NSA/Pentagon and the Assassination of JFK

[David Talbot]

Does anyone have any information that suggests that the NSA or Pentagon had any involvement in the assassination of JFK?

[Mark Knight]

There is a lot of information that suggests NSA or other military involvement.

The sticky point is in proving any of it.

[Al Carrier]

There is a lot of information that suggests NSA or other military involvement.

The sticky point is in proving any of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark and David,

I posses two cables sent through the NSA to Col. Conein at the Saigon Station in November 2, 1963 and November 25, 1963 asking the whereabouts of Major Lopez of Laos and the second asking the whereabouts of Major Lopez and Team 5. I have tracked down who Major Lopez actually was and am confident he is the same as Pakse Base Man and the man on the lamp post in DP at the time of the assassination. This individual has been deceased for since the mid-eighties. Team 5 I have been tracking through association in both activity and in when they met their demise within a month or so of the assassination. This is educated speculation, by the most part, but it makes a hell of an arguement. I will not release the docs or the identities I am puting into place until 1) I can work through the origin/author of the cables 2) I am more confident in the Team 5 personnel identity.

I have issues with smearing the names of individuals who were likely involved at this level, even if the evidence points rather clearly at them. The hands-on shooters in the assassination were merely carrying out their assignment and had no choice but to do so, considering their military obligation and more so what would become of them if they backed out. IMHO, it didn't matter because they were eliminated shortly after anyway, except for the stager, AKA Major Lopez.

Al

[Jim Root]

David

I am currently (and have been for the past year) tracking down more and more information about John B. Hurt, a Japanese linguist that retired from the NSA in August of 1963. Are you familier with the "Raleigh Call" (provides a reason for the attraction to the name---needless to say the place of employment is provacative as well)?

This person first came to my attention about 5-6 years ago when I discovered a loose association between him and Edwin Walker that may have occured in 1935 and continued to 1941. The potential for this association has directed my research into the life of Edwin Walker from time to time. Although I have, as yet, not proven that they in fact knew each other, I have found that by following the signals intelligence angle Walkers career in intelligence has become much clearer (more than mere coincidence in my opinion).

I have also been provided with unconfirmed information recently that Harrod Miller, a man known to be factually associated with NSA's John B. Hurt, visited Edwin Walker in the days following the assassination of JFK. If true, this would suggest an interesting circle: Walker to Hurt, Hurt to Miller, Miller to Walker. Followed by Hurt to Walker, Walker to Oswald (see Serendipity article), Oswald to Hurt.

Only recently have I made contact with family member of John B. Hurt

(see previous posts on this subject) and they have been more than helpful in expanding my information base about this man. For example I received information that indicated that Hurt was fluent in Russian as well as Japanese (perhaps explaining his longevity within the NSA). When querried about this expertise in Russian, an NSA spokesperson took nearly a month to respond. The response I received stated, in effect, that they could not confirm that he spoke Russian (which leads me to speculate that he was working on projects requiring this skill).

Hurt family members have suggested that all of the work done since 1946 by Hurt is still classified to this day. A family member noted their frustration in being unable to uncover any information about the cold war work of John Hurt.

Points of interest:

John Hurts work dealing with the breaking of the Japanese diplomatic codes remained classified till after his death in 1966. Would this provide a reason to keep the name "John Hurt" out of the Warren Report? A name that only surfaced during the HSCA hearings (after the "Magic".

Is it possible that since John B. Hurt left the United States in the days following his retirement (two months before the assassiantion of JFK) any person who would have a "need/reason" to contact this John Hurt might find a disconnected number (requiring the use of operators to attempt to locate a phone number for any John Hurt in a particular geographical area)? Is this an explanation for what did in fact occur?

The NSA itself was still a classified agency, as I understand it, in 1963. Would associating a name directly linked to this classified agency with the assassination of JFK be a "bombshell?"

Was Oswalds trip to Russia associated with codebreaking? The Venona Project, etc.? Was John B. Hurt associatated with the Venona Project? I find the possibility intriguing and a clearly understandable explanation for an organized governmental coverup of an assassination that involved a man connected to this type of activity (Oswald). Would a person/persons who had knowledge of this type of information be able to "play the cards" in such a way as to "stack the deck" toward a successful murder of the President of the United States?

For myself I have named this person/persons "the Big Fish." Please refer to previous posts (leading to a Pentagon connection).

Jim Root

[Antti Hynonen]

Jim Root Posted Yesterday, 06:00 PM

  David

I am currently (and have been for the past year) tracking down more and more information about John B. Hurt, a Japanese linguist that retired from the NSA in August of 1963. Are you familier with the "Raleigh Call" (provides a reason for the attraction to the name---needless to say the place of employment is provacative as well)?

This person first came to my attention about 5-6 years ago when I discovered a loose association between him and Edwin Walker that may have occured in 1935 and continued to 1941. The potential for this association has directed my research into the life of Edwin Walker from time to time. Although I have, as yet, not proven that they in fact knew each other, I have found that by following the signals intelligence angle Walkers career in intelligence has become much clearer (more than mere coincidence in my opinion).

I have also been provided with unconfirmed information recently that Harrod Miller, a man known to be factually associated with NSA's John B. Hurt, visited Edwin Walker in the days following the assassination of JFK. If true, this would suggest an interesting circle: Walker to Hurt, Hurt to Miller, Miller to Walker. Followed by Hurt to Walker, Walker to Oswald (see Serendipity article), Oswald to Hurt.

Only recently have I made contact with family member of John B. Hurt

(see previous posts on this subject) and they have been more than helpful in expanding my information base about this man. For example I received information that indicated that Hurt was fluent in Russian as well as Japanese (perhaps explaining his longevity within the NSA). When querried about this expertise in Russian, an NSA spokesperson took nearly a month to respond. The response I received stated, in effect, that they could not confirm that he spoke Russian (which leads me to speculate that he was working on projects requiring this skill).

Hurt family members have suggested that all of the work done since 1946 by Hurt is still classified to this day. A family member noted their frustration in being unable to uncover any information about the cold war work of John Hurt.

Points of interest:

John Hurts work dealing with the breaking of the Japanese diplomatic codes remained classified till after his death in 1966. Would this provide a reason to keep the name "John Hurt" out of the Warren Report? A name that only surfaced during the HSCA hearings (after the "Magic".

Is it possible that since John B. Hurt left the United States in the days following his retirement (two months before the assassiantion of JFK) any person who would have a "need/reason" to contact this John Hurt might find a disconnected number (requiring the use of operators to attempt to locate a phone number for any John Hurt in a particular geographical area)? Is this an explanation for what did in fact occur?

The NSA itself was still a classified agency, as I understand it, in 1963. Would associating a name directly linked to this classified agency with the assassination of JFK be a "bombshell?"

Was Oswalds trip to Russia associated with codebreaking? The Venona Project, etc.? Was John B. Hurt associatated with the Venona Project? I find the possibility intriguing and a clearly understandable explanation for an organized governmental coverup of an assassination that involved a man connected to this type of activity (Oswald). Would a person/persons who had knowledge of this type of information be able to "play the cards" in such a way as to "stack the deck" toward a successful murder of the President of the United States?

For myself I have named this person/persons "the Big Fish." Please refer to previous posts (leading to a Pentagon connection).

Jim Root

Jim,

I may have said this before, but here it is again. In the JFK, case not many things make sense. One of the few theories that seem entirely possible though, is the scenario such as you presented here, involving the John Hurt and Ed Walker connections to the case.

Edited August 3, 2005 by Antti Hynonen

[Gerry Hemming]

There is a lot of information that suggests NSA or other military involvement.

The sticky point is in proving any of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark and David,

I posses two cables sent through the NSA to Col. Conein at the Saigon Station in November 2, 1963 and November 25, 1963 asking the whereabouts of Major Lopez of Laos and the second asking the whereabouts of Major Lopez and Team 5. I have tracked down who Major Lopez actually was and am confident he is the same as Pakse Base Man and the man on the lamp post in DP at the time of the assassination. This individual has been deceased for since the mid-eighties. Team 5 I have been tracking through association in both activity and in when they met their demise within a month or so of the assassination. This is educated speculation, by the most part, but it makes a hell of an arguement. I will not release the docs or the identities I am puting into place until 1) I can work through the origin/author of the cables 2) I am more confident in the Team 5 personnel identity.

I have issues with smearing the names of individuals who were likely involved at this level, even if the evidence points rather clearly at them. The hands-on shooters in the assassination were merely carrying out their assignment and had no choice but to do so, considering their military obligation and more so what would become of them if they backed out. IMHO, it didn't matter because they were eliminated shortly after anyway, except for the stager, AKA Major Lopez.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

During that same May '75 trip to DC I met with Lou Conein at the then DEA HQ on NW "K" Street, and gave him warning that his Op with Quantum Corp. {Mitch Wer Bell, et al.] was about to be blown by moles and specific former boy-friends of the late "Dame" J. Edgar Hoover. I had recruited Mitch III for drug interdiction Ops during 1971 [while a partner in Parabellum Corp.] after the failure of "Operation Eagle" (The A.G. had screwed up on Title III wiretap warrants). I predicted to Conein that possible indictments might might be in their future, and indeed came down that December.

I was repeatedly warned to stay away from the "Marijuana Watergate" defense team, and threatened with physical or legal disabilities.

Five hours after I was sworn in as a defense witness before federal Dist. Judge Peter Fay, I was secretly indicted that afternoon. Days later, upon entering the courthouse to testify, I was arrested by the DEA and jailed.

I called Conein as a defense witness [Pro Se with assistance of counsel] and personally asked him one last question: "....did you receive funds from Madame Nhu before your meeting with her at the Murchison Ranch on the afternoon of November 22nd, 1963...?" The federal Prosecutor objected to the question and Judge Wm. Hoeveler sustained same -- I then stated "...no further questions for this witness Your Honor."

I have never suggested that Conein was part of the JFK murder team, despite insider knowledge of his failing to prevent the killing of Madame Nhu's husband and his brother Diem -- which he was ordered to do by RFK as a part of the coup in Saigon.

Conein was MACV/SOG, and even an intercepted CIA cable [by NSA, which doesn't do cables] wouldn't contain Conein's or "Lopez's??" actual or alias names, but would use their cryptonyms in ALL cases. There were no SOG teams ever at Pak hse, but always worked the "Lima Sites", and definitely never went near Vientianne. One of the "Solos" [Diesel, Cadillac, etc. teams] Colonels who used Lopez, Gomez and other alias IDs is retired here in Fayetteville, NC. He was a combatant member of Brigade 2506 at Playa Giron, and did four tours in the "Nam". He retired from duty in Puerto Rico, and to this day remains a very bitter man.

As an aside, Gen. V. "Brute" Krulak took a fall off a ladder last week at his home near San Diego, but is recovering nicely. As to his identifying Lansdale as the "suit" passing by the "tramps", Krulak denies ever even hinting at said statement, and moreover indicated that if you might notice, that individual is ducking his LEFT arm to his rear !! Lansdale's right arm was the drooping disabled one, not his left arm !! When Dale Dye came out from the wardrobe crew in a nice suit [filming "JFK"] we all razzed the hell out of him, because his normal attire was "grunge". Due to our operating without a working script a day in advance, I didn't discover what that scene represented until I saw the movie months later. Had I know, I would have warned Oliver against shooting that scenario, as I did on many occasions -- resulting in more than a few shouting matches.

As I told one of the LHO monitors who was at the "Odio Meet" [in Miami during the 3rd week of June last]; "....screw those who speculate and point fingers...they have never even spoken with any of the so-called witnesses, much less any of the real life personalities who were around and somewhat near these events....just a bunch of dreamers and book readers who cite as authority the very same WC documents which they also claim are false and part of the cover-up". "....How easy they identify "faces-in-the-crowds" and instead of asking if indeed this is Conein, Vidal, Hargraves, Sturgis, Hunt, Judge Crater, Cock Robin, Edward VIII....why don't they examine whether if these dudes were there, was it with hostile intent, and if not...who ORDERED or LURED them there in the first place??" "...what kind of fools would pull off the "Crime-of-the-Century" and be standing around the crime scene like a bunch of pyromaniac/arsonists at a burning building!!"

At least Lt. Al hesitates to make "accusations' of murder that might affect the surviving family members of these men, much less destroy their reputations by innuendo and gross fantasizing. Let us get real, and take a little time to first learn some of the "tradecraft"; and then one might go for the "15-seconds-of-fame" Sherlock Holmes/Dickless Tracy routine.

Since May of this year, seven different websites [including the Cuban Commie Party's Granma Int'l] have pointed the finger directly at me by name...as one of the operators involved in 11/22/63. Not surprisingly, since I had just finished taking specific affidavits from inside Cuba, and from expatriates who were previously associated with the Chief of the Americas Division of the DSE, and later the same at DGI -- showing that Manuel "Barba Roja" Pineiro took specific affirmative actions to protect his boss Fidel from the guns/bombs/-poisons of Bobby Kennedy's assassins.

Those who were charged with the protection of RFK [Cuban Exiles], and lived with him for months, remain mostly ignorant of the rantings and ravings of the wing-nut amatuer conspiracy theorists who abound on the Internet and library shelves. What has genuinely delayed the exposure of the true facts of the most critical matters is that these members of RFK's teams carry a heavy burden of guilt.....that some of "their own" were either "doubled" or careless with Intelligence.

I seriously doubt that Fidel even knew anything of the counter-ops being carried out to save his life. Che found out, and that with the Camilo Cienfuegos question, caused him to leave Cuba in disgust. I was part of the team tasked to snatch Che alive in the Congo during 1966 -- from our base on Ascension Island, and posing as construction workers with two SEAL Teams. I was one of the few who had been along-side Che in the old days, close enough to recognize his figure and voice if we had gotten close to him before the "Battle of Baraka" (Congo) near the shore of Lake Tanganyika. Little did we know that he had escaped across the lake to Burundi/Uganda side aboard a Chi-Com barge in the middle of one night.

I turned down the Bolivia Op during '67, and instead signed up for a 'Nam tour with Dept. of State/Public Safety -- which was torpedoed by Garrison's threats to extradite both me and Bob Brown from in-country, as he was doing with Hall, Seymour, and Howard.

Most of you have really done some fine historical work, and the analysis is fantastic -- but get real on some of the ad-homos attacks, and get thee to College Park, Maryland before you get to the opportunity to interview somebody with a pulse who was there !!

Velly intellesting !! Keep up with the great work, and quit worrying about the nasty "Troika" of Tim, Russo, and Hemming -- weez jus hangin' out folks.

Later,

GPH

[Ron Ecker]

I called Conein as a defense witness [Pro Se with assistance of counsel] and personally asked him one last question: "....did you receive funds from Madame Nhu before your meeting with her at the Murchison Ranch on the afternoon of November 22nd, 1963...?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gerry,

It would appear from the question that you had knowledge of such a meeting and its purpose. Could you tell us about it?

Conein was MACV/SOG, and even an intercepted CIA cable [by NSA, which doesn't do cables] wouldn't contain Conein's or "Lopez's??" actual or alias names

[/quote}

I thought the "NSA" seemed odd too, and wondered if Al meant DIA. But then Al is the one with the cables.

Lansdale's right arm was the drooping disabled one, not his left arm !!

While the man may be ducking his left arm as he goes by the tramps, it still looks to me like his right shoulder is lower than the left, as was Lansdale's (and Maxwell Taylor's).

How easy they identify "faces-in-the-crowds" and instead of asking if indeed this is Conein, Vidal, Hargraves, Sturgis, Hunt, Judge Crater, Cock Robin, Edward VIII....why don't they examine whether if these dudes were there, was it with hostile intent, and if not...who ORDERED or LURED them there in the first place??" "...what kind of fools would pull off the "Crime-of-the-Century" and be standing around the crime scene like a bunch of pyromaniac/arsonists at a burning building!!"

Why do you think Rip Robertson or his body double was there? Also, on the fellow at Main and Houston who resembles you: I read somewhere that you said the man's name was John Orr. Could you elaborate on that (or on whoever he was)?

Ron

[Gerry Hemming]

I called Conein as a defense witness [Pro Se with assistance of counsel] and personally asked him one last question: "....did you receive funds from Madame Nhu before your meeting with her at the Murchison Ranch on the afternoon of November 22nd, 1963...?"

Gerry,

It would appear from the question that you had knowledge of such a meeting and its purpose. Could you tell us about it?

Conein was MACV/SOG, and even an intercepted CIA cable [by NSA, which doesn't do cables] wouldn't contain Conein's or "Lopez's??" actual or alias names

[/quote}

I thought the "NSA" seemed odd too, and wondered if Al meant DIA. But then Al is the one with the cables.

Lansdale's right arm was the drooping disabled one, not his left arm !!

While the man may be ducking his left arm as he goes by the tramps, it still looks to me like his right shoulder is lower than the left, as was Lansdale's (and Maxwell Taylor's).

How easy they identify "faces-in-the-crowds" and instead of asking if indeed this is Conein, Vidal, Hargraves, Sturgis, Hunt, Judge Crater, Cock Robin, Edward VIII....why don't they examine whether if these dudes were there, was it with hostile intent, and if not...who ORDERED or LURED them there in the first place??" "...what kind of fools would pull off the "Crime-of-the-Century" and be standing around the crime scene like a bunch of pyromaniac/arsonists at a burning building!!"

Why do you think Rip Robertson or his body double was there? Also, on the fellow at Main and Houston who resembles you: I read somewhere that you said the man's name was John Orr. Could you elaborate on that (or on whoever he was)?

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron:

I have been up since 10:00 AM yesterday, and am going to hit the sack. Maybe tomorrow night "inshalla"!!

El Hajji Hemm

____________________________________

[John Simkin]

Velly intellesting !!  Keep up with the great work, and quit worrying about the nasty "Troika" of Tim, Russo, and Hemming -- weez jus hangin' out folks.

Not sure what you mean by this? As someone living in the UK, could you explain what "jus hangin' out" means. It might help me understand what Tim is up to.

[Pat Speer]

I have never suggested that Conein was part of the JFK murder team, despite insider knowledge of his failing to prevent the killing of Madame Nhu's husband and his brother Diem -- which he was ordered to do by RFK as a part of the coup in Saigon.

Later,

GPH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Gerry, for another colorful post. Am wondering if you can cite your source for the contention that RFK personally ordered Conein to allow the assassination to take place, as this is news to me. There are numerous references to JFK's naivete in believing the coup could take place without Diem and his brothers being killed. From what I can gather, the man mostly at fault was Lodge, who urged the coup and then failed to act when Kennedy expressed second thoughts. According to many sources, Lodge even promised one of Diem's brothers safe passage before turning him over to his assassins. Lodge is also reported to have mocked Kennedy's shock afterwards. Lodge was, of course, at home with coup d'etats and assassination due to his family's ties to United Fruit.

According to Ellen J. Hammer's A Death in November, Bobby Kennedy was against the coup, and said that JFK was gonna fire Lodge as soon as Lodge got back to Washington, which would have been on the Sunday after Dallas. (Instead, Lodge spoke to Johnson, told hm the coup had failed and that Vietnam was going to hell in a handbasket. Shortly thereafter Lodge urged the bombing of North Vietnam, resigned his ambassadorship, and ran for President against Johnson.) While Ms. Hammer's book is my source for much of the material damaging to Lodge, McNamara's In Retrospect and the Church Committee reports place Lodge at the center of these intrigues as well.

In closing, a review on the back of Ms. Hammer's book may be relevant. It says "Sets many of the events in proper perspective..The most factual and best effort on Vietnam leading up the "death in November" that has been published.."--Lucien Conein.

It seems to me that it was Lodge who told Conein not to interfere, and not RFK.

[Al Carrier]

At least Lt. Al hesitates to make "accusations' of murder that might affect the surviving family members of these men, much less destroy their reputations by innuendo and gross fantasizing.  Let us get real, and take a little time to first learn some of the "tradecraft"; and then one might go for the "15-seconds-of-fame" Sherlock Holmes/Dickless Tracy routine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again you are speaking without understanding the content or the researcher. I possess a copy of the file on our "Major Lopez" and have tracked down the family the deceased man. I also hold three photos of him at various times in his career. I keep quiet about his identity and do not release the file info out of respect to his family and consideration that he acted out of duty and in reality likely had no choice.

You can ramble on about your supposed escapades all you want and demean others who you know nothing of, but if you would look into my background, you will find that I am not a dupe SOF or wanna-be, but have lived it and have an understanding of how mechanics are inserted, and eventually eliminated.

I have a trail of Conein to Siragusa to eventually Fernandez and Hull that intertwines with our topic and me in a roundabout way. That is my motivation and you can spout all you want about your supposed past.

The ball is in your court!

Al

[Stuart Wexler]

At least Lt. Al hesitates to make "accusations' of murder that might affect the surviving family members of these men, much less destroy their reputations by innuendo and gross fantasizing.  Let us get real, and take a little time to first learn some of the "tradecraft"; and then one might go for the "15-seconds-of-fame" Sherlock Holmes/Dickless Tracy routine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again you are speaking without understanding the content or the researcher. I possess a copy of the file on our "Major Lopez" and have tracked down the family the deceased man. I also hold three photos of him at various times in his career. I keep quiet about his identity and do not release the file info out of respect to his family and consideration that he acted out of duty and in reality likely had no choice.

You can ramble on about your supposed escapades all you want and demean others who you know nothing of, but if you would look into my background, you will find that I am not a dupe SOF or wanna-be, but have lived it and have an understanding of how mechanics are inserted, and eventually eliminated.

I have a trail of Conein to Siragusa to eventually Fernandez and Hull that intertwines with our topic and me in a roundabout way. That is my motivation and you can spout all you want about your supposed past.

The ball is in your court!

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Al,

Out of curiosity: how did you obtain the file?

-Stu

[Gerry Hemming]

Velly intellesting !!  Keep up with the great work, and quit worrying about the nasty "Troika" of Tim, Russo, and Hemming -- weez jus hangin' out folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure what you mean by this? As someone living in the UK, could you explain what "jus hangin' out" means. It might help me understand what Tim is up to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John:

"Hanging Out" is street slang here in the American Colonies. It means a casual relationship, lolling about, gathering together to smoke dope, or as I and my brother Bob used to say [in the legal field] "..By god that 'Mopery'... that Dude should be indicted under the old English Common Law for committing 'Felonious Mopery'..." (LOL)

Of course, during those ancient times, and here in the colonies, all 79 statutory felonies were "Capital Crimes", and thus involved the death penalty.

I have never met personally with Tim Gratz, but we have spoken on the telephone quite frequently -- and as he will tell, I have been heard to shout at him occasionally when he mis-hears one of my remarks. This is routinely followed by my suggesting that he borrow a goddamn tape recorder so that he can review correctly what the hell I have been saying.

I have reviewed ALL of his posts, and I am at a loss as to how somebody can "Hi Jack" a thread on a forum which purports to be an open debate -- have I got the rules wrong pardner??

During '94 I turned down Gus Russo's [WGBH/TV "Frontline" Series], Mike Sullivan's, and David Fanning's offer to hire onto the LHO Project, principally because I had received a "Heads-Up" that it would track once again the LHO single shooter/lone-nut -- Warren Comm'n cover-up theme; and I didn't want to be a part of that crap, nor have my name connected to it.

However, I tire greatly when amatuers ["never been there, never served, and now know everything"] denounce "Live by the Sword" without having ever read the book -- and for those that indeed have: fail to specifically cite any evidence contrary to any of the 500+ interview statements, most of which had never been in the public domain prior thereto.

I have [in person & via telephone] strongly disagreed with Gus on his various conclusions; most of which are premature -- or indicate an ignorance of tradecraft, firearms, ballistices [Al Carrier's experise in same is notable]; and most importantly; any reliance upon the fabricated FBI documents and perjured [or altered testimony] of "alleged" witnesses.

For example: The phony copy of my HSCA deposition which is posted on the web. I suggested that one might sit down and read same at a slow pace, and then guess whether this covers the 7+ hours I was inside the Grand Jury chambers -- without even one break to pee ??!!

The transcript shows what time we started and what time the deposition ended. What pisses off my Brother Bob is that he sat outside in the marbled hallway getting slivers up his bum, sitting on a wooden bench until the Sun went down. I had told both Fonzi and Gonzalez [at our Miami offices during frequent visits] that this HSCA crap was going to be just another attempt at damage control by the government pogues and moles who dreaded exposure.

Now that we have Bob Baer in the Forum, maybe somebody might present some kind of evidence as to why a Government Intelligence Agency, which; just like our armed forces and police, is endlessly villified by critics who have been spoon fed propaganda eminating from enemies of Western Civilization.

I testified for the '75 Church Committee, refused to testify for both the Rockefeller and Tower Committees, knowing that when it came time to read the final report -- there would be absolutely nothing contained therein which would stand the test of a courtroom. Am I defending the CIA ?? Hardly, I was the one that went numerous times to "The House Select Committee on Un-American Activities" [HSCUA]-- which the press [and Pat called HUAC]; "The Subversive Activities Control Board", and other entities during 1962 and 1963.

Why ?? To complain about the CIA and FBI use of Castro-Cuban, American, and European double-agents as snitches against exile operators. To denounce those agencies as having been penetrated by "Moles" and traitors. All for naught !!

The only politicos who attempted some corrective action were: Senators Goldwater, Thurmond, Keating, et al. and Representatives like Dante Fascell, whose brother-in-law [Austin Porfiri] was a construction contractor that I did work for.

One would assume that after JM/WAVE raiders repeatedly appeared on Habana CMQ-TV -- bragging about how easy it had been for them to penetrate the operations directed by the "Yanqui Imperialists"; a clue might have drifted up to Washington, DC that their was indeed a security problem.

How much more did these moles accomplish ?? And then Y'all expect that the government "simple-servants" wouldn't cover their mutual asses [CYA Options]; especially since the revelation of the identities and acts of the very same Moles & Traitors would have affected the careers, lives, pensions, reputations, etc. of all superiors above them, and all subordinates below them. Exactly what they continue to do today, claim "State-Secrets" every time there is evidence of blunder, crime, or penetration by moles -- or just plain traitorous actions.

'Nuff said for now ??

GPH

_____________________________________________

[Chris Cox]

'Felonious Mopery'..." (LOL)

Hahaha, G. I cut and pasted in my lexicon. Good to read your posts, btw.

[Gerry Hemming]

At least Lt. Al hesitates to make "accusations' of murder that might affect the surviving family members of these men, much less destroy their reputations by innuendo and gross fantasizing.  Let us get real, and take a little time to first learn some of the "tradecraft"; and then one might go for the "15-seconds-of-fame" Sherlock Holmes/Dickless Tracy routine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again you are speaking without understanding the content or the researcher. I possess a copy of the file on our "Major Lopez" and have tracked down the family the deceased man. I also hold three photos of him at various times in his career. I keep quiet about his identity and do not release the file info out of respect to his family and consideration that he acted out of duty and in reality likely had no choice.

You can ramble on about your supposed escapades all you want and demean others who you know nothing of, but if you would look into my background, you will find that I am not a dupe SOF or wanna-be, but have lived it and have an understanding of how mechanics are inserted, and eventually eliminated.

I have a trail of Conein to Siragusa to eventually Fernandez and Hull that intertwines with our topic and me in a roundabout way. That is my motivation and you can spout all you want about your supposed past.

The ball is in your court!

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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The ball is in my court !! How so very quaint indeed. They should award you another medal for "Congeniality". So you have a "trail??" "...of Conein to Siragusa..." -- WOW, how the hell do you think Siragusa got his FBN agents and snitches inside the Marseilles "French Connection". Conein was well respected by the "Union Corse", dating from the Indo-China OSS Det #202 and the Jedburg OSS Ops inside France during WWII.

By the time that CIA Chief of Station [COS/AM-EMB/San Jose, Costa Rica] Fernandez and John Hull were working the Intel penetrations via drug traffickers, Conein was long gone from the DEA, and moreover, he was physically impaired from participating in any of the "Contra" activities.

Sounds like more of the fantasy/fiction that Shaheen plagiarized from library books penned by Cockburn, Anderson, et al. to wet-dream his infamous Christic law suit affidavits. I was in DC with the Christic "Investigators" [after first stopping by their "crackhouse tenement" office situated in the NW D.C. ghetto] with reference to the "La Penca Bombing" incident. I told them where to go to identify the man pictured in the Danish passport, which was left behind as a false lead by Jaime Wheelock's Sandinista assassins. The picture expertly inserted into the counterfeit passport was of one of the Cuban mercenaries who had fought alongside Somoza's Nat'l Guard forces against the Sandinistas during 1978/'79.

The Christic confabulators typically screwed up on my proffered lead in the case. Why don't you give John Mattes, Esq. [Law Offices in Coral Gables, FL] a call, and get his view on the matter. You do recaall that he was the Federal Public Defender who exposed quite a bit of the CIA "Contra" dirt during that time. Also, Google his name and that of the "Lost Commandos", and you will see where he sued the CIA and other government entities that sold out the Vietnamese agents parachuted into North Vietnam -- got them their money and a Senate hearing to boot !!

Perchance lawyer John can fill you in on the WHY judge King imposed a "Rule-11" which lead to the bankrupting of the Christics, and laughed them out of court. The lawyers were very fortunate indeed that the monetary penalties weren't imposed against them personally for "fraud upon the court" !!

I take you at your word that "somebody tried to mess you up in Iowa City" -- it have seen that crap before. You might give Danny Brandt [san Antonio, TX] at NameBase.org a call. He will sell you a copies of numerous annual membership rosters for A.F.I.O. -- maybe one or more retired spooks live in your neighborhood. I get quite a few private e-mails from members of this Forum, and they query repeatedly as to what is this Al Carrier's antagonistic bile about.

My response is that: More than likely -- out there amongst the cornstalks, near the "Field-of-Dreams" -- there sits an unappreciated "Cold War Warrior", [night/watch CSI Leftenant] who has lapped upped too much of Weberman's Kulak fantasies.

I can understand that, being in law enforcement, one must be discreet in biographical information. But more than once you have invited me to "...check-me-out" -- and starting with your vague reference to having served in the "Army" -- to the 21 years in the P.D.!! -- you were barely out of diapers when JFK was hit, too young for the 'Nam, so exactly where did you make your bones in the "warrior/Intel business"??

You have "....lived it and have an understanding of how mechanics are inserted...eliminated.."?? What the hell does that mean !!??

I'm not so bold as to request your DD-214, -- but as to an "SOF dupe", and "escapades"?? What is on the internet does indeed grossly exaggerate my biography, as do loads of FBI "302s". CIA docs, etc. -- but I was invited onto this Forum -- to respond to some -- at the very least, some intelligent interrogatories. I can understand that: should you make conflicting statements [vis-avis your employment application, etc] on this forum, that your associates and superiors might well be curious.

Does the Editor of your local newspaper realize what an experienced cold warrior they have in their midst, and a public servant to boot ??!!

Nice of you to now want to protect the innocent [or dutiful] "Lopez"; how about the family or the estate of Lucien Conein should they demand redress.

I have been threatened more than once with legal actions, as at "Common Law"; lawsuits do not vanish because someone is deceased -- not in this country.

That is why I chastized Gratz recently, that is: with reference to threats to sue the hell out of somebody who is just exercising their 1st Amendment Rights.

That is real funny to me -- I have been accused of hiding something because I didn't "sue-the-Jew" [Weberman]. I have repeatedly explained that this is exactly what Weberman wanted -- get another opportunity to slither over to the clerk of the court, and walk out with a 4 inch stack of subpoenas -- so that he might demand the testimony of "Bible-Thumpin' Bush" on down to the nearest garbage collector. In fact, we taught him that strategy in our offices in Miami when his "freebie" 20 something Jew shyster was failing him during 1977/'78.

I will send you a "Magic-Marker" so that you can do some "Gummint-style" redacting of those "sensitive documents" -- which you claim to possess. Or might that reveal too much of your "sources & Methods"??!!

Gimme-a-break, and stick to who you really are, what you really do, and what you REALLY know. Have you ever really been to N.A.R.A. @ College Park, MD -- it would save me calling up Steve and asking him to check the logs.

More later, the "wannabe SOF dupe" is signing off now, gonna quit ramblin' on about my phony escapades, and go to my couch an' dream up some more war stories [for Ollie North's TV show, maybe]

GPH ["Miss Un-Congeniality"]

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