Oswald's Wallet

[Pat Speer]

Other than the pictures on the first page of this topic of two officers holding a wallet at the Tippit scene?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who are those officers? Has anyone talked to them? How do we know it's not Tippit's wallet?

Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but I'm 95% convinced Oswald DID kill Tippit. There are several eyewitnesses to his flight. I'm particularly susceptible to the cabbie's statements (Scoggins, I believe) that the killer was talking to himself, saying "poor dumb cop." To me, this is Oswald, who killed Tippit in attempt to save his own life, and not a cold-blooded assassin.

The idea that some schemers knew Oswald was in the theatre and killed a nearby cop to frame him is just WEAK WEAK WEAK, IMO. I suppose another reason why I believe the killer was Oswald is because the Tippit shooting took place on the DIRECT path to Ruby's place; this just seems like too much a coincidence, particularly if Oswald was not involved.

[Nic Martin]

Other than the pictures on the first page of this topic of two officers holding a wallet at the Tippit scene?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who are those officers? Has anyone talked to them? How do we know it's not Tippit's wallet?

Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but I'm 95% convinced Oswald DID kill Tippit. There are several eyewitnesses to his flight. I'm particularly susceptible to the cabbie's statements (Scoggins, I believe) that the killer was talking to himself, saying "poor dumb cop." To me, this is Oswald, who killed Tippit in attempt to save his own life, and not a cold-blooded assassin.

The idea that some schemers knew Oswald was in the theatre and killed a nearby cop to frame him is just WEAK WEAK WEAK, IMO. I suppose another reason why I believe the killer was Oswald is because the Tippit shooting took place on the DIRECT path to Ruby's place; this just seems like too much a coincidence, particularly if Oswald was not involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would the officers be looking at Tippit's wallet? "Positive ID?" His face wasn't mangled ( per the autopsy photos ), it was his cop car, and they worked with the guy, yet not a single officer on the scene knew him? I highly doubt they were thinking, "Well, this looks like him, and it's his cop car, and he's wearing Tippit's uniform, but there might be some crazy body-switch conspiracy going on, so let's contaminate evidence, dig through Tippit's items, & check the wallet!"

And the "several eyewitnesses" you mention, who are they, and where were they when they saw Oswald pull the trigger, just seeing him once for such a short period of time, yet clear enough to make a positive ID beyond the shadow of a doubt? Wow, why haven't these people spoken up sooner? That pretty much solves one whole mystery aspect right there, what are we doing wasting our time talking about it?

Do I think the Tippit murder was done by Big Bad Men to further frame Oswald? No. How do we know that it wasn't just a coincidence? For all we know, Tippit could have been killed by some two-bit hustler, and the DPD, knowing that a dead cop doesn't look too good, and it'd better be solved fast - connected him to the Crazy Lone Nut that shot Kennedy?

I'm really not trying to sound rude, so forgive me if I do - maybe Oswald DID kill Tippit, but if all I had to go on was the items you presented - I'd be more likely to believe a paraplegic midget shot JFK from the top of a pyramid in Cairo.

[Pat Speer]

As I remember, there was only one witness to the actual shooting who ID'ed Oswald, and she wasn't very reliable. There were, however, a number of witnesses to Oswald's flight, including Johnny Brewer, who followed Oswald to the theater. If Oswald wasn't involved in the killing, why did he hide in the theater? Why did he fight the cops? Were the conspirators so reckless that they dragged a bunch of ordinary Dallas citizens into their GRAND conspiracy, to frame po' lil' Oswald, whom they already had an open and shut case against? I will admit the possibility that Oswald was with someone else, who did the actual shooting, and that Oswald ran away. But that he wasn't even there makes NO sense.

P.S. When I say they had an open and shut case against Oswald, I don't mean to say that Oswald might not have successfully been released on appeal. But to think that a 1963 or 1964 jury would release him for lack of evidence is to live in a pipedream. I mean, he wasn't an ex-football player or anything.

[Mark Stapleton]

Other than the pictures on the first page of this topic of two officers holding a wallet at the Tippit scene?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who are those officers? Has anyone talked to them? How do we know it's not Tippit's wallet?

Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but I'm 95% convinced Oswald DID kill Tippit. There are several eyewitnesses to his flight. I'm particularly susceptible to the cabbie's statements (Scoggins, I believe) that the killer was talking to himself, saying "poor dumb cop." To me, this is Oswald, who killed Tippit in attempt to save his own life, and not a cold-blooded assassin.

The idea that some schemers knew Oswald was in the theatre and killed a nearby cop to frame him is just WEAK WEAK WEAK, IMO. I suppose another reason why I believe the killer was Oswald is because the Tippit shooting took place on the DIRECT path to Ruby's place; this just seems like too much a coincidence, particularly if Oswald was not involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pat,

What about Acquilla Clemons testimony to Mark Lane that she saw two men standing near Tippit's car just before the shooting. She describes the shooter as "kind of short, kind of heavy". Obviously not LHO.

The fact that the WC failed to examine her doesn't detract from her statement, imo. Given the WC's motives, it reinforces it.

[Nic Martin]

As I remember, there was only one witness to the actual shooting who ID'ed Oswald, and she wasn't very reliable.  There were, however, a number of witnesses to Oswald's flight, including Johnny Brewer, who followed Oswald to the theater.  If Oswald wasn't involved in the killing, why did he hide in the theater?  Why did he fight the cops?  Were the conspirators so reckless that they dragged a bunch of ordinary Dallas citizens into their GRAND conspiracy, to frame po' lil' Oswald, whom they already had an open and shut case against? I will admit the possibility that Oswald was with someone else, who did the actual shooting, and that Oswald ran away.  But that he wasn't even there makes NO sense.

P.S. When I say they had an open and shut case against Oswald, I don't mean to say that Oswald might not have successfully been released on appeal.  But to think that a 1963 or 1964 jury would release him for lack of evidence is to live in a pipedream.  I mean, he wasn't an ex-football player or anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So if you're walking quickly, you shot a cop? Well, I must have killed a cop yesterday, because I was attempting to get from one end of a store to the other before the payment department closed. Maybe he had to meet someone ( since he reportedly did sit next to several people in the theater ) and was running late. Maybe he saw the killing, and knew who did it.

Maybe Oswald chickened out. Maybe he talked about the CIA, the government, blah blah blah - but when it came down to actually doing anything, he turned into a complete wimp. It's a possibility. Maybe he fought the cops because he wasn't supposed to have an unlicensed, concealed weapon.

Strange behavior does not a killer make.

[Pat Speer]

So if you're walking quickly, you shot a cop? Well, I must have killed a cop yesterday, because I was attempting to get from one end of a store to the other before the payment department closed. Maybe he had to meet someone ( since he reportedly did sit next to several people in the theater ) and was running late. Maybe he saw the killing, and knew who did it.

Maybe Oswald chickened out. Maybe he talked about the CIA, the government, blah blah blah - but when it came down to actually doing anything, he turned into a complete wimp. It's a possibility. Maybe he fought the cops because he wasn't supposed to have an unlicensed, concealed weapon.

Strange behavior does not a killer make.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're absolutely correct that in a rush to judgment, the DPD could have embellished the evidence to help frame the mysterious commie-loving Oswald for the Tippit killing. Stranger things have happened. But, that's not the contention of this thread, as I understand it. It seems to me that this thread is exploring the possibility or probability that Tippit was killed specifically to frame Oswald, by having Oswald's wallet dropped at the scene of the crime. I don't buy it.

It makes no sense to me that the DPD would refuse to investigate the murder of one of their own, simply to frame a commie who was already going down. It also makes no sense to me that a DPD officer would just so happen to be killed a few blocks away from the movie theater where Oswald was hanging out, and that the men seeking to frame Oswald just happened to be in the neighborhood. So that leads us back to the possibility that someone outside the DPD killed Tippit and framed Oswald, knowing Oswald was nearby. But then we run into the wall that, if there really were two wallets, someone in the DPD knew about it. Read Larry Sneed's interviews with the DPD in No More Silence. These men barely cared about Kennedy compared to how much they wanted to catch Tippit's killer. I just don't believe that Fritz or anyone in the DPD would deliberately look the other way and let Tippit's real killer escape.

Edited August 2, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Nic Martin]

So if you're walking quickly, you shot a cop? Well, I must have killed a cop yesterday, because I was attempting to get from one end of a store to the other before the payment department closed. Maybe he had to meet someone ( since he reportedly did sit next to several people in the theater ) and was running late. Maybe he saw the killing, and knew who did it.

Maybe Oswald chickened out. Maybe he talked about the CIA, the government, blah blah blah - but when it came down to actually doing anything, he turned into a complete wimp. It's a possibility. Maybe he fought the cops because he wasn't supposed to have an unlicensed, concealed weapon.

Strange behavior does not a killer make.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're absolutely correct that in a rush to judgment, the DPD could have framed the mysterious commie-loving Oswald for the Tippit killing. Stranger things have happened. But, that's not the contention of this thread, as I understand it. It seems to me that this thread is exploring the possibility or probability that Tippit was killed specifically to frame Oswald, by having Oswald's wallet dropped at the scene of the crime. I don't buy it.

It makes no sense to me that the DPD would refuse to investigate the murder of one of their own, simply to frame a commie who was already going down. It also makes no sense to me that a DPD officer would just so happen to be killed a few blocks away from the movie theater where Oswald was hanging out, and that the men seeking to frame Oswald just happened to be in the neighborhood. So that leads us back to the possibility that someone outside the DPD killed Tippit and framed Oswald, knowing Oswald was nearby. But then we run into the wall that, if there really were two wallets, someone in the DPD knew about it. Read Larry Sneed's interviews with the DPD in No More Silence. These men barely cared about Kennedy compared to how much they wanted to catch Tippit's killer. I just don't believe that anyone in the DPD would deliberately look the other way and let Tippit's real killer escape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This brings us back to why would it have been Tippit's wallet in the photographs? By your admission, they cared about Tippit's murder, and one of their own - so they'd have known he was a cop, why the need for a check of his wallet? If you're going to suggest they were investigating the idea of robbery as a motive, I don't know of any criminal stupid enough to attempt to rob a uniformed cop in a marked police car in the middle of broad daylight. Even if we took that giant leap, why would he continue shooting him several times AFTER he was already dead? If you'd just robbed a cop, and shot him - you would be running for the hills because killing a cop is really frowned upon, and you'd want to get out of there.

Actually, I agree that it's best to entertain the idea that Oswald killed Tippit, however, I like to have my questions answered before I make statements like they're fact - and I like to question other people's ideas and their statements, I think you learn more that way.

[Mark Knight]

Pat, I appreciate your comments here. I don't think it was inconceivable that Oswald killed Tippitt; in fact, I think it's pretty likely he was there when it happened, whether he was the triggerman or whether it was the short, heavyset man described by a witness or two.

But I'm trying to nail down the wallet situation. IF a wallet with Oswald's ID was actually found at the Tippitt murder scene, but Oswald still had his wallet on him when arrested, some serious questions are raised. If the short heavyset fellow exists, maybe he planted the Oswald wallet without LHO's knowledge...or maybe some other logical scenario exists which would explain it.

Unlike certain others, I'm just looking to get some answers to a question or two that, left unanswered, leave more than a participle or two dangling. I agree that, if Oswald was playing the "international man of mystery" role, various wallets containing various ID's would be a necessity. But the only psuedonym revealed during the investigation was Hidell, which makes Oswald's clandestine role appear pretty lame, IMHO.

At this point, it just doesn't add up.

[Ron Ecker]

Other than the pictures on the first page of this topic of two officers holding a wallet at the Tippit scene?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who are those officers? Has anyone talked to them? How do we know it's not Tippit's wallet?

According to Armstrong's Harvey and Lee, Tippit's wallet was found in the pocket of his uniform at Methodist Hospital.

Also according to Armstrong, an unidentified person handed the wallet containing Oswald and Hidell ID to the first officer on the scene of the murder, reserve sergeant Kenneth Croy, who later gave the wallet to Sergeant Calvin Owens. Armstrong's cited source for this is an interview of Croy by Jones Harris in 2002. Both Croy and Owens gave WC testimony, but neither one said anything about a wallet. Of course they also were not asked about one.

Ron

[Nic Martin]

Other than the pictures on the first page of this topic of two officers holding a wallet at the Tippit scene?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who are those officers? Has anyone talked to them? How do we know it's not Tippit's wallet?

According to Armstrong's Harvey and Lee, Tippit's wallet was found in the pocket of his uniform at Methodist Hospital.

Also according to Armstrong, an unidentified person handed the wallet containing Oswald and Hidell ID to the first officer on the scene of the murder, reserve sergeant Kenneth Croy, who later gave the wallet to Sergeant Calvin Owens. Armstrong's cited source for this is an interview of Croy by Jones Harris in 2002. Both Croy and Owens gave WC testimony, but neither one said anything about a wallet. Of course they also were not asked about one.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Ron, that was information I was looking for - but I'm rearranging my room at the moment and I couldn't find the notebook I have for the Tippit area of this case.

[Greg Parker]

Admittedly, I haven't studied this element of the case, but I seem to remember a DPD officer (was it Hill?) testifying that he opened Oswald's wallet in the car and asked Oswald who Hiddell was, and Oswald told him "you find out." Sorry I don't have more time in which to find the exact testimony, but some of the posts here seem to be of the mind that no one mentioned Hiddell until sometime afterwards, when at least one cop testified he talked to Oswald about Hiddell almost immediately.  As for the wallet found at the Tippit site, I think I've read where this story only surfaced years afterwards, based upon the supposed words of one cop.  What evidence is there supporting that such a wallet was actually found?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is the testimony you seem to recall, Pat:

Mr. BELIN. Now after, from the time you started in motion until the time you called in, do you remember anyone saying anything at all in the car?

Mr. HILL The suspect was asked what his name was.

Mr. BELIN. What did he say?

Mr. HILL. He never did answer. He just sat there.

Mr. BELIN. Was he asked where he lived?

Mr. HILL. That was the second question that was asked the suspect, and he didn't answer it, either.

About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."

Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.

I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card.

And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.

Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell?

Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard.

Mr. BELIN. Was this the first time you learned of the name?

Mr. HILL. Yes; it was.

Neither Carroll nor Walker could recall any Hidell ID being mentioned during the drive to City Hall -- though Walker claimed HE found Hidell ID on Oswald AFTER they arrived.

The other officers -- Bentley and Lyons -- were not interviewed by the WC.

All five made statements on Dec 3, 63, concerning their involvement in the arrest.

Here is what Bentley said in regard to ID: "On the way to City Hall I removed the suspects wallet and obtained his name." No surprise then, that he wasn't called to give evidence. You can peruse these initial statements of all fice officers in the DPD files online. You won't find a mention of "Hidell" in any of them.

I don't have time to get into a lengthy explanation, but having studied the whole Hidell deal... I don't believe Oswald ever used the name as an alias - nor had ID in that name with his own photo attached.

[Steve Thomas]

Mark,

I've read accounts that Oswald's wallet, with the Hidell ID card, was found at the Tippitt murder site; and I've seen accounts that state that Oswald had his wallet on his person when arrested in the Texas Theater.

So...where was the wallet found?  At 10th and Patton, or in Oswald's possession?

Or were two wallets actually found, and the matter intentionally made confusing so as to make investigation all the more difficult?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is an excerpt from John Armstrong's "Harvey and Lee"

http://home.wi.rr.com/harveyandlee/November/November_22.htm

"In his book Assignment: Oswald, James P. Hosty wrote that Dallas Police Captain W.R. Westbrook found a wallet with the identification of both Lee Harvey Oswald and Alek Hidell at the Tippit murder scene and showed it to FBI Agent Bob Barrett. Since Dallas Police Detective Paul Bentley removed Harvey's wallet, which also included the Hidell identification, from his left rear pocket in a squad car after his arrest at the Texas Theater, little was made of that claim. Recently, however, footage from WFAA-TV newsreel film was discovered and published in Dale Myers' book With Malice supporting Hosty's claim that Oswald's wallet was discovered at the sight of the Tippit murder. Here is a still from that footage:

John Armstrong believes that "Lee" killed Tippit and left his wallet at the murder scene as a final act of setting up "Harvey" for the assassination of John Kennedy. The wallet deliberately left at the murder scene probably contained "Lee's" Texas driver's license. "Harvey" could not drive and did not have a license. In his speeches and writings, John has shown how Lee spent months establishing the groundwork to set up his look-alike as a patsy for the murder."

On the other hand, Dale Myers in comments on his book, "With Malice" says,

http://www.jdtippit.com/html/intro_faq.htm

"Did Dallas police find Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene?

No. I first wrote about this allegation in my 1998 book With Malice: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Murder of Officer J.D. Tippit. The story has since been distorted by conspiracy theorists peddling the theory that Oswald was framed for the Tippit murder by unseen forces.

While my investigation into the allegation that Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit murder scene is too detailed to repeat in this limited format (see With Malice, pp.287-304), the essential elements are this:

FBI agent Robert M. Barrett observed Dallas police handling a wallet at the Tippit murder scene shortly before Oswald's arrest. WFAA-TV news footage shot at the scene supports this basic fact. Barrett recalled that Dallas police Captain W.R. Westbrook asked him at the scene whether he knew a "Lee Harvey Oswald" or an "Alek Hidell?" While Barrett assumed the names were taken from identification in the wallet, he never saw the identification or handled the wallet.

Despite Barrett's credibilty, his account runs counter to the documented version of events which show that Oswald's wallet was removed from his pants pocket following his arrest at the Texas Theater. Identification in the names "Oswald" and "Hidell" were discovered at that time.

A comparison of the wallet filmed at the Tippit murder scene by WFAA-TV and the wallet removed from Oswald's pocket shows the two wallets to be similar in style, but not identical. The only thing connecting Oswald to the wallet filmed by WFAA-TV is Barrett's recollection that Captain Westbrook asked him about the names "Oswald" and "Hidell" while at the shooting scene. Yet the circumstances surrounding the discovery of the Oswald/Hidell identification suggests that Barrett was asked the questions at City Hall, long after Oswald's arrest, not at the shooting scene. (See With Malice)

Conspiracy critics have since taken the facts I presented in With Malice and spun them into a series of distortions and half-truths that have transformed the wallet filmed by WFAA-TV as a "plant," designed to frame Oswald for Tippit's murder. The suggestion is preposterous and flies in the face of an avalanche of indisputable facts that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Oswald murdered Tippit."

So, I guess it's a tossup whether you want to believe that Barrett was told that at the scene, or not until later at the station.

Steve Thomas

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

So if you're walking quickly, you shot a cop? Well, I must have killed a cop yesterday, because I was attempting to get from one end of a store to the other before the payment department closed. Maybe he had to meet someone ( since he reportedly did sit next to several people in the theater ) and was running late. Maybe he saw the killing, and knew who did it.

Maybe Oswald chickened out. Maybe he talked about the CIA, the government, blah blah blah - but when it came down to actually doing anything, he turned into a complete wimp. It's a possibility. Maybe he fought the cops because he wasn't supposed to have an unlicensed, concealed weapon.

Strange behavior does not a killer make.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're absolutely correct that in a rush to judgment, the DPD could have embellished the evidence to help frame the mysterious commie-loving Oswald for the Tippit killing. Stranger things have happened. But, that's not the contention of this thread, as I understand it. It seems to me that this thread is exploring the possibility or probability that Tippit was killed specifically to frame Oswald, by having Oswald's wallet dropped at the scene of the crime. I don't buy it.

No, Pat, you're entirely correct that DPD didn't need to embellish or tamper with the "evidence" suggesting Oswald killed Tippitt. Bear in mind Julia Postal's statement that she heard an officer refer to Oswald by name prior to the DPD having had the chance to place Oswald in the car and frisk him for ID, which is the official chronology of events. If Postal's comment was accurate, clearly DPD knew the suspect's identity before arriving. It has been suggested that this was a result of the non-event known as Truly's TSBD "showup," but that won't wash for a variety of common-sense reasons that you can suss out in a heartbeat, so I won't itemize them. I suggest it is far likelier that DPD knew who they were looking for based upon the ID left behind at the Tippitt murder scene.

It makes no sense to me that the DPD would refuse to investigate the murder of one of their own, simply to frame a commie who was already going down.

There was no DPD "frame" involved at all. They found a wallet at the Tippitt murder scene, and found inside it the ID of the man who, obviously, instantly became the leading suspect in that cop's demise. What's to investigate? It must have struck them as an absolute 'slam dunk.'

Only when the suspect was arrested, and was found to be carrying his own wallet, did Fritz smell something suspect. Which is precisely why he segregated the Tippitt murder scene wallet from the other evidence that was passed onto FBI that very day. He kept it quarantined along with the third shell and the Hosty data from Oswald's book, suggesting to my mind that Fritz retained only that evidence which he thought might be "problematic."

After the rifle had been traced to "Hidell" at Oswald's PO box, and after Oswald was dead, the "Hidell" ID made its way from the Tippitt wallet into the Oswald wallet. At this juncture, it was less important to DPD personnel to investigate who killed "one of their own" than it was to demonstrate that the suspect killed while in their custody was not an innocent man. And, despite what I contend were Fritz's own well-based suspicions that something wasn't right about this scenario, there was sufficient prima facie evidence for Oswald's guilt in the Tippitt murder. Case closed.

I note that some of your demurral is based upon DPD testimony for the WC. Please note that this testimony contains observations never before offered, in the officers' individual written statements, or in their accounts to the local media made that same day. On the day of the event, there was no mention of "Hidell" whatsoever, a rather startling omission. While it cannot be construed as proof of absolute guilt, the use of an alias suggests that the person using the alias is up to something nefarious. Surely, when itemizing their reasons for suspecting Oswald, as DPD personnel and DA Henry Wade did throughout the entire weekend, presumably one of them would have mentioned the fact that this man had used an alias. If memory serves, they certainly mentioned to the media that he had rented his boarding house room under an alias. Why not mention at the same time that he had ID under an assumed name on his person when arrested? That they did not do so contemporaneously undermines the believability of what they later offered the WC.

It also makes no sense to me that a DPD officer would just so happen to be killed a few blocks away from the movie theater where Oswald was hanging out, and that the men seeking to frame Oswald just happened to be in the neighborhood.

My hypothesis is that Oswald wasn't intended to be at large at all, but was to have vanished. If so, in order to ensure that this transpired, somebody must have been tasked with tailing Oswald. Consequently, this isn't a matter of somebody who "just happened to be in the hood." Recall also that when police responded to the call from the theatre, they immediately went to the balcony, as though directed there. But Postal's call to DPD mentioned nothing about the balcony, so what clue led them to suspect he was there? Further recall, a patron of the theatre most accommodatingly directed Nick McDonald to the exact seat and row in the theatre where the suspect could be found, and this man wasn't Johnny Brewer. Again, there is sufficient evidence to indicate that somebody was influencing DPD actions, and must have been observing Oswald in order to do so.

So that leads us back to the possibility that someone outside the DPD killed Tippit and framed Oswald, knowing Oswald was nearby.

I suggest that Oswald's proximity to the Tippitt murder scene was immaterial to the plans, and likely even contrary to the plans. With Tippitt's murder, and the convenient placement of the Oswald/Hidell wallet there, there was sufficient cause for DPD to believe they knew who had done the deed.

Moreover, the overwhelming response to the Texas Theatre - 16 cops - suggests that they knew something more than Postal had told them, which was only that a guy had slipped in without buying a ticket. Why the convergence of so many cops at this scene? Contrast and compare this with the police response when they were informed that a suspect in the Tippitt murder [not merely a scofflaw who hadn't bought a movie ticket] had run into a local library and a nearby church. Were there 16 cops at either of those locations when police were directed there and seeking a killer?

But then we run into the wall that, if there really were two wallets, someone in the DPD knew about it.

Fritz is the only DPD officer I know of who had to have known about more than one wallet, which is why he failed to turn one of them over the FBI that day. Those who saw a wallet at the Tippitt murder scene were not present when Oswald was frisked in the car on the way to HQ, and those in the car were not present when the wallet was found at the Tippitt crime scene. Some DPD officer other than Fritz may have known about the second wallet, but I've seen no indication that this was so, to date.

Read Larry Sneed's interviews with the DPD in No More Silence. These men barely cared about Kennedy compared to how much they wanted to catch Tippit's killer. I just don't believe that Fritz or anyone in the DPD would deliberately look the other way and let Tippit's real killer escape.

Again, Pat, with a wallet at the Tippitt murder scene to implicate Oswald, and Oswald's subsequent arrest, it must have seemed as though they had closed the case with lightning speed. If Fritz had any reservations or suspicions about what had actually transpired based solely upon the second wallet being "problematic," I'm sure it evaporated once Oswald was dead. At that juncture, there were more pressing concerns, such as cinching the case against Oswald as the guilty party in both crimes, lest the world assume DPD had just allowed an innocent man to die while in its custody.

Fritz had no reason to necessarily suspect that Oswald hadn't killed Tippitt. He only had to puzzle out why a man would drop a wallet at the crime scene, and then still have one on him when arrested 30-40 minutes later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Pat Speer]

Robert, your post is well-taken. Still, I'm curious as to why you think Tippit was killed and by whom, and why a man looking exactly like Oswald emptying shells from a revolver would mutter "poor dumb cop" while walking in the direction of the Texas Theater. It appears you're willing to believe second hand info 20 or 30 years after the fact--the word of one woman at the Theater--against the cumulative testimony of many others, who said they did not know Oswald's name until after he was dragged into the car. Far beyond just a case of Fritz making evidence go away, you're calling a number of officers perjurers--including Hill--who said he saw the Hidell ID while in the car.

Isn't it a lot more likely that the wallet at the Tippit site was Tippit's (if it is even a wallet in the photo) and that a message from the station came out to the patrol car letting them know they'd apprehended a suspect named Lee Harvey Oswald, and that FBI Agent Bartlett ASSUMED it was Oswald's wallet? How do we know this supposed wallet-sighting occurred BEFORE Oswald was arrested? When you take into account that the DPD's top forensics and crime scene investigators would have been at the TSBD, it's not hard to imagine that the Tippit crime scene would have been closed off for hours. Do we have Bartlett's statements as to the timeline of his heading out to the Tippit site and how long he stayed there? It's at least a 10 minute drive from downtown. He might very well have not even been there before Oswald was arrested. I certainly have my doubts that an FBI agent would leave the site of a Presidential assassination and respond to a cop-killing (not in his jurisdiction) BEFORE there was any awareness of a connection between the two crimes.

Edited August 2, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Pat Speer]

As to Hosty's assertion the wallet was found at the Tippit scene, I must warn fellow researchers NOT to trust the written words of writers like Hosty, usually working with ghost writers, when it comes to elements of the assassination that they personally did not witness. Most of the actual participants of the assassination know less about the assassination than the average researcher on this forum. (And think about how often we are wrong!) By way of example, both Leslie Midgely, who led CBS on 2 (or is it 3) investigations into the assassination and John Connally assert in their various memoirs that the magic bullet was found in the limousine. Are we to assume from this that both men were aware that the SS found the bullet and placed it on the stretcher? No. Neither man asserted such a thing (although I believe that is what happened.) They (or their ghost writers) just remembered it wrong.