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Car seen leaving carpark


Guest Eugene B. Connolly
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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

I was just thinking whether it is possible that the shots that hit and killed President Kennedy were fired from this car which left within seconds of the shots being fired.

Anyone any ideas on this?

EBC

Edited by Eugene B. Connolly
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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Eugene, I think this car vanished that fast, that nobody is able to see it. <_<

George

George,

Wasn't the car caught by Orville Nix in his movie taken from opposite the Grassy Knoll? Just a very short glimpse: Isn't it possible that this was the getaway car or at least that it had something to do with the assassination?

EBC

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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

"But maybe I have to check my eyesight or to replace my computer."

George,

May I suggest you try both options? <_<

EBC

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Roger Craig"s evidence is dubious, but, could this be his Car Park girl.

WC Testimony.

QUOTE:

Mr. BELIN - Where did the noises or shots sound to you like they came from?

Mr. CRAIG - It was hard to tell because---uh---they had an echo, you know. There was actually two explosions with each one. There was the uh--the shot and then the echo from it. So, it was hard to tell.

Mr. BELIN - Did people tell you, as you ran over there, where they thought the shots came from?

Mr. CRAIG - No; as I reached the railroad yard, I talked to a girl getting her car that--uh--thought they came from the park area on the north side of Elm Street.

Mr. BELIN - Did she say why she thought they came from there?

Mr. CRAIG - No; she was standing there and it sounded real loud at that particular point--

Mr. BELIN - Uh-huh.

Mr. CRAIG - And she thought that's where they came from.

Mr. BELIN - Did anyone say they had seen anything--such as a rifle?

Mr. CRAIG - Yes; later on. A few minutes after that--I had taken this girl to one of our criminal investigators---and was talking to some other people. I talked to a young couple and the boy said he saw two men on the uh--sixth floor of the Book Depository Building over there; one of them had a rifle with the telescopic sight on it--but he thought they were Secret Service agents on guard and didn't report it. This was about--uh---oh, he said, 15 minutes before the motorcade ever arrived.

Mr. BELIN - Do you remember if that boy's name would have been Arnold Rowland---(spelling) R-o-w-l-a-n-d?

Mr. CRAIG - Yes.

Mr. BELIN - Does that sound like it?

Mr. CRAIG - Yes; it sounds like the name---yes.

Mr. BELIN - His wife might be Barbara Rowland?

Mr. CRAIG - Yes; I believe her name was Barbara.

Mr. BELIN - Before you talked to this couple, did you do anything else or talk with anyone before you got back with them?

Mr. CRAIG - Well, I looked around, you know, for just--after I turned this girl over to Mr. Lewis--I began looking around and talking to people to see if they'd seen anything. And that's when I ran onto this man and his wife.

Mr. BELIN - And about what time do you think this was in relation to---from when you heard the shots to the time .that you talked to this young couple?

Mr. CRAIG - I don't know. 10 minutes, maybe.

Mr. BELIN - You believe you talked to this young couple 10 minutes after the shots were fired?

Mr. CRAIG - It might have been 10 minutes.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Then, what did you do? But, first of all, let me ask you this: Did. this girl say that she saw any person with a rifle?

Mr. CRAIG - No; no.

I found this when i was flicking through the frames from the DCA film.

5456.jpg

5457.jpg

Movie here:

http://www.jfk-online.com/DCA.mpg

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QUOTE:

"Locked gate at parking lot?"

I have been asked if I can find corroborating evidence that the parking lot behind the grassy knoll had a locked gate on it.

So far, the only evidence I have been able to find for this comes from Roger Craig in "When They Kill a President."

He wrote:

"The parking lot behind the picket fence was of little importance to most of the investigators at the scene except that the shots were thought to have come from there.

Let us examine this parking lot. It was leased by Deputy Sheriff B. D. Gossett. He in turn rented parking space by the month to the deputies who worked in the court house, except for official vehicles. I rented one of these spaces from Gossett when I was a dispatcher working days or evenings. I paid Gossett $3.00 per month and was given a key to the lot. An interesting point is that the lot had an iron bar across the only entrance and exit (which were the same). The bar had a chain and lock on it. The only people having access to it were deputies with keys."

http://roswell.fortunecity.com/angelic/96/pcissu9.htm

Can anyone steer me to a source that cooroborates this?

A google search for Deputy Sheriff B.D. Gossett only yields Craig's article.

Steve Thomas

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QUOTE:

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.conspira...999924faa1543bc

While studying the Museum's new tape transfer of the original 8mm color Robert Hughes film, I noticed a sign on top of a pole back in the railroad parking lot which says, "No Parking Private Property." There's a third line, but I cannot make out the letters.

What surprises me is learning that the whole area was NOT for public

parking. Therefore, why would any cars cruise in and out at any time as Lee Bowers observed?

What, if anything, did those two or three cars have to do with the Kennedy assassination? Just wondering...

--

Gary Mack

Archivist

The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza

Is this the no parking sighn near the tower.

5458.jpg

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QUOTE:

Robin,

Not sure who took these photos, but I found them at the Dallas Library Texas History Archives. They appear to be the parking lot(s) north and west of the TSBD, and the first one looks to show the reverse of the Parking sign. In the first one, you can see a chain link fence between the police and TSBD, which appears to be open. The second photo shows the parking lot looking south, past the TSBD, and appears to be the same 2 police officers and car.

Respectfully,

Jerry Dealey

Note the wire fence just behind the cop car in the first photo.

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5351.jpg

Edited by Robin Unger
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QUOTE:

Gary Mack did respond to me, and said that a Times Herald photographer took a picture of policemen talking with a lady that was trying to leave the parking lot. He said it was right in front of the TSBD looking west, and there appeared to be a "sliding gate" there. He said it was on the Internet somewhere, but I could not find it.

I cannot see one on the Elm St Extension, from either above, or any other photos. However it could be alongside the TSBD extension.

The photos I posted, with the sign, appear to be further back, to the north of the parking that is accessible from the Elm Extension. It appears that you went over a railroad track, with a number of buildings (sheds) along it, and the chain link fence I see in the photos, along with the sign, is there.

Maybe the Railroad workers parked in one area, and the Deputies in another, and the TSBD in another. I would think the Railroad workers parked in the area accessible from the Elm St Extension, because it was later determined that the TSBD Annex was actually on Railroad property (why it was torn down).

Respectfully,

Jerry Dealey

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QUOTE:

So far it seems that we have the chain fence with lock that Craig described and perhaps a sliding gate per Gary Mack but we don't have a photo.

So the solid question of access control to the parking areas remains open.

It seems like the question of parking attendants does too. Given the numbers of cars parked in the lot its sort of hard to imagine everybody having a key and getting out of their vehicle to unlock the gate much less lock it back. Or did some attendant open and close it during part of each day? Given Bowers remarks it seems like he spoke as if their was a gate or some sort of access control...if not he would have seen cars wondering around at all times of the day looking for spots and it would have been routine not worthy of a remark.

This reminds me of our lack of knowledge of what business or individuals occupied what areas in the DalTex in 1963...but this is even worse considering the importance of Bowers remark.

Perhaps somebody could post on the Dallas historical society board, sure seems like something that deserves to be tied down.

-- Larry Hancock

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QUOTE:

I got a reply from the other message board, from a kind gentleman by the name of John Whitehead. He sent me 2 other overviews of the parking lot which are attached. They are just a little clearer than the cropped ones I supplied earlier.

The first one is taken from over Commerce St, and a few blocks east of DP. It looks like there was 1 row of parking just behind the Pergola, and a driveway, then anothr row of parking. Then so "low" RR tracks, or (more likely) where tracks used to be. Then another row of parking, a driveway, and another row of parking.

Then there are actual railroad tracks, complete with a freight car parked there, and light poles a little bit outside of that track. The driveway from the Elm Extension goes over this track in only one place, and I feel that is where the Parking sign originally pointed out in this thread. It looks to be a little left of the parked Freight car.

This area looks like it may have had a fence. And since it curves from the North of the TSBD, to the West, it could be what Gary saw in the background while looking down the Elm St Extension.

The problem with all of this, is the Policemen photos I posted. In those, it looks to be the Private Parking sign in front of them, but also some Utility poles in front of them. One of these poles is seen in this second photo, but blocked by the TSBD in the first. Look to the "Lee Bowers" tower in the second photo. But I do not see a second pole, and the 2nd Policmen shots appear to have multiple, in this parking lot.

The 1948 photo, as well as this first shot, do show the small building (in the first shot her, look just to the right of the TSBD). The roof of this building is definately in the first Policemen shot.

John says he might have the reverse angle overhead shot (from the Stemmons area), but will have to dig.

But I THINK I can see where a fence / and gate would be by that actual railroad track. It does look like there was a "secured" area, as well as a non locked area, closer to the Elm St entrance. Bowers would probably have parked in this more secure area, which is right by "North Tower 106" (its technical name, built in 1916).

We are getting closer to being able to reconstruct the parking lots.

Respectfully,

Jerry Dealey

5407.jpg

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