A Shot from The Left

[Robin Unger]

Cutler Plat

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[Robin Unger]

LARGE Dealey Plaza Overhead 1967

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[Robin Unger]

high_res7.jpg Large

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[Robin Unger]

Approximation of Skull X-Ray over Zapruder GIF

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Edited April 4, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Z-312 - Z-330 Stabilized GIF

[John Dolva]

Excellent presentation, Robin. Note also the limo had passed the red coat, the black coat and the yellow line and at the white paper and at that time there was a 'tunnel' without people in line of fire. A good sniper had plenty of indicators necessary, like, flags on car, flapping of coats, humidity, elevation, direction, etc in order to make that a doable shot. I have seen reasons to consider it a double tap.

That was Price on the roof.

In the jfk film there is a brief scene shot from his vantage point. Below that was where HD Holme's ofiice was.

Blair, in another topic with Tosh there was a fairly thorough look at the southern Knoll.

I think it might have been Duke at one point attempting to get a photo or to get into the old post office but he couldn't.

[Thomas Graves]

Excellent presentation, Robin. Note also the limo had passed the red coat, the black coat and the yellow line and at the white paper and at that time there was a 'tunnel' without people in line of fire. A good sniper had plenty of indicators necessary, like, flags on car, flapping of coats, humidity, elevation, direction, etc in order to make that a doable shot. I have seen reasons to consider it a double tap.

That was Price on the roof.

In the jfk film there is a brief scene shot from his vantage point. Below that was where HD Holme's ofiice was.

Blair, in another topic with Tosh there was a fairly thorough look at the southern Knoll.

I think it might have been Duke at one point attempting to get a photo or to get into the old post office but he couldn't.

John,

Interesting post. I think you might be on to something regarding the old post office AKA the Terminal Annex Building, where, interestingly enough, Holmes worked and where, I've heard, several federal offices (for example ONI) were situated.

--Tommy

[Bernice Moore]

fwiw here is Sherry's study thank you and photos showing where she believes it was possible for a shot from the south side of the overpass..and or, the south side parking lot.....b........

http://www.jfklancer...rrez/index.html

by Sherry Fiester

Edited April 4, 2013 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

Here also are two photos, one from jerry dealey of the plaza as well as a member at Lancer by the last name of, valenti also showing the same...thanks to both... b..for your studies...click to enlarge...

Edited April 4, 2013 by Bernice Moore

[David Josephs]

Thanks B....

While the evidence suggests a shot may have originated there... I find the north side of Elm, with it's line of bystanders as a pretty terrible place to have as a background to the target, especially if there was a desire to avoid injuring innocent people.

Add now: and I unless there were shots from both knolls areas... I dont see how a piece of JFK flies EAST and SOUTH with a shot from the SOUTH WEST... I don't think there was any evidence of JFK found on the NORTH side of ELM.

I tend to think the shot came from the WEST end of the GK fence... yet the repeated mentioning of an injury to the left temple area suggests a shot from there was possible...

Cheers B

DJ

Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir; other officers, Secret Service as well, and somebody started, there was something red in the street and I went back over the wall and somebody brought me a piece of what he thought to be a firecracker and it turned out to be, I believe, I wouldn't quote this, but I turned it over to one of the Secret Service men and I told them it should go to the lab because it looked to me like human bone. I later found out it was supposedly a portion of the President's skull.

Mr. BALL - That you picked up off the street?

Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes.

Mr. BALL - What part of the street did you pick this up?

Mr. WEITZMAN - As the President's car was going off, it would be on the left-hand side of the street. It would be the----

Mr. BALL - The left-hand side facing----

Mr. WEITZMAN - That would be the south side of the street.

Mr. BALL - It was on the south side of the street. Was it in the street?

Mr. WEITZMAN - It was in the street itself.

Mr. BALL - On the pavement?

Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Anywhere near the curb?

Mr. WEITZMAN - Approximately, oh, I would say 8 to 12 inches from the curb, something like that.

Mr. BALL - Off the record.

(Off record discussion.)

[Bernice Moore]

Correct David, also the Harper fragment was found more towards the centre of the park, i believe...this area i have always found interesting, a possible north or south drain shot from the overpass.....thanks, for now...b David here is a wee bit further in the text from Jerry Dealey...re the south side overpass shot...fyi...b.

''There were 2 Dallas Police Officers stationed on the Underpass, but

they were down at the Main St (middle) and Elm St end. A shooter in

the angle would have been sheltered from them and the 20-30 railroad

workers up there, and have access to the Postal Annex parking lot..''

Edited April 5, 2013 by Bernice Moore

[David Josephs]

On 4/4/2013 at 11:11 AM, Bernice Moore said:

Correct David, also the Harper fragment was found more towards the centre of the park, i believe...this area i have always found interesting, a possible north or south drain shot area as well as possible from the overpass.....thanks, for now...b David here is a wee bit further in the text from Jerry Dealey...re the south side overpass shot...fyi...b.

''There were 2 Dallas Police Officers stationed on the Underpass, but

they were down at the Main St (middle) and Elm St end. A shooter in

the angle would have been sheltered from them and the 20-30 railroad

workers up there, and have access to the Postal Annex parking lot..''

http://www.history-m...Vol21_0376b.htm

This is the map JC White drew to identify his location at the time of the shots:

Mr. BALL. Where were you with reference to Elm. Main or Commerce as they go underneath the overpass?

Mr. WHITE. Approximately at the north curb of Main Street.

Mr. BALL. Approximately the north curb of Main on the corner of the north curb of Main? That would be--

Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. On the west side of the overpass?

Mr. WHITE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. I'm going to get another copy of this map. Let me see. I can use this. Mark this as Exhibit A to your deposition. Now, a diagram that was drawn by a patrolman, Joe Murphy, and he has made some marks and other witnesses have, but don't pay any attention to that. I want you to look at this drawing and take a pen and mark your position on the railroad overpass in a circle, and put your initials beside it.

You have made an "X".

Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And you have initialed J.C. White, is that right?

Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Over the-what would be the west curb of Main?

Mr. WHITE. North curb of Main.

Mr. BALL. The north curb?

Mr. WHITE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. North curb of Main?

Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And west side of the overpass?

Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you see the President's car come into sight?

Mr. WHITE. No, sir; first time I saw it it has passed, passed under the triple underpass.

Mr. BALL. You were too far away to see it, were you?

Mr. WHITE. There was a freight train traveling. There was a train passing between the location I was standing and the area from which the procession was traveling, and-a big long freight train, and I did not see it.

Mr. BALL. You didn't see the procession?

Mr. WHITE. No, sir.

I've attached a composite of the White and Foster Exhibits as to their location... It wouldbe one thing if White accidently says WEST but meant EAST and drew himself on the EAST side of the overpass... But he doesn't.

Q1 - From the Bell frames of the overpass - there is NO TRAIN PASSING at that time.... Was there a train?

Q2 - White drew himself on the EAST side of the tracks yet claims a nonexistent train obscured his view and he does not see the limo until it passes the overpass... there is no train in McIntrye nor anyone identifyable on the overpass over what would be Main. He knows his East from West as he describes seeing the RR workers and Foster on the EAST side of the overpass... WHY IS THIS MAN LYING ABOUT A TRAIN AND WHERE HE WAS?

Mr. BALL - Did you have another officer with you there on duty that day?

Mr. FOSTER - Not on that side. He was on the west side.

Mr. BALL - He was on the west side?

Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - What was his name?

Mr. FOSTER - J.C. White.

Mr. BALL - Do you know exactly where he was when you were at the position you have indicated?

Mr. FOSTER - No; I don't. The only thing I know, he was supposed to be on the west side of the banister.

Mr. BALL - You were looking to the east?

Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. This deposition will be written up and submitted to you for your signature if you wish to sign it, or you can waive your signature. Which do you wish to do?

Mr. WHITE. You said a while ago to him it would be written up like this? Is that correct?

Mr. BALL. No, It will be written up in the form of a deposition.

Mr. WHITE. I will waive.

Mr. BALL. You waive it. Okay. Fine.

Finally, at the same time White's freight train is passing over the overpass Holland and many others describe what they see and hear... does this make any sense? If a train was passing literally directly behind these men, how in the world could they hear ANYTHING let alone describe another sound different from the earlier ones and a puff of smoke... I think we can put to bed that there was NEVER a train crossing the overpass before during or after the assassination...

Why does WHITE lie?

DJ

ps... there is not a single report or radio transmission from White

Mr. HOLLAND - His right hand; and that was the first report that I heard.

Mr. STERN - What did it sound like?

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, it was pretty loud, and naturally, underneath this underpass here it would be a little louder, the concussion from underneath it, it was a pretty loud report, and the car traveled a few yards, and Governor Connally turned in this fashion, like that [indicating] with his hand out, and another report.

Mr. STERN - With his right hand out?

Mr. HOLLAND - Turning to his right.

Mr. STERN - To his right?

Mr. HOLLAND - And another report rang out and he slumped down in his seat, and about that time Mrs. Kennedy was looking at these girls over here [indicating]. The girls standing---now one of them was taking a picture, and the other one was just standing there, and she turned around facing the President and Governor Connally. In other words, she realized what was happening, I guess.

Now, I mean, that was apparently that---she turned back around, and by the time she could get turned around he was hit again along in---I'd say along in here [indicating].

Mr. STERN - How do you know that? Did you observe that?

Mr. HOLLAND - I observed it. It knocked him completely down on the floor. Over, just slumped completely over. That second---

Mr. STERN - Did you hear a third report?

Mr. HOLLAND - I heard a third report and I counted four shots and about the same time all this was happening, and in this group of trees--[indicating].

Mr. STERN - Now, you are indicating trees on the north side of Elm Street?

Mr. HOLLAND - These trees right along here [indicating].

Mr. STERN - Let's mark this Exhibit C and draw a circle around the trees you are referring to.

Mr. HOLLAND - Right in there. (Indicating.)

There was a shot, a report, I don't know whether it was a shot. I can't say that. And a puff of smoke came out about 6 or 8 feet above the ground right out from under those trees. And at just about this location from where I was standing you could see that puff of smoke, like someone had thrown a firecracker, or something out, and that is just about the way it sounded. It wasn't as loud as the previous reports or shots.

Edited May 3, 2017 by David Josephs

[Bill Cheslock]

Excellent Robin. Do you remember a blown up photo of the south knoll?

I believe I saw a Cancellare photo of the left side of Elm Street that was made

much larger than the original, and that it showed what seems to be a human

figure holding a long object that could be a rifle.

This was a few years ago, and I can't remember the source. Then again,

perhaps it was you.

Thanks

Bill

Edited April 5, 2013 by Bill Cheslock

[Robin Unger]

Cancellare 1 Crop

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[Robin Unger]

Altgens 7 Crop

Dillard

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Large crop

Edited April 5, 2013 by Robin Unger