Ted Shackley

[Tim Gratz]

Nothing too substantive, but I read somewhere (I think in "The Very Best Men") that Harvey was called "Pear" because of his physical shape and Shackley was sometimes called "the son of Pear" because he idolized Harvey.

An interesting post, Pat.

[Tim Gratz]

As you all know, I think the Cubela caper probably played a part in the assassination.

In that regard, for those of you who may not be familiar with the entire story, Shackley did not think Fitzgerald should meet with Cubela and one source states there was a shouting match between Shackley and Fitzgerald re the matter.

Fitzgerald went, of course, claiming to be a personal emissary of RFK.

Edited July 26, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[James Richards]

At another point he mentions our favorite Dealey plaza witness, Rip Robertson, and notes that Robertson worked with a team including Grayston Lynch and Mickey Kappes. (Does anyone know what became of Kappes?) He also notes that Robertson's team leaders were surviving vets from the BOP. Does this fit in with our theory that Julio Garcia was his team leader? Was Garcia a BOP vet? (Pat Speer)

Pat,

Mickey Kappes was supposedly a participant of Operation Tilt. He and James Arthur Lewis appeared late on the scene and went along for the ride. I also have some unconfirmed information that Kappes, Lewis and a guy named Ralph Schlafter found themselves mixed up in this treasure hunting business where they were dealing in Mayan artefacts. Lewis died in a diving accident in 1970, I do not know what happened to Kappes.

I have been through the Brigade 2506 members and Garcia's name is not there. The various published lists do have names missing so I guess we can't rule it out. The fact that Garcia was present at the Menoyo run camp suggests that he was not just a walk-in.

James

Edited July 26, 2005 by James Richards

[Robert Howard]

Upon looking back through the book, I found I over-stated Shackley's statements about drug-runners among the Cuban infiltration teams. He claims no awareness that this occurred, argues that he fought against it happening, but acknowledges that it still might have happened.

He also confirms the names of a few of his JMWAVE employees. While these names might be common knowledge, his confirmation is envaluable.

On page 51, for example, he says that both Dave Morales and Tony Sforza warned him about the hazard of mafia influence on the exiles, particularly the influence of Santos Trafficante. Elsewhere I've read that Sforza dropped dead around the same time as Morales. Should he be considered another mysterious death?

On this same page he says that the original station chief was Al Cox and his assistant was Bob Moore, and that Morales' PM assistant was Tom Clines.

Shackley also refers to William Harvey as his mentor and says that Harvey's creation of Task Force W was a sardonic reference to William Walker, the American adventurer who tried to capture Honduras in 1860.

At another point he mentions our favorite Dealey plaza witness, Rip Robertson, and notes that Robertson worked with a team including Grayston Lynch and Mickey Kappes. (Does anyone know what became of Kappes?) He also notes that Robertson's team leaders were surviving vets from the BOP. Does this fit in with our theory that Julio Garcia was his team leader? Was Garcia a BOP vet?

Shackley also mentions that Cuban agents called Morales "El Gordo," the Fat One.

I looked through the book and it appeared to me that he was writing as little as possible about the CIA/Cuban backdrop to JFK's assassination without it being conspicuous, did anyone else get that impression?

Edited October 5, 2005 by Robert Howard

[Tom Marchand]

He admits that the anti-Castro Cubans running infiltration teams into Cuba were running drugs back out.

Drugs and the CIA, what a surprise.

[Pat Speer]

He admits that the anti-Castro Cubans running infiltration teams into Cuba were running drugs back out.

Drugs and the CIA, what a surprise.

I corrected this post in a later post to more accurately describe Shackley's views. He acknowledged the drug running was a concern, but claimed to have shut it down. Ironically, he claims Dave Morales was the one who warned him about Trafficante.

[Tom Marchand]

James:

As you know, a few years back, Martha Schallhorn and I published an article in JFK/Deep Politics Quarterly, drawing likenesses between people caught on camera in and around Dealey Plaza and men sometimes linked with the assassination.

Why would people like Shackley and Lansdale risk being around Dealey Plaza during the assassination?

I corrected this post in a later post to more accurately describe Shackley's views. He acknowledged the drug running was a concern, but claimed to have shut it down. Ironically, he claims Dave Morales was the one who warned him about Trafficante.

I understand but drugs always seem to be envolved with CIA operations. I remember reading about Barry Seal flying guns down to the Contras and Cocain on the return trip.

[Thomas Graves]

Antti:

He is a comparison of Florer and Kolby sent to me by James this morning. Kolby is new to me.

There certainly is a resemblance between Florer and Kolby.

Allan

_____________________________________________

Bowers said he saw two men standing near each other behind the picket fence before the shooting and that one of them was wearing a plaid shirt or jacket. Well, maybe he saw "Florer" and "Florer" simply put his rain coat on after the shooting to hide the jacket. If I remember correctly, "Florer" did say in his sworn statement on 11/22 that he went to the railroad tracks after the shooting (and before he went to the 3rd floor of one of the DP buildings to use a phone). The photo of "Florer" (post #11 above) is the first time I've noticed such a plaid jacket in the vicinity of the assassination on 11/22/63. Bowers' statement makes me wonder why a possible conspirator would wear such a "loud" item of clothing at the scene of the crime (and it must have been a relatively "loud" for Bowers to have even noticed that it was a plaid from where he was). Maybe it was so he could be easily identified by co-conspirators... All he had to do was put his raincoat on afterwards. BTW, I recently rented "The Murder of JFK: A Revisionist History" from Blockbuster online, and it has about 6 seconds of excellent footage of "Florer" being arrested. When I saw "Florer's" double chin, I came to the realization that he was probably older than the 23 years that he claimed to be....

Also on the same DVD is some more excellent footage of Oswald surrounded by people, including the police, after his confrontation on the sidewalk with some anti-Castro Cubans over his handing out of "Fair Play for Cuba" pamphlets. What's really interesting to me is that a tall, dark-complected man, very athetically built and wearing a suit or a sportscoat can be seen in the very near foreground walking in the general direction of Oswald as Oswald is walking towards him. Oswald seems to look at him in the face as they get relatively close to each other. I think the man has something hidden under his coat in the middle of his back and I have a feeling that the man just might be David Morales. You can't miss the guy I'm talking about-- his back is to the camera the whole time and he scratches the back of his neck with one of the fingers on his right hand... Comments, anyone? Feel free to start a new thread if you think it's warranted.

FWIW, Thomas

_____________________________________________

Edited January 13, 2007 by Thomas Graves

[James Richards]

Thomas,

A couple of curious things regarding the real Larry Florer. His brother was Neil Florer who was a graduate from the University of Texas. He married a woman by the name of Janet Smelser and the Matron of Honor was one Mrs. Donald House. I have not been able to find out if she is connected to the Donald House arrested on the 22nd of November, 1963 in Fort Worth.

Larry Florer was a pallbearer at the 1975 funeral of Dallas nightclub owner Bill Fauss. Fauss was killed (shot and stabbed) by William Jones who was somehow related to Paul Roland Jones.

Loose associations I know but if that is not the real Florer arrested in Dealey Plaza, then some leverage must have been applied from somewhere. I also have not been able to discover if Fauss was ever associated with Jack Ruby.

FWIW (not a whole lot unfortunately),

James

[Jack White]

Antti:

He is a comparison of Florer and Kolby sent to me by James this morning. Kolby is new to me.

There certainly is a resemblance between Florer and Kolby.

Allan

_____________________________________________

Bowers said he saw two men standing near each other behind the picket fence before the shooting and that one of them was wearing a plaid shirt or jacket. Well, maybe he saw "Florer" and "Florer" simply put his rain coat on after the shooting to hide the jacket. If I remember correctly, "Florer" did say in his sworn statement on 11/22 that he went to the railroad tracks after the shooting (and before he went to the 3rd floor of one of the DP buildings to use a phone). The photo of "Florer" (post #11 above) is the first time I've noticed such a plaid jacket in the vicinity of the assassination on 11/22/63. Bowers' statement makes me wonder why a possible conspirator would wear such a "loud" item of clothing at the scene of the crime (and it must have been a relatively "loud" for Bowers to have even noticed that it was a plaid from where he was). Maybe it was so he could be easily identified by co-conspirators... All he had to do was put his raincoat on afterwards. BTW, I recently rented "The Murder of JFK: A Revisionist History" from Blockbuster online, and it has about 4 seconds of excellent footage of "Florer" being arrested. When I saw "Florer's" double chin, I came to the conclusion that he might have been a lot older than the 23 years that he claimed to be. So I agree with Shanet-- I tend to think that "Florer" was Shackley.

Also on the same DVD is some more excellent footage of Oswald surrounded by people, including the police, after his confrontation on the sidewalk with some anti-Castro Cubans over his handing out of "Fair Play for Cuba" pamphlets. What's really interesting to me is that a tall, dark-complected man, very athetically built and wearing a suit or a sportscoat can be seen in the very near foreground walking in the general direction of Oswald as Oswald is walking towards him. Oswald seems to look at him in the face as they get relatively close to each other. I think the man has something hidden under his coat in the middle of his back and I have a feeling that the man just might be David Morales. You can't miss the guy I'm talking about-- his back is to the camera the whole time and he scratches the back of his neck with one of the fingers on his right hand... Comments, anyone? Feel free to start a new thread if you think it's warranted.

FWIW, Thomas

_____________________________________________

As I recall, James Files claimed to have worn a REVERSABLE jacket which was PLAID ON ONE SIDE,

and after the shooting, turned it inside out.

Jack

[Myra Bronstein]

I may have missed the appropriate thread, but I was wondering if anyone has read this book yet?

http://www.potomacbooksinc.com/Books/BookD...productID=96265

James

I have to wonder what one hopes to gain in reading a book by a CIA thug. Since their "job" was to murder and lie (which tend to go hand in hand), how could anyone trust a word that's said in a book written by one of them?

[Thomas Graves]

I may have missed the appropriate thread, but I was wondering if anyone has read this book yet?

http://www.potomacbooksinc.com/Books/BookD...productID=96265

James

I have to wonder what one hopes to gain in reading a book by a CIA thug. Since their "job" was to murder and lie (which tend to go hand in hand), how could anyone trust a word that's said in a book written by one of them?

__________________________________________

Myra Myra Myra,

Even the worst criminal will occasionally tell bits of the truth or get "caught up" in his lies by telling a lie that tellingly contradicts a previous lie...

__________________________________________

[Thomas Graves]

DP

Edited April 21, 2007 by Thomas Graves

[William Kelly]

Here's a map of JMWAVE - circa 1964. Thanks to Gordon Winslow.

http://cuban-exile.com/menu1/%21wave.html

[Wim Dankbaar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrj5lO6rlhA