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Pure Speculation


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again and again there seem to be loose connections to the right in Norway. Nothing concrete, just circumstantial stuff. before berlin , norway was the last to fall from the occupied nazi countries. Olav apparently knew walker, he and his wife spent the war in washinton. There are large pockets of norwegians in texas, some near dallas. probably nothing there. just a thought.

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"Thirty members of the Dallas Bonehead Club flew to several Mexican cities in two planes last week as guests of D. Harold Byrd*. Standing in the back row, left to right, are Myron Everts, D. Harold Byrd and Dr. Gordon Maddox. Standing, front row, left to right, are M. M. Gardner, Neal Lyons, G. W. Wagner, E. J. Koenig, Dr. C. V. White, J. Howard Payne, Capt. C. W. B. Long and L. M. Napier. Seated in the front is H. L. (Duke) DuLany."

- February 1, 1948, Dallas Daily Times Herald

*owner of TSBD. There seems to have been a few boneheads in dallas, wonder who the other members were.

Edited by John Dolva
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I have been regarding this forum as essentially a murder investigation that unfortunately the powers to be are neglecting, thus forcing private citizens to carry it out. not being a copper nor a deep student of procedure I can only guess at the nature of such investigations. One important part I surmise is wild theorizing, hunches, chasing down blind leads etc.. Undoubtedly egos are bruised in the process. With egos sometimes clouding judice, big chest thumping head butting sessions occur. This to my mind are par for the course. I often say that it is not the disagreements, arguments that are the measure of a relationship but the ability to go past them and get back on track. Should one fail to do so and force someone into a corner with no out, everyone loses. Particularly, in this case, to my mind, the memory of a great Man, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. As a christian to fellow christians we often say WWJD (what would Jesus do), perhaps here one can say WWJFKD?

hmm ... having written that , I'm glad I did that bit of preaching in 'pure speculation' where 'anything goes'. well, almost anything. I've re-read the intro to forum rules, a good read. oh well that'll do for now, :o, having got that off my chest I feel a bit like a sanctimonious git. no matter, I'll tape my finger togethrwth ssome dct t

Edited by John Dolva
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Crime and Punishment

To what extent is the death penalty in Texas stopping people from divulging any involvement. Texas doesn't close it's books on murder cases. Does this mean that anyone connected could be fried as accessory after the fact, if not actual assassin? Perhaps* another way that the conspirators remain hidden?

edit:: one reasonI don't support the death penalty is that I think in this case it deters the guilty from atoning. I wonder how much this is a factor in this case and other crimes in assuring that they remain unsolved? A different kind of coersion?

Edited by John Dolva
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One would think the possibility of capital punishment would defer a REAL assassin from stepping forward. Certainly most Americans would support the death penalty for anyone involved in Kennedy's murder.

However, if a conspirator could be apprehended the possibility of offering the conspirator a penalty less than the ultimate one might be sufficient to induce the conspirator to implicate his associates.

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  • 1 month later...

...........................................

In Tim's Odio Topic I thought I would see if I could find DeTorres in any of the Dealey pics. So I studied DeTorres pic supplied by James.

Two main characteristics stood out, his nose and his hairy arms. So looking through folder of pics.

I came across one with a very similar nose. To my surprise it was Sturgis. OK fair enuff, lets wander down that road a bit.

To my surprise his hair line at his ear is also VERY similar. As is the ears. When resized and checked against a number of different pics of Sturgis, these features are also located in the same place. The jaw line is the same. The hair color.

This is interesting (I thought reasonably so).

Sturgis has distinctive wavy hair. The DeTorres pics have DeTorres wearing a cap over his hair.

The pencil thin moustache of DeTorres gives him a particular look. When putting this on a pic of Sturgis he gets the same look.

Most Pics of Sturgis are him clean shaven and in a suit. The pics of DeTorres are in casual dress.

People tend to notice features that are distinctive. In this case moustache, suit, beanie. They would tend to distract from other features.

Another pic of Sturgis shows he is a 'pointer'. DeTorres is too. Not such a defining chracteristic, but still...

Please refer to the images in Tim's "The Odio Incident : a different perspective" Topic (page 5 I think)

...........................................

Dis-Guise

r.v., -guised, -guis·ing, -guis·es.

To modify the manner or appearance of in order to prevent recognition.

To furnish with a disguise.

To conceal or obscure by dissemblance or false show; misrepresent: disguise one's true intentions.

hide sturgis : hiDE sTURgIS : hisg DE TUR IS : guise DeTurris (tur is the middle-english word that torres is derived from, Latin : turris, meaning : watchtower) : DeTorres.

Bernard means 'strong as a lion(Leon)'.

The strong, tall watcher, defender : Sturgis, legend in his own mind?

..........................................

Should be easy to debunk. I don't need it to be Sturgis. The similarities are curious though. Was/is Sturgis hairy? Any pics of his arms. I know virtually nothing about these characters, so perhaps someone who does could point out a good reason for why DeTorres and Sturgis could definitely NOT be the same person.

Edited by John Dolva
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I found one image showing Sturgis' arm. Unfortunately the resolution is poor. In it on his left wrist he is wearing a watch. The left arm of DeTorres shows an area less tanned where a watch would be worn.

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John, it is not uncommon, of course, for men to wear watches on their left wrist.

Yes, certainly Tim. Operative word being 'wear'. Detorres' arm indicates he usually wears one. Here he doesn't. Also it may indicate 'handedness'? Do left handed men wear them on opposite arm? I don't know. Never thought much about it.

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...........................................

Should be easy to debunk. I don't need it to be Sturgis. The similarities are curious though. Was/is Sturgis hairy? Any pics of his arms. I know virtually nothing about these characters, so perhaps someone who does could point out a good reason for why DeTorres and Sturgis could definitely NOT be the same person.

Sturgis died some time ago. According to the Odio thread, De Torres is still alive. Sturgis was an American citizen of Italian descent. I believe de Torres was a Cuban exile. While it's possible the men knew each other--maybe someone more knowledgeable on De Torres than myself can say for sure--there's no reason to believe they are related in any way. While there's a slight resemblance in the nose, they really don't even look that much alike. I get sidetracked on stuff all the time, John. I think you've let yourself get sidetracked with this one.'

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  • 4 weeks later...

...

Edited by John Dolva
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  • 3 months later...

a product of a fevered mind late at night::

absolutely 100% speculation, was reading r.l. stevensons classic the strange case of dr jekyll and mister hyde: H. Jekyll E. Hyde

jesus james angleton yale poetry literature skull and bones nick : jekyll and hyde?

jek yll hyde

j ek y hydell

j y ek hyde ll

j y al ek hydell

j yale k hydell

j y alek hydell

jja yale alec hidell

james jesus angleton as alec hidell was LHO's control...

read recently that at some time Lee said he got instructions from a hidell in NY

came across another site in a search for mkultra where there is a letter(redacted to hide id's) written in the 50's by someone talking about creating a 'jekyll and hyde' persona to among other things set up accounts. JJA is involved in this particular investigation as a witness mentioned in another context.

__

posting this in case anyone has any thoughts that may support this ramble

Edited by John Dolva
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and if you take 11 from 11 you get 0 curiouser and curiouser...

DIG THIS, Masonic ritual rises to the 33rd degree (Rose Croix) 3+3=6 Now as we have assertained SIX is nearly half of ELEVEN...Pass the tablets Doctor :lol:

;) 22 + 11 = 33..ohmigod! Pass the ice cream, please. :ice

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and if you take 11 from 11 you get 0 curiouser and curiouser...

DIG THIS, Masonic ritual rises to the 33rd degree (Rose Croix) 3+3=6 Now as we have assertained SIX is nearly half of ELEVEN...Pass the tablets Doctor :lol:

;) 22 + 11 = 33..ohmigod! Pass the ice cream, please. :ice

chock chips??

deja vu

.. I think we determined that it only works if you suspend reality... some people do, whackos who kill perhaps more so...

http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/anti-hate/symbolsofhate.html

scroll down for the numbers

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came across another site in a search for mkultra where there is a letter(redacted to hide id's) written in the 50's by someone talking about creating a 'jekyll and hyde' persona to among other things set up accounts. JJA is involved in this particular investigation as a witness mentioned in another context.

Set up accounts? Could you elaborate, I find this interesting. Also if there was ever an area that should be looked into it concerns Ruth Paine and the 'Hyde' connection. As you may or may not know, Ruth Paine's genealogy is tied to the Hyde family. When George DeMohrenschildt met with Clemard Charles in Haiti with William Avery Hyde, of the Agency for International Development [CIA SSD-157,435]

from the Khazak Weberman

"MEMORANDUM FOR FILE (CI/OA File 59751)

SUBJECT: Mrs. Ruth Paine nee Hyde

Shortly after the assassination of President Kennedy the press carried information concerning a Mrs. Ruth Paine who had befriended the OSWALD family. Mr. Bruce Solie, of the Office of Security, called to my attention that the Office of Security has information of possible interest concerning William A. Hyde, who had three children; namely Ruth Hyde, Sylvia Hyde Hoke and Carl Hyde. Mrs. Ruth Paine was known to have had the name Hyde prior to her marriage.

On November 29, 1963, I advised Sam Papich to contact Mr. Solie of the Office of Security for information of possible interest in connection with Mrs. Ruth Paine. I indicated to Mr. Papich that the Office of Security information was of possible security significance and consideration and I was subsequently informed that the Bureau had been in touch with Mr. Solie for its information. Birch D. O'Neal Chief, CI/SIG.

[NARA CIA 1993.07.08.09.:07:31:900520]

On March 1, 1964, FBI S.A. Charles M. Beall, Jr., ascertained at CIA that its security and foreign indices did not contain any references identifiable with Michael Ralph Paine. CIA advised its only reference to Ruth Avery Hyde, nee Hyde, was set out in CIA Report prepared in 1957 on William Avery Hyde, father of Ruth. This CIA material was furnished the Bureau via Liaison on December 4, 1963, with request the CIA material not be inserted in the Bureau reports. Dallas is cognizant." [FBI 105-1717-225 - Hosty's name on the "Searched, Indexed, Serialized and Filed April 19, 1964, FBI - Dallas" stamp on this document.] HEMMING told this researcher: "He was covering his ass."

The FBI reported: "On December 4, 1963, CIA made available information to the Bureau Liaison that in 1957 CIA considered using this individual to operate a cooperative educational center in Vietnam but he was not used by the CIA. Investigation by CIA at that time concerning William Avery Hyde was favorable."

Ruth Paine commented: "The information about the CIA considering my father for Vietnam was a surprise. I doubt if he would have accepted such an invitation, if it was offered. He certainly didn't go. He went to Peru. He was working with the Agency for International Development. He helped to develop rural credit unions for the compasinos so that they could save enough money to make loans to themselves, instead of always paying the huge bank rates. He loved it. I know that USAID asked my father to appraise a situation in Georgetown, Guiana. He recommended against starting a project there, as he thought the local officials corrupt." In 1964 Ruth Paine informed the Warren Commission:

Paine: My father is working for Nationwide Insurance Company. He has been on special assignment from them to - I am not certain of the name of the organization - to cooperative alliance in Europe.

Jenner: That is a cooperative alliance of insurance companies?Paine: Having to do with insurance; yes.

Jenner: Insurance companies?

Paine: Yes; that is my understanding.

Jenner: This is a commercial activity, isn't it?

Paine: Yes; I believe so. And -

Jenner: The cooperative alliance in Europe, does that include any Iron Curtain countries?

Paine: No. He is presently teaching a course at Ohio State University and he is on loan for that portion of time which he occupies with teaching from his regular job at Nationwide, although he is at the company most of the time"

Did Nationwide have any affiliation with Southland Life Insurance Co., located at the Southland Bdlg. 'where George DeMohrenschildt once took LHO to obtain a job, and "Maurice Bishop" was seen with LHO by Antonio Veciana? Inquiring minds want to know

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