JFK Lancer Conference

[Gerry Hemming]

Thomas wrote:

Thanks for keeping us up to date. Excellent stuff, indeed. (You are to be commended for bursting Tim's ballon so quickly and so diplomatically.)

Thomas

John wrote:

I have not yet read the book, John. Nor, I imagine, have you. From its reviews I know it does not posit Cuban participation.

Where John has, I think, made progress is in now concluding that there was significant Mafia involvement (a point he had contested with me last winter) and that there were serious efforts afoot for a coup in Cuba (apparently under the code name "AMBLOOD", a rather chilling code name to be sure).

-------------------------

Gratz:

Only a PART of the intended coup d'etat was held within the cryptonyms, AM/TRUNK; AM/TRUCK, etc.;

whereas the categories under AM/BLOOD [and other cryptos] represented the several [and distinctly autonomous] disaffected Cuban civilian & military leaders, and which included aiding & abetting by the Soviet commander of the Banes Naval Base -- where the nuke-tipped "Luna" missiles remained in place !!

JFK & RFK sure as hell weren't going to put their "Nuts-in-just-one-jockstrap", and no way would the scheme have gotten off of Lansdale's now dusty "shelf" -- had there not been several Cuban CIVILIAN (PSP) cliques willing to go the distance !!

Ramiro Valdez [DGI] and "Barba Roja" Piniero [DSE/LCB Cent-Comm "Americas-Wet-Desk"] later came down severely upon some of these suspected "traidores y countrarevolucionarios" !!

Lamar and Thom aren't about to further embarrass the surviveing familis [some of whom are now in CONUS] by giving justification to Fidel's ultimate "Fatal Reaction" to these "complots" !!

Chairs,

GPH

_____________________

[John Simkin]

I have not yet read the book, John. Nor, I imagine, have you. From its reviews I know it does not posit Cuban participation.

Where John has, I think, made progress is in now concluding that there was significant Mafia involvement (a point he had contested with me last winter) and that there were serious efforts afoot for a coup in Cuba (apparently under the code name "AMBLOOD", a rather chilling code name to be sure).

I have read nearly 300 pages so far. I also listened to his presentation and had several conversations with him in Dallas.

I agree I have changed my mind about "Mafia" involvement. All good historians must be willing to change their mind as new evidence becomes available. One of the problems is that historians are often locked into a particular ideology. Hopefully, I am not like that.

One of the reasons I had doubts about the Mafia role concerns its history. It has always been reluctant to "kill" politicians because it feared that this could be the trigger for its destruction (see the Dutch Schulz case). However, Larry Hancock can take credit for changing my mind on this. As he pointed out, it is misleading to talk about the "Mafia" in relation to the assassination. What you had was three mobsters working as individuals. They were only part of a conspiracy that involved anti-Castro Cubans and senior figures in the CIA. I also believe that LBJ's people were also part of this conspiracy. If that is the case, it explains why they knew that the assassination would not trigger its destruction.

[Mark Stapleton]

John,

First rate presentation. I wonder if Teddy will ever reveal what Stockdale really told him and Bobby, instead of merely observing that he was depressed.

One presentation I was very interested in, after reading the schedule you posted, was John Williams, "The conspicuously disowned presence of General Curtis LeMay at Bethesda". How did that go down?

On Mafia involvement, I've always believed that while Marcello and Trafficante are often mentioned as suspects, the person who recieves little focus is Meyer Lansky. While Marcello, Trafficante, Giancana and others were rulers of their fiefdoms, the person who had more influence at a national and international level was Meyer. Still only 61 at the time of the assassination, if the underworld was involved I find it hard to believe Meyer Lansky wasn't a major player. Hence I agree that the term often used (i.e. the mafia) is misleading. I think "underworld influences" is more accurate.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Mark Stapleton

[John Simkin]

One presentation I was very interested in, after reading the schedule you posted, was John Williams, "The conspicuously disowned presence of General Curtis LeMay at Bethesda". How did that go down?

It was very interesting. However, it was very much "research in progress". I will try to persuade him to join the Forum.

[Tim Gratz]

John wrote:

I agree I have changed my mind about "Mafia" involvement. All good historians must be willing to change their mind as new evidence becomes available. One of the problems is that historians are often locked into a particular ideology. Hopefully, I am not like that.

John, I do sincerely commend you for this (as well as for your defense of Mr. Blakey; I am sure it took courage on his part to admit he was "snookered" by the CIA). It does seem like the assassination research community can get locked into certain ideologies which colors all of their thoughts. (And I certainly know I am accused of this despite my protestations that I will follow the evidence wherever it might lead.)

I had just thought it self-evident that there must be Mafia involvement given the use of Ruby to silence Oswald.

The question that remains to be resolved is who (if any) were the co-conspirators. In a way, we are not too far apart on the issue whether LBJ was a co-conspurator. You argue he was a conspirator. I believe (suspect) he was given foreknowledge which might very well make him an accessory before the fact.

And by the way, John, congratulations on your Dallas presentation. I am not sure if every one of your conclusions is correct but it was certainly a good read!

Edited November 23, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Larry Hancock]

Mark, based on what John Williams did present which included an Andrews tower log for that day

and testimony from one autopsy participant....LeMay did indeed arrive (relatively late)

for the autopsy and later chose not to acknowledge that fact in his own comments.

Why LeMay would go there rather than stay in a command and control position given the

posibility of a Soviet attack (contingency plans clearly spelled out that the elimination

of American leaders and breaking the chain of command was anticipated as part of

any Soviet strike) is unclear. However the same question can be asked of the Joint Chiefs

who also seem not to have left a meeting in progress when they heard of the death and

moved into active command of their services.

Three are a number of other elements (missing AF1 channel traffic, the rewrite of the

Emergency Airborne Command Center aircraft log of the day) that suggest we may

not see the sort of national security response that did/should have occured - sort of like

sweeing away the original conspiracy charges prepared in Dallas.

But as John says, this area is definitely a work in progress... Larry

John,

First rate presentation. I wonder if Teddy will ever reveal what Stockdale really told him and Bobby, instead of merely observing that he was depressed.

One presentation I was very interested in, after reading the schedule you posted, was John Williams, "The conspicuously disowned presence of General Curtis LeMay at Bethesda". How did that go down?

On Mafia involvement, I've always believed that while Marcello and Trafficante are often mentioned as suspects, the person who recieves little focus is Meyer Lansky. While Marcello, Trafficante, Giancana and others were rulers of their fiefdoms, the person who had more influence at a national and international level was Meyer. Still only 61 at the time of the assassination, if the underworld was involved I find it hard to believe Meyer Lansky wasn't a major player. Hence I agree that the term often used (i.e. the mafia) is misleading. I think "underworld influences" is more accurate.

[William Kelly]

Mark, based on what John Williams did present which included an Andrews tower log for that day

and testimony from one autopsy participant....LeMay did indeed arrive (relatively late)

for the autopsy and later chose not to acknowledge that fact in his own comments.

Why LeMay would go there rather than stay in a command and control position given the

posibility of a Soviet attack (contingency plans clearly spelled out that the elimination

of American leaders and breaking the chain of command was anticipated as part of

any Soviet strike) is unclear. However the same question can be asked of the Joint Chiefs

who also seem not to have left a meeting in progress when they heard of the death and

moved into active command of their services.

Three are a number of other elements (missing AF1 channel traffic, the rewrite of the

Emergency Airborne Command Center aircraft log of the day) that suggest we may

not see the sort of national security response that did/should have occured - sort of like

sweeing away the original conspiracy charges prepared in Dallas.

But as John says, this area is definitely a work in progress... Larry

Hi Larry,

I hope all well in Dallas. I'd like to get an abstract or transcript of John William's talk as well.

I surmise that the autopsy participant who identifies LeMay is technician Paul O'Conner, who tells the story of one of the doctors ordering someone to tell whoever's smoking a cigar to put it out or leave the room, but when told its LeMay, recinds the order.

As for the Andrews Tower Log - the ARRB obtained a 9 page, hard bound ledger log from Andrews, which was said to have been retreived from the trash dumpster by one Chuck Holmes, who saw a tv show about the ARRB and their quest for JFK assassination records. When I was at the NARA I requested the ledger, photocopied the 9 pages, and retyped the handwritten notations as best I could.

This log, which appears NOT to be an official Andrews Tower Log because it makes no mention of all the other air traffic that day, and also includes a few pages of log notations for when they flew the body of RFK to Andrews from California. It is very peculiar that this log only has references to those two incidences, years apart, and there was an attempt to dispose of it, an obvious historical record. I tried to locate Chuck Holmes, who reportedly still works at Anrews, to learn more, but haven't hooked up with him yet. I wanted to give him a medal for saving such an artifact.

The references to LeMay are the fact that at the time of the assassination he was Canada, possibly in the air between Toronto and Wairton, from where he departs for Andrews 1625 - (4:25pm).

Perhaps GPH or someone who knows air traffic terminology can translate some of the abrivations.

BK

[ANDREWS LOG AS TRANSCRIBED BY BILL KELLY]

Andrews Log

RIF: 161-10002-10000

USAF

SPECIAL ANDREWS AFB DUTY OPERATIONS LOG FROM NOV 22-25, 1963 AND JUNE 5-6,

9 pages.

SUBJECTS: JFK ASSASSINATION; RFK ASSASSINATION; AIR FORCE ONE; GENERAL LEMAY.

DOCUMENT TYPE: LOG BOOK, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

UNCLASSIFIED

OPEN IN FULL

COMMENTS: Special Log of Events found by Air Force civilian employee, Mr. Chuck Holmes, and transferred to ARRB by USAF. Cover stamped 1254 ATW Command Post.

COVER REMARKS:

Special Unclassified

J.F.K. Assassination - 22 Nov. 63 & RFK Assassinations 5 June 68.

1254th ATW Command Post

Return to Chuck Holmes.

RECORD

MAINTAIN IN LOCAL TIME

7530-222-3523 Federal Supply Service ICPO

UNCLASSIFIED

ALL IN LOCAL TIME

Page 1

LOCAL Death of J.F.K.

Time 22 Nov 63 (FR.)

1400 [2 pm-bk] Col Hornbuckle Heard News Report on the President being shot at Dallas.

Put Wing on Alert & Told Maint To Put Act T intoo. (C P Maintaining acft status)

Notified 98 & 99 To Alert Crews (Received Aircraft Availability Status)

Notified Air Police To Alert Flight Guards.

Notified Air Team.

D2Col Schwikert Concurs in Above Actions

1405 [2:03pm] Notified To Dispatch: 0912488 Plu Boston, Drop Dallas

1420 [2:20] 092488 & 2493 CANX. 4197 Set-up

To Dept To Plu Gen Lemay at Toronto, Canada. Trip #1602

1446 [2:46] =094197 Dept for Canada. ETA 1546

Received word from 86972 - Returning To HIK, Min 6nd Time, Direct Dallas.

092489 inbound To Whitemn with ulsec McMillian Advised to Standby there for further instructions.

1450 Set up MSN #1617 12490 To Take Sen Kennedy To Otis.

Crossed out ione line. Undecipherable

Change Gen Lemays Plu from Torento To Wawirton Canada 44.45N 0981.06W

END OF PAGE ONE

Page 2

Local

Time

1500 [3pm] (C.F.) - WashARTC called with Flight Plan on AF1. ETD Dallas 22

1515 Hi. ALT to ADW, 2 + 10 ENROUTE

1505 [3:05] Contacted 24197 (UHF) to change Destination to Wairton.

1510 [3:10] Patch w/86972 EST ADW 23/0100

1515 [3:15] Change 12490 Destination Otis to Barnstable.

1525 [3:25] 912492 & 12493 Patrick to Ramey (Cong Group)Returning To ADW ETAs 1650 & 1700

1530 [3:30] 0912490 (Sen Kennedy Departed For Barnstable. Crew ABD ACFT

when He arrived Sgt Pshney AFLP stated that the S.S. will Take Care of Body At ADW

1535 [3:35] =09=0912499 u/sec MsMillian Returning ADW

1540 [3:40]=09=0924200 OUT of Commission For TOC=D5s To FAR into PE.

Missions 1572/27 & 1573/01 CANX.

1545 [3:45] 96000 Returning ADW, Mr Johnson ABD ETA 1725 (Returning as AF-1) Body & Mrs. Kennedy ABD

1547 [3:47] =09=09AF 1 Dept DAL, ETA ADW 1805

1600 [4:00pm] =09Quiet Hour 1745 To 1830.

1609 [4:09] =096972 Dept AIK ETA 00240

END OF PAGE 2

Page 3

Local

Time=20

1625 [4:25pm] 24197 Gen Lemay Dept Wairton 1604 ETA DCA 1715, Driver & Aide at DCA ETA charged 1710, Secy Zuckert Will Meet Lemay at ADW. (notified AC f t )

1650 [4:50] =09=09Call From 26000, need steps FWD Door, FWD Gally Door & Lift Truck AfT Pax Door, Body in Rear.

1700 [5:00pm] =09Gen Lemay Will land DCA NOT ADW.

1700 Alert Posture From Burleson: Immediate Alert till 1830 HR Alert till 1830 - 200 HR Alert 2000 - Till Advised Left Jetstar on 1 HQ

96000 Requested Ramps & Press Fence

1710 [5:10] =09=09Call From Duty Off @ Torrejon C.P. Requesting info on Sam

P/U of =09=09=09=09=09V.P. of Spain - None Sked By 1254th.

1712 [5:12] =09=094192 Gen Lemay ARR DCA.

1715 [5:15] =0912491 w/Cong Price at Burbank Alerted For Possible P/U ofLawford Family to Return ADW.

1730 [5:30] 096972 ETB A ADW 0030 . 32 PAX.Notified Mr Jackson – Home 9929-1298 For Transport Etc.

1735 12491 Possible Plu of Lawford Family CANX. Notified Alc @ Burbank. Maj Chappelle Advised thaat He is Returning ADW via FFUTT with Cong Cohelan.

END OF PAGE 3

Page 4.

Local

Time

1740 [5:40 pm] AF1 Reg Four A.P. Cars, 2 FWD & 2 ft of AcFt on Ramp Confirmed.

1800 [6:00pm] AF1 ARR ADW, 12489 Slowing Down To ARR After ADW Opens, 42816 Still Holding

1830 [6:30]=09=0986970 ARR ADW

1841 [6:41] =0942816 ARR ADW

1852 [6:52] =09=0912489 ARR ADW

2108 [9:08pm]=0912490 ARR ADW

2145 [9:45] From Col Burleson - AT 39 #493 will Dept Love Field arond 2345 ETA ADW 0230 W/ A CAPT & 2 PRESS. Arrange a car To Take Them To The White House immed - Confirmed w/TFC.

2324 09T39 ETA ADW 0136 - given To TFC.

0923 NOV 63 (Saturday)

0037L [12:37am] =0986972 ARRIVED ADW with Scc Rusk, etc.

0950 [9:50am]=09Per Sgt Geiser - Gen Eisenhower to arrive at DCA at 1030L on a CBS Gulfstream.

Crossed out Line

1400 [10:00am] Per LCOL Burleson - Set up #1618 C131 42815 Drop Father Cavanaugh Barnstable. 09TRAF - RS 091299 - Johnson - Dec_____CAMRON – BECK SSC – RBC T/OPS - Hornbuckle W.H. - Po_le

END OF PAGE 4

Page 5

23 NOV 63

Local

Time

1200 [Noon] =09Per LCol Burleson SET UP MSN 1619

=09=09=09VC140 12490 PU VICE PRES SPAIN

=09=09=09MENOS GRANDES RTN TO ADW

Johnson – Deceasre

TFRAF - HP

CAMERON - BECK

SSC - RBC

DET 3 – LARSON’09T/OPS - HORNBUCKLE

W.H. -

1248 [12:48pm] =09SGT LARSON CONFIRMED GATE #21 (1AB Terminal) will be available for arrived MSN 1619.

1700 [7:00pm]=09MSN 1619 DELAYED ARRIVAl at Idlewild Due to Weather at Destination 2490 Landed. IDL 1645L Departure 10L 1756 L RTA ADW 1834 2490 Blocked in 1842

Notified Col Burleson

Col Hornbuckle

MX Beck

DET 3 Larson

Spanish Embassy

1710 [7:10] Sgt. Griser - Cx Mission # 1585

Baggage P/U at Patrick Henry

Wg Ops Col Hornbuckle

Maj. Hefner

MX Harding

T/C Wade

1825 [8:25] =09=09Per Sgt Griser Set up Mission #1621 VC - 140

P/U Prince Bernhard at IDL Drop ADW

Set up Mission #1620 C-131 42815

Drop Gen Fol__sc_ IDL wgOps. Col Hornbuckle

99th Maj Hefn

Mx. Beck

TFC Wade

Det. 3 - Sgt Larson

END OF PAGE 5

Beginning of Page 6

Local

Time

0900 [9:00am]=09Per Col Burleson - Mission # 1604 A/C 80608 will divert To Nellis AFB To P/U Mr Conlon after DV Drop at Hamilton. - 98th

Maj. Tul_ Wg Ops. -

2300 Per Col Burleson - Mission #1604 will also wait at Hamilton no longer than 24/1800- for P/U of Congressman Shelly and Return ADW via Nellis.

24 NOV 63 (Sunday)

1330L [1:30pm] ACFT 80608 MSN # 1604 DIV To TRAVIS Due Hamilton WX will pu MR/CONLON At Nellis Per Col Tueful, Mr Conlon ARR Commercial

1436 [2:36pm] Per Col. Burleson - Set up Mission # 1622 VC-140 ADW To

IDL =09=09=09=09=09drop Prince Philip - To connect with BOAC Flight #500 For

London Det 3 - Larson

MX. - Beck=

99th - Bartels

SSC - Henry

TFC - L D

WH - Chance

1645 [4:45] 80610 Mission # 1367 Enroute From Naples To Lajes diverted To Lisbon Due to shorted plugs on Rt x Lt side of #2 cyl #4 Eng. Possible Cyl. or Eng change - will advise after inspection

ETA Lisbond 24/17102 Per Col Burleson set up Mission # 1623

VC - 09137 86902 To Lisbon To P/U Gen. Hamlet on 80610 ETA AD

W=20

0924/1800L

998th Mangold

Wg. Ops.

Col. Hornbuckle

SSC – Green

MX Harding

TFC Lynn

END PAGE SIX

Begin Page 7

Local

Time

1827 [8:27pm] Per Col Burleson CX. Mission #1623

986972- Wg.Ops Col Hornbuckle

998. - Mangold

MX. Harding

TFC Lynn

SSC MAY

2000 [10:00pm]Per Col Burleson - Set up Mission # 1624 VC-140 Pick up President Truman at DCA and drop at Kansas City.

Wg Ops Col Hornebuckle

MX. Harding

TFC Wade

SSC Grlla

99th Parker

1750 [7:50pm] 24197 called UHF and advised DV request 4197 make additionaltrip to Boston after Drop at Otis - Request approved - Sgt.Geiser

1845 [8:45] Chg OF ACFT ON MSN 1622 INST PANEL LIGHTS OUT D4ACFT 92490 Chg To 2493 approved - Col Hornbuckle

25 NOV 63 (Monday)

0930 [9:30am] Per Col HornBuckle Set Up MSN #1433 C140 To Take MRS Rose Kennedy To Cape Cod ETD 25/1500L

WG - Cesarid

MX - CN

SSC-Parish

99 - Bartels

TFC-JP

END

END OF PAGE 7

Page 8 Re: DEATH OF R.F.K. 05 JUNE 68=20

xxxyyyyzzz

[Ron Ecker]

FWIW from page 430 of Iron Eagle: The Turbulent Life of General Curtis LeMay, by Thomas M. Coffey:

"Everybody old enough to remember can tell you where he was when he heard the news (of the assassination). Curt LeMay recalls that he was in Michigan on vacation, but hurried back to Washington in time for the funeral."

[Larry Hancock]

Bill, in reference to the special log sheet I read the following:

1625 [4:25pm] 24197 Gen Lemay Dept Wairton 1604 ETA DCA 1715, Driver & Aide at DCA ETA charged 1710, Secy Zuckert Will Meet Lemay at ADW. (notified AC f t )

1650 [4:50] =09=09Call From 26000, need steps FWD Door, FWD Gally Door & Lift Truck AfT Pax Door, Body in Rear.

1700 [5:00pm] =09Gen Lemay Will land DCA NOT ADW.

.....as Lemay arriving at National (DCA; now Ronald Regan) at 17:00 that evening; instead

of his original destination which was Andrews (ADW). Surely this is a bit different than his

staying in Michigan that day and arriving in Washington only for the funeral. Indeed Lemay

staying on vacation during on national emergency would have seemed a bit strange on the face of things anyway.

Whairton is up in the Michigan/Ontario regions, that's a fit. Looks like that is where he was but

that his official story covers up the fact that he made a rush trip down to DC that evening.

And yes, John spoke of Paul O'Conner, referring to his own interviews with him and William Law's

and providing more detail than I had heard previously.

-- Larry

Mark, based on what John Williams did present which included an Andrews tower log for that day

and testimony from one autopsy participant....LeMay did indeed arrive (relatively late)

for the autopsy and later chose not to acknowledge that fact in his own comments.

Why LeMay would go there rather than stay in a command and control position given the

posibility of a Soviet attack (contingency plans clearly spelled out that the elimination

of American leaders and breaking the chain of command was anticipated as part of

any Soviet strike) is unclear. However the same question can be asked of the Joint Chiefs

who also seem not to have left a meeting in progress when they heard of the death and

moved into active command of their services.

Three are a number of other elements (missing AF1 channel traffic, the rewrite of the

Emergency Airborne Command Center aircraft log of the day) that suggest we may

not see the sort of national security response that did/should have occured - sort of like

sweeing away the original conspiracy charges prepared in Dallas.

But as John says, this area is definitely a work in progress... Larry

Hi Larry,

I hope all well in Dallas. I'd like to get an abstract or transcript of John William's talk as well.

I surmise that the autopsy participant who identifies LeMay is technician Paul O'Conner, who tells the story of one of the doctors ordering someone to tell whoever's smoking a cigar to put it out or leave the room, but when told its LeMay, recinds the order.

As for the Andrews Tower Log - the ARRB obtained a 9 page, hard bound ledger log from Andrews, which was said to have been retreived from the trash dumpster by one Chuck Holmes, who saw a tv show about the ARRB and their quest for JFK assassination records. When I was at the NARA I requested the ledger, photocopied the 9 pages, and retyped the handwritten notations as best I could.

This log, which appears NOT to be an official Andrews Tower Log because it makes no mention of all the other air traffic that day, and also includes a few pages of log notations for when they flew the body of RFK to Andrews from California. It is very peculiar that this log only has references to those two incidences, years apart, and there was an attempt to dispose of it, an obvious historical record. I tried to locate Chuck Holmes, who reportedly still works at Anrews, to learn more, but haven't hooked up with him yet. I wanted to give him a medal for saving such an artifact.

The references to LeMay are the fact that at the time of the assassination he was Canada, possibly in the air between Toronto and Wairton, from where he departs for Andrews 1625 - (4:25pm).

Perhaps GPH or someone who knows air traffic terminology can translate some of the abrivations.

BK

[ANDREWS LOG AS TRANSCRIBED BY BILL KELLY]

Andrews Log

RIF: 161-10002-10000

USAF

SPECIAL ANDREWS AFB DUTY OPERATIONS LOG FROM NOV 22-25, 1963 AND JUNE 5-6,

9 pages.

SUBJECTS: JFK ASSASSINATION; RFK ASSASSINATION; AIR FORCE ONE; GENERAL LEMAY.

DOCUMENT TYPE: LOG BOOK, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

UNCLASSIFIED

OPEN IN FULL

COMMENTS: Special Log of Events found by Air Force civilian employee, Mr. Chuck Holmes, and transferred to ARRB by USAF. Cover stamped 1254 ATW Command Post.

COVER REMARKS:

Special Unclassified

J.F.K. Assassination - 22 Nov. 63 & RFK Assassinations 5 June 68.

1254th ATW Command Post

Return to Chuck Holmes.

RECORD

MAINTAIN IN LOCAL TIME

7530-222-3523 Federal Supply Service ICPO

UNCLASSIFIED

ALL IN LOCAL TIME

Page 1

LOCAL Death of J.F.K.

Time 22 Nov 63 (FR.)

1400 [2 pm-bk] Col Hornbuckle Heard News Report on the President being shot at Dallas.

Put Wing on Alert & Told Maint To Put Act T intoo. (C P Maintaining acft status)

Notified 98 & 99 To Alert Crews (Received Aircraft Availability Status)

Notified Air Police To Alert Flight Guards.

Notified Air Team.

D2Col Schwikert Concurs in Above Actions

1405 [2:03pm] Notified To Dispatch: 0912488 Plu Boston, Drop Dallas

1420 [2:20] 092488 & 2493 CANX. 4197 Set-up

To Dept To Plu Gen Lemay at Toronto, Canada. Trip #1602

1446 [2:46] =094197 Dept for Canada. ETA 1546

Received word from 86972 - Returning To HIK, Min 6nd Time, Direct Dallas.

092489 inbound To Whitemn with ulsec McMillian Advised to Standby there for further instructions.

1450 Set up MSN #1617 12490 To Take Sen Kennedy To Otis.

Crossed out ione line. Undecipherable

Change Gen Lemays Plu from Torento To Wawirton Canada 44.45N 0981.06W

END OF PAGE ONE

Page 2

Local

Time

1500 [3pm] (C.F.) - WashARTC called with Flight Plan on AF1. ETD Dallas 22

1515 Hi. ALT to ADW, 2 + 10 ENROUTE

1505 [3:05] Contacted 24197 (UHF) to change Destination to Wairton.

1510 [3:10] Patch w/86972 EST ADW 23/0100

1515 [3:15] Change 12490 Destination Otis to Barnstable.

1525 [3:25] 912492 & 12493 Patrick to Ramey (Cong Group)Returning To ADW ETAs 1650 & 1700

1530 [3:30] 0912490 (Sen Kennedy Departed For Barnstable. Crew ABD ACFT

when He arrived Sgt Pshney AFLP stated that the S.S. will Take Care of Body At ADW

1535 [3:35] =09=0912499 u/sec MsMillian Returning ADW

1540 [3:40]=09=0924200 OUT of Commission For TOC=D5s To FAR into PE.

Missions 1572/27 & 1573/01 CANX.

1545 [3:45] 96000 Returning ADW, Mr Johnson ABD ETA 1725 (Returning as AF-1) Body & Mrs. Kennedy ABD

1547 [3:47] =09=09AF 1 Dept DAL, ETA ADW 1805

1600 [4:00pm] =09Quiet Hour 1745 To 1830.

1609 [4:09] =096972 Dept AIK ETA 00240

END OF PAGE 2

Page 3

Local

Time=20

1625 [4:25pm] 24197 Gen Lemay Dept Wairton 1604 ETA DCA 1715, Driver & Aide at DCA ETA charged 1710, Secy Zuckert Will Meet Lemay at ADW. (notified AC f t )

1650 [4:50] =09=09Call From 26000, need steps FWD Door, FWD Gally Door & Lift Truck AfT Pax Door, Body in Rear.

1700 [5:00pm] =09Gen Lemay Will land DCA NOT ADW.

1700 Alert Posture From Burleson: Immediate Alert till 1830 HR Alert till 1830 - 200 HR Alert 2000 - Till Advised Left Jetstar on 1 HQ

96000 Requested Ramps & Press Fence

1710 [5:10] =09=09Call From Duty Off @ Torrejon C.P. Requesting info on Sam

P/U of =09=09=09=09=09V.P. of Spain - None Sked By 1254th.

1712 [5:12] =09=094192 Gen Lemay ARR DCA.

1715 [5:15] =0912491 w/Cong Price at Burbank Alerted For Possible P/U ofLawford Family to Return ADW.

1730 [5:30] 096972 ETB A ADW 0030 . 32 PAX.Notified Mr Jackson – Home 9929-1298 For Transport Etc.

1735 12491 Possible Plu of Lawford Family CANX. Notified Alc @ Burbank. Maj Chappelle Advised thaat He is Returning ADW via FFUTT with Cong Cohelan.

END OF PAGE 3

Page 4.

Local

Time

1740 [5:40 pm] AF1 Reg Four A.P. Cars, 2 FWD & 2 ft of AcFt on Ramp Confirmed.

1800 [6:00pm] AF1 ARR ADW, 12489 Slowing Down To ARR After ADW Opens, 42816 Still Holding

1830 [6:30]=09=0986970 ARR ADW

1841 [6:41] =0942816 ARR ADW

1852 [6:52] =09=0912489 ARR ADW

2108 [9:08pm]=0912490 ARR ADW

2145 [9:45] From Col Burleson - AT 39 #493 will Dept Love Field arond 2345 ETA ADW 0230 W/ A CAPT & 2 PRESS. Arrange a car To Take Them To The White House immed - Confirmed w/TFC.

2324 09T39 ETA ADW 0136 - given To TFC.

0923 NOV 63 (Saturday)

0037L [12:37am] =0986972 ARRIVED ADW with Scc Rusk, etc.

0950 [9:50am]=09Per Sgt Geiser - Gen Eisenhower to arrive at DCA at 1030L on a CBS Gulfstream.

Crossed out Line

1400 [10:00am] Per LCOL Burleson - Set up #1618 C131 42815 Drop Father Cavanaugh Barnstable. 09TRAF - RS 091299 - Johnson - Dec_____CAMRON – BECK SSC – RBC T/OPS - Hornbuckle W.H. - Po_le

END OF PAGE 4

Page 5

23 NOV 63

Local

Time

1200 [Noon] =09Per LCol Burleson SET UP MSN 1619

=09=09=09VC140 12490 PU VICE PRES SPAIN

=09=09=09MENOS GRANDES RTN TO ADW

Johnson – Deceasre

TFRAF - HP

CAMERON - BECK

SSC - RBC

DET 3 – LARSON’09T/OPS - HORNBUCKLE

W.H. -

1248 [12:48pm] =09SGT LARSON CONFIRMED GATE #21 (1AB Terminal) will be available for arrived MSN 1619.

1700 [7:00pm]=09MSN 1619 DELAYED ARRIVAl at Idlewild Due to Weather at Destination 2490 Landed. IDL 1645L Departure 10L 1756 L RTA ADW 1834 2490 Blocked in 1842

Notified Col Burleson

Col Hornbuckle

MX Beck

DET 3 Larson

Spanish Embassy

1710 [7:10] Sgt. Griser - Cx Mission # 1585

Baggage P/U at Patrick Henry

Wg Ops Col Hornbuckle

Maj. Hefner

MX Harding

T/C Wade

1825 [8:25] =09=09Per Sgt Griser Set up Mission #1621 VC - 140

P/U Prince Bernhard at IDL Drop ADW

Set up Mission #1620 C-131 42815

Drop Gen Fol__sc_ IDL wgOps. Col Hornbuckle

99th Maj Hefn

Mx. Beck

TFC Wade

Det. 3 - Sgt Larson

END OF PAGE 5

Beginning of Page 6

Local

Time

0900 [9:00am]=09Per Col Burleson - Mission # 1604 A/C 80608 will divert To Nellis AFB To P/U Mr Conlon after DV Drop at Hamilton. - 98th

Maj. Tul_ Wg Ops. -

2300 Per Col Burleson - Mission #1604 will also wait at Hamilton no longer than 24/1800- for P/U of Congressman Shelly and Return ADW via Nellis.

24 NOV 63 (Sunday)

1330L [1:30pm] ACFT 80608 MSN # 1604 DIV To TRAVIS Due Hamilton WX will pu MR/CONLON At Nellis Per Col Tueful, Mr Conlon ARR Commercial

1436 [2:36pm] Per Col. Burleson - Set up Mission # 1622 VC-140 ADW To

IDL =09=09=09=09=09drop Prince Philip - To connect with BOAC Flight #500 For

London Det 3 - Larson

MX. - Beck=

99th - Bartels

SSC - Henry

TFC - L D

WH - Chance

1645 [4:45] 80610 Mission # 1367 Enroute From Naples To Lajes diverted To Lisbon Due to shorted plugs on Rt x Lt side of #2 cyl #4 Eng. Possible Cyl. or Eng change - will advise after inspection

ETA Lisbond 24/17102 Per Col Burleson set up Mission # 1623

VC - 09137 86902 To Lisbon To P/U Gen. Hamlet on 80610 ETA AD

W=20

0924/1800L

998th Mangold

Wg. Ops.

Col. Hornbuckle

SSC – Green

MX Harding

TFC Lynn

END PAGE SIX

Begin Page 7

Local

Time

1827 [8:27pm] Per Col Burleson CX. Mission #1623

986972- Wg.Ops Col Hornbuckle

998. - Mangold

MX. Harding

TFC Lynn

SSC MAY

2000 [10:00pm]Per Col Burleson - Set up Mission # 1624 VC-140 Pick up President Truman at DCA and drop at Kansas City.

Wg Ops Col Hornebuckle

MX. Harding

TFC Wade

SSC Grlla

99th Parker

1750 [7:50pm] 24197 called UHF and advised DV request 4197 make additionaltrip to Boston after Drop at Otis - Request approved - Sgt.Geiser

1845 [8:45] Chg OF ACFT ON MSN 1622 INST PANEL LIGHTS OUT D4ACFT 92490 Chg To 2493 approved - Col Hornbuckle

25 NOV 63 (Monday)

0930 [9:30am] Per Col HornBuckle Set Up MSN #1433 C140 To Take MRS Rose Kennedy To Cape Cod ETD 25/1500L

WG - Cesarid

MX - CN

SSC-Parish

99 - Bartels

TFC-JP

END

END OF PAGE 7

Page 8 Re: DEATH OF R.F.K. 05 JUNE 68=20

xxxyyyyzzz

[William Kelly]

FWIW from page 430 of Iron Eagle: The Turbulent Life of General Curtis LeMay, by Thomas M. Coffey:

"Everybody old enough to remember can tell you where he was when he heard the news (of the assassination). Curt LeMay recalls that he was in Michigan on vacation, but hurried back to Washington in time for the funeral."

Thanks for that tid bit Ron,

and as Larry notes, it does jive with the Andrews Log, as far as LeMay's itiniery that day.

I still don't understand why we don't have photos of the autopsy room and a list of people who were there. I've been to Bathesda, and it is a very high security navy hospital, that you have to sign in and to come and go, so there must be a record somewhere.

And Larry, arel there or will there be abastracts, videos, tapes or transcripts of the LANCER presentations available?

Many Thanks,

Bill Kelly

[Larry Hancock]

Bill, my understanding is that this year Debra hopes to make copies of the conference

presentations available on the WEB as video file downloads.

As to the list of people at the autopsy, William Law did explore that at some length in his

book interviewing the FBI folks and others there....they did make a list and it is in

evidence, however they made it fairly early in the process and only did it once

so people that came and went may have been missed....and it apparently was done

before Lemay arrived, he came in by himself later in the autopsy and some folks

had already left by the time he arrived.

-- Larry

FWIW from page 430 of Iron Eagle: The Turbulent Life of General Curtis LeMay, by Thomas M. Coffey:

"Everybody old enough to remember can tell you where he was when he heard the news (of the assassination). Curt LeMay recalls that he was in Michigan on vacation, but hurried back to Washington in time for the funeral."

Thanks for that tid bit Ron,

and as Larry notes, it does jive with the Andrews Log, as far as LeMay's itiniery that day.

I still don't understand why we don't have photos of the autopsy room and a list of people who were there. I've been to Bathesda, and it is a very high security navy hospital, that you have to sign in and to come and go, so there must be a record somewhere.

And Larry, arel there or will there be abastracts, videos, tapes or transcripts of the LANCER presentations available?

Many Thanks,

Bill Kelly

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

I have not yet read the book, John. Nor, I imagine, have you. From its reviews I know it does not posit Cuban participation.

Where John has, I think, made progress is in now concluding that there was significant Mafia involvement (a point he had contested with me last winter) and that there were serious efforts afoot for a coup in Cuba (apparently under the code name "AMBLOOD", a rather chilling code name to be sure).

I have read nearly 300 pages so far. I also listened to his presentation and had several conversations with him in Dallas.

I agree I have changed my mind about "Mafia" involvement. All good historians must be willing to change their mind as new evidence becomes available. One of the problems is that historians are often locked into a particular ideology. Hopefully, I am not like that.

One of the reasons I had doubts about the Mafia role concerns its history. It has always been reluctant to "kill" politicians because it feared that this could be the trigger for its destruction (see the Dutch Schulz case). However, Larry Hancock can take credit for changing my mind on this. As he pointed out, it is misleading to talk about the "Mafia" in relation to the assassination. What you had was three mobsters working as individuals. They were only part of a conspiracy that involved anti-Castro Cubans and senior figures in the CIA. I also believe that LBJ's people were also part of this conspiracy. If that is the case, it explains why they knew that the assassination would not trigger its destruction.

Though I don't insist that others share my point of view, I'd just like to posit that distinguishing between CIA and the Mob as active participants is an artificial distinction. To wit:

When the Agency decided to off Castro, it sought Mob proxies to do the dirty work, thereby providing CIA with plausible deniability in the event of disclosure or capture of the participants. In essence, while both parties may have had their own motives for colluding, the authorship for the deed resided with Langley, while the Mob proxies were merely pawns used to achieve that end. Were it demonstrated that Mob personnel acted as mechanics in Dealey Plaza, how does that definitively verify that authorship for the deed did NOT nevertheless reside with CIA?

Vis a vis Blakey: he can say whatever he wishes to today to excuse the shoddiness of his "work." The fact of the matter is that the CIA-Mob nexus had already been disclosed by several Congressional committees prior to his becoming HSCA honcho. Consequently, he knew - or should have known - precisely how the hierarchy of that CIA-Mob arrangement worked; which party gave the orders and which party followed them. Any schoolaged child could have discerned who was the coach and who was the waterboy in that relationship, yet Blakey chose to ignore the obvious at the time, and now wishes to be given a "free pass" for his slackitude by claiming incredulity that the coach would lie to him about what the waterboy might have done. He presided over a fraud then, and now offers fraudulent excuses for having done so.

To compound his perfidy, Blakey insisted that all HSCA staff sign non-disclosure agreements to ensure that none of them would subsequently disclose anything they may have learned while active on the HSCA staff. Immediately after the report's release, he co-authored with Dick Billings the horrifically misleading book in which the Mob was ID'ed as the Dealey Plaza culprit. By swearing all others but himself to secrecy, Blakey could drop this deceptive fraud into the public domain, with no fear of being contradicted by the only persons who knew better: the HSCA investigators who worked "for" him. Ask any of them whether they were impressed with his performance.

Sprague insisted on an open-ended investigation with unlimited resources, because he knew it was the only way the job could be properly accomplished. Blakey, on the other hand, ran interference for CIA against his own staff - including his own law students Lopez and Hardaway, whom he had recruited, presumably assuming they'd not do a thorough job [sURPRISE!!!] - and just ran out the clock on the HSCA's shelf-life. Had the acoustics testing not been performed on the dictabelt, Blakey doubtless would have found no evidence of conspiracy whatsoever. But then, it's hard to find what you're not looking for.

[Ron Ecker]

Curtis LeMay's wife was a native of Michigan. When I read that he was on vacation in Michigan on 11/22/63, I assumed it probably meant that LeMay was visiting with the in-laws. I can understand why anyone would prefer to go to an autopsy instead. But doesn't it seem rather odd, indeed unprofessional, for the general to be on vacation anyway when the JCS was hosting military brass from West Germany in an all-day meeting at the Pentagon, a meeting so important that it could not be interrupted for more than a few minutes by something like a presidential assassination?

[John Simkin]

Curtis LeMay's wife was a native of Michigan. When I read that he was on vacation in Michigan on 11/22/63, I assumed it probably meant that LeMay was visiting with the in-laws. I can understand why anyone would prefer to go to an autopsy instead. But doesn't it seem rather odd, indeed unprofessional, for the general to be on vacation anyway when the JCS was hosting military brass from West Germany in an all-day meeting at the Pentagon, a meeting so important that it could not be interrupted for more than a few minutes by something like a presidential assassination?

In several interviews given by Robert Kennedy for the Oral History Project, he pointed out that JFK decided to marginalize Curtis LeMay after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Apparently, he was not very happy with LeMay's desire to nuke Cuba and the Soviet Union. Larry Hancock made an interesting point during John Williams' presentation (maybe he could do it here as well). Larry suggested that the conspirators would have been worried about how LeMay might have reacted to JFK's assassination and therefore took the necessary precautions.

[Ron Ecker]

In several interviews given by Robert Kennedy for the Oral History Project, he pointed out that JFK decided to marginalize Curtis LeMay after the Cuban Missile Crisis.

That’s understandable, considering this exchange in the transcript of an 10/19/02 meeting on the Cuban missile crisis:

General LeMay: If we don't do anything to Cuba, then they're going to push on Berlin, and push real hard because they've got us on the run. . . . I just don't see any other solution except direct military action right now. . . . A blockade, and political talk, would be considered by a lot of our friends and neutrals as being a pretty weak response to this. And I'm sure a lot of our own citizens would feel that way, too. You're in a pretty bad fix, Mr. President.

The President: What did you say?

General LeMay: You're in a pretty bad fix.

When the meeting ends, LeMay and Marine General David Shoup linger and have this exchange:

General Shoup: You pulled the rug right out from under him. Goddamn.

General LeMay: Jesus Christ. What the hell do you mean?

General Shoup: Somebody's got to keep them from doing the goddamn thing piecemeal. That's our problem. . . . Do the son of a bitch, and do it right. . . .

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/baytape.htm