The Fidel Castro theory

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Atheists, please avert your eye's from tim's logical gymnastics.( only joshing Tim.)

[Tim Gratz]

In another thread, I posted that perhaps John has concluded that when God did not use Hurricane Dennis to "get me" (hurricanes are always considered "acts of God, after all) He was trying to tell us that perhaps my scenario is correct.

One should not use God's name lightly (I know one scholar who always writes

"G-d" out of respect for the Deity. )

So, after first assuring God that I intend no disrespect for using His holy name lightly, a friend of mine used to say that she KNEW the first question I would ask upon arrival in Heaven was: "Who Really Killed JFK?" Of course, the joke going around is that God's answer to that question is: "I have a theory about that!"

But I suggest to my atheist friends that the only way you will know FOR SURE who killed JFK is if you assure yourself a place in Heaven. Well, people have come to God for stranger reasons than that!

Edited July 11, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[John Simkin]

In another thread, I posted that perhaps John has concluded that when God did not use Hurricane Dennis to "get me" (hurricanes are always considered "acts of God, after all) He was trying to tell us that perhaps my scenario is correct.

You need to reread what I actually said. In no way was I suggesting that "your scenario is correct". Anyway it was a joke based on the name Dennis. It provided no evidence on the "Tim Gratz/Far Right" theory on the assassination first proposed by Billy Joe Hargis in 1963/1964.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhargis.htm

[Tim Gratz]

John, I pray for your salvation, but I knew it was a joke about Dennis!

My joke was to, tongue-in-cheek, take you literally and seriously!

But to get serious, in 1964 the "Castro did it" scenario may have been motivated by right-winger's desires to attribute the murder most foul to a Communist.

Current scenarios that Castro did it assume he acted either in retaliation for past US efforts to kill him or to prevent future attempts on his life, motives in no way connected to his Communism. If the US effort to overthrow Diem had instead been a series of unsuccessful plots to murder him, I suspect Diem may have re-acted as I think Castro did. Retaliation and self-defense know no ideology.

And it is not only right-wingers who believe Castro did it. Joseph Trento, Joseph Califano are certainly left-of-center, as is Gus Russo (who only suspects but does not posit Cuban government involvement).

The conclusions of Trento and Califano, I can assure you, have no genealogical basis in the rantings of Hargis.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

Robert wrote:

I had always assumed that Tim's source material was the discredited stuff issued by Langley and its multiple mouthpieces. However, upon discovering the attached item, I am now convinced the source of Tim's evidence-free material - just as credible as Langley's - originates much closer to his home... just up the I-95 from Key West in Boca Raton.

Well, Robert is wrong again.

Interstate 95 stops in Miami. No way we'd allow such a monstrosity in the Keys.

US Highway One, however, starts in Ft. Kent, Maine and ends at the Monroe County Courthouse on Whitehead Street in Key West. There is a large sign on the courthouse lawn reading: "The end of the rainbow" at the end of Highway One. In the Keys there are green mile markers posted at regular mile intervals designating the miles from that sign, which is at MM0. So if you drive to the Keys, once you are in Monroe County, you are regularly reminded how far away you are from Key West.

Now there is also Highway A1A as opposed to Highway One and that does get to be confusing.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Dawn Meredith]

In another thread, I posted that perhaps John has concluded that when God did not use Hurricane Dennis to "get me" (hurricanes are always considered "acts of God, after all) He was trying to tell us that perhaps my scenario is correct.

__________________________

So, because you did not die in the storm this is your PROOF that your innane Castro-did it theory is correct after all????

Tim I thought you went to law school. Your lack of logic, not to mention proof, never ceases to astound me.

Dawn

[Tim Gratz]

Now I hate to say this but I sometimes judge a person's intelligence by their ability to discern an obvious joke.

I suggest anybody who believes I thought God had vindicated my theory because I was not killed in a hurricane needs a few days of rest (at least!).

Dawn, did you even READ my Post #19? I already said it was a joke!

Edited July 12, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Mark Knight]

Now I hate to say this but I sometimes judge a person's intelligence by their ability to discern an obvious joke.

This statement is obviously untrue. It would be true if Mr. Gratz had said, "...I often judge a person's intelligence..."

Tim, I believe that part of the problem here is that, far too often, what is "obvious" to you as having been written tongue-in-cheek is not quite so obvious to many of the others here.

Often, as with many other jokes, "you had to be there" to see the humor...and, unfortunately, you were the only one "there," so the intended humor escapes the rest of us. It has less to do with intelligence than it does one's perspective. And you and I both know that one's perspective can affect the conclusions derived from what one witnesses.

Example: what Abraham Zapruder witnessed fron the north/west side of Dealy Plaza was slightly different than what Mary Moorman witnessed from the south/east side of the plaza--even though both witnessed the same event at the same moment, each had a different perspective on what actually happened.

Correspondingly, what ONE person sees as humorous may not be humorous to someone viewing the same scene from a different frame of reference...even though the one who failed to see the humor MAY have a higher level of intelligence.

So I respectfully ask you to please stop casting aspersions upon the intelligence of those who don't see the world through your eyes.

Edited July 12, 2005 by Mark Knight

[Tim Gratz]

Mark, respectfully, isn't it rather obvious (I intend that as a supreme under-statement) that no one of any intelligence would believe their scenario of the assassination was vindicated when he or she was not killed in a hurricane?

It all started as a joke by John. I, obviously, knew John was joking, and carried the joke one step further. And Dawn BELIEVED me!!!

I mean, I almost fell out of my seat reading that she actually thought I thought my scenario was vindicated by God because I was not killed by an act of God. It is obviously ridiculous. Elst why has God not killed anyone holding contrary theories?

Perhaps I should have refered to "naivety" rather than "intelligence". In my opinion, it takes a rather high degree of naivety to believe some of the outlandish theories that have been suggested here from time to time.

It reminds me of the time when I suggested, obviously facetiously, that the "badgeman" was Raul Diaz and Robert Charles-Dunne believed me. Obviously, one cannot distinguish facial characteristics from "badgeman" and I have no idea what Raul Diaz looked like.

Edited July 12, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

Mark, as an example, on the thread: "Who Was In Prison with Santos" James Richards yesterday posted a great picture of Santo Trafficante in 1959, flanked by a hispanic on one side and a uniformed black man on the other side.

I posted a question who the people standing next to Trafficante.

Before James could reply (they were Cubans whose names he did not know), Ron Ecker posted a reply that they were Rolando Cubela and a young Idi Amin.

Of course I knew that was Ron's humour.

So I still say that anyone should have realized that when I said that God did not take the opportunity to kill me through hurricane Dennis He (God) must be in agreement with my scenario on the Kennedy assassination that I was only joking. Kind of like when I posted and said Castro must NOT have done it or Cuban security would have already killed me.

With all due respect to your posting, it does make me wonder when a member cannot recognize obvious humour (even if he or she does not think the humour is funny).

Edited July 12, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Dawn Meredith]

Mark, respectfully, isn't it rather obvious (I intend that as a supreme under-statement) that no one of any intelligence would believe their scenario of the assassination was vindicated when he or she was not killed in a hurricane?

It all started as a joke by John. I, obviously, knew John was joking, and carried the joke one step further. And Dawn BELIEVED me!!!

______________________

Tim

I must confess that when I do read your posts I just skim them. YOu can guess why this is: your message is just one theme and it long ago became tiresome for me, so I just quit reading it. When someone engages you in debate on this Castro disinfo I read those dialogues, but not usually your posts. YOu take yourself and your point about Castro SO seriously-overly so in my opinion- that yes I failed to see this as a joke. You are not one to make jokes generally and I find little humor in JFK assassination related topics. Especially when the person joking is someone who is generally posting what I consider disinformation. So sorry I missed your humor. Glad you're safe from the storm.

Dawn

[Pat Speer]

Mark, as an example, on the thread:  "Who Was In Prison with Santos" James Richards yesterday posted a great picture of Santo Trafficante in 1959, flanked by a hispanic on one side and a uniformed black man on the other side.

I posted a question who the people standing next to Trafficante.

Before James could reply (they were Cubans whose names he did not know), Ron Ecker posted a reply that they were Rolando Cubela and a young Idi Amin.

Of course I knew that was Ron's humour.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim, in one of your typical disinformation moves you blame Ron for this bad joke when in fact the joke was my own. Now if you will finally admit your sins and explain why Karl Rove wants to blame Ron for my bad joke, we'll start reading your posts again.

(THIS IS A JOKE.)

Edited July 12, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

It reminds me of the time when I suggested, obviously facetiously, that the "badgeman" was Raul Diaz and Robert Charles-Dunne believed me.  Obviously, one cannot distinguish facial characteristics from "badgeman" and I have no idea what Raul Diaz looked like.

To the contrary, Tim.  I asked a series of sarcastic rhetorical questions designed to underline the silliness you resort to when unable to answer a question.  That question - where is the photo of Diaz in Dealey Plaza, which you insist exists but are unable to locate or identify - remains unanswered, one notes.  No surprise there.

That I emphasized your inane lack of response with tongue firmly planted in cheek was apparently lost on you.

According to you, that must somehow reflect poorly upon either your intelligence or your naivete.  That's a rather cruel judgement, I think.

Perhaps you're familiar with a book called the Bible.  It has a pithy piece of advice: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."  You should read it some time.  It's highly recommended by many of those who have read it.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited July 12, 2005 by Robert Charles-Dunne

[Tim Gratz]

Shanet wrote:

The problem with Tim Gratz's theory is that hinges on Santo Trafficante.

Trafficante had shadowy dealings with organized crime in the US and he had running interests in Cuba.

By twisting the limited record, he can be linked to Castro's agents.....but...

It is just as easy, or easier, to see that TRAFFICANTE was linked to Carlos Marcello, Sam Giancana and Johnny Roselli.....

Trafficante could easily have been linked to both Castro and Rosselli and his fellow mobsters. The ideas are not mutually exclusive.

This is from Trento's "The Secret History of the CIA":

Trafficante placed Castro agents among the refugees fleeing Cuba after the revolution. Most Cuban-Americans never realized that some of the most fervent anti-Communist emigre organizations were controlled by Fidel Castro's DGI, the KGB-trained Cuban intelligence agency. Nor did the CIA realize that among its recruits for its anti-Castro army were some of Castro's most loyal supporters.

Ricardo Canere, a Cuban-American, worked for Harvey's anti-Castro operation and became embroiled in Trafficante's criminal activity. [Canere stated that a] man out of the Cuban mission to the UN named Fernandez ran the Cuban DGI in the United States. He took orders from Trafficante.

From the 2001 hardback edition, page 200.

Edited July 18, 2005 by Tim Gratz