigod..Of all the individuals who have held the position of public trust ,Hoover was one of the most powerful, but the execution of the President and the en-suing cover-up required far more than the power and influence this one individual could muster from his files...

While Hoover may have known JFK was to be murdered ,and did play a central role in the cover-up, there is nothing to suggest that the plot originated with the FBI Director....

If the Commission had decided to publish it's false report"in the public interest"...as the better part of descretion it could then be viewed as a delegation of the civilian leaders of the country accepting the terms laid down by the Military...

Who would benefit from Earl Warren who was a very respected liberal and a loved man, who led the Supreme Court..and conducted the secret hearings of the Commission....why and what purpose would be served in having such a liberal and distinguished man sponsor the Warren Commission Report...??? Recall from the beginning it revealed itself to be a compiliation of lies and distortion of the truth..Congress was also represented on the WC.. and Congress remained quiet and raised no queries in face of the majority of it's citizens believing in a conspiracy..The Commission was all so transparant it appeared to distort the view of the american citizens in the years that followed ,to have them question and have little faith left if any in their Government proccess, their politicians, their law enforcement agencies, and they seemed to loose their confidence in law and order and anything pertaining to Government...How could a rich, famous, much loved ,popular President be murdered in a shower of bullets and then to have been buried in a barrage of lies from the same government that he had been elected to lead..?????

Perhaps to stun the population into silence as they watched messmerized before their TVs...and into mourning to have them retreat into a feeling of utter helplessness while a new Government took hold and and executed their power over all, the Military-Industrial-Complex....an amalgamation of the armed forces, the CIA..FBI..Intelligence Community.....and the Industrial and Busininess complex....

The left blamed the right..the right blamed the left...the liberals were blamed because after all LHO was a member of the ACLU...and Warren was blamed along with the courts because he became involved in a transparent cover-up of the Assassination....Congress proved useless as it remained silent, when it should have been serving the people whom had spoken....LBJ was blamed ,after all it happened in Texas, and a lot of his good ole boys would have complied with his wishes....

All this while a new form of Government took hold, with no conscience whatsoever for the act of cold blooded murder....

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The Right Wing

The Warren Commission spent a considerable amount of time trying to dispel speculation of a right wing plot...to kill JFK..It was a strong possibility as it occurred in Dallas, Texas...which was a leading center of political conservatism at the time...in the U.S..In 1963 Dallas was a hub of right -wing activity..led by the John Birch Society, the White Citizens Council, Big Dalas also had one of the highest murder rates in the US..It was the home of such right wing characters as H.L.Hunt, multimillonaire oilman,who expounded ultra conservative views in books, pamphlets, a syndicated radio show...Major General (Resigned) Edwin A.Walker...right wing fanatic..relieved of command in 62, by President Kennedy after he refused to cease his indoctrination of his troops with John Birch literature..Ambassador Adlai Stevenson of the U.N. had been cursed and spat upon,and struck by a placard reading "Who Elected You" by a woman Cora Fredrickson, outside the Baker Hotel.. Oct.24/63..in a protest rally staged by Walker's National Indignation Committee....The incident received nation wide attention and darkened Dallas' already tarnished reputation.

Nov.22/63 ...in making matters worse, General Walker, flew the flag outside his home up-side down..a signal of national distress..after the President was murdered he put the flag right side up and refused to lower it at half-staff...a sign of respect..

The day of the assassination Hunt and Walker's....activities are interesting. At 12.23pm the oilman watched down on the motorcade from his office on the 7th Floor of the Mercantile Bank Building...afterward, he was escorted by agents of the FBI, and went directly to Dallas Love Field, and departed on Flight 44..The General ,meanwhile was in an airoplane between New Orleans and Shreveport: when news of the shooting came over the public address system ,Walker became very excited and nervous..He roamed up and down the aisle of the plane ,making sure fellow passengers and stewardesses took note of him ..Walker latter joined Hunt at one of the oil baron's secret hideaways across the Mexican boarder and the pair remained there for a month...under the protection of bodyguards and, reportedly ,the FBI..The Hunt-Walker party did not return to "Big D" till Christmas..Then there were the leaflets ,the notorious "Wanted For Treason"..that were circulating on the streets two days before the President's visit..the leaflets listed seven charges against him...two were.."He has given support and encouragement to the Communist-inspired racial riots."and "He has been lax in enforcing Communist Registration laws,"the leaflets were connected to Walker...Robert A Surrey had them printed and distributed..a business connection of his..

In the Nov.22/63 edition of the "Dallas Morning News" they carried the infamous full-page black-bordered advertisement highly critical of Kennedy..Among those financing the ad were Nelson Bunker Hunt, son of the oilman,and Bernard Weissman, who had served under General Walker in Germany. Sponsorship for the ad was attributed to the American Fact-Finding Committee, which Weissman later testified was" formed strictly for the purpose of having a name to put in the paper.The ad with it's large headline, "Welcome Mr.Kennedy to Dallas"..was followed by a list of critical questions..all to do in some way with pointing the finger at the President for his alleged Communist ties..this ad prompted President Kennedy to remark privately in the Fort Worth Texas Hotel that morning, "We're in nut country now."

Men like Walker and Hunt were displeased to say it mildly with Kennedy's liberal view..and what they called "bleeding heart" actions, in particluar his support for the civil right movement..and his dealings with Russia and Castro..These men genuinely feared a Communist takeover..a fear so intense that sometimes it reached a state of paranoia..and they shed no tears when he was killed..most felt a sense of relief...

Men like Joseph Milteer, who predicted in Florida his death and talked of the blueprint used in Dallas...(an informant making a tape of the conversation)....the rifle, the window, high building and all...he was also in Dallas on the 22nd..and at 10.30am..he telephoned his informant in Jacksonville, Florida..to say that JFK would be visiting Dallas that day, and would probably never be seen in Miami again.He had returned to Florida by the next day and was jubilant at the death of Kennedy, he was interviewed by the FBI on Nov. 27th.denied making any threats about the President, and released and yet two FBI informants had related this information to them...The WC was not aware of the Miami police tape and Milteer's name does not appear within the 26 volumes..The tape was not made public until Feb.2/67 in the Miami News story by reporter Bill Barry.

Did the right wing elements have reasonable motive for assassinating the President.?

Yes! in a perverted sense of patriotism.. arising from their fear of Cummunist-domination of the Western Hemisphere....

Did the right wing possess the power and resources to kill an American President.?

Could the right wing have manipulated a cover-up involving Federal Agencies and authorities ? No..it is extremely unlikely..

Could they have been powerful enough to persuade or command some of the highest officials of the government to perjure themselves before the American public.? No..For instance would a staunch liberal like Earl Warren consent to cover-up evidence of a non gevernmental ,right wing plot....I do not think so, the power of the far right wing simply did not reach high enough into the structure of the governent...they did not have the power to control a man like Earl Warren...

It also would be illogical for the Right to carry out the murder in a center of ultra-right activity like Dallas..thereby imputing blame on the Right...While right wing elements may have been incorporated into the operational stage of the assassination by the planners, responsibility for the murder of JFK lies somewhere other than with the Right Wing...

*******************************************

The Texas Oilmen..

The late H.L.Hunt has often been mentioned as well as Sid Richardson and Clint Murchison as being perhaps providing the funding..for the assassination operation.

As a rule oil men are staunch conservatives..and their reason for wanting JFK out of office would be similar to the previous reasons given for the right , with two additions...On Oct 16/62 a law known as the Kennedy Act removed the distinction between repatriated profits re-invested abroad and in the case of American Companies with overseas operations. Both were henceforth subject to American taxation .This measure was aimed at American Ind. as a whole ,but it particularly affected the oil companies...which had the largest and most diversified overseas activities...By the end of 62...oilmen wre estimating that their earnings on foreign invested capitol ,which in 55 had equalled 30%, would fall to 15%..as a result of this measure..One of the biggest breaks in taxes for the oilmen was in the depletion allowance a 27.1/2%...tax break....a special provision of the Federal income tax under which oil producers could treat up to 27 % of their income as exempt from income tax..supposedly to compensate for the depletion of oil reserves..( spelling it out, every time they took oil out of the ground, they were allowed to sell it, plus get a kick back from the Governement of 27% on it, because they took it out, and there was that much less underground??)...This gave the oil people a lower tax rate than any other industry .In Jan 63..President Kennedy proposed to Congress that this generous benefit be reduced..With 5 billion dollars in income annually from oil and gas in Texas alone, any reduction would be a sizable figure...Overall, it was estimated that U.S. oil interests would forfeit $280..million dollars a year..if the depletion allowance was deminished ..Of course the idea was not very attractive..so in the Lone Star State ,oilmen would have preferred to see a fellow Texan in the White House..and LBJ was an old and dear friend of "King Oil"...

Did Texas oil think they had a reasonable motive for wanting JFK removed from office ? Yes..to protect it's economics ,not to mention their general displeasure at Kennedy's liberal policies..

Did Texas Oil have the power...and resources to kill a President ?? Obviously it lacked nothing that money could buy...it's wealth could have bought the finest hitmen in the business of assassination..and placed one of Texas' own at the pinnacle of power...Could they have manipulated the cover-up, to some extent ?..No doubt they carried a lot of weight on Captiol Hill and could have and more than likely did influence the Johnson WH to some extent..But, it would have taken much more than money to have bought the FBI ,the CIA, the Military ,the Secret Service and certain high goverment officials...it seems impossible.....

Could they have been powerful enough to have commanded or persuaded some of the highest officials in the land..to perjure themselves,before the American public.?

The oil men lacked this kind of influence to pressure some leaders to lie and conceal the truth...some were too honest and stubborn perhaps, to be bought off...

While some could have provided financial support of the assassination operations , the Texas Oil did lack the power to carry out both phases ...the assassination and the Cover-Up....

********************

If we ask who gained, with the murder of John Kennedy ,it appears the Pentagon-CIA coalition ended once and for all the threat of civilian control... It had regained it's power that it had lost temporarily during Kennedy's tenure as President..The assassination insured the continuation of the Cold War and brought about a complete reversal of Kennedy's planned US policy towards Southeast Asia.This policy change resulted in an undeclared war..which appears to have served no purpose other than the building up of 220 ?billion dollars in military equipment ..and in turn provided power for the military and wealth for its industrial counterpart..

Did the military-industrial complex have the power to kill it's own Commander-In-Chief..?

Beyond the shadow of a doubt..

The Pentagon was and is the worlds biggest corporation..In 1960 it's assests totalled $60 billion..It owned more than 32 million acres of land in the US, and 2.5 million overseas..It's holdings were twice as large as General Motors, US Steel, A.T & T, Metropolitan Life and Standard Oil of New Jersey combined...Few states and few countries had a budget as large as the Pentagon...One third of the other countries in the World at that time had a smaller population...Couple this with it's industrial counterpart and it was and is utterly staggering....

Completing the make-up of this coalition was the Central Intelligence Agency..

the most effective Assassination machine the world has ever known...The CIA was and is a power in it's own. It's budget was counted in the millions in 1963 and the Agency was not required to account for any of it..It had tens of thousands of employees including " contact agents" "contract employees" who had infiltrated almost every aspect of American life....It was originally created only as an intelligence gathering arm of the President, but we know now that assassination is one of it's foremost specialties. We know it recruits, arms, and trains men to kill foreign leaders.....and it could have just as easily planned and executed the murder of a President...who was in the way...

The assassination of J.F.K. bears every mark of a CIA operation...

1: Create a believable cover story..that would be accepted almost immediately by the mass media and public..Have it at the ready....and distribute it almost immediately..

2: The sacrifice and manipulation of a "scapegoat" or "false sponsor" which detracts the attention from the real killers.( This accomplishes two things...the objective of concealing the motive...and the involvement of government elements.)

3: The precision ambush, utilizing a quadrangulated crossfire....(the perfect spot

Dealey Plaza )..

More than anyone or anything known the Military-Industrial-Complex possessed the power and resources to kill a President.....and get away with it...

How could they cover-up and manipulate Federal agencies and authorities? Who could prolong that cover-up..?..One cannot over-estimate the power and influence of the MIC complex on the White House, Congress and other factions of American government. It's importance was cited in a 1962 magazine article written by the authors of "Seven Days in May"....

"Beyond this new political importance, the military now carries a Big stick...perhaps the biggest ..in the economic life of the nation. Great defense lobbies ,working in behalf of a single service or a certain weapons system, operate in Washington, seeking a bigger bite of that $50 (63) billion spending pie. Retired military officers flood the executive suites of defense industries: a House Armed Services sub-committee found that that more than 1,400 retired officers, including 261 generals and admirals, were employed by the hundred leading defense contractors. Each service has it's own alumni association which seeks to promote it's aims.There have been occasions when a service ,it's association and the defense contractors involved have all joined in a propganda-advertising campaign in behalf of a weapon that competes with a rival service's weapons for defense appropriations .Cases in point: the arguments over the Army's Nike-Zeus antimissile missile and the Air Force's B-70 bomber."

"Much of this pressure finally focuses on individual congressmen and key committee positions or votes. A congressional district generates it's own politico-economic pressures too.In 1961. the Congressional Quaterly listed over 700 defense activities in their districts..And the list covered only Government installations ,leaving aside the long list of private industrial contractors"..Knebel & Bailey.."Military Control Can It Happen Here"..Look magazine 9.11.62..

The Military-Industrial-Complex..more than any one group, and more than anything known...could have exerted the extreme pressure on key individuals in the government to participate in the cover-up using the reason of "national security".

By maintaining it's awsome power ,the coalition has insured the continuation of the cover-up by the Federal Authorities, to this day.....

Who could have been powerful enough to persuade or command some of the highest officials of the government and to purjure themselves before the American public..???

Only the Military-Industrial complex with it's intelligence apparatus ..with it's ability to persuade certain government officials ,by the use of false documents, photographs or other evidence .......for instance that John F.Kennedy had Communist ties or tendencies : the officials could have been told that rather than expose that shocking, ominous information to the public,.. ( which we should recall the Right Wing and the Cuban Eiles were promoting )... it had been decided that murder was the only alternate ....or as they say...." for the good of the country"...

of course..Only the MI complex had the power to command ,where necessary, under whatever explanation, and or threat, certain Federal officials to help perpetuate the cover-up...What one person could or would dare refuse that awesome cartel???

A sobering thought when one finds that the murder of a President could have been planned and executed by a force within the government , and which is more powerful than the goverment itself...so powerful that it can initiate and cover up facts concerning this murder ..Through whatever means it deems necessary .....financial influence , political pressure, or threat of physical harm, or the disclosure of past personal picadillos and secrets ....all is fair in their suppression of the truth...

On Nov. 22/63...this cabal executed a man it considered a criminal...a weak treasonous and incompetent commander-in-chief...(in their eyes).

On April 5/1968, Martin Luther King ..June 5/1968 RFK...and May 15/1972...GeorgeWallace..

brutal force was again used to silence potentially disruptive voices. Tiring of the "blow out their brains" technique ,the cabal returned to character assassination...

This method perhaps claimed it's first victim on July 18/1969 ,at Chappaquiddick Island ...Edward Moore Kennedy...Aug.9/1974, used again to remove another Commander -In-Chief .

Richard Nixon was driven from office : his improbity had been proven beyond any doubt and the cartel felt he no longer served their purpose..

Will Democracy ever recover from results of the decision made by these men in 1963 ?

As in every great Empire of the past, they begin to crumble from within...A Power-mad money-hungry-cabal that kills it's President, stops at nothing...as they do believe they know what is best for the country ,and will never again allow the accidental election to the Presidency of a man such as John F.Kennedy..It is the deprivation of

life to any who opposes them that permits the power-elite to maintain control over the Presidency .In this manner they guarantee their perpetuation of power..

America has accepted nearly 42 years of bloodshed by war and political assassinations ,as well as governmental and nongovernmental sanction of atrocities commited domestically and abroad..It is this type of apathy which has lent license to the cabal's brutal display of awesome force...and They are convinced they can do it again and again.....

Thanks Gary Shaw...and others below...B.. ;)

Wise & Ross: "The Espionage Establishment.."..

U.S.Government: "Report of the President's Commission on the Assassination

of President Kennedy".

McGaffin & Knoll: "Scandal in the Pentagon".

Garrison: "A Heritage of Stone ".

Hepburn James: "Farewell America".

Jones Penn: " Forgive My Grief #1V".

Knebel & Bailey: magazine article " Seven Days In May"..

L.Fletcher Prouty:"The Secret Team".

Harold Wesiberg: "Post Mortum"

Fonzi Gaeton: "The Last Investigation".

Warren Report and Hearings ..

"The White House Tapes": Bantam books .

Huffaker,Mercer,Phenix,Wise." When The News Went Live".

Joeston,Joachim: "Oswald :Assassin or Fall Guy."

Manchester,William:"The Death of a President"

Jones Penn:"Forgive My Grief" Vol.111

Bishop,Jim: "The Day Kennedy Was Shot"

From Shaw Gary: "Cover-Up"...

Edited by Bernice Moore
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Bernice posted:

Warren accepted what to some appear to be orders ,and did a great disservice to the country and to the Constitution but a great service to the MIC, he also showed contempt for the American public whom the majority had stated loud and clear that they believed there was a conspiracy.....the American people were to be misled, lied to, confused, and manipulated, and also pay the cost as taxpayers for the Warren Commission, that carried his name.....he continued with his charade..and pretended to be looking for the truth but in reality he had apparently accepted his orders and was in compliance...Why ?..whatever his reasons...he then proceeded to allow the fantasy to be created....By not informing the citizens of the United States ,of the lies held within this announcement was he was guilty of obstruction of justice ?

Of course the alternative explanation, the explanation that is consistent with the transcripts of LBJ's phone calls is that, correctly or not, LBJ feared that a full-fledged investigation would lead to evidence of foreign involvement in the assassination and that, inexorably, would lead to a cataclysmic nuclear exchange and the death of "forty million innocent Americans".

Now there are several possible reasons for LBJ's concern:

1. In fact there was foreign involvement.

2. There was no foreign involvement but the conspirators made LHO the patsy and planted evidence of foreign involvement because they anticipated this would lead to a cover-up so their evil deeds would not be discovered.

3. There was no foreign involvement but the conspirators made LHO the patsy and planted evidence of foreign involvement to attempt to blame Castro and prompt LBJ to invade Cuba and finally get rid of Castro.

4. There was no foreign involvement but the conspirators made LHO the patsy and planted evidence of foreign involvement without necessarily thinking through all of the consequences other than to cover up their own involvement.

5. There was no foreign involvement and little planted evidence but the fact that the designated patsy was LHO nevertheless led to concern of foreign involvement.

NOW, let us assume that LBJ believes that a full-fledged investigation will either: a) prove that the mafia killed Kennedy; or :up prove that Cuba, probably with the help of the KGB, killed Kennedy. If he has a complete investigation, (a) might be proved (thus no war); but (;) might be proved, thus the war scenario. When he has to decide the scope of the investigation, he knows he is opening a pandora's box. So he must have the cover-up because of the POSSIBILITY of foreign involvement.

The above are the scenarios that are consistent with the evidence. And for (a) you can substitute any other potential sponsor (e.g. Southern racists, oil barons or whomever). The point remains, unless LBJ himself did it, based on the evidence before him he was rightly concerned about possibly tragic consequences of a full-fledged investigation. Now if you want to assume that LBJ did it (based on the slightest evidence) nevertheless he used the war scenario to convince Warren.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Warren had any motive to participate in a cover-up other than the war argument used on him by LBJ.

If in fact there WAS foreign involvement (I know that theory is not popular here) Warren's decision may have and probably did prevent a tragedy. If there was not, his decision may have allowed the true assassins to escape, but that is being a Monday morning quarterback.

Unless LBJ did it, both he and Warren had understandable motives in authorizing a cover-up, even if the evidence on which they based their decision was planted by the "guilty men".

And of course RFK had reasons of his own to encourage a cover-up (fear of disclosure of some of the "dark secrets of Camelot".

And Allen Dulles did not want the CIA plots to kill Castro to surface. It was RFK who requested the placement of Dulles on the WC. If the Kennedys were aware of the CIA plots, they would also have wanted Dulles on the WC to prevent disclosure of those plots which would have embarrassed the Kennedys as well as the CIA.

In my opinion, the "cover-up" may very well have been orchestrated by several people, for different reasons, who had no complicity in the assassination.

Of course I understand there is an alternate explanation of the cover-up, that LBJ ordered it because he was guilty. But I repeat my point that I am aware of no evidence that Warren did not participate due to the fear of war placed in him by LBJ.

PLEASE NOTE: Those stupid happy faces are supposed to be "b"s!!

Edited by Tim Gratz
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I wrote:

Mark, it bothers me not one wit [etc]

Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:

The word is "whit." I don't usually stoop to correcting other people's typos, etc., because I make enough mistakes of my own. However, since you cannot resist an opportunity to condescend toward other posters here regarding their use of English, perhaps it's time you were held to account to your own standard.

Robert is correct, of course. I appreciate the correction. It was a typo, as Robert knows. Despitr his self-deprecation, I have not seen many (any?) typogrphical or grammatical errors in his postings.

It's his logical errors that drive me crazy! (Sorry, just a "whiticism"!)

Edited by Tim Gratz
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Pat wrote:

Tim, I know of at least one book YOU should read: "Robert Kennedy: In His Own Words," taken from previously unpublished interviews conducted for the JFK Library. In it he reveals that JFK DID NOT want to over-throw Diem, at least not until they found somebody better, and that he only agreed to it when Harriman and Hilsman misled him into thinking that Taylor and McNamara had signed off on it when they hadn't.

I would like to read it! Interesting that Harriman apparently lied to manipulate the coup. Trento wrote, approvingly, if I recall, that Angleton suspected Harriman was a "mole". The over-throw of Diem had tragic consequences for the US effort in Vietnam. If Harriman was indeed a mole, that would explain his perfidy in this matter.

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Mark wrote:

IMO, you're not a genuine researcher, just a pest running an agenda

Mark, I am sure you never even stopped to seriously evaluate my questions just as I am sure you never took my suggestion and read Theodore Sorenson's comments on the relationship between Kennedy and Dillon. I have even read transcripts of meetings between Kennedy and Dillon.

As far as being a "pest", I am sorry if my posts bother you. I am at a loss for a word to describe a person who stoops to accuse someone of murdering his friend without even the smallest piece of evidence to support it. I think thay conduct is beyond reprehensible. As I said, it is people like you who bring discredit to the entire assassination research community, and that is indeed a shame.

You complain that I did not answer your question. Let me quote your question:

How can you be so certain that Dillon didn't have other friends--better friends, older friends--than JFK? Friends who suggested to Dillon that JFK's departure was in the best interests of all. Dillon was well connected with Eastern banking and finance interests was he not? This is no accusation, only a question. I'm saying it's possible that Dillon knew, nothing more. You are saying this is impossible--how so?

So your question is how do I know that one of Dillon's friends in the Eastern banking or financial establishment did not ask Dillon to participate in the murder of the President? I am sorry I have to spell it out for you, Mark, but since you asked: (1) Anyone of any position in the financial or banking establishment obviously is a person of intelligence; (2) only an idiot or imbecile would approach a personal friend of the President and request his assistance in plotting or executing the murder of the President; (3) as a friend of Kennedy, Dillon would have arranged for the immediate arrest of anyone he knew was plotting his murder (which we know did not happen).

Although I question your morals in accusing blameless people of murder, I have no reason for believing you to be a violent man. Your postings do cause me to question your judgment however. Therefore, SHOULD you ever decide to kill someone, let me offer you this modest suggestion: look to the person's ENEMIES for assistance. If you ask a friend of your intended victim to assist in the murder, you'll no doubt be in the slammer before the day is over!

Let me also add that I am sure that John Kennedy would utterly deplore your speculation about his friend Douglas Dillon. If the spirit moves me, I AM going to wrote to Theodore Sorenson and ask for his comments on this idiocy. I assume, correct me if I am wrong, that you have never read Sorenson's biography of Kennedy. Wait a minute--I can anticipate your question: "What proof do you have, Tim, that Soreson did not participate in the assassination with Dillon?" Gee, Mark, I guess it just comes down to good old common sense and everyday experience: a person does not kill his friend.

Edited by Tim Gratz
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I guess it just comes down to good old common sense and everyday experience: a person does not kill his friend.

Tim, you apparently aren't aware that this particular crime happens every day in America. Ever hear the phrase "crime of passion"?? Friends kill friends EVERY DAY in America; if you aren't aware of that fact, you lead an extremely sheltered life, and I suggest you pick up a newspaper from ANY major metropolitan area and read the daily crime reports to confirm the veracity of my statement.

As far as the CONTEXT of your statement--which statement was a BLAZING generality with no basis in fact--like you, I also have difficulty in accepting that Dillon had any ACTIVE part in the JFK assassination...including the ACTION of ordering, or suggesting, that the Secret Service stand back and allow it to occur.

Dillon, as I have stated several times before, was a bureaucrat...a "company man," if you will...his upper-management task was to make the whole of the Treasury Department look good, and NOT to meddle in the day-to-day mundane work of SS, BATF, or any other division. In case you haven't grasped my point: DILLON THOUGHT IT WAS BENEATH HIS STATION AS TREASURY SECRETARY TO DEAL WITH THE DAILY GRIND. He was, for lack of a better term, what we would today call an "elitist." So I just don't find allegations of his active participation in the assassination to be plausible.

And therefore, I DON'T believe he participated in killing his friend, JFK. But I won't be so naive as to make a blanket statement that such things NEVER happen. [They just never happen in "polite society"...right, Tim? Wrong again; if you read the newspapers, you already know better.]

My point? Tim, I wish you'd be more careful [i.e., ACCURATE] when speaking/writing in generalities. Your carelessness only affects your credibility, after all.

Edited by Mark Knight
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Hi Bernice-

Great posts!

If you, or anyone out there, has a copy of the 1963 book The Torch Is Passed, there is a great photo on page 71 titled "The Nation's Military Leaders In The Funeral Procession."

Unfortunately, I am having trouble with my scanner and can't get it digitized. If someone could post that photo, it would be most appropriate on this thread. It's haunting.

There's also a photo of a very troubled looking Ike on page 82. One wonders, given the comments he made in his farewell address and his knowledge of these military leaders, if he suspected the truth as soon as he heard about Dallas.

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Greg, here's an attempt at posting the pic on p. 71:

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OK...we'll try again...

Edited by Mark Knight
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Now if you want to assume that LBJ did it (based on the slightest evidence) nevertheless he used the war scenario to convince Warren.

Tim,

Exactly. And you can talk about "the slightest evidence" all you want regarding LBJ, but the fact is that he not only had means, motive, and opportunity, which are the qualifications of a suspect, but he had the strongest motive of anyone who has ever been suspected in the JFK murder (with the exception, of course, of Castro in your view).

LBJ politically and personally was in a desperate situation. One can argue that Hoover was in a desperate situation in the subjective sense of wanting to keep his hallowed job and not have to retire like most folks like to do. One can argue that the military industrial complex was in a desperate situation in the subjective sense of possibly being deprived of a good war in Southeast Asia, which ordinary folks would gladly do without. One can argue that the CIA was in a desperate situation in the subjective sense of having to come up with some clever new covert operation to top the last one, the more illegal, deadly, and chemically profitable the better. But LBJ was in a desperate situation in the purely objective sense of wanting to stay out of prison, a desire that everyone on the planet, no matter how low on the totem pole, can readily understand and identify with.

You will no doubt argue that Castro was even more desperate, in wanting to stay alive, to which I have argued (and I don't recall a reply) that if Castro wanted JFK dead in order to go on living himself, all he had to do was wait, as his spies in the exile community would know that a plot against JFK involving anti-Castro exiles and their backers was in the offing.

In any case, I doubt that LBJ would wait around hoping that Castro or somebody else might off JFK for whatever reason. LBJ had reason enough, and is known to have been capable enough, and plotted with others to get the job done. And with hearings underway on Capitol Hill on November 22, for LBJ it went right down to the wire.

Ron

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Mark, you get my vote for forum member with whom I'd most like to share a drink.

:up

Stan,

Thanks for that. I've been out all day and, as I often do, I forgot to log off. Tim must think I'm gobsmacked or something. If I resist the temptation to reply, his interjections will gradually grow in volume and intensity, just watch. I can read him like a book. Anyway, I noticed Bernice just posted another piece so I think I'll check that out. There's more interesting pursuits than arguing with right-wing toadies who masquerade as assassination researchers--oops, I think I just replied. If I ever get back to the States again I might take you up on that drink.

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