New Orleans - The beginning of the end?

[Tim Gratz]

Linked below is a very interesting story about a twenty year old man who commandered a school bus to drive seventy people out of harm's way to Houston.

The mayot of New Orleans, who apparently now spends more of his time blasting Bush than trying to fix the problems he created, apparently never thought of using the school buses to evacuate his constituents. Duh!!

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory2/3334317

[Tim Gratz]

Is it correct that Bush was urging a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans and the local authorities (including the Governor) resisted? Presumably, the earlier the evacuation began the more people would have been evacuated.

[David G. Healy]

Is it correct that Bush was urging a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans and the local authorities (including the Governor) resisted?  Presumably, the earlier the evacuation began the more people would have been evacuated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mr Gratz,

I do believe you have FEAR for the Grand Old Party

pucker up -- Karl Rove will think of something, SOMETIME...

[Tim Gratz]

David, your post did not, of course, answer the question I posted which I assume is of some relevance in asssessing blame if that is what we want to spend our time doing.

[David G. Healy]

David, your post did not, of course, answer the question I posted which I assume is of some relevance in asssessing blame if that is what we want to spend our time doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No politics - No blame, here. Just talk shows and newsreel footage -- And a whole lot of GOP Dancing around the issue.

Think Rep. Billy will be switching back to the Democratic party anytime soon? When's that midterm election again?

No blame here, I suspect the Black Cacus might feel a bit different... Karl, oh, KARL! Where are you?

[John Simkin]

Shrub has met his Waterloo...Where-oh-where is the Christian right? Ya know, the M O R A L majority? Truck loads of water sitting on a freeway in the south, won't move till authorized, all the 'authorizers' are posing for photos while townspeople need a drink of potable water -- you got a world class cluster f*** underway, Mr. Gratz! How will Karl Rove, ole buddy, fix this ONE?

F E M A? What's FEMA?

By using Republican disinformation agents like Tim Gratz. Apparently a poll shows that 45% of Americans are pleased with the way George Bush has handled the crisis so far. It seems that the Americans do have a lot of people like Tim who are incapable of logical thought. I suppose some could use the excuse that they only get their information from media outlets like Fox News, but Tim has the benefit of reading the thoughts of the wise people who make up this forum. But as I have long suspected, Tim does not actually read these posts. If he does, he clearly does not understand them.

In England, and I suspect every country in the world bar the USA, expect the prime minister or president to take charge in a national crisis. They are then judged on their ability to do that. I have little time for the policies of Tony Blair but no one would question his ability to lead from the front in a crisis.

This goes for all countries. Two months ago Hurricane Dennis approached the coast of Cuba. This is of course a country with few cars. Yet the Cuban government moved over a million people out of its path and only ten people died as a result of this hurricane. Castro did not appear on television and blame the local mayors for the loss of these people. He did not need to because he had been able to lead effectively during the crisis. Cuba is a poor country and has been devastated by the economic boycott imposed by its powerful nations for over 40 years. The reason it could do this was the way it uses the resources available. It does not only protect the rich, it takes care of its poor. That is what happens in Europe. That is the way it works in all civilised countries.

It took five days of hesitation before the national guard and troops reached New Orleans in the numbers needed to search for survivors. That is an appalling fact that would disgrace a third world country. But this has happened in the richest and most powerful country in the world.

Ronald Reagan once said: “Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. George Bush reflects this ideology more than anyone since Reagan. Bush has constantly argued that by reducing taxes the government would then do less. It is this ideology that explains this crisis.

When the Army Corps of Engineers asked Bush for $105m to reinforce the levees, he gave them $40m. The reason this money was unavailable was because he had been giving tax cuts to the rich and the cost of the war in Iraq.

When you see corpses floating in the streets for five days, it is clear for the world to see that the American government cannot look after its own people. The world appears to be turned upside down when Bush has to ask Sri Lanka to send emergency aid, the humiliation of a once proud country is complete. I wonder if Bush has accepted Castro’s offer of sending 1,100 doctors to Houston with 26 tonnes of medicine to treat victims.

The response by the American government has been mixed. Some of course are always willing to help in times of crisis. Others, especially the more conservative members of community, ask the same kind of questions that they asks when these pleas of help come from military dictatorships in the third world. Should we bail out countries that have spent such large sums on the military? Will our money be used to subsidize bad government?

Aaron Brousard, the president of Jefferson parish, told NBC: “We have been abandoned by our own country. It’s not just Katrina that caused all these deaths in New Orleans. Bureacracy has committed murder here in the greater New Orleans area, and bureaucracy has to stand trial before Congress now”. I think he is right, I believe George Bush should be impeached. After all, this is not some sort of sex scandal. This man should be removed from office before he does your country even more damage.

[Tim Gratz]

John, I submit it is you who does not understand how the American system works.

Would you admit that Bush lacked the legal authority to order a mandatory evacuation?

Would you admit that Mayor Nagin delayed issuing a mandatory evacuation even after he was ordered to do so?

Is it due to my lack of logic that I attribute a great deal of the problem to the failure of the local authorities to get their constituents out of the way?

You compare the situation to Cuba. Well, Cuba is a dictatorship where Castro can order people to do anything he wants done. That is not how it works in America. When Bush urges reluctant Democrat mayor to order an evacuation of his city, and the mayor drags his feet and stalls, it is hardly fair to blame Bush for the lack of evacuation, is it?

I hope you will forget the rhetoric and respond to the facts.

Do you admit the problem was exacerbated by the failure to evacuate the entire city?

Do you admit that Bush lacked the authority to order such an evacuation?

Do you admit that the Mayor of New Orleans delayed the evacuation despite being urged to issue one earlier?

Whether or not the federal government could have gotten assistance to the victims faster is, it seems to me, the second issue to be addressed. The first is why the city was not adequately evacuated in the first place. Let's start with day one, and when we are finished there, go to day two.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

I found on the Web a "blogger" named Brendan Loy, an amateur meterologist, who had urged evacuation a long time before the mayor did. (So far as I know this fellow has no political agenda.)

This is what he had to say on August 27, 2005, about the Mayor's dilatory tactics:

N.O. mayor to issue mandatory evacuation

8/27/2005 10:58:00 PM EST

Posted by Brendan Loy

Okay, so let me get this straight: the governor calls the mayor during dinner, and basically says "HEY, IDIOT, CALL THE F***IN' HURRICANE CENTER!" It took a phone call from the governor to convince him to make this call?!? Well anyway, the mayor calls the NHC, and they basically tell him, "GET EVERYONE OUT OF YOUR CITY NOW!!!" So now, finally, the mayor is apparently planning to order first mandatory evacuation in city history tomorrow morning. About damn time. Story:

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said he may call for the first-ever mandatory evacuation in city history after talking with the head of the Hurricane Center who said a storm surge of 20-25 feet could be expected with major hurricane Katrina.

Nagin said he would consider ordering evacuations by Sunday morning and may employ buses and trains to help get people out of the city.

In an interview on Eyewitness News, Nagin said his Saturday night dinner was interrupted by an urgent call from Governor Kathleen Blanco who asked Nagin to call the Hurricane Center.

Nagin said the Hurricane Center Chief told the mayor that if it was possible at all, he should order an evacuation due to winds that could reach 145 miles per hour sustained and 170 mile per hour gusts.

Nagin said he would put his wife and family on a plane and he urged everyone to do anything they could to get out.

"All models say this storm will land right on top of New Orleans," he said.

Nagin said he would call churches and urge them to have their congregations adopt seniors or someone who doesn't have transportation and get them out.

"I don't want to wake up one day and not have done all I could do with a catastrophe on top of us."

Um, well, "all you could" might have included already having ordered a mandatory evacuation by now, instead of waiting until 24 hours before the hurricane hits. It also might have included calling the Hurricane Center on your own initiative!! Argh. I am not remotely impressed with Mayor Nagin at the moment.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

This is what the aforesaid Mr. Loy was saying on August 26, 2005:

New Orleans in peril

8/26/2005 01:57:00 PM EST

Posted by Brendan Loy

At the risk of being alarmist, we could be 3-4 days away from an unprecedented cataclysm that could kill as many as 100,000 people in New Orleans. Such a scenario is unlikely -- the conditions would have be just right (or rather, just wrong) -- but IMHO, it's not nearly unlikely enough to feel good about things. If I were in New Orleans, I would seriously consider getting the hell out of dodge right now, just in case. Once the evacuation orders are issued, if it comes to that, it'll inevitably be an absolute madhouse, despite officials' best efforts.

According to a later post by Mr. Loy, the worst case scenario was averted because the storm unexpectedly weakened a bit and took a turn before hitting New Orleans. Otherwise, the failure of the Mayor to act in a timely fashion would have cost hundreds of thousands of deaths and no one would be blaiming Bush for not getting aid to the victims fast enough.

Here in the Keys, the local authorities regularly issue mandatory evacuations when hurricanes threaten. Fortunately, in almost all cases, the hurricanes do not do major damage and the evacuation proved unnecessary. But it is clearly better to err on the side of caution.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Pat Speer]

I've been staying out of this one but feel a few points should be made.

1. New Orleans WAS 80% evacuated, which I believe is an unparalled event in American history. If anyone else can think of any time where so many took flight so fast they should cough it up now. When Miami has been threatened by hurricanes I doubt they've ever had even 50% evacuation. I doubt there is any large city in America that could be fully evacuated. In New Orleans' case it is particularly difficult, as just a few small highways stretch across the swamps surrounding New Orleans. The many small towns along these highways are notorious inhospitable to blacks heading to and from New Orleans, by the way, which could very well have been a factor in some staying put. Poverty was obviously the main factor.

2. Mr. Purvis makes a good point when he describes the slums of New Orleans as being some of the worst in the country. I think he's incorrect to describe them as being in the French Quarter, however. I believe they lie just west of the French Quarter in an area once upon a time called Storyville--the birthplace of an American art form known as JAZZ. Still, there are slums all over New Orleans. Anyone wishing to know more about the streets of New Orleans should watch I'm "Bout It, a low-budget movie about the life of the rapper Master P (who once called me up and threatened to put a cap in my ass, but that's a different story).

3. I witnessed the Rodney King riots, and the government and police basically abandoned the city for two days and watched the looting on TV with the rest of us. There is a feeling among police officers, fireman, and care workers that if a "community is gonna threaten them--let the sucker burn." This happened in Watts and again in South Central. It's happened in Detroit, Newark, and Miami as well. In New Orleans, however, this resulted in people dying of dehydration when those wanting to help them got scared off by some sicko sniper. While I think emergency service workers might be more willing to risk their lives if those dying were predominantly white, I also think the chances of a sniper shooting at an emergency worker in a white neighborhood would be far smaller. (Firemen were shot at during the riots.) Black rage and white apathy towards black rage are facts of life in the USA. Very little of what's happened in New Orleans has surprised me.

I don't think this will do much one way or the other for Bush. Probably hurt him a little. Most Americans I know are more upset about the skyrocketing gas prices than by Bush's lack of response in New Orleans. An investigation into FEMA that shows Brown was selected for his religious beliefs might prove an embarrassment.

[Tim Gratz]

There is one nexus between this thread and assasination research. I offer one clu: G.R.

Kudos to whoever is the first to suggest the link!

[Tim Gratz]

Once more Pat contributes the voice of reason.

All the points he makes are interesting and I suspect his analysis and assessments are correct. Still, I think the evacuation order should have come earlier. It surprises me to learn that the evacuation was 80% successful.

[Tim Gratz]

There is an article about Mr. Loy's warnings to the Mayor of NO in the September 5, 2005 "New York Times":

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/technolo...c68b39f&ei=5070

Mr. Loy does not like Michael Brown:

http://www.brendanloy.com/2005/09/you-have...kidding-me.html

Edited September 5, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Guest Stephen Turner]

George Bush is so obviously,frighteningly, pathetically miles out of his depth, that sometimes I dont know whether to laugh, or cry at his bumbling, inept "performance" THIS IS THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD FOR CHRISTS SAKE, I wouldn't leave him charge of my goldfish pond, let alone my country, Everytime I see him I imagine him dressed up as Bart Simpson going "I didn't do it" Every stunt this creature has pulled over the years, he's walked away from, leaving someone else to tidy up his dirty work, and I guess he will again. At least we know where the WMD's are now, their in the Whitehouse. Still at least this has stopped Condie spending the National debt on shoe's. How about we arrange a little open topped motorcade once New Orleans has been rebuilt, allow the citizens to show their gratitude.

[John Simkin]

You compare the situation to Cuba.  Well, Cuba is a dictatorship where Castro can order people to do anything he wants done.  That is not how it works in America. 

Are you suggesting that a country has to be a dictatorship before it can take care of its people? You write like you have never been outside the US (a common problem in a country that includes so many people without a passport and who rely on its highly biased media outlets). You really should spend some time in Europe to see how other countries look after its citizens.