Muchmore

[Robin Unger]

Some frames from Muchmore film.

[John Dolva]

Here are the images referred to above plus an indication of Limousine speeds.

It appears to me that the Limousine has slowed to a slow crawl around the head shot and almost immediately starts to accelerate. As the car stops decelerating and starts accelerating , Kennedys body is thrown back and to the left. As Clint Hill nears the Limousine it appears to slow and then once again accelerates.

To summarise some of the earlier posts. The motorcycle riders show some interesting responses.

The rider closest to the camera appears to duck shortly after the shot. It is possible he is wincing from the reported spatter of parts from Kennedy. The middle rider briefly raises his head. Possibly to get a better look. The far rider stretches his head and looks to the left over the other riders.

Bill Newman is very agitated through most of the film. The boy next to the man in a white shirt moves around quite a bit. Hiding behind him and ending up standing next to him. Maybe the noise of the motor cycles?

The guy on the lower steps also shows a lot of response.

[John Dolva]

Some further observations.

There is something further revealed by this film.

The Limousine travels first following the road line. Before the headshot while the driver is looking back, the Limousine starts to drift to the right. After the Limousine starts to first accelerate this drift is corrected.

Therefore an additional factor in support of the idea that the 'back and to the left' body movement is caused as outlined in Kennedy's wounds and Connally's wounds is that the now limp body is perhaps not so much 'thrown' back as its inertia causes it to stay where it was until the back seat of the lLimousine 'catches' it and propels it forward.

In this image one can see the widening gap between the kerb and the Limousine, preceded and followed by a relatively straight ahead motion. The diagram illustrates this in a slightly exaggerated scale.

[David G. Healy]

John Dolva wrote:

Some further observations.

There is something further revealed by this film.

The Limousine travels first following the road line. Before the headshot while the driver is looking back, the Limousine starts to drift to the right. After the Limousine starts to first accelerate this drift is corrected.

Therefore an additional factor in support of the idea that the 'back and to the left' body movement is caused as outlined in Kennedy's wounds and Connally's wounds is that the now limp body is perhaps not so much 'thrown' back as its inertia causes it to stay where it was until the back seat of the lLimousine 'catches' it and propels it forward.

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dgh01:If and when Greer compensated, correcting the vehicle to the left as he accelerates, would not JFK go back and to the right?

You may be onto something here, can you do a overhead plot using the z_film from after Zapruders alledged "false start" -thru- say Z-370?

This is going to draw attention, are you prepared to discuss and have available source imagery and lineage, not to mention type of software used, more than likely those on the LN side of the equation will want to redo your research...

Nice job, btw -- David Healy

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In this image one can see the widening gap between the kerb and the Limousine, preceded and followed by a relatively straight ahead motion. The diagram illustrates this in a slightly exaggerated scale.

[Antti Hynonen]

John Dolva Posted Yesterday, 01:53 PM

  Here are the images referred to above plus an indication of Limousine speeds.

It appears to me that the Limousine has slowed to a slow crawl around the head shot and almost immediately starts to accelerate. As the car stops decelerating and starts accelerating , Kennedys body is thrown back and to the left. As Clint Hill nears the Limousine it appears to slow and then once again accelerates.

To summarise some of the earlier posts. The motorcycle riders show some interesting responses.

The rider closest to the camera appears to duck shortly after the shot. It is possible he is wincing from the reported spatter of parts from Kennedy. The middle rider briefly raises his head. Possibly to get a better look. The far rider stretches his head and looks to the left over the other riders.

Bill Newman is very agitated through most of the film. The boy next to the man in a white shirt moves around quite a bit. Hiding behind him and ending up standing next to him. Maybe the noise of the motor cycles?

The guy on the lower steps also shows a lot of response.

I believe the motorcycle police "closest to the camera" in your analysis is officer Hargis.

From TMWKK, (and possibly other affidavits and WC testimony if exists) Hargis says along the lines that as the headshot occurred he was hit with brain matter and skull pieces with such force that for a short moment he thought he had been hit by a bullet.

Also a fairly large piece of the presidents skull and and/or brain tissue had flown onto the trunk of the limousine, which Jackie proceeded to pick up as Agent Hill reaches the limo.

In addition to the back and to the left head motion (of only President Kennedy in the limousine), I can not comprehend a different answer except a frontal/side shot to the President's head. This is despite the considerable efforts of the Bethesda autopsists and other's to disguise the true events of 11/22/1963.

I know some of the head debris flew to other sections of the Plaza. However, I contend that the witnesses do not recall precisely where they picked up / located the evidence. Logically most of the debris would fly into one direction, from the exit wound.

[John Dolva]

John Dolva Posted Yesterday, 01:53 PM

  Here are the images referred to above plus an indication of Limousine speeds.

It appears to me that the Limousine has slowed to a slow crawl around the head shot and almost immediately starts to accelerate. As the car stops decelerating and starts accelerating , Kennedys body is thrown back and to the left. As Clint Hill nears the Limousine it appears to slow and then once again accelerates.

To summarise some of the earlier posts. The motorcycle riders show some interesting responses.

The rider closest to the camera appears to duck shortly after the shot. It is possible he is wincing from the reported spatter of parts from Kennedy. The middle rider briefly raises his head. Possibly to get a better look. The far rider stretches his head and looks to the left over the other riders.

Bill Newman is very agitated through most of the film. The boy next to the man in a white shirt moves around quite a bit. Hiding behind him and ending up standing next to him. Maybe the noise of the motor cycles?

The guy on the lower steps also shows a lot of response.

I believe the motorcycle police "closest to the camera" in your analysis is officer Hargis.

From TMWKK, (and possibly other affidavits and WC testimony if exists) Hargis says along the lines that as the headshot occurred he was hit with brain matter and skull pieces with such force that for a short moment he thought he had been hit by a bullet.

Also a fairly large piece of the presidents skull and and/or brain tissue had flown onto the trunk of the limousine, which Jackie proceeded to pick up as Agent Hill reaches the limo.

In addition to the back and to the left head motion (of only President Kennedy in the limousine), I can not comprehend a different answer except a frontal/side shot to the President's head. This is despite the considerable efforts of the Bethesda autopsists and other's to disguise the true events of 11/22/1963.

I know some of the head debris flew to other sections of the Plaza. However, I contend that the witnesses do not recall precisely where they picked up / located the evidence. Logically most of the debris would fly into one direction, from the exit wound.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hei Antti, OK. That would explain Hargis' movements. Possibly also the far rider would have heard a shift in his engine speed as he might have throttled back momentarily and he was stretching up to try to see what happened.

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I'm not going to recommend any particular piece of software except to say that it should have layering and multiple undo's.(a lot of RAM is also good, otherwise time and patience) Photoshop is probably the industry standard but there are a number of alternatives. I suggest anyone interested in doing this sort of stuff read some magazine comparisons and choose something that sounds right. There are probably many reviews available on the net.

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Kennedy's body movements are the result of multiple factors.

A full description of all these movements, starting from a few meters before the headshot till a few meters after, is:

Kennedy has already been shot in the back.

His bottom remains largely in the same place. He does not slide left or right.

He leans towards Jackie. This is aided/caused obviously by their connection as man and woman, (I have speculated previously that if he had been fully conscious he would have sought to distance himself while forcing her down and throwing himself over her). However, he is rapidly loosing blood and while entering this last foggy world consciousness tends to recede to the lower, deeper more primitive regions of the brain.

Further, she IS fully conscious, perhaps approaching that time when a human in extreem stress acquires an almost 'superhuman' clarity and strength. Time slows and is often remembered after as a kind of slow motion dream. Her hand is on his arm pulling him towards her, her voice, presence, familiarity, smell even, compels him to obey the move towards her.

Meanwhile:: The limousine is on a slight downward slope. It is slowing down, decelerating. Yet he doesn't fall towards the front of the Limousine. Why?

It's like riding a bike. Once you know how, you don't forget. If we didn't learn how to react to the continual stop, start, right , left, up, down that goes with riding in a car we'd be flopping around like a mound of jelly.

He is naturally braced against a forward motion.

However this is not all that's happening.

Underneath him is a car seat. The seat has springs in it.

[it would be a custom built seat. Designed for comfort, support, stability and the possibility to sit anywhere along its length. The differential bell housing would protrude into the middle of the seat so the springs here would be shorter but in balance so a dignitary can sit here in comfort with the President and not have to wonder about beeing given the worst seat.]

As the Limousine is decelerating his muscles are compensating to keep him from tumbling forward while the seat springs are being depressed and deformed forward.

This leaning towards Jackie continues right up to about 1/46th of a second before being struck in the head by a bullet fired (distance(d)/2000+) seconds earlier from .......

He is still alive, and then he is dead. Ther are still residual nerve reactions but within a few meters its over. His body becomes subject without interference to all the natural forces that, say a ball in the backseat, or perhaps a bucket of water on the floor, or a full cup in the hand, is under in a car that's in motion.

Objects in motion tend to continue in said motion until acted on by an outside force. Muscle control as an outside force is over. The springs are depressed. Jackies hand is on his arm pulling him towards her.

The car moves to the right. (actually continues and increases a rightwards movement as can be seen by earlier observations)

The car starightens up again AND accelerates.

The depressed springs now rebound.

His body is pushed upwards while the car twists counter clockwise under him (he is sitting just forward of the rear axel.

His previous motion imparted by a slow forward movement continues.

The car that surrounds him accelerates.

When the back of the seat reaches where Kennedy's body is it 'catches' him and imparts its motion to him. His head, swivelling on his neck continues in its slow forward movement until it hits the top back of the seat and is pulled with the rest of the body forward with the force now imparted to it by the Limousine.

A camera panning along with this scene records it. The resultant film is projected onto a stationary screen.

The Limousine is moving.

The screen should move too to properly see motion as it was.

This is the value of the technique as I have here demonstrated. Against a background created by the entire film, individual moving objects can be isolated to see precicely how they moved in time AND space.

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With regards to the Motorcycle riders, perhaps other riders can confirm this, particularly someone with experience with the Police Harley of that model.

It's a large Vtwin, a real 'thumper', probably silenced to a specific degeree, but you can't take the thump out of a Harley. At low speeds like this it would have a pretty regular beat. They had been cruising for a while and the engines would have been pretty hot. More likely to backfire. But to an experienced rider this would be 'background' sound, noted but differentiated from other sounds, like gunfire.

Further there is the continual 'feel' that a rider develops for his machine. Transmitted through hands and body from machine to rider. Again background noise, noted but differentiated. Also these guys are riding as a team, and they must remain alert to each other.

Cues are both visual and aural. If you are looking off to the side , you still are alert to shifts in engine speeds and clatter of gears et.c. of the other riders.

All riders wore open face helmets of sufficient thickness so that the strap/webbing that went from the back across the ears to the chin did not press into the ears. So allowing for some interference from the webbing normal hearing would be possible. I'd imagine it must be as the rider needs to keep the helmet on while on duty and talking to people et.c.

So the responses/movements of the riders will be as a result of sound and vision.

A closer scrutiny of the head movements of the Motorcycle Riders reveals the following ::

Rider one (closest to Muchmore) :

His head is fairly stable. Until the headshot : when, just after, his head is lowered quite quickly as if he either ducks in response to gun fire or perhaps to debris hitting him and his cycle. By the time the running SSman nears the Limousine his head has once more been raised up. So, a quick duck, and slower raise.

The far rider :

He appears only for a short time in the film. Kennedy has already been shot and the riders head is swiveling left and he stretches up to see over the other riders.

The middle rider :

His head is sweeping back and forth as one would expect, checking on the rider left and rider right to maintain position.

Left,...Right,..Le..bang.. right, stretch up, look down into Limousine, quick movement then back to looking into Limousine.

[John Dolva]

This sequence leading up to the headshot shows the gradual lean towards Jackie. He also turns more towards her in the last few frames. Then he gets shot and a few frames later comes the 'back and to the left motion'.

The small image can be viewed larger in 'Kennedy's wounds' where a more detailed description of his movements is made. It shows various scenes from the direction they were taken plus a suggestion of Limousine and head position at the time the headshot occurred.

[Robin Unger]

Hi John.

I downloaded your image analizer software.

I have been playing around with it, i need to sit down for a couple of hours and have a good look at it.

[John Dolva]

Hi John.

I downloaded your image analizer software.

I have been playing around with it, i need to sit down for a couple of hours and have a good look at it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't be discouraged by the lack of documentation, Robin.

The image mapper and the various filters are very useful. If you get the concept of z-buffers then making 3d models is not hard. The fractal plugin for resizing is good too even though it can introduce noise in noisy pics. Ive taken quite a few indistinct tiny images and gotten good defined pics out of it. The various tools and filterts are great for separations.

No doubt others reading this would be curious to look at it. The guy who provides it is very generous in doing so : http://meesoft.logicnet.dk/

grab the plugins and have fun. With helping himwith some of his projects of translation et.c. other plugins become downloadable.

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I keep looking at the various images and films and I can't get away from the idea that Kennedy was shot from the front. The front being from the left front, through the top of the head, blasting out the right side. I know the xray interpretations don't agree. But still. There were early reports of shot from the Post Office, the fact that these are not readily available means they must have been internal and quite possibly no longer exist. But the witnesses who were questioned by Harry must remember. He mentions one of his secretaries as being 20 30 feet from the Limousine. Who was she. Which of the witnesses worked in the post office? I know of three. Nix, Harry, and Price. There were more.

[Robin Unger]

This may be of some interest:

Edited August 12, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Tim Gratz]

At the risk of offending with another admittedly stupid joke, does the Muchmore film clearly establish that there is **** **** to the assassination than just a lone nut?

A great thread, by the way, and cudos to the contributors.

Edited August 13, 2005 by Tim Gratz