Warning to Jimmy Carter.

[Ron Ecker]

And after Reagan beats Carter, Reagan promptly gets shot, with a CIA man next in line for the Oval Office. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be president.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Ron you might know, who was it who said "The vice presidency isn't worth a bucket of warm spit"

[Ron Ecker]

FDR's first vice president John Nance Garner.

[Dawn Meredith]

Ron you might know, who was it who said "The vice presidency isn't worth a bucket of warm spit"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And like Jack Ruby told Warren and Ford:

"A whole new form of government will take over this country"...

Let's see:

LBJ

Nixon

Ford

Carter.....and all that's on this thread

Reagan

Bush 1st

Clinton

Clinton

W

W

Had Ross Perot not been in the election in 92, taking enough votes away from Bush 1, Clinton (or any Democrat) would not have been elected, IMO.

This country ha swung so far to the right, thanks to the "help" of radio hate mongers like Rush Limbaugh, doing the "thinking" for so many voters, that Ruby might be surprised to see just HOW prophetic his statement actually was.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

FDR's first vice president John Nance Garner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron, good catch, although I suspect he could have been talking for all of them, its a bit like nearly climbing Everest, very frustrating to an ambitious man....

[Ron Ecker]

I don't think Limbaugh thinks so much for voters anymore. O'Reilly has assumed that task, with Sean Hannity hammering home whatever voters may have missed in the "No Spin Zone." (And isn't Sean handsome! Is it just a coincidence that Fox chose ugly duckling Alan Colmes to represent the left?)

[Mark Knight]

Actually, Stephen, the Garner quote that I've heard is that the word "spit" was the sanitized version; the original was a reference to urine.

And I'd LOVE to know the legal shenanigans and the outcome, as far as the alleged Carter conspirators were concerned. I can't seem to find any record of the outcome on the internet, even regarding allegedly public records.

Kinda reminds me of a newspaper item I read about a fellow in a neighboring county, who was arrested on a charge of failure to appear in court...and was released on his own recognizance. [How does THAT work?]

[Nic Martin]

Hmm. So it's basically confirmed that there was a conspiracy, and the government / government-controlled mass-media made it go away quietly without too much of a stink.

If any members in the area could find anything in newspaper records at the local library, or maybe through the County/State Archives, they'd be good to have.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Hmm. So it's basically confirmed that there was a conspiracy, and the government / government-controlled mass-media made it go away quietly without too much of a stink.

If any members in the area could find anything in newspaper records at the local library, or maybe through the County/State Archives, they'd be good to have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nick, I dont think anything else will be found out about this, because I dont believe that RAY LEE HARVEY, AND OSWALDO ORTIZ ever existed. I dont see this as a "Dealy Plaza" scenario in that I dont think there was a plan to actually assassinate President Carter, as Teddy Kennedy, and many others have found out there's more than one way to skin a cat.This was just a little warning sent by the vested interests group "Stop meddling, lie down and die" and once the message had been recieved, Mr Harvey, and Mr Ortiz quickly shuffled of this mortal coil,never to trouble history again.They have all the hall-marks of a phantom construct...Steve.

[Dawn Meredith]

Nick, I dont think anything else will be found out about this, because I dont believe that RAY LEE HARVEY, AND OSWALDO ORTIZ ever existed. I dont see this as a "Dealy Plaza" scenario in that I dont think there was a plan to actually assassinate President Carter, as Teddy Kennedy, and many others have found out there's more than one way to skin a cat.This was just a little warning sent by the vested interests group "Stop meddling, lie down and die" and once the message had been recieved, Mr Harvey, and Mr Ortiz quickly shuffled of this mortal coil,never to trouble history again.They have all the hall-marks of a phantom construct...Steve.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly, Job complete. Now if Tim is so certain that these are REAL people who were really arrested perhaps he can get us the documents. Arrest records are probably difficult to get, unless you are an attorney associated with the case at hand, but court document such as are used for a plea and sentencing are PUBLIC docs. If these men had a trial, this is also discoverable thru public criminal court system. (Of course one has to know where this occurred).

Of couse, also of import: if this was a REAL event, vs a staged one, it would have garnered massive publicity.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

Nick, I dont think anything else will be found out about this, because I dont believe that RAY LEE HARVEY, AND OSWALDO ORTIZ ever existed. I dont see this as a "Dealy Plaza" scenario in that I dont think there was a plan to actually assassinate President Carter, as Teddy Kennedy, and many others have found out there's more than one way to skin a cat.This was just a little warning sent by the vested interests group "Stop meddling, lie down and die" and once the message had been recieved, Mr Harvey, and Mr Ortiz quickly shuffled of this mortal coil,never to trouble history again.They have all the hall-marks of a phantom construct...Steve.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly, Job complete. Now if Tim is so certain that these are REAL people who were really arrested perhaps he can get us the documents. Arrest records are probably difficult to get, unless you are an attorney associated with the case at hand, but court document such as are used for a plea and sentencing are PUBLIC docs. If these men had a trial, this is also discoverable thru public criminal court system. (Of course one has to know where this occurred).

Of couse, also of import: if this was a REAL event, vs a staged one, it would have garnered massive publicity.

Dawn

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Nick, I dont think anything else will be found out about this, because I dont believe that RAY LEE HARVEY, AND OSWALDO ORTIZ ever existed. I dont see this as a "Dealy Plaza" scenario in that I dont think there was a plan to actually assassinate President Carter, as Teddy Kennedy, and many others have found out there's more than one way to skin a cat.This was just a little warning sent by the vested interests group "Stop meddling, lie down and die" and once the message had been recieved, Mr Harvey, and Mr Ortiz quickly shuffled of this mortal coil,never to trouble history again.They have all the hall-marks of a phantom construct...Steve.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly, Job complete. Now if Tim is so certain that these are REAL people who were really arrested perhaps he can get us the documents. Arrest records are probably difficult to get, unless you are an attorney associated with the case at hand, but court document such as are used for a plea and sentencing are PUBLIC docs. If these men had a trial, this is also discoverable thru public criminal court system. (Of course one has to know where this occurred).

Of couse, also of import: if this was a REAL event, vs a staged one, it would have garnered massive publicity.

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim, there's your challenge old boy,as Dawn says there should be SOME public record of this, are you up to it? As I said I dont think you will find anything, this has Spook written all over it. One thing, why try to implicate Mexican gunmen in this. Castro not available in 79?

[Ron Ecker]

Stephen,

I gather you were able to contact Stryker McGuire? If so, did he express an opinion on this story, which he covered?

Ron

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Stephen,

I gather you were able to contact Stryker McGuire? If so, did he express an opinion on this story, which he covered?

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron, sorry to disappoint but the best I got was a promise to ring me back, which has never materilized. I will try one more time:

Dawn has mentioned the "October surprise" For the few members on this board who dont know of this here are the bare-bones; ( If true it shows how desperate the Reaganites were to "Win one for the Gipper")

Carter was at the time dealing with the Iran hostage crisis, it is asserted that a secret deal was struck, with republicans who had CIA connections including GHW Bush. This deal arranged to have the hostages held though October,This was in return for unfreezing Iran's monetary assets. The hostages were in fact released on the very day of Reagan's inauguration, a mere 20 mins after his address.

CHRONOLOGY::

Sept 22,(1980) Iraq invades Iran.

Oct 15-20, Meetings are held in Paris between emissaries of the Bush--Reagan campaign, and high level Iranian, and Israeli representatives.

Oct 21, Iran, for reasons not explained, abruptly shifts its position in negotiations with the Carter regime.

Oct 21-23, Israel secretly ships F-4 fighter aircraft tyres to Iran, in full violation of the US arms enbargo, and Iran disperses the hostages to different locations...

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Actually, Stephen, the Garner quote that I've heard is that the word "spit" was the sanitized version; the original was a reference to urine.

And I'd LOVE to know the legal shenanigans and the outcome, as far as the alleged Carter conspirators were concerned.  I can't seem to find any record of the outcome on the internet, even regarding allegedly public records.

Kinda reminds me of a newspaper item I read about a fellow in a neighboring county, who was arrested on a charge of failure to appear in court...and was released on his own recognizance. [How does THAT work?]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark, i've spent the best part of 4 hours trying to find these guys, after their arrest they simply ceased to exist. I wonder if James has any photo's of them, be good to see if there is any "family" likenesses...