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I know this will probably be as popular here as my "Fidel Did It" scenario but I think we need to consider the possibility that the assassination was a mob hit, pure and simple. I guess that is the Blakely-Billing thesis.

I think it is rather clear that Trafficante was involved, and probably Marcello as well. And possibly Hoffa. You will of course recall that Ragano claims that he delivered a request from Hoffa to Trafficante and Marcello to kill Kennedy for him.

Some people think the Hoffa murder may be related to the Kennedy assassination.

I have posted elsewhere that while Marcello was under the influence of medication in a hospital and being watched by FBI agents he made reference to being involved in the assassination. And Trafficante was caught by FBI tape stating after ther Rosselli murder that "now only two people" know who killed Kennedy.

Of course the mob have both means, motive and opportunity to kill Kennedy. The mob believed JFK had "double-crossed" it by naming RFK his AG and having RFK diligently pursue the mob. Some of the mobsters certainly had as much potential of being imprisoned as LBJ did.

The cover-up could have been a result of LBJ's sincere concern over the possibility of a foreign conspiracy leading to a war. Then again it is also possible that the mob blackmailed LBJ. There are, of course, reports that LBJ took regular bribes from a bagman from Marcello. The Mafia could have also blackmailed RFK into going along with the cover-up, possibly with the tape recordings of Marilyn Monroe entertaining JFK and RFK. Reportedly Spindell (sp?) was making those tapes at the request of Hoffa.

The mafia also probably realized that the country could not afford an investigation since the CIA had contracted with the mafia to kill JFK. That gave the mafia its "get out of jail free" card: its chance to kill JFK with impunity.

Rosselli's propounding a "Castro did it" scenario could then have been a ploy to direct investigative attention away from the mafia.

The possibility that the JFK assassination was simply a mob hit deserves careful consideration, in my opinion. Given Ruby's involvement we know that the mafia was at least involved in the assassination. The question is: did it have partners?

Edited by Tim Gratz
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Tim, you're not really out there on this one. I believe the mob had the pull and the power to pull it off, with the help of some anti-Castro Cubans, who were in the process of switching allegiance from the CIA to the mob. A lot of Larry Hancock's work points in this direction.

When some think about who LBJ would be willing to protect, they think Government, military Industrial Complex, etc. I think there were skeletons in his closet that he was trying to keep hid--and that these same skeletons were in the closets of Warren, Nixon, and JFK himself. There's an enlightening interview with Marcello in the book Pay-off. He considered himself a businessman just like anybody else and if the MIC or ITT could spend beaucoup bucks to insure that they got represented fairly in Washington, why couldn't he?

I've always suspected that there was someone with CIA ties who was orchestrating the whole thing. Someone far more substantial than David Ferrie or Clay Shaw. Which is why Robert Maheu holds such an interest for me. If the mob didn't use him they should have.

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Pat wrote:

Tim, you're not really out there on this one.

Pat, not sure if that was a complement or an insult?

Re your Maheu theory, I could be wrong but I am not sure that Maheu was smart enough to be the planner.

I think the most intelligent people who could have planned the whole thing were Trafficante and Rosselli.

It is certainly possible that Rosselli dragged Morales or Robertson into it to muddy the waters (and also help gurantee a cover-up).

Edited by Tim Gratz
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I know this will probably be as popular here as my "Fidel Did It" scenario but I think we need to consider the possibility that the assassination was a mob hit, pure and simple.  I guess that is the Blakely-Billing thesis.

I am not one of those who subscribe to the idea that you are a CIA plant. However, your postings do follow a certain pattern. I was therefore not surprised by your change of strategy.

We now know that Hoover’s first reaction was that it the assassination was a Soviet/Cuban plot. After all, he had some evidence to back up this theory. It was clear that at least two gunman were involved. Oswald had been arrested and he had links to both the Soviet Union and to Castro’s Cuba.

The joint CIA/FBI report into the assassination (carried out by James Angleton and William Sullivan) came to a similar conclusion although they were both worried about the fact that Oswald had been working for both their organizations.

As you know LBJ decided to go with the lone gunman theory. The FBI and CIA were forced to go along with this strategy. Operation Mockingbird was then brought into play to back up the lone gunman theory.

The problem was that despite its policy of smearing critics of this theory, the American public was not convinced by this idea. Polls continued to show that people thought that Oswald was part of a conspiracy. What they did not know was who was behind this conspiracy.

The Jim Garrison investigation caused them particular problems. He was able to track down the involvement of CIA assets based in New Orleans. This was only a small part of the total conspiracy, but it was a highly dangerous development.

In January, 1967, the CIA decided to use Dick Billings to infiltrate the Garrison investigation. Billings tried to persuade Garrison that the Mafia had assassinated JFK. When he refused to be sidetracked the CIA used Operation Mockingbird to smear Garrison as being in the pay of the Mafia. Billings led this campaign (started by an article in Look Magazine in September, 1967) but he also had noble assistance from other CIA assets such as Jack Anderson.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbillings.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKgarrison.htm

The CIA also used Anderson to publish stories that attempted to link the assassination to the Mafia (via the stories that the Mafia had been involved in attempts to assassinate Castro). This strategy was very successful. For years researchers have been bogged down in looking for the link between the Mafia and the assassination. No doubt that some mobsters such as Johnny Martino did have a small part to play in the assassination of JFK (note that Martino was not exposed by CIA assets) but it was not a Mafia organized killing.

People who argue for a Castro/Soviet/Mafia conspiracy have two major problems to overcome.

(1) Motive: None of the above had a good motive to want JFK dead. In fact, Castro and the Soviets had good reasons to want him left alive. LBJ knew that and was probably a major factor in why he refused to go along with the Castro/Soviet theory. He knew what the American public did not know at the time, JFK was attempting to bring the Cold War to an end. The Mafia had good reason to hate the Kennedys. However, it was no way in their interests to have the brothers assassinated. They knew that if the plot was discovered, it would have meant the end of the Mafia in the United States.

(2) Cover-Up: Castro/Soviet/Mafia did not have the power to cover-up the assassination. This includes removing and tampering with the evidence, destroying FBI and CIA files, controlling the way the American media reported the assassination, the Warren Report, smearing critics of the lone gunman theory, etc. Although the people who carried out the cover-up might not have been the ones who carried out the assassination, they are obviously connected in some way. It is the person who shows the connections between the assassination and the cover-up who will eventually solve the crime of the century.

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John, I wish I was a CIA plant! Do you think if I send them my posts they will put me on the Mockingbird payroll? I assume it pays more than my current job!

It is not a change of strategy, however, as much as it is just what it states: an alternative theory. My "Castro did it" scenario has always included Castro's employment of Santo Trafficante, Jr. I have acknowledged that I could be wrong about Cuban involvement (and the ongoing Cubela caper was a mere coincidence, not conspiracy). But IF (and I consider THAT a BIG "if") I am wrong about Fidel that still leaves Santo, his buddy Ruby, and probably Rosselli.

I am reserving this spot to reply (tonight) to your post which does deserve a thoughtful reply (although some of it, of course, is "plowed ground").

Edited by Tim Gratz
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John, I wish I was a CIA plant!  Do you think if I send them my posts they will put me on the Mockingbird payroll?  I assume it pays more than my current job!

Do you want me to write you a reference? However, your cover has been blown on the Forum and you will have to register with a new name. You also will need to develop a more sophisticated style. Concentrate more on asking awkward questions of those who are on the right track rather than by promoting your own outdated theories.

I am afraid that I will have to write on your reference that you are too emotional and ideologically committed to become a good CIA disinformation agent. They do not need people on the far right to do their job for them. They do that (as you do) automatically without pay. As Tom Braden of Operation Mockingbird once said, the CIA need people who appear to be left of centre intellectuals as disinformation agents. That is why the CIA have made so much use of the Washington Post in the past. I am afraid I have more chance of being recruited to the CIA than you do.

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  • 1 year later...
Hello All

If we want to be SERIOUS, and consider the reality of all intelligence agency "LAYERING", and the maintenance of "Plausible Denial", I seriously doubt that more than a handful had access to the entire scheme, and even those were not privvy to many of the "individuals" involved that were not among this handful of elite. The elite very likely knew only of their other elite compatriots.

This is the WHY of "no one has talked". Only those on the periphery heard rumors of a " a hit coming down" from others at the periphery.

This is why I have maintained, and some think me crazy as the result, that the Mafia and the anti Castro Cubans were not involved. They could not be absolutely controlled and their silence guaranteed.

I think I would disagree about the non involvement of the Mafia.

I wonder if the forum has discussed Bill Pepper's latest book "An Act of State" (published 2003) that looks at the fabricated blame placed on James earl Ray for the killing of Martin Luther King? Pepper has now proved in court that Ray was not involved. He goes into great detail about who was responsible in his view and marshals some impressive facts to support that view. Mafia triggermen, US Army Intelligence back-up and so on. I also think it worth mentioning Prof. Peter Dale Scott's book "Deep Politics and the death of JFK". Finally, Fletcher Prouty's book "JFK, the CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate JFK".

Read one after another these three, I believe, paint a reasonably clear picture of the "muddy" politics swirling behind the JFK assassination.

Adding further to my reply above, I think it also relevant to note that the mafia guarantee of silence was not a particular issue (at least in my view). Speaking out and being believed/taken seriously are two entirely different issues.

Fifteen years ago, Chicago mafia boss. Sam Giacana, wrote about his knowledge of the JFK assassination in his book "Double Cross". According to him, Jack Ruby was "his" man in Dallas. It is also interesting that Giacana fingered Texas "oilmen" for their involvement. Names included Syd Richardson, Clint Murchison, H L Hunt and Mike Davis. It is now fairly well know that Richardson and Perry Bass (the Bass brothers) are thought to have "fronted" for Vito Genovese's money and that Richardson did likewise for Carlos Marcello. Lyndon Johnson who has also been highlighted as being part of the JFK assassination consiracy was also on the mob payroll, according to Giacana. Ditto John Connally. Others who were deeply involved were the very senior CIA officers "it went up to the top of the CIA" he said.

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Hello All

If we want to be SERIOUS, and consider the reality of all intelligence agency "LAYERING", and the maintenance of "Plausible Denial", I seriously doubt that more than a handful had access to the entire scheme, and even those were not privvy to many of the "individuals" involved that were not among this handful of elite. The elite very likely knew only of their other elite compatriots.

This is the WHY of "no one has talked". Only those on the periphery heard rumors of a " a hit coming down" from others at the periphery.

This is why I have maintained, and some think me crazy as the result, that the Mafia and the anti Castro Cubans were not involved. They could not be absolutely controlled and their silence guaranteed.

I think I would disagree about the non involvement of the Mafia.

I wonder if the forum has discussed Bill Pepper's latest book "An Act of State" (published 2003) that looks at the fabricated blame placed on James earl Ray for the killing of Martin Luther King? Pepper has now proved in court that Ray was not involved. He goes into great detail about who was responsible in his view and marshals some impressive facts to support that view. Mafia triggermen, US Army Intelligence back-up and so on. I also think it worth mentioning Prof. Peter Dale Scott's book "Deep Politics and the death of JFK". Finally, Fletcher Prouty's book "JFK, the CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate JFK".

Read one after another these three, I believe, paint a reasonably clear picture of the "muddy" politics swirling behind the JFK assassination.

Adding further to my reply above, I think it also relevant to note that the mafia guarantee of silence was not a particular issue (at least in my view). Speaking out and being believed/taken seriously are two entirely different issues.

Fifteen years ago, Chicago mafia boss. Sam Giacana, wrote about his knowledge of the JFK assassination in his book "Double Cross". According to him, Jack Ruby was "his" man in Dallas. It is also interesting that Giacana fingered Texas "oilmen" for their involvement. Names included Syd Richardson, Clint Murchison, H L Hunt and Mike Davis. It is now fairly well know that Richardson and Perry Bass (the Bass brothers) are thought to have "fronted" for Vito Genovese's money and that Richardson did likewise for Carlos Marcello. Lyndon Johnson who has also been highlighted as being part of the JFK assassination consiracy was also on the mob payroll, according to Giacana. Ditto John Connally. Others who were deeply involved were the very senior CIA officers "it went up to the top of the CIA" he said.

Sam Giancana did not write Double Cross- it was his brother Chuck and nephew Sam.

IN the research for my recently released book on Trafficante, I find the same credible evidence that Ruby was a mob mole in Dallas. He was close with Joe Civello, overtly the mob boss of Dallas, but in reality, one of Marcello's guys (Civello was born in Baton Rouge). Ruby also had the ties through men like David Yaras to the Chicago Outfit. And Trafficante insinuated many times that he knew Ruby. Santo was also friendly with Melvin Belli.

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  • 4 years later...

John H. Davies died from advanced Alzheimers last Sunday. He was the author of several books on John F. Kennedy and the Mafia. This includes Kennedys: Dynasty and Disaster (1983), Mafia Kingfish (1989), The Kennedy Contract: The Mafia Plot to Assassinate the President (1993), Mafia Dynasty: Rise and Fall of the Gambino Crime Family (1994), The Mafia Family (1994) and The Bouviers: From Waterloo to the Kennedys and Beyond (1995).

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I think we should never say, "X" or "Y" entity did it. We can't even say "The CIA" did it, because only certain individuals within these groups were involved. In fact, the top CIA guy on Nov. 22, 1963 (John McCone) is rarely mentioned by CT as a conspirator. Did the Mafia work without help from government agents? Hihgly unlikely. It's like saying the Mafia tried to kill Castro, or the CIA tried to kill Castro, while ignoring the joint effort. Can we deny the participation of some Cuban exiles such as Sergio Arcacha in the murder plot? Unlikely. Different people from different groups had common interests to eliminate JFK. If LBJ had a hand in it, we can't say "LBJ did it" because one person cannot pull it off alone; etc.

The argument that the Mafia (and the Mafia alone) did it makes it necessary to believe that Ruth Paine did not help frame Oswald, because I've never read about Paine being a mobster. She was an intelligence agent.

Edited by Andric Perez
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John H. Davies died from advanced Alzheimers last Sunday. He was the author of several books on John F. Kennedy and the Mafia. This includes Kennedys: Dynasty and Disaster (1983), Mafia Kingfish (1989), The Kennedy Contract: The Mafia Plot to Assassinate the President (1993), Mafia Dynasty: Rise and Fall of the Gambino Crime Family (1994), The Mafia Family (1994) and The Bouviers: From Waterloo to the Kennedys and Beyond (1995).

John Davis was also somehow related to Bouviers - and I agree with Andric that Davis was wrong about the Mafia being behind the assassination as it doesn't explain the set-up or the cover-up, both intelligence operations.

BK

JFKcountercoup

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John H. Davies died from advanced Alzheimers last Sunday. He was the author of several books on John F. Kennedy and the Mafia. This includes Kennedys: Dynasty and Disaster (1983), Mafia Kingfish (1989), The Kennedy Contract: The Mafia Plot to Assassinate the President (1993), Mafia Dynasty: Rise and Fall of the Gambino Crime Family (1994), The Mafia Family (1994) and The Bouviers: From Waterloo to the Kennedys and Beyond (1995).

I read and enjoyed Mafia Kingfish - it is well worth the cost and time it takes to read it.

It gives a lot of insights into its topic - Carlos Marcello.

I didn't realize the author was so prolific on JFK related topics, although I think I may own a copy of The Kennedy Contract: The Mafia Plot to Assassinate the President (where it's languishing in my on deck circle of books to read).

My next book will be Mark Lane's new book.

As an aside, I miss Tim Gratz and his input.

I got to spend a little time with him in Key West several years ago.

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John H. Davies died from advanced Alzheimers last Sunday. He was the author of several books on John F. Kennedy and the Mafia. This includes Kennedys: Dynasty and Disaster (1983), Mafia Kingfish (1989), The Kennedy Contract: The Mafia Plot to Assassinate the President (1993), Mafia Dynasty: Rise and Fall of the Gambino Crime Family (1994), The Mafia Family (1994) and The Bouviers: From Waterloo to the Kennedys and Beyond (1995).

I read and enjoyed Mafia Kingfish - it is well worth the cost and time it takes to read it.

It gives a lot of insights into its topic - Carlos Marcello.

I didn't realize the author was so prolific on JFK related topics, although I think I may own a copy of The Kennedy Contract: The Mafia Plot to Assassinate the President (where it's languishing in my on deck circle of books to read).

My next book will be Mark Lane's new book.

As an aside, I miss Tim Gratz and his input.

I got to spend a little time with him in Key West several years ago.

I agree about Mafia Kingfish -- especially since used copies of the paperback edition can be purchased fairly cheaply online. Seems a good overview of Marcello's rise to power. The main distortion seemed to me simply leaving out details that showed many of the individuals tied to the Marcello organization also had ties to Intelligence.

By the way, the public libraries in Greater New Orleans have been unable to have any copies of the book on their shelves. Copies always had a way of promptly "disappearing".

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The Kennedy's had Carlos Marcello arrested by the authorities and taken forcibly to Guatemala.

Marcello soon returned to the United States. Undercover informants reported that Marcello made several threats against John F. Kennedy at one time uttering the traditional Sicilian death threat curse Take the stone from my shoe.

Marcello's territory went to Dallas where Ruby may have been his man there and Oswald's uncle also work for Marcello.

But also there are links that Marcello may have had ties to the overthrow of Castro where some of his land may have been used to train the Anti-Castro Cubans. There is where David Ferrie comes in. It is said that he was CIA contract pilot. He work for Marcello and also he knew Oswald.

If Marcello was involved in the assassination. A person can see why it needed to be covered up.

If this came out in 64 oh boy!!!!

You have the CIA trying to kill a foreign leader on top of that they are using the Mafia to help them. On top of that Oswald's uncle worked for one of the mafia leaders the CIA was using to kill Castro and on top of that Oswald may have been friends with a CIA contract pilot and also he work for the Mafia!!

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In the New York Times G. Robert Blakey, who was chief counsel and staff director to the House Select Committee on Assassinations has supported the work of Davis: “I think John Davis wrote one of the best books on this theory. And I don’t just say that because I happen to agree with his theory.... His reputation among some writers and assassination investigators as a dilettante was ill-deserved."

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