Chauncey Holt

[Thomas Graves]

Chauncey Holt testified that the three trams were:

Old one = Chauncey Marvin Holt

Dark one = Charles Rogers

Tall one = Charles Harrelson

Charles Harrelson

Chauncey Marvin Holt

Charles Rogers

Mark

___________________________________________

An observation: Maybe the tall tramp really is Harrelson. Not only does he look like him, but he's smiling in a (potential) "tight spot," just like the known Harrelson is smiling (outside? inside?) the courthouse. (Probably a "survival mechanism.")

--Thomas

___________________________________________

[William Kelly]

Bill, Question, your interview with Holt was by phone or in person - and if so where. In 1992 I lived in the San Diego area and was actively working with Plumlee and others on the events of 11/22/63. I was aware that Holt lived but 20 minutes drive from me and phoned him. We chatted a few times, but he tried to NOT meet me and succeeded....despite many attempts. I was too close for comfort, either physically or because of someone else I was in contact with made him uncomfortable, would be my guess. Just another in many mysteries of trying to untangle this case....FWIW

Hi Peter,

I was in San Diego, staying with my photographer friend Zavin, who I had met in Australia. I had talked with Chauncey from Houston and made arrangements to interview him when I got to San Diego, traveling by train. Zavin drove southeast of the city, in the hills, in a large, sprawing house that Holt said was once a casino. No one else was around. After the interview, conducted in his living room, he took us to a garage or workroom where his art work was located.

Holt asked me about the bonifides of some other researchers who sought him out, and I gave him my evaluation of those who I knew. Some I didn't. I know a few people who lived in the area who also got to know him - an eye doctor from San Diego who attended COPA conferences in Dallas, and a reporter.

The guys who wrote The Man on the Grassy Knoll had a good relationship with Holt and he gave them a copy of his manuscript - which they let me read when I was visiting with them. Holt's manuscript was about three or four inches thick and was chock full of details, though I've never seen it again. Maybe his daughter has it?

I found him charming and believeable, and possessive of all the attributes that made him a self-acknowledged artist, forger, pilot, marksman, bookie, acountant and confidence man.

BK

[William Plumlee]

I hope this does not distratct from my main question to Bill, which was:

While some of Holt's info checks out, others don't, and disinfo is planted among the truth.

Which particular info did not check out in your experience?

Wim

Well, he mentioned that he saw about a dozen guys he worked with on previous operaitons at Dealey Plaza, when some of them have been acounted for elsewhere.

In addition, he said he drove John Rosselli to Dallas in the Olds station wagon from Grace Ranch.

Others claim he was flown in to Dallas in a private plane.

I believe FBI wiretaps of Rosselli place him in a Vegas hotel at the time.

BK

The wire tapes that put Roselli in Las Vegas where from April of 1963 when he was at the "Thunderbird Inn". The FBI knew this at the time (63) when they stated he was not in Dallas and used the old survailence tapes to prove same to committee investigators. After the assassination it was said by the FBI that he was in Las Vegas at the time of the shooting and produced said document and tape to committee. (classified) The same reports and the same SAC also put me in West Palm Beach in county jail, in November of 63 but no records were produced or fingerprint booking card was ever produced (classified). Sometime later the FBI said in an "inter-agency memo", (classified) that I was in a Denver Colorado jail in November (reference FBI SAC Scott Warner 62 file and 301/2 file... the 301/2 was destoryed". classified) Fuel receips from aircraft N-63XX Echo were signed by me at the Thunderbird Inn airport in April of 63 (as per FBI 26 file de-classified) In 1978 a flight plann dated from April of 1963 from N63XX Thompson flight service Utah was found in aircraft that had names written on same by pilot (Plumlee) "Col. Rawlston", and also "call Rosellie". ( release date: FOIA 1981 FBI Lab. declassified)

Whats the point? Why do some quote the FBI as fact and can do no wrong and then on the other hand say they lie? Can anyone believe anything they had said back then as to the events leading to the assassination? Yet today they say and others that Rosellie was in Las Vegas at the time of the shooting because the FBI said he was there.... and now that becomes a FACT?..... DAH.

Edited October 1, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Wim Dankbaar]

Here's the disinfo cover story from Gus Russo.

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/russo.jpg

Mind you, Russo is also co-producer of the new German documentary "Rendez Vous with Death" which claims that Oswald was hired by Fidel Castro to kill Kennedy (alone).

Wim

[Pat Speer]

Here's the disinfo cover story from Gus Russo.

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/russo.jpg

Mind you, Russo is also co-producer of the new German documentary "Rendez Vous with Death" which claims that Oswald was hired by Fidel Castro to kill Kennedy (alone).

Wim

Russo's a bit of a hack, in my opinion, willing to say most anything as long as it sells. First, he says Castro killed Kennedy and the mob had nothing to do with it. Then, in The Outfit, he says that Jack Ruby's childhood friend, Dave Yaras, who had been talking to Ruby in the weeks before the assassination, had performed political assassinations on behalf of the mob. What? Excuse me? My, that is a coinky-dink!

Edited October 2, 2006 by Pat Speer

[William Plumlee]

I hope this does not distratct from my main question to Bill, which was:

While some of Holt's info checks out, others don't, and disinfo is planted among the truth.

Which particular info did not check out in your experience?

Wim

Well, he mentioned that he saw about a dozen guys he worked with on previous operaitons at Dealey Plaza, when some of them have been acounted for elsewhere.

In addition, he said he drove John Rosselli to Dallas in the Olds station wagon from Grace Ranch.

Others claim he was flown in to Dallas in a private plane.

I believe FBI wiretaps of Rosselli place him in a Vegas hotel at the time.

BK

The wire tapes that put Roselli in Las Vegas where from April of 1963 when he was at the "Thunderbird Inn". The FBI knew this at the time (63) when they stated he was not in Dallas and used the old survailence tapes to prove same to committee investigators. After the assassination it was said by the FBI that he was in Las Vegas at the time of the shooting and produced said document and tape to committee. (classified) The same reports and the same SAC also put me in West Palm Beach in county jail, in November of 63 but no records were produced or fingerprint booking card was ever produced (classified). Sometime later the FBI said in an "inter-agency memo", (classified) that I was in a Denver Colorado jail in November (reference FBI SAC Scott Warner 62 file and 301/2 file... the 301/2 was destoryed". classified) Fuel receips from aircraft N-63XX Echo were signed by me at the Thunderbird Inn airport in April of 63 (as per FBI 26 file de-classified) In 1978 a flight plann dated from April of 1963 from N63XX Thompson flight service Utah was found in aircraft that had names written on same by pilot (Plumlee) "Col. Rawlston", and also "call Rosellie". ( release date: FOIA 1981 FBI Lab. declassified) FBI file Lab locator number for Flight Plan #24-8157 32 Q6 DQ also found at "toshplumlee.info" picture # 7

Whats the point? Why do some quote the FBI as fact and can do no wrong and then on the other hand say they lie? Can anyone believe anything they had said back then as to the events leading to the assassination? Yet today they say and others that Rosellie was in Las Vegas at the time of the shooting because the FBI said he was there.... and now that becomes a FACT?..... DAH.

Reference to previous post: Documentation and background.

http://toshplumlee.info/toshgallerySAFE.htm #7

(release date, 1963 flight plan; Cessna N 63XX Echo: also Plumlee/Rosellie FOIA 1981 FBI Lab. declassified) FBI file locator number for Flight Plan #24-8157 32 Q6 DQ referenced within FBI #26 file/Plumlee; also found at "toshplumlee.info" picture #7; also reference within the Roselli/Plumlee #62-2116 file and the Phoenix FBI #PHX-72, 73 file of 1978, declassified-- as well as the FBI-SS 302 Phoenix file that was destroyed in 1963)

" The Flight Plan states: two on board: destination Sky Harbor Phoenix; Alt Airport: Las Vegas; Home base of aircraft; Thompson Flight Service, Salt Lake City; Home address of pilot 'Apple Blosom Lane, Denver Colorado. Contact place while in Phoenix; CARAVAN INN. FBI 26 Files dated April 1963. Phoenix 302 files dated 1963, gun running to Florida. hand writen notes at bottom of flight plan: "J Ralston.... call J Rosellie Miami JMWAVE Col. Rawlston". On file at FBI office since April of 1963 as per FBI 26 file reference "Abd Aircraft, Mc Cord Ranch NM" James Mc Cord interview by FBI.

Edited October 2, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Wim Dankbaar]

To make it easier :

http://toshplumlee.info/

[William Plumlee]

To make it easier :

http://toshplumlee.info/

Thanks Wim; almost forgot about all those files. You can find reference to the destoryed gun running 1963 302 file declassified in 1981, as well as the Roselli/Plumlee #62-2116 file and the PHX-72-73 file of 1978; declassified 1997. Also note that these 1981 FOIA files were declassified (1981) after they went to the HSCA in 1978 as stamped, but they have never been released by the HSCA, althought many FOIA request have been made over the years. The FBI only released the early tampered files (two different sets of FBI files are on Plumlee. One set declassified in 1981, the other set declassified in 1997) After much proding by Bernard Finisterwald in 1981, the first set of files (1981) were declassified and released FOIA to Finisterwald. The other set which contained information concerning Rosellie and Plumlee remained classified until 1997 or there abouts.

Reference Finsterwal's letter of 1981:

"Tosh you must be something special.., you got your records in record time. Pardon the pun. Gary (Shaw) I would like these files back after you have had a chance to go over them".

signed. Barnard Finisterwald, Jr.

The FBI did not release the other files which mentioned Rosellie until 1997 long after the HSCA had concluded. The Roselli/Plumlee classified file was in the 1997 FOIA release, but not in the declassified 1981 release to the HSCA. A different FBI file was given to them and it did not mention Rosellie.

The 1981 FOIA declassified files are over 347 pages with 105 withheld. Peter Lemkin, Jim Marrs and I numbered these early pages of the first releases in Fort Worth Texas about 1989-90 or there abouts. The 1997 declassified FOIA files are over 187 pages with 87 still classified. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee has over 648 pages of Classified Files marked "Top Secret" as of 1991. The Senate Arm Services Committee has over 200 pages classified Top Secret, Committee Sensitive, 1992. This is a total of over 1,469 pages of files scattered all over the place in secret files somewhere in Washington DC., that encompass the years from 1959 through 1992. .....go figure.

FWIW.

Thanks again Tosh

Edited October 2, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Karl Kinaski]

At one point Holt claims ( in his interview days before he died in 1997), that he put some false SS-IDs (fabricated by him and his forgery team for the "event" in Dallas) into a Ford pickup behind the fence.

There was in fact a ford-pickup there in the afternoon of Nov 22. 1963

Edited September 17, 2009 by Karl Kinaski

[Jack White]

At one point Holt claims ( in his interview days before he died in 1997), that he put some false SS-IDs (fabricated by him and his forgery team for the "event" in Dallas) into a Ford pickup behind the fence.

There was in fact a ford-pickup there in the afternoon of Nov 22. 1963

Of course if Holt saw the photo, he could include the pictured Ford in his story.

Researchers would then see the photo and conclude that it verifies his story.

Jack

[William Kelly]

Bill, Question, your interview with Holt was by phone or in person - and if so where. In 1992 I lived in the San Diego area and was actively working with Plumlee and others on the events of 11/22/63. I was aware that Holt lived but 20 minutes drive from me and phoned him. We chatted a few times, but he tried to NOT meet me and succeeded....despite many attempts. I was too close for comfort, either physically or because of someone else I was in contact with made him uncomfortable, would be my guess. Just another in many mysteries of trying to untangle this case....FWIW

Hi Peter,

I was in San Diego, staying with my photographer friend Zavin, who I had met in Australia. I had talked with Chauncey from Houston and made arrangements to interview him when I got to San Diego, traveling by train. Zavin drove southeast of the city, in the hills, in a large, sprawing house that Holt said was once a casino. No one else was around. After the interview, conducted in his living room, he took us to a garage or workroom where his art work was located.

Holt asked me about the bonifides of some other researchers who sought him out, and I gave him my evaluation of those who I knew. Some I didn't. I know a few people who lived in the area who also got to know him - an eye doctor from San Diego who attended COPA conferences in Dallas, and a reporter.

The guys who wrote The Man on the Grassy Knoll had a good relationship with Holt and he gave them a copy of his manuscript - which they let me read when I was visiting with them. Holt's manuscript was about three or four inches thick and was chock full of details, though I've never seen it again. Maybe his daughter has it?

I found him charming and believeable, and possessive of all the attributes that made him a self-acknowledged artist, forger, pilot, marksman, bookie, acountant and confidence man.

BK

Bill, thanks for that. Yes, the eye doctor...I remember communication with him, but can't recall his name. [i was forced out of San Diego in chaos after legal attacks I have always assumed had something to do with my research work]. The reporter, was that one who worked for the Reader there? The manuscript sounds interesting and I hope still exists no matter who/what he was. He talked about his art and past forging of IDs with me on the phone, but wouldn't really answer about being a tramp...only playing word games on that...in fact games on anything involving Dallas - other than his admitting he made some false IDs for that day [and many other days operations]. He told me he was in Lemon Grove, but refused to give his address or meet. He seemed to know all about me before I called. He was charming on the phone also and I remember his voice as I write this. Did he ask you about me when you met him? At that time I was well known to your friend John Judge...and many others. Did he have anything to say about Plumlee?

Bill, don't mean to pester, but had forgotten about this thread and the questions here. Anything to add? I'm sure the reason he refused to meet me was that he was aware I was working with Plumlee at that time...we [Plumlee and I] met regularly. He'd travel from another state, stay at a safe house near my place for some days while we worked on things. At another point he had a job training people to fly not far away, in N. San Diego Co. What a very strange part of my life, looking back now.....

Hi Peter,

No, I don't have anything else to add. I went to Lemon Grove, up on a hill.

Holt asked me about Bob Dorf and a few others, but didn't mention you or Plumlee.

I'd like to get a copy of the manuscript he wrote, but I guess that's been squandered.

Holt was a self-acknowledged con artist, but he was also a really good artist.

BK

[Bernice Moore]

Bill, Question, your interview with Holt was by phone or in person - and if so where. In 1992 I lived in the San Diego area and was actively working with Plumlee and others on the events of 11/22/63. I was aware that Holt lived but 20 minutes drive from me and phoned him. We chatted a few times, but he tried to NOT meet me and succeeded....despite many attempts. I was too close for comfort, either physically or because of someone else I was in contact with made him uncomfortable, would be my guess. Just another in many mysteries of trying to untangle this case....FWIW

Hi Peter,

I was in San Diego, staying with my photographer friend Zavin, who I had met in Australia. I had talked with Chauncey from Houston and made arrangements to interview him when I got to San Diego, traveling by train. Zavin drove southeast of the city, in the hills, in a large, sprawing house that Holt said was once a casino. No one else was around. After the interview, conducted in his living room, he took us to a garage or workroom where his art work was located.

Holt asked me about the bonifides of some other researchers who sought him out, and I gave him my evaluation of those who I knew. Some I didn't. I know a few people who lived in the area who also got to know him - an eye doctor from San Diego who attended COPA conferences in Dallas, and a reporter.

The guys who wrote The Man on the Grassy Knoll had a good relationship with Holt and he gave them a copy of his manuscript - which they let me read when I was visiting with them. Holt's manuscript was about three or four inches thick and was chock full of details, though I've never seen it again. Maybe his daughter has it?

I found him charming and believeable, and possessive of all the attributes that made him a self-acknowledged artist, forger, pilot, marksman, bookie, acountant and confidence man.

BK

Bill, thanks for that. Yes, the eye doctor...I remember communication with him, but can't recall his name. [i was forced out of San Diego in chaos after legal attacks I have always assumed had something to do with my research work]. The reporter, was that one who worked for the Reader there? The manuscript sounds interesting and I hope still exists no matter who/what he was. He talked about his art and past forging of IDs with me on the phone, but wouldn't really answer about being a tramp...only playing word games on that...in fact games on anything involving Dallas - other than his admitting he made some false IDs for that day [and many other days operations]. He told me he was in Lemon Grove, but refused to give his address or meet. He seemed to know all about me before I called. He was charming on the phone also and I remember his voice as I write this. Did he ask you about me when you met him? At that time I was well known to your friend John Judge...and many others. Did he have anything to say about Plumlee?

Bill, don't mean to pester, but had forgotten about this thread and the questions here. Anything to add? I'm sure the reason he refused to meet me was that he was aware I was working with Plumlee at that time...we [Plumlee and I] met regularly. He'd travel from another state, stay at a safe house near my place for some days while we worked on things. At another point he had a job training people to fly not far away, in N. San Diego Co. What a very strange part of my life, looking back now.....

Hi Peter,

No, I don't have anything else to add. I went to Lemon Grove, up on a hill.

Holt asked me about Bob Dorf and a few others, but didn't mention you or Plumlee.

I'd like to get a copy of the manuscript he wrote, but I guess that's been squandered.

Holt was a self-acknowledged con artist, but he was also a really good artist.

BK

yes he was a very good artist here is a self portrait....................B