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headshot head movements


John Dolva
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John,

Here are some more animations for your study. Connally's head turn is pronounced as he starts to rise up out of Nellie's lap when JFK's head exploded. I just cannot be so sure about JFK's head at this time.

Bill

post-1084-1145465827_thumb.gif post-1084-1145465841_thumb.gif post-1084-1145465860_thumb.gif post-1084-1145465881_thumb.gif

Edited by Bill Miller
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OK, I agree! No argument, her hand is not there.

So, is it shadow or is it chin? I say shadow on a white area which may be JFK's shirt cuff. But even if it is shown to be a whatever, what you are saying is chin, I say is shadow cast by head on this whatever.

(this clip is basis for what I'm saying. above posts explain.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...pe=post&id=5375 )

John - how can JFK's head cast a shadow when all shadows are cast towards Zapruder from where JFK is seated between those frames? I think that we are seeing the shaded part of the lower face because I have yet to find a logical answer for it being anything else. I say this because for it to be a shadow, then there has to be something solid for it to fall upon and there is nothing between JFK and Zapruder's camera. I wish I could be sure, but it does appear to possibly be JFK's lower face in silhouette against Jackie. That is not to say that JFK's head does not turn, but how much of that turn (if we are seeing part of the chin in silohouette in Z313) was merely due to the rotation of the limo and it's occupants ?

Bill

post-1084-1145466528_thumb.jpg

Edited by Bill Miller
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Could you go over that again? Please, Bill.

What I suggest is that the head in tilting this way throws a shadow on part of the white area which is in line with the shadow the head throws onto the mass of blood mist.

Roughly this is the scene from the front of the limousine. If one takes the angle of the shadow from the altgens and observes the illumination of the ear and cheek and nose, it is possible to very accurately pose the head 312.

The tilt and twist provides a profile to the sun which explains these 313 shadows.

______

Connally. Recheck please. See Nellies right shoulder arm.

I suggest the blur is reversed here to get that connally movement. Check for consistency re Kennedy alignment.

In fact Connally and Nellie hardly move at all between these two frames. The apparent move is largely blur streak.

_______________

EDIT:: just another point: if you look at this* limo direction speed analysis, you can see that the limo starting at 312 describes an arc around Zapruder. IOW at this point the rotation due to location shift is not a factor.

See the two parallel lines at 312 and 313. They would only be parallel if the limo was turning to the right at this point. If it was going as in the previous frames, these lines would converge 'above' the limo. 313 to 314 there is a larger diversion of these lines, indicating an even greater right turn/jiggle.

* http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=60213

Edited by John Dolva
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Could you go over that again? Please, Bill.

John,

I believe that you have been taken in by motion blur and the illusion it can cause. Would you not agree that a bullet can move a persons head in less than 1/18th of a seconds time, but a person cannot stop that motion and react to it in the next 18th of a second by bringing the head back to it's original position.

If JFK's head gets twisted in the fashion that you describe in Z313, then how can you account that his face is still seen in profile in Z314.

post-1084-1145514605_thumb.gif

I took the liberty of removing the blurred frame (Z313) and checked JFK's head position at Z312 against Z314. These animations are for your consideration. Other than the slight counter clockwise rotation of the limo between frames - I believe that Z314 proves that the President's head did not twist in the fashion that your illustration shows.

post-1084-1145514623_thumb.gif

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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Could you go over that again? Please, Bill.

John,

I believe that you have been taken in by motion blur and the illusion it can cause. Would you not agree that a bullet can move a persons head in less than 1/18th of a seconds time, but a person cannot stop that motion and react to it in the next 18th of a second by bringing the head back to it's original position.

If JFK's head gets twisted in the fashion that you describe in Z313, then how can you account that his face is still seen in profile in Z314.

post-1084-1145514605_thumb.gif

I took the liberty of removing the blurred frame (Z313) and checked JFK's head position at Z312 against Z314. These animations are for your consideration. Other than the slight counter clockwise rotation of the limo between frames - I believe that Z314 proves that the President's head did not twist in the fashion that your illustration shows.

post-1084-1145514623_thumb.gif

Bill

Excellent Bill, thank you. I do like it when what looks like a major flaw in my analysis is pointed out.. This one if I cannot explain is one that would send me back to basics (again) I'll reply soon.

Did you look at the diagram of limo direction. I think the limo in 313 314 is curving to the right, not only negating the rotation as you describe but reversing it after 313.

Edited by John Dolva
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Guest Stephen Turner

Bill, and John. Thanks gentlemen-a masterclass in photo analysis. I am sure many like me are following avidly..Steve.

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Excellent Bill, thank you. I do like it when what looks like a major flaw in my analysis is pointed out.. This one if I cannot explain is one that would send me back to basics (again) I'll reply soon.

Did you look at the diagram of limo direction. I think the limo in 313 314 is curving to the right, not only negating the rotation as you describe but reversing it after 313.

You're welcome, John. I will do a clip shortly showing the limo. The car was said to be traveling 11" per Zframe as it was coming down the street, but by the time of the head shot the car had slowed to a near crawl, thus the limo's movement may be next to nill in that 2/18ths of a second between Z312 and Z314.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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John Dolva wrote

[...]

The limousine drifts away from the kerb and accelerates.

Before Kennedy is shot in the head, he is turning his head towards Jackie.

His body is also tilting towards her.

If one looks at the top of his head one can see that when shot, his head tilts towards the camera and dips down and up again.

dgh: does your above suggest a shot from the right front?

Then there are some movements indicating perhaps reflexes or a second shot.

Then as the limousine starts to accelerate and the seat springs recoil his body moves up and when the accelerating limousine reaches where his body is, the back rest of the rear seat 'catches kennedy and his body is propelled forward.

His head swivels backwards and hits the top of the seat and rebounds.

His body returns to the seat, depresses the seat springs again bounces once and and he collapses towards Jackie.

Edited by David G. Healy
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Bill, I'm going to continue 'argument' against your position (which isn't entirely clear to me at the moment, I think we both recognise 313 as a difficult one because of the rapid movements and blurs) until exhausted. If a point arises I cannot counter with at least a sufficiently credible answer do continue a doubt, I'll happily shift. For the moment my computer time is limited and may take a few days to prepare an answer.

Meanwhile...

Hi David.

This I think is an earlier description that I at the moment see a need to modify. Not only is it ambiguous in itself, but my thinking has developed from there. I see now a twist and tilt I didn't see before that accounts in part for the dip movement.

Taken as it is however, I think : no , it doesn't indicate a shot from the right. Unless the force I've read others describe where a struck object moves towards the direction of applied force (which doesn't make sense to me) is a factor here. I'm currently trying to identify and isolate the component of the movements that could be attriubuted to the limo movements. Perhaps subtracting that from the picture can make things clearer.

My current hyopothesis is a shot from the left that twists the face away from Zapruder and tilts the top of the head towards Zapruder. Trying to picture the impulse that led to this needs to consider pivot points along the spine. I can visualise a roughly anterior of middle top head shallow tangential strike from the left roughly south, ie in a northern direction trajectory that accounts for this.

Edited by John Dolva
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Bill, I'm going to continue 'argument' against your position (which isn't entirely clear to me at the moment, I think we both recognise 313 as a difficult one because of the rapid movements and blurs) until exhausted. If a point arises I cannot counter with at least a sufficiently credible answer do continue a doubt, I'll happily shift. For the moment my computer time is limited and may take a few days to prepare an answer.

John,

Take all the time you need for there can only be one logical conclusion. Personally, I believe it is a conclusion that doesn't need to even include Z313 for the simple reason that while it is POSSIBLE for the impact of a bullet to violently twist JFK's head in one direction in less than 1/18th of a second through a transfer of momentum ... it is IMPOSSIBLE for JFK to have stopped that motion and come back to his original profiled position in the next 1/18th of a second. Having said that, it should be obvious that the bloody cranial fluid illuminated by sunlight ... combined with motion blur has led you to draw a false conclusion. Your observation was valid even if caused by an illusion, but seeing Z312 and Z314 coming over the top of one another and JFK still being in profile no longer allows your observation to be plausible.

Bill

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I agree, Bill. It's an important point, and I will try to answer. The answer may be complete agreement. Thank you for sticking with it.

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I agree, Bill. It's an important point, and I will try to answer. The answer may be complete agreement. Thank you for sticking with it.

John ... no problem for I know your interest is sincere and must be right in your mind or it will nag at you. I demonstrate the slight rortation of the crossbar between these frames for your consideration.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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Bill, (and anyone) could you please look at this carefully. I believe I have aligned the frames consistently. If you look at the outline of the frames you can now see how Zapruder tilted the camera as he panned.

I've just layered a few frames at transparencies so that one can see where things were on previous frames as the limo proceeds.

Please observe closely (at continuous loop on media viewer is best so one can view it a number of times in rapid succession.) the cross bar. Just focus on it and see how it travels. See its relationship to the kerb.

_____________

(What I see is that immediately after the headshot, the direction of travel of the limousine changes dramatically. (The limo swerves away from the far street edge for a few of frames, then corrects this change.))

Edited by John Dolva
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Bill, (and anyone) could you please look at this carefully. I believe I have aligned the frames consistently. If you look at the outline of the frames you can now see how Zapruder tilted the camera as he panned.

Each time that I tried to play your clip in various programs ... they said your extension didn't match the format, this I am not able to view your clip.

The reason why I mentioned the crossbar is that even if JFK was a motionless statue - his profile would rotate equally with the crossbar as he passed through Zapruder's field of view.

Bill

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OK Bill, that's something that needs to be got right as the clips are critical to the issue. You can't cherck and comment on how I align the frames and the information to be had by analysing the results would be unavailablke to those who can't view the clips. I'm running xphome. I have updated viewing codecs, and have a range of viewers most of which have no problem playing the clips which are made with the stock standard windows movie maker.

The points you make re rotation are valid.

What needs to be considered is the changes in direction indicated by the cross bar. IOW if there is no change of direction on a level surface then a line indicating the alignment on the cross bar (on properly aligned frames) will have a common vanishing point.

IMO: While viewing the frames individually gives an idea. One needs to

properly align the frames

check the relative angles of the crossbar frame by frame

in order to get a correct view of limo direction of travel

Does that make sense?

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